Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[greenginger]

HMRC are just acting like any respectable loan shark. Take anything and everything they can get off their " client " with a warning they will be back for the rest and they had better pay or it's a kneecapping !

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not a financial expert but I assume that as Hearts have been able to show that they will be able to pay this bill (at least) then HMRC will be happy to take the money without regard for what may happen in the near future. It's only when the payments aren't made they'll get pissy with them again.

As I understand (though I'm happy to be corrected) HMRC will get brussell sprout in the event of liquidation as it will all go to Romanov so taking the money today (figuratively) is better than not taking it all, but should they fail to pay in future I'm sure HMRC will issue another WUP and as it looks like they are paying yesterdays bills with tomorrows money it will come to a sticky end sometime soon enough

That's the way I see it - not only am I a football fan but a tax payer. Hearts are (apparently) paying what they are due in tax - so fair play. I just hope they pay all the other companies they owe money too as well.

If they then run their club into the ground paying ridiculous wages then its entirely up to them. But I think we are in for a very interesting new year as far as Hearts are concerned.

[Jim44]

Has the SPL or the PFA commented on the players' consenting to defer or reduce their wages this month? Presumably they can make this gesture 'for the good of their employers' but are they in breach of the rules and still liable for further sanctions?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Has the SPL or the PFA commented on the players' consenting to defer or reduce their wages this month? Presumably they can make this gesture 'for the good of their employers' but are they in breach of the rules and still liable for further sanctions?

As said on previous occasions Jim they seem to get away with anything they want, must be a big club thing but yes the silence from the SFA is deafening, I really hope they get them by the scruff of the neck and boot them out of the league ASAP, they deserve it for serial cheating.

[Keith_M]

Let's think about this logically. They've been given a stay of execution because they've managed to put together HALF of what they owe to the tax man in historic debt. They've done this by the equivelant of handing over all future income up to Christmas (ticket sales for all home matches gone) and begging to the fans to give generously. They have the share of income from one SC game against Hibs, minus the money for the 3,900 tickets they already have, which does not leave an awful lot

Result: No more income due for November/December. Players wages + PAYE + NI still to pay for November and December. HALF of the 450,000 still due to pay on 3rd Dec. All normal running costs of the club and stadium plus costs of hosting the home games for which they've already taken the money

To pay all that with very little due to come in over the next 7 weeks, they'll need yet another Share Issue plus the fans to yet again put their hands in their pockets for donations, auctions etc. Some how, I just can't see how they can possibly bring in anything approaching the outgoings.

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Things we know now we didn't know last week:

1. Vlad isn't going to bail them out.
2. They couldn't raise 450K to save their club (and diminishing returns says ... )
3. Vlad isn't going to write off all the debt.
4. The "consortium" consists of a few guys who want Vlad to give them the club including the ground, write off all the debt and agree to cover any liability from existing tax cases.

The annoying thing is we have to play them in the cup while they've still got a squad costing twice as much as ours and will have a siege mentality.

5. They have have not managed to sell out their next game after a week of begging so the majority of supporters can't be that bothered .
6. Vlad's empire is crumbling at a rate of knots with his Banks share price tanking
7. Vlad couldn't be bothered appearing to rally the troops
8 They had a faded Callum Elliot top on display!

Wonder if they had drawn someone like Stenhousemuir away in the cup if HMRC would have allowed them to stay open as one of the major sources of income would not be there.

Seriously though

[bathhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Let's think about this logically. They've been given a stay of execution because they've managed to put together HALF of what they owe to the tax man in historic debt. They've done this by the equivelant of handing over all future income up to Christmas (ticket sales for all home matches gone) and begging to the fans to give generously. They have the share of income from one SC game against Hibs, minus the money for the 3,900 tickets they already have, which does not leave an awful lot

Now, let's think about this. No more income due for November/December. Players wages + PAYE + NI still to pay for November and December. HALF of the 450,000 still due to pay on 3rd Dec. All normal running costs of the club and stadium plus costs of hosting the home games for which they've already taken the money

To pay all that with very little due to come in over the next 7 weeks, they'll need yet another Share Issue plus the fans to yet again put their hands in their pockets for donations, auctions etc. Some how, I just can't see how they can possibly bring in anything approaching the outgoings.

