Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Kato]

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Thanks. Do you think HMRC would have got to the point of a winding up order if the liability was only incurred in the last quarter?

Given their previous instances of late payment and generally tardy attitude, probably.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks. Do you think HMRC would have got to the point of a winding up order if the liability was only incurred in the last quarter?

If it's PAYE for the last quarter, given their recent record, yes. If it's VAT, unlikely.

However, I think that's it more likely that a payment plan that had previously been agreed has been breached.

[Glory Lurker]

Thanks, Kato, CWG.

[Bostonhibby]

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Have they not got a multi award winning pop star as fan? What was his name?.... Cicero?

Could he not organise a Live Aid event for them?

Get a new version of "Feed The Jambos" out in time for Christmas?

That's bound to rake in £10 to £20 at the very least....

Could wee Ronnie Corbett no dae a wee turn for them? how about a Two Ronnies event but since the real funny talented one Ronnie Barker is sadly dead he could get Fatty Fowkes to play that role?

The two Phannies

[green glory]

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Could wee Ronnie Corbett no dae a wee turn for them? how about a Two Ronnies event but since the real funny talented one Ronnie Barker is sadly dead he could get Fatty Fowkes to play that role?

The two Phannies

Or the Two Pishes.

[mrdependable]

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It's so obvious UBIG doesn't have a pot to p!3s in at the moment.

Hearts wages not getting paid, plus the unpaid PAYE/VAT bill. There's now the unpaid wages at the basketball team and the Birac aluminium works for the past three months.

I said a few years ago Vlad reminded me of Robert Maxwell in his business operations. It appears to me that he's been moving money around his 'empire' when it's needed, but now the cash has dried up. He's not got any cash coming in from anywhere at the moment, hence the running costs not being met. If it is the end game for UBIG I don't think I would be bothering too much about a far flung football team at the other side of Europe.

this is the gist of the situation isnt it, it seems to me? i get the impression that Vlads whole operation is going down the tubes and hes desperately moving money around to cover the last tax bill/wages etc. in a forlorn attempt to stay afloat?

[Spike Mandela]

Jambo Ewan Murray hurting..........

“@mrewanmurray: Any 'supporter' who wishes another club shuts down should be embarrassed. Guys like the Dundee fans show how uplifting football should be.”

The response he go from a sympathetic soul, ha ha................



“@GRSmith82: @mrewanmurray I wouldn't *lose 1 min of sleep if Hearts were obliterated. **** them. I hope its a slow and very painfully extinction.”

[ScottB]

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Jambo Ewan Murray hurting..........

“@mrewanmurray: Any 'supporter' who wishes another club shuts down should be embarrassed. Guys like the Dundee fans show how uplifting football should be.”

The response he go from a sympathetic soul, ha ha................



“@GRSmith82: @mrewanmurray I wouldn't *lose 1 min of sleep if Hearts were obliterated. **** them. I hope its a slow and very painfully extinction.”

I must have missed all the sympathy the Hearts fans were showing for Rangers when their club collapsed...

[YehButNoBut]

Irvine Welsh‏@WelshIrvine
Great to see that Hearts have a ticket office in Chicago

[WestEndHibee]

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Irvine Welsh‏@WelshIrvine
Great to see that Hearts have a ticket office in Chicago

[PatHead]

Excellent article in today's Herald

Whichever direction the club takes in the coming days, they will find the Russian-born businessman in the midst of the consequences. He is the owner, but also the major creditor, and so the authorities, with whatever legal powers they can wield, remain in a stand-off with Romanov, with Hearts caught in the middle.

