Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[green glory]

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FTTT released? Lot of twitter chat. Anyone know?

Who you getting it from on Twitter so I can follow follow lol?

[Ozyhibby]

@THE_TBK: FTT(T) arrived!!!!! Account going back into 'lockdown'. May post up some redacted elements!!

#ProperGander

[s.a.m]

Ewan Murray‏@mrewanmurray Green adds: "Why wouldn't Barcelona want to play Rangers home and away as opposed to playing Getafe. They would sell (those) games out."

Tom English‏@TomEnglishSport
Charles Green says Barcelona and Real Madrid would love to have Rangers in La Liga. He must be having one hell of a boozy lunch.

15mTom English‏@TomEnglishSport
Charles Green tells Associated Press that Manchester United "not hostile" to Rangers joining Premiership. Response from Utd: "We're hostile"

[PatHead]

Excellent interview (imaginary or otherwise) in Scotland on Sunday questioning Mr Green's integrity

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...fing-1-2643329

[Keith_M]

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Excellent interview (imaginary or otherwise) in Scotland on Sunday questioning Mr Green's integrity

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...fing-1-2643329

That's a fantastic article, though very well hidden on their website.

If you were a suspicous type, you might even imagine that they didn't actually want people to read it

[lapsedhibee]

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Excellent interview (imaginary or otherwise) in Scotland on Sunday questioning Mr Green's integrity

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...fing-1-2643329

And another in The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...d-8326419.html

"his sales pitch for the shadow club's forthcoming share issue sounded as if it had been conceived during a particularly hectic happy hour on Sauchiehall Street"

[Part/Time Supporter]

May be interesting to note that yet another Rangers newco was set up on Friday.

"Rangers Football plc" (registered office: Ibrox Stadium)

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/dc...d0/compdetails

The only directors are FFW Secretaries Ltd and Edward Laurence Lumb (who is a solicitor with FFW).

[jonty]

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May be interesting to note that yet another Rangers newco was set up on Friday.

"Rangers Football plc" (registered office: Ibrox Stadium)

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/dc...d0/compdetails

The only directors are FFW Secretaries Ltd and Edward Laurence Lumb (who is a solicitor with FFW).

hmmm - Edward Laurence 'Succulent' Lumb

[Hibrandenburg]

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On STV news just now that Green intends to impose a stringent wage cap at Rangers so that Rangers wages will never be more than 33% of their turnover.

Much lower than current SPL clubs which is around 61% (apart from Hearts that is who are around 120%).

This would obviously mean little or no chance of glamour signings in the future.

He has said that the players and staff can forget about "crazy" wages in the future.

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About the first thing he's said that I agree with.

Reading between the lines it means they'll be stealing more of our team in the future.

[Spike Mandela]

FTT result in, Rangers win of sorts. Not due tax but former directors, players etc liable as EBTs considered a loan. Oh dear.

Surely this opens a whole new can of worms. Could loans be called in by liquidators?

[CropleyWasGod]

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FTT result in, Rangers win of sorts. Not due tax but former directors, players etc liable as EBTs considered a loan. Oh dear.

Result is here....

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...51/TC02372.pdf

I'll be a while

[Peevemor]

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Result is here....

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...51/TC02372.pdf

I'll be a while

It reads like the script of Reservoir Dogs.

[HoboHarry]

Reading that would give an Aspirin a headache. I gave up...

[The Green Goblin]

First sentence reads: "We have been unable to reach a unanimous view".

[CropleyWasGod]

It's bloody hard going.

At first sight, this is the most significant paragraph:-

Accordingly, the assessments made fall to be reduced substantially. It was
conceded that advances in favour of certain players are taxable and liable to NIC, and
35 we have found that in certain other limited instances, there may be a similar liability.
To that extent the assessments should stand. In these circumstances we expect that it
is sufficient that we allow the Appeal in principle

That suggests that some of the payments from the EBT are indeed taxable. Given the curious way of naming the witnesses, one can't tell who got what, and what is taxable. That may be significant when the SPL make their decision.

