Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[green glory]

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That's exactly what I was thinking. What does everybody think is going to happen today?

I was referring to today's Scotsman story where Bumguts Blobbo appeals to the fans to support the share issue.

"Because if the club can't get very, very close to the full subscription then they're going to struggle to see out the end of the season."

"It is very, very grave".


They're now openly talking about administration or liquidation coming very soon too.

[Mon Dieu4]

could Vlad potentially wait until the share issue is over, then go into admin etc and have their pennies sat about waiting to be paid out to creditors? if its possible id seriously love him to properly screw them over like that

[green glory]

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could Vlad potentially wait until the share issue is over, then go into admin etc and have their pennies sat about waiting to be paid out to creditors? if its possible id seriously love him to properly screw them over like that

Vlad is the main creditor, so if admin happens he'd have to agree a CVA with himself, so it's likely they'd go straight to liquidation.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Vlad is the main creditor, so if admin happens he'd have to agree a CVA with himself, so it's likely they'd go straight to liquidation.

cheers, either way i want him to take their cash and run

[Caversham Green]

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could Vlad potentially wait until the share issue is over, then go into admin etc and have their pennies sat about waiting to be paid out to creditors? if its possible id seriously love him to properly screw them over like that

Here's a reply I prepared earlier.

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Right, I'll say to start with that this is food for thought rather what I think is going to happen, but...

The key is the rule about directors personal liability for trading while insolvent. The rule is that the directors could become personally liable for any costs incurred when they knew the company to be insolvent. The tax case would would fall outside that rule because it's not a cost that was incurred during the insolvent period and the proceeds of the share issue would also escape because it's not a cost, it's an attempt to raise capital. Hold those thoughts.

Fuddytoerag said in an interview that the share proceeds would not be used to pay the tax bill and that they would seek alternative funding. It has also been said (I think in the share brochure) that all other attempts to find alternative funding have been exhausted. So, if they lose the tax case they can claim to have no option but to effect an insolvency event - they can't continue to trade because they would be incurring extra costs and the funding they were previously depending on has been stopped.

That means UBIG stand to take everything that can be raised from a liquidation because their debt is greater than the total liquidation value. However, that value will have been increased by whatever the share issue raises so UBIG gain slightly more than they would have done previously. The timing fits almost perfectly and I can't see that any fraud could be proven - whether the share proceeds would be worth it is debatable.

As I say, food for thought.

I don't think it's what will happen, but it seems feasible to me - the share issue might pay the liquidator's fees.

[CentreLine]

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Vlad is the main creditor, so if admin happens he'd have to agree a CVA with himself, so it's likely they'd go straight to liquidation.

Will Vlad want an Aministrator to see his books? Can there be an Administration if he does not and therefore can there be the prospect of a CVA?
Similarly, if hahahahahearts are going to contest the tax case the onus is on them to disporove the case presented by the tax man. Can they have any prospect of doing that without Vlad opening his books and revealing what is behind the smoke and mirrors?

Interesting few weeks ahead me thinks

[green glory]

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index....0#entry3230098

Some interesting posts towards the end if the page. Various people independently getting info about them possibly going into administration TODAY.

Got to hand it to them, the Sevco fiasco has at least opened their eyes.

I'll not get too excited until we hear something more concrete.

The game's not over till the fat striker ****s his maroon nappy.

[EskbankHibby]

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could Vlad potentially wait until the share issue is over, then go into admin etc and have their pennies sat about waiting to be paid out to creditors? if its possible id seriously love him to properly screw them over like that

This is the bit that i find particularly odd about their fanbase. It would appear that there are still Hearts fans around who actually think that Romanov is acting in the best interests of the club.

Front pocket or back pocket this cash is going to him, make no mistake about that. The increasingly desperate raking up of former Hearts heroes (i fully expect to see Craig Thomson with brochure in hand soon) to flog this dead pink horse is tragically pathetic.

At a time when their support should be galvanising for a very difficult time ahead there are huge divisions between the few realists and the Romanov Boaby Takers.

[Steve20]

Would they not wait until they see how this share issue goes before going into administration?

I have absolutely no idea about this sort of stuff, so was just wondering.

[Kato]

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http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index....0#entry3230098

soem jambo wrote

WTF - Why wouldn't we see the end of this week?! What the hell is going on?!?