This will have influenced HMRC's decision last week to petition the court to issue a winding-up order. The taxman is seeking to liquidate Hearts rather than put the business into administration, but there have been at least five occasions in recent years when Hearts have been late in paying tax bills. Many of them have been higher than the £450,000 currently owed, yet HMRC will have taken a strategic decision.What is the future for Hearts? There isn't one unless the club restores the balance between its costs and its revenue. The wage bill remains too high – three times already this season some staff have not been paid on time – and HMRC may have grown tired of the cycle of confrontations. They are thought to have considered trying to force Hearts into administration last season, but by seeking liquidation, they will either force Romanov's hand, bring other potential owners to the fore, or ensure that the initiative to raise money from the supporters generates enough cash. Either way, as was the case with Rangers, HMRC are ensuring they receive as much of the money that is owed to them as possible."The administration of Rangers cost around £5 million and didn't seem to add much value to creditors," said Neil Patey, a partner with accountants Ernst & Young. "A liquidation should be cheaper. A liquidator also has greater investigative and recovery powers than an administrator and so HMRC may want to get on with that now and get greater control, rather than have a costly, less controlled process first."Yet Romanov can intervene. If he paid the outstanding tax bill himself, he could then take control of the club's fate by voluntarily putting it into administration. As the major creditor, with around 75% of the club's debt, and holder of the floating charge of the club's assets, he is first in line to benefit from payments to creditors, but is also in a position to allow or deny a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) to bring Hearts back out of administration.Romanov could even end up still owning the club, if he makes an offer to the administrators that represents better value to all of the creditors than splitting up the business and selling the assets individually.

He would then have a debt-free club, albeit one fighting to survive relegation after a points deduction. Romanov is currently owed in the region of £22m, but it is unlikely he would ever realistically recoup that figure since Tynecastle – the major property asset – was last valued at around £13m and wouldn't generate much more while the property market is depressed.Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas said of Romanov: "He still continues to support and provide. He provides guarantees for us and without him we wouldn't even have been able to start the season. In previous years, we spent a lot of money on players and this money came from Mr Romanov."The strategy was to invest in the squad and make it the strongest in Scotland. We were really close to that. We are in a position where around £20m of debt has been taken away from the balance sheet of the club by Mr Romanov. What he said is, 'I've not been able to achieve what I was aiming at, so I will not be investing more'."If Romanov cannot or will not intervene, Hearts' only hope lies in the generosity and commitment of the club's fans. Any money raised now is essentially being donated to keep the club alive. If Romanov was to then put Hearts into administration, he would receive the vast majority of any further cash raised for creditors. If he keeps the club going, while reducing costs, Hearts fans are entitled to wonder if stricter financial and corporate governance rules will be put in place to prevent this from happening again.In truth, though, they will act simply to stop the club from disappearing. Yet the problems Romanov inherited continue to restrict Hearts, since the stadium needs upgrading, but there is no financially viable way to fund it and selling the ground would mean having to build another stadium elsewhere."The only way forward is to progress with our plans for the share issue," Fedotovas said. "This club has the muscle to resolve this situation. We have seen a good response from the fans and I am still hopeful we can have dialogue with people at HMRC who will reassess the situation. By putting the club against the wall, people at HMRC either lack understanding or this is on purpose. If they don't liquidate this club they'll get £450,000 and then more in monthly payments for many years to come. So where is the logic?"Unlike Rangers' situation, where HMRC were one of the two major creditors and so had a controlling vote on the outcome of administration, the taxman has to take his chances with proceedings. Romanov is prepared to talk to potential buyers, but Hearts are in a dangerous state of limbo.

This will have influenced HMRC's decision last week to petition the court to issue a winding-up order. The taxman is seeking to liquidate Hearts rather than put the business into administration, but there have been at least five occasions in recent years when Hearts have been late in paying tax bills. Many of them have been higher than the £450,000 currently owed, yet HMRC will have taken a strategic decision.

What is the future for Hearts? There isn't one unless the club restores the balance between its costs and its revenue. The wage bill remains too high – three times already this season some staff have not been paid on time – and HMRC may have grown tired of the cycle of confrontations. They are thought to have considered trying to force Hearts into administration last season, but by seeking liquidation, they will either force Romanov's hand, bring other potential owners to the fore, or ensure that the initiative to raise money from the supporters generates enough cash. Either way, as was the case with Rangers, HMRC are ensuring they receive as much of the money that is owed to them as possible.

"The administration of Rangers cost around £5 million and didn't seem to add much value to creditors," said Neil Patey, a partner with accountants Ernst & Young. "A liquidation should be cheaper. A liquidator also has greater investigative and recovery powers than an administrator and so HMRC may want to get on with that now and get greater control, rather than have a costly, less controlled process first."

Yet Romanov can intervene. If he paid the outstanding tax bill himself, he could then take control of the club's fate by voluntarily putting it into administration. As the major creditor, with around 75% of the club's debt, and holder of the floating charge of the club's assets, he is first in line to benefit from payments to creditors, but is also in a position to allow or deny a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) to bring Hearts back out of administration.