For the most part, though, it looks as if the payments have been treated as loans. That means they are recoverable. I am not sure, though, whether that is recoverable by the Trust(s), or by the company. If the latter, that will have a positive effect on the dividend to creditors.

However, the recovery of the loans is not straightforward, IMO. Given that we are talking about some foreign-based players, as well as events that happened some years ago, there will be resistance. Expect long Court cases.

[green glory]

From what I've read it summarises as club in the clear, individuals liable and possibly to be pursued. So it's still guilty, as the tax should have been paid, albeit the individuals responsibility to repay the loan or pay the tax.

For the period it was used an unfair advantage was still gained through it's use though.

[TheEastTerrace]

Blow me, if I was Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster, I'd be running for the hills.

[Stevie Reid]

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Result is here....

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...51/TC02372.pdf

I'll be a while

Can we speculate on what may happen with regards to the Hearts case based on this verdict? I appreciate that Hearts didn't use EBTs.

[CropleyWasGod]

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From what I've read it summarises as club in the clear, individuals liable and possibly to be pursued. So it's still guilty, as the tax should have been paid, albeit the individuals responsibility to repay the loan or pay the tax.

For the period it was used an unfair advantage was still gained through it's use though.

Not how I read it, GG. It does say that the assessments have to be reduced substantially... not removed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Can we speculate on what may happen with regards to the Hearts case based on this verdict? I appreciate that Hearts didn't use EBTs.

Naw

[CropleyWasGod]

HMRC on Rangers tax case

"We are disappointed that we have lost this stage of the court process and we are considering an appeal."

Good-oh.

[Stevie Reid]

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Naw

[Stevie Reid]

Does this mean that they can't be considered to have used dual contracts by the SPL?

[TheEastTerrace]

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Does this mean that they can't be considered to have used dual contracts by the SPL?

That's my question - even though the EBTs were loans and not payments, did Rangers still use dual contracts and therefore illegally register players or does this even matter any more?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does this mean that they can't be considered to have used dual contracts by the SPL?

That's not clear.

The Tribunal say that there are some payments that are liable to PAYE & NI. Unfortunately, though, it's not clear who received those payments.

That will have to be clarified before the SPL can go any further.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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On STV news just now that Green intends to impose a stringent wage cap at Rangers so that Rangers wages will never be more than 33% of their turnover.

Much lower than current SPL clubs which is around 61% (apart from Hearts that is who are around 120%).

This would obviously mean little or no chance of glamour signings in the future.

He has said that the players and staff can forget about "crazy" wages in the future.

charles greene kills me he really does, the boy that just couldn't stop lying, comical charlie

[Part/Time Supporter]

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It's bloody hard going.

At first sight, this is the most significant paragraph:-

Accordingly, the assessments made fall to be reduced substantially. It was
conceded that advances in favour of certain players are taxable and liable to NIC, and
35 we have found that in certain other limited instances, there may be a similar liability.
To that extent the assessments should stand. In these circumstances we expect that it
is sufficient that we allow the Appeal in principle

That suggests that some of the payments from the EBT are indeed taxable. Given the curious way of naming the witnesses, one can't tell who got what, and what is taxable. That may be significant when the SPL make their decision.

For the most part, though, it looks as if the payments have been treated as loans. That means they are recoverable. I am not sure, though, whether that is recoverable by the Trust(s), or by the company. If the latter, that will have a positive effect on the dividend to creditors.

However, the recovery of the loans is not straightforward, IMO. Given that we are talking about some foreign-based players, as well as events that happened some years ago, there will be resistance. Expect long Court cases.

Good luck getting Billy Dodds to pay up.

[euansdad]

Glamour signings in Scottish division three was never feasible any way!

[LeighLoyal]

Edited: due to reading more. Titles still to be stripped fae oldco.

[PatHead]

Suppose the good thing is that no-one would touch Rangers whilst the Big Tax Case was outstanding. There is every likelihood that they could have been saved rather than sold to Whytie. Shame eh!