Where has this guy been the last few years?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Would they not wait until they see how this share issue goes before going into administration?

I have absolutely no idea about this sort of stuff, so was just wondering.

If someone is demanding cash to the extent of going to court and they are unable to pay, they would be forced into administration or liquidation (depending on what the petitioner demands). Share issue wouldn't be relevant in that case.

[Steve20]

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If someone is demanding cash to the extent of going to court and they are unable to pay, they would be forced into administration or liquidation (depending on what the petitioner demands). Share issue wouldn't be relevant in that case.

Cheers. Fingers crossed they're in administration soon then.

[s.a.m]

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Here's a reply I prepared earlier.



I don't think it's what will happen, but it seems feasible to me - the share issue might pay the liquidator's fees.

I'm almost certainly completely missing the point here, but does he have to go through either of these official processes? Could he not just sell the ground from under them, pay off the tax bill, and keep whatever is left to put towards their debt to himself, and leave the football authorities to sort out the mess? Does he need to pay a liquidator?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Cheers. Fingers crossed they're in administration soon then.

Have to say my wager (if bookies took such bets) would be on today's rumour being a false alarm. But unless they generate significant income / "investment" from somewhere they won't get to the end of the season. They've essentially used most of this season's revenue (season book sales, the Liverpool game) to pay off last season's unpaid bills.

[Caversham Green]

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I'm almost certainly completely missing the point here, but does he have to go through either of these official processes? Could he not just sell the ground from under them, pay off the tax bill, and keep whatever is left to put towards their debt to himself, and leave the football authorities to sort out the mess? Does he need to pay a liquidator?

Yes, he would need to pay a liquidator to close the company down and make sure that the proceeds of liquidation are distributed properly. It probably wouldn't be very complicated because all the assets are covered by his securities, so the fees probably wouldn't be very high. On the other hand administration would probably be a waste of time and money (although I maintain it would actually be a good thing in the long run for the club itself).

[s.a.m]

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Yes, he would need to pay a liquidator to close the company down and make sure that the proceeds of liquidation are distributed properly. It probably wouldn't be very complicated because all the assets are covered by his securities, so the fees probably wouldn't be very high. On the other hand administration would probably be a waste of time and money (although I maintain it would actually be a good thing in the long run for the club itself).

[YehButNoBut]

It's interesting when you read what happened to FC Partizan who were funded by Vlad until earlier this year, looks like a similar thing is about to happen to Hearts.

In early 2012 the club was abandoned by their main sponsor Vladimir Romanov and consequently wasn't able to keep any of the first team players or obtain the Premier League license.^[2] Partizan withdrew from the Premier League, leaving it with only 11 teams.^[3] As of March 2012 the club is struggling to join Second League for the upcoming season. Due to problems with license Partizan Minsk was not able to take part in Second League. Currently the team is playing in Third League which is known as Championship of Minsk city

[green glory]

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It's interesting when you read what happened to FC Partizan who were funded by Vlad until earlier this year, looks like a similar thing is about to happen to Hearts.

In early 2012 the club was abandoned by their main sponsor Vladimir Romanov and consequently wasn't able to keep any of the first team players or obtain the Premier League license.^[2] Partizan withdrew from the Premier League, leaving it with only 11 teams.^[3] As of March 2012 the club is struggling to join Second League for the upcoming season. Due to problems with license Partizan Minsk was not able to take part in Second League. Currently the team is playing in Third League which is known as Championship of Minsk city

If he's callous enough to do this to Partizan he's callous enough to do it to Hearts.

[Sergey]

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If he's callous enough to do this to Partizan he's callous enough to do it to Hearts.

He also did it with FBK Kaunas

[bingo70]

Has anyone got todays evening news yet? Hearing they might be running with story of big cut backs at hearts although pressumably it won't be from the playing staff.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Incredibly there's only a couple of posts on Brokeback this morning about this. I don't suppose they're shrieking with glee the same way we are though.

Maroonsevco, the countdown has begun.

It staggers me that there is so little on ostrichheidback about this. A few threads, which descend into name calling and accusations of being a hobo if you're not on message after a few pages, then nowt.

I think they've given up.

Gut feel - a thousand or so of them burn their kids christmas money, raise maybe a couple of hundred thousand at most.

Then they die.

And they know it too.

(When they do die, it'd be nice to see Le Chat explode with rage and bile. He is a genuinely execrable creature).

[Onion]

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http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index....0#entry3230098

Some interesting posts towards the end if the page. Various people independently getting info about them possibly going into administration TODAY.

Got to hand it to them, the Sevco fiasco has at least opened their eyes.

I'll not get too excited until we hear something more concrete.

The game's not over till the fat striker ****s his maroon nappy.

As soon as Hun FC went bust owing £134M and came out the other end debt free with all their assets, this became the obvious blue-print for Yam FC. Ok, they'll end up in the lower Divs with their brother huns, but will quickly find people (like the EDC and local business men) to invest in them. They'll keep the Pick Bus Shelter, shed a few high earners, screw over the tax man (ie us) and scurry in the 3rd Div to avoid us pumping them for the next few years.

[steviehibsleith]

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Has anyone got todays evening news yet? Hearing they might be running with story of big cut backs at hearts although pressumably it won't be from the playing staff.

Although this makes me happy to see the demise across the city I am genuinely sorry to hear about cutbacks as right now it wont be the players (who gladly can gtf)because of thier contracts but just the normal folk who deal with day to day running and are not all yams just doing a job.

[CentreLine]

I just can't wish for hahahahahearts to disappear. Right now we are all anticipating and looking forward to our date with destiny on 2nd December followed by the 40th Anniversary of the greatest game in history.

Just exactly what are we going to do for the BIG game of our season in future. Lets get real about this. The total demise of hahahahahhearts would be a bad thing for them and us.

[Dr Jimmy]

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Yes, he would need to pay a liquidator to close the company down and make sure that the proceeds of liquidation are distributed properly. It probably wouldn't be very complicated because all the assets are covered by his securities, so the fees probably wouldn't be very high. On the other hand administration would probably be a waste of time and money (although I maintain it would actually be a good thing in the long run for the club itself).

If he shut the club and liquidated the assets, would he have to pay all the staff (inc players) redundancy money?

[hibIBZ]

correct me if i am wrong but did hibs not do a similar thing with selling shares to fans in the 80s? im guessing it didnt work as the club had financial problems up until tom farmer stepped in. as i say im not 100% on this as i could on of been about 2 at the time but if farmer had to step in soon after is it fair to say it didnt work? can any comparisons can be made with the yams?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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As soon as Hun FC went bust owing £134M and came out the other end debt free with all their assets, this became the obvious blue-print for Yam FC. Ok, they'll end up in the lower Divs with their brother huns, but will quickly find people (like the EDC and local business men) to invest in them. They'll keep the Pick Bus Shelter, shed a few high earners, screw over the tax man (ie us) and scurry in the 3rd Div to avoid us pumping them for the next few years.

That involves a lot of heroic assumptions. The risks of Hearts losing Tynecastle or being locked out of the league system (if they go bust at the wrong time) are much greater. They also don't have the same leverage as Rangers (ie let us back in or your TV contract disappears).

[Stevie Reid]

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correct me if i am wrong but did hibs not do a similar thing with selling shares to fans in the 80s? im guessing it didnt work as the club had financial problems up until tom farmer stepped in. as i say im not 100% on this as i could on of been about 2 at the time but if farmer had to step in soon after is it fair to say it didnt work? can any comparisons can be made with the yams?

I was very young at the time but IIRC the share issue was extremely successful in terms of the money raised. Obviously we ended up in a very bad way but from my very limited knowledge we ended up in such a state due to the club's money being badly invested.

[hibIBZ]

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I was very young at the time but IIRC the share issue was extremely successful in terms of the money raised. Obviously we ended up in a very bad way but from my very limited knowledge we ended up in such a state due to the club's money being badly invested.

as i said i have very little knowledge of what happened. was just something that was in the back of my mind

[Peevemor]

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I was very young at the time but IIRC the share issue was extremely successful in terms of the money raised. Obviously we ended up in a very bad way but from my very limited knowledge we ended up in such a state due to the club's money being badly invested.

The money raised was invested in Avon Inns, a struggling hotel group forced on Duff & Gray by David Rowland. This is basically what put us in so much trouble. These shares weren't only bought by the fans but also by financial institutions - these are the shares that were eventually bought up in dribs and drabs during the Hands off Hibs campaign.