Romanov could even end up still owning the club, if he makes an offer to the administrators that represents better value to all of the creditors than splitting up the business and selling the assets individually. He would then have a debt-free club, albeit one fighting to survive relegation after a points deduction. Romanov is currently owed in the region of £22m, but it is unlikely he would ever realistically recoup that figure since Tynecastle – the major property asset – was last valued at around £13m and wouldn't generate much more while the property market is depressed.

Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas said of Romanov: "He still continues to support and provide. He provides guarantees for us and without him we wouldn't even have been able to start the season. In previous years, we spent a lot of money on players and this money came from Mr Romanov.
"The strategy was to invest in the squad and make it the strongest in Scotland. We were really close to that. We are in a position where around £20m of debt has been taken away from the balance sheet of the club by Mr Romanov. What he said is, 'I've not been able to achieve what I was aiming at, so I will not be investing more'."
If Romanov cannot or will not intervene, Hearts' only hope lies in the generosity and commitment of the club's fans. Any money raised now is essentially being donated to keep the club alive. If Romanov was to then put Hearts into administration, he would receive the vast majority of any further cash raised for creditors. If he keeps the club going, while reducing costs, Hearts fans are entitled to wonder if stricter financial and corporate governance rules will be put in place to prevent this from happening again.
In truth, though, they will act simply to stop the club from disappearing. Yet the problems Romanov inherited continue to restrict Hearts, since the stadium needs upgrading, but there is no financially viable way to fund it and selling the ground would mean having to build another stadium elsewhere.

"The only way forward is to progress with our plans for the share issue," Fedotovas said. "This club has the muscle to resolve this situation. We have seen a good response from the fans and I am still hopeful we can have dialogue with people at HMRC who will reassess the situation. By putting the club against the wall, people at HMRC either lack understanding or this is on purpose. If they don't liquidate this club they'll get £450,000 and then more in monthly payments for many years to come. So where is the logic?"
Unlike Rangers' situation, where HMRC were one of the two major creditors and so had a controlling vote on the outcome of administration, the taxman has to take his chances with proceedings. Romanov is prepared to talk to potential buyers, but Hearts are in a dangerous state of limbo.

[KinchHibee]

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Irvine Welsh‏@WelshIrvine
Great to see that Hearts have a ticket office in Chicago

Off topic but the Jim Jefferies in reference in the sign is a great stand up comic.

I'd post a link but he's probably not considered family friendly

[IberianHibernian]

Similar situation in Spain to Hearts this now . Real Oviedo a well-established club ( 86 years old ) but down in 3rd tier ( 2nd B division ) need nearly 2 million euros before 17th November to survive . Shares put on sale a week ago and already half amount needed raised including people buying from abroad ( shares available for 11 euros ) . Very well - supported club ( more than 20000 at match against Real Madrid`s 3rd team today and 5000 at a march through town before ) and lots of support from ex players ( Cazorla etc ) and well -known fans of club .

[KdyHby]

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Similar situation in Spain to Hearts this now . Real Oviedo a well-established club ( 86 years old ) but down in 3rd tier ( 2nd B division ) need nearly 2 million euros before 17th November to survive . Shares put on sale a week ago and already half amount needed raised including people buying from abroad ( shares available for 11 euros ) . Very well - supported club ( more than 20000 at match against Real Madrid`s 3rd team today and 5000 at a march through town before ) and lots of support from ex players ( Cazorla etc ) and well -known fans of club .

http://www.realoviedo.es/weboficial/...IdNoticia=7956

[PatHead]

At 01.39 this morning JKB had raised £11,432.79, by this evening they had raised a fantastic £12,079.12, another £646.33. Looks like their sisters have found out they are stealing the kid's Christmas money. They will never raise enough at this rate. They are doomed I tell you, doomed.

By the way, I have never used Paypal but do they charge for transferring money? If so, could donations be made that would lose Hearts money?

[cheltenhamhibee]

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At 01.39 this morning JKB had raised £11,432.79, by this evening they had raised a fantastic £12,079.12, another £646.33. Looks like their sisters have found out they are stealing the kid's Christmas money. They will never raise enough at this rate. They are doomed I tell you, doomed.