Excellent point - its only a matter of time

[Hibercelona]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Let's think about this logically. They've been given a stay of execution because they've managed to put together HALF of what they owe to the tax man in historic debt. They've done this by the equivelant of handing over all future income up to Christmas (ticket sales for all home matches gone) and begging to the fans to give generously. They have the share of income from one SC game against Hibs, minus the money for the 3,900 tickets they already have, which does not leave an awful lot

Now, let's think about this. No more income due for November/December. Players wages + PAYE + NI still to pay for November and December. HALF of the 450,000 still due to pay on 3rd Dec. All normal running costs of the club and stadium plus costs of hosting the home games for which they've already taken the money

To pay all that with very little due to come in over the next 7 weeks, they'll need yet another Share Issue plus the fans to yet again put their hands in their pockets for donations, auctions etc. Some how, I just can't see how they can possibly bring in anything approaching the outgoings.

Exactly. It's ridiculous to allow this madness to continue.

How do the SFA honestly expect Hearts to get through the next several weeks? Unless of course they're giving them some hidden source of funding, which is why they're keeping so quiet about the issue.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point.

[Jim44]

There has been clear political intervention to allow the Jambos to wriggle off the hook. Salmond has made reference to the Scottish Government's involvement and there are reports about MP Ian Murray having talks with David Gauke, the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury and senior officials at HMRC. Foulkes has also loudly publicised this political conivance:

@GeorgeFoulkes: Thanks to Ian Murray MP for speaking with Treasury Ministers and HMRC to get a deal to enable the Hearts debt to be paid in stages

Do UEFA and FIFA not have rules about politics and football? I wonder if they will turn a blind eye on this occasion?

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There has been clear political intervention to allow the Jambos to wriggle off the hook. Salmond has made reference to the Scottish Government's involvement and there are reports about MP Ian Murray having talks with David Gauke, the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury and senior officials at HMRC. Foulkes has also loudly publicised this political conivance:

@GeorgeFoulkes: Thanks to Ian Murray MP for speaking with Treasury Ministers and HMRC to get a deal to enable the Hearts debt to be paid in stages

Do UEFA and FIFA not have rules about politics and football? I wonder if they will turn a blind eye on this occasion?

Putting aside the rivalry though Jim, is it not in the interests of the Scottish tax payer that Hearts pay their tax ? I'm happy that all the money they are raising is going directly into the public purse for the greater good - it's not going into Hearts FC.

I'll reiterate, I hope the politicians and journalists are equally zealous in making sure Heart of Midlothian pay all their other outstanding bills to companies and other public bodies - they are after all owned by a very rich man we're constantly reminded - so face up to your financial responsibilities and pay your dues and pay them on time.

I'm of the understanding they are behind in a great many payments to people - so get them paid - if not they have already gained unfair sporting advantage and that needs highlighted.

[alexedwards]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They still need to find a large amount of money to keep themselves operating and I imagine the plan is to make it till January so they can sell some players - the problem is they haven't got many decent players to sell and now everyone know's how poor they are so you can imagine the bids for players in January being very low.

The share issue is still a load of nonsense as long as Vlad is the majority shareholder - he is taking them for a serious ride and trying to get some of his lost money back.

The next few months and how the yams are going to be looking as a team in 2013 is going to be very interesting to see.

It's not so much selling their big players as getting them off the wage bill - if they manage to move the big salary players and lower wage bill/tax they should be home and dry. Peanuts will suffice in relation to transfer fees as they will be free from paying salaries. All they need do is survive to Jan as much as that irks everybody.

[ScottB]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There has been clear political intervention to allow the Jambos to wriggle off the hook. Salmond has made reference to the Scottish Government's involvement and there are reports about MP Ian Murray having talks with David Gauke, the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury and senior officials at HMRC. Foulkes has also loudly publicised this political conivance:

@GeorgeFoulkes: Thanks to Ian Murray MP for speaking with Treasury Ministers and HMRC to get a deal to enable the Hearts debt to be paid in stages

Do UEFA and FIFA not have rules about politics and football? I wonder if they will turn a blind eye on this occasion?

In all seriousness, what has happened is by far the best deal for the tax payer. Hearts haven't 'gotten away' with anything, they've been given what seems like an extra 2 weeks to cough up.

At the least the taxman now has at least £200k out of them, money that he / we would never have gotten had the club been liquidated, it'd have went straight to Vlad's back pocket.

