Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Aldo]

They all have their heads in the sand... Delusional. Craigan mentioned the other nite that the day before the story came out bout the 1.75 mill tax bill they was going to be a share issue trying to raise....mmmm let me think. 1.75 mill.

Anyone of them who puts their cash to that needs to visit the Andrew Duncan ( and no disrespect to those at Andrew Duncan meant)

I hope they get dragged through the nite. Stripped of everything. I get a feeling that the mad one has a wee sneaky up his sleeve when the rug gets pulled.

Something like o the ground doesn't belong to them it's leased from someone else.

I really do hope this happens as I won't need a crimbo or birthday present as their demise would be more than enough for me.

[Hibbyradge]

So, Kaunus buy a player who immediately goes "on loan" to Hearts.

The transfer fee/signing on fee/agent fee is then recouped by the mysterious "player registrations" which Hearts paid.

Hearts then avoid PAYE on the salary.

Is this a possible scenario?

[Treadstone]

CG , CWG or PTS

In the share brochure they say that the 'burden of proof is on the company' does this mean that:

1. HMRC has a stated and probably common sense position on this ?
2. It is up to Hearts to disprove this ?
3. This is almost sewn up from an HMRC view ?

[Keith_M]

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If he was loaned to Hearts, then he isn't their employee. They have no responsibility in PAYE terms; they would pay Kaunas a fee per month. Which is where my confusion arises.

However, HMRC may have concluded that he IS an employee. Such decisions aren't up to the employer or employee... they are often decided on the basis of a number of facts. If that is the case, then all of the loaned players would be subject to PAYE.

If that is HMRC's position, and it is supported by the FTT, that could have serious implications for all cross-border loans.

When I was Contracting (don't ask and you won't get hurt ) I was aware that there is a rule that says once you have been in an country (possibly EU only though, can't remember) more than 182 days, you are due to pay tax in that country.

Is this not relevant in this instance? For instance, Bednar signs for Kaunas but plays all his football at Hearts, more than 182 days. HMRC consider this to be de-facto employement by Hearts and therefore adjudge him to be 100% liable to UK taxation.

Or is this too simplistic?

[CropleyWasGod]

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CG , CWG or PTS

In the share brochure they say that the 'burden of proof is on the company' does this mean that:

1. HMRC has a stated and probably common sense position on this ?
2. It is up to Hearts to disprove this ?
3. This is almost sewn up from an HMRC view ?

HMRC have made an assessment, which HMFC have appealled against. It is now up to HMFC to prove the basis of their appeal.

[Spike Mandela]

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I don't log on often, normally lurching in the background as a guest, but these few days I feel the need to contribute to what I have no doubt will become the longest thread in hibs.net history over the coming months, dwarfing the already legendary Rangers thread.

This is history in the making for our city rivals. Unfortunately for them it's soon to be the end of their history.

It's going to be a long slow death over the next few months. I'm afraid (not!) that the cancer is terminal for Jambos.

I'm off to get a huge bag of pop corn and watch this unfold.

This is undoubtedly the start of the end. GIRUY!

Like it was the end for Rangers?

Cast your eyes over to Ibrox. Sitting top of their league, millions of debt cast off, riding roughshod over the authorities, laughing at other teams and their supporters and more unscrupulous people taking over trying to make a fast buck.

My prediction to the end of all this will see Hearts suffering some kind of sanctions allied to their financial woes but the future will be pretty much as it is for Rangers. Carry on regardless.

[CropleyWasGod]

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When I was Contracting (don't ask and you won't get hurt ) I was aware that there is a rule that says once you have been in an country (possibly EU only though, can't remember) more than 182 days, you are due to pay tax in that country.

Is this not relevant in this instance? For instance, Bednar signs for Kaunas but plays all his football at Hearts, more than 182 days. HMRC consider this to be de-facto employement by Hearts and therefore adjudge him to be 100% liable to UK taxation.

Or is this too simplistic?

It's kind of relevant. The number of days aren't important (although that would be if they were actual employees), but I am veering towards the theory that HMRC have decided that they ARE employees, no matter what anyone says.

[HibbyRod]

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I can.

They are 110% obsessed