By the way, I have never used Paypal but do they charge for transferring money? If so, could donations be made that would lose Hearts money?

I've just been forwarded this, hope the link works, I'd hardly use the word phenomenal !!! fuds !!! GIRFUY

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index....st=0#msg153600

[Monopolyguy]

So was Hearts cup win tainted, or was it fair?

[Gavin1875]

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At 01.39 this morning JKB had raised £11,432.79, by this evening they had raised a fantastic £12,079.12, another £646.33. Looks like their sisters have found out they are stealing the kid's Christmas money. They will never raise enough at this rate. They are doomed I tell you, doomed.

By the way, I have never used Paypal but do they charge for transferring money? If so, could donations be made that would lose Hearts money?

Thats a cracking idea!!! When Sevco were begging for money I'm sure I read somewhere that it was costing 20p to process all donations so the Celtic fans were donating 1p so they were losing 19p everytime haha

[cheltenhamhibee]

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At 01.39 this morning JKB had raised £11,432.79, by this evening they had raised a fantastic £12,079.12, another £646.33. Looks like their sisters have found out they are stealing the kid's Christmas money. They will never raise enough at this rate. They are doomed I tell you, doomed.

By the way, I have never used Paypal but do they charge for transferring money? If so, could donations be made that would lose Hearts money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo

[PatHead]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo

[Pete]

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So was Hearts cup win tainted, or was it fair?

Tainted...for several reasons.

Never let them forget.

[Spike Mandela]

Stuart Bathgate has lost the plot, today's article is just ramblings of a lost soul who doesn't know what to do.......

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...arts-1-2628373

[God Petrie]

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Stuart Bathgate has lost the plot, today's article is just rambings of a lost soul who doesn't know what to do.......

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...arts-1-2628373

Hahaha what a load of nonsense.

[Springbank]

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So was Hearts cup win tainted, or was it fair?

Let me put it this way:

Seven Nil - effortless
Six Two - class & style

versus

Five One - killed themselves in the process

Only one side of the Edinburgh divide knows how you do things properly, and with integrity

[s.a.m]

I opened my email account this morning, and found the following message:

sputnik,

Ulysses has sent you a new personal conversation entitled "What if this time.........".

Ulysses said:
================================================== ====================
.....we were to go down, but not be able to go back up?

Over the last few days, Hearts supporters have worried a lot about this. As you can probably guess, the club's present financial worries have been the main topic of discussion on Jambos Kickback lately.

So we decided to do our bit. We're buying JKB collective shares, and we're asking members to contribute. Maybe you don't have £110 or more to spend on buying shares yourself - or maybe you live abroad and buying shares isn't recommended. But maybe you have a few pounds available and can contribute to the Jambos Kickback collective effort.

So far, we've collected more than £13,000, and we've already passed £5,500 of that to Hearts in return for 50,000 shares. If you've already made a contribution and been a part of this phenomenal effort, thanks very much - it is hugely appreciated.

If you'd like to read more, have a look at a couple of links. This thread is about the JKB share purchase:


How the **** did this find its way to me? Has Sputnik the yam (who presumably has not yet thrown his piggy bank contents down the black hole) thieved my address? I have never even been on Kickback, let alone registered.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Stuart Bathgate has lost the plot, today's article is just rambings of a lost soul who doesn't know what to do.......

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...arts-1-2628373

Fedotovas obviously hasn't told them what to say this morning.

[Mikey]

Have they paid it yet?

If not, why not? We're told they have the money.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Stuart Bathgate has lost the plot, today's article is just rambings of a lost soul who doesn't know what to do.......

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...arts-1-2628373

Actually, it seems alright to me.

Whats up with it (aside from the fact that ignores the fact that the whole house of cards will fall), its fairly accurate in its summation of Romanov

[Alex Trager]

So how far are they from dying now? Is it still highly possible? Does it look like they are going to pay the 480K ?

[YehButNoBut]

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So how far are they from dying now? Is it still highly possible? Does it look like they are going to pay the 480K ?

I have no doubt that this amount will be paid this week but it's only delaying the inevitable, as the wages still have to be paid twice before the end of the year and there is the £1.75 million tax bill to come.

That's a lot of face painting and cake baking to get close to that amount, they won't go bust this week but it's bound to happen before the end of the season.