It's HMRC's duty to protect the interests of the taxpayer, Hearts clearly have at least some money there, so they've done the right thing and grabbed it. That's the difference with the Rangers situation, there was no hope of getting any serious percentage of what was owed. I doubt any politicians did anything really, some no mark Labour chump claiming credit for it aside, if Hearts hadn't raised this cash they'd be staring into the abyss, and if they fail to meet the instalment due at the start of December that's where they will end up.

[Scònaldò]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do UEFA and FIFA not have rules about politics and football? I wonder if they will turn a blind eye on this occasion?

They do, there was this blog written during the whole rangers saga.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/political-interference-scottish-football/1134

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not so much selling their big players as getting them off the wage bill - if they manage to move the
big salary players and lower wage bill/tax they should be home and dry. Peanuts will suffice in relation
to transfer fees as they will be free from paying salaries. All they need do is survive to Jan as much as
that irks everybody.

You are making a huge assumption that the players on big salaries will move - they may sit tight, take the money, and wait til summer. We will see just how loyal certain players are during the window. Look at David Obua for example - they were champing to get him off the wage bill but he dug his heels in.

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not so much selling their big players as getting them off the wage bill - if they manage to move the
big salary players and lower wage bill/tax they should be home and dry. Peanuts will suffice in relation
to transfer fees as they will be free from paying salaries. All they need do is survive to Jan as much as
that irks everybody.

Doesn't irk me at all.

Contrary to popular opinion, it's exactly what I want. Hearts scrimp and save till January, lose any remaining high earners, finish at or near the bottom of the league (pumped out of the SC by Hibs, and beaten by us twice in league games). Start next season with bargain basement players, saddled with debt and no hope in hell of ever paying for a new Main stand.

What's not to like?

[Part/Time Supporter]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Doesn't irk me at all.

Contrary to popular opinion, it's exactly what I want. Hearts scrimp and save till January, lose any remaining high earners, finish at or near the bottom of the league (pumped out of the SC by Hibs, and beaten by us twice in league games). Start next season with bargain basement players, saddled with debt and no hope in hell of ever paying for a new Main stand.

What's not to like?

Best of both worlds, Hearts alive but crippled. Hibs still get the additional income from derbies (compared to Falkirk, Partick or whoever) but gain the satisfaction of winning them more often.

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Doesn't irk me at all.

Contrary to popular opinion, it's exactly what I want. Hearts scrimp and save till January, lose any remaining high earners, finish at or near the bottom of the league (pumped out of the SC by Hibs, and beaten by us twice in league games). Start next season with bargain basement players, saddled with debt and no hope in hell of ever paying for a new Main stand.

What's not to like?

Sounds good to me. A golden age of derbies beckons methinks. Looking forward to the ****bo end regularly emptying by the 60th minute as we pump goal after goal past them.

Just a punchbag for Hibs in the future. Licking my lips thinking about it.

[Moulin Yarns]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Anyone seen Peevemor this morning?

I hear he's bringing 24 workmates to Scotland. Coincidence????

[hibsmad]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sounds good to me. A golden age of derbies beckons methinks. Looking forward to the ****bo end regularly emptying by the 60th minute as we pump goal after goal past them.

Just a punchbag for Hibs in the future. Licking my lips thinking about it.

I like the way you put that!

Also, in my opinion it's no more than they or we deserve.

[Hibercelona]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sounds good to me. A golden age of derbies beckons methinks. Looking forward to the ****bo end regularly emptying by the 60th minute as we pump goal after goal past them.

Just a punchbag for Hibs in the future. Licking my lips thinking about it.

It will take far more than financial superiority over them to get the better of them.

If we honestly believe that derbies are just going to be a walk in the park from now on, then we're sadly mistaken.

[YehButNoBut]

From STV site, the interesting part is - A spokesman for the league said: “The wage deferral at Hearts is a contract amendment and therefore does not commit a remuneration default.” - which means no sanctions will be applied this month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...ovember-wages/

The majority of Hearts first team stars agreed to defer their November wages to help out the club.

Hearts announced on Tuesday night that wages for the month had been agreed to be deferred as the Edinburgh side battles to pay a tax bill of £450,000.

The club has confirmed that the majority of the top team players at Tynecastle have agreed to this deferral, including the senior players.

However it is not clear when the pay will now arrive, or what the details of the deal struck with the players are.

A spokesman for Hearts said: “The majority of the first team, including senior players, agreed to the wage deferral.
“Details of the deferrals remain confidential.”

The voluntary wait to receive their November money does not invoke the same sanctions from the Scottish Premier League as a late wage payment.

Hearts are under a registration embargo until December after paying their staff late twice this season, but the new deferral announced this week will not constitute a “remuneration default” in the eyes of the SPL.

A spokesman for the league said: “The wage deferral at Hearts is a contract amendment and therefore does not commit a remuneration default.”

[Stevie Reid]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From STV site, the interesting part is - A spokesman for the league said: “The wage deferral at Hearts is a contract amendment and therefore does not commit a remuneration default.” - which means no sanctions will be applied this month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...ovember-wages/

The majority of Hearts first team stars agreed to defer their November wages to help out the club.

Hearts announced on Tuesday night that wages for the month had been agreed to be deferred as the Edinburgh side battles to pay a tax bill of £450,000.

The club has confirmed that the majority of the top team players at Tynecastle have agreed to this deferral, including the senior players.

However it is not clear when the pay will now arrive, or what the details of the deal struck with the players are.

A spokesman for Hearts said: “The majority of the first team, including senior players, agreed to the wage deferral.
“Details of the deferrals remain confidential.”

The voluntary wait to receive their November money does not invoke the same sanctions from the Scottish Premier League as a late wage payment.

Hearts are under a registration embargo until December after paying their staff late twice this season, but the new deferral announced this week will not constitute a “remuneration default” in the eyes of the SPL.

A spokesman for the league said: “The wage deferral at Hearts is a contract amendment and therefore does not commit a remuneration default.”

Just yet more cheating, pure and simple.

[Just_Jimmy]

So lets get this straight?

They are not going to pay players. Again but theyll be allowed to play them.

They will sell said players in january making, albeit a limited amount, from players they havent paid in months.

Thats like me selling my brothers car because i drive it sometimes and keeping the cash!

The whole thing is corrupt as **** and the authorities of our game just let it go.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So lets get this straight?

They are not going to pay players. Again but theyll be allowed to play them.

They will sell said players in january making, albeit a limited amount, from players they havent paid in months.

Thats like me selling my brothers car because i drive it sometimes and keeping the cash!

The whole thing is corrupt as **** and the authorities of our game just let it go.

People forget that they still have to pay the players.

This is all just delaying the inevitable.

[Hibercelona]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So lets get this straight?

They are not going to pay players. Again but theyll be allowed to play them.

They will sell said players in january making, albeit a limited amount, from players they havent paid in months.

Thats like me selling my brothers car because i drive it sometimes and keeping the cash!

The whole thing is corrupt as **** and the authorities of our game just let it go.

If the situation was reversed an we were in their position, would we get away with it?

Would we ****!

[s.a.m]

This 'contract amendment' business just opens a new loophole for clubs to avoid paying their players on time.

[#FromTheCapital]

Seen a preview of front page of Evening News tonight, some daft slag worth 40m has joined the consortium apparently.

[Steve20]

Simply, they shouldn't be allowed to play any players they can't afford to pay.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They are like a dying old limping dog.
They need put down.
Struggling on is just delaying the inevitable.

I am glad I do not pay into the UK tax system. For a company like Hearts and their regular late payments, including some late payments on installments agreed... to then get another extension, on a figure we all keep hearing "isn't that significant"...... is truely astonishing.

Pathetic the whole thing,
and what about our dear SFA/SPL leaders, they will just keep allowing them to keep playing these players that they can't afford... and extend the embargo as maximum penalty.

ah,but Craig, you'd be harming a whole "community" if you put them down. Don't you know they're the "very fabric" of the Dalry/Gorgie?!!
Starting to think this Establishment outfit are becoming untouchable.....they've even got the Scottish Government on their side.
poor, smaller firms aren't afforded such repayment plans by the Taxman. why is this then?

[Emerald]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This 'contract amendment' business just opens a new loophole for clubs to avoid paying their players on time.

Agree, the players have no choice. No pay this month and tell everyone it has been agreed or loose your job at Christmas. The bottom line is Hearts can't afford these players but will use them anyway to cheat against every team they come up against. I hope St Mirren put in an official complaint if any of these players take the field against them. The sanctions have been loopholed, cheating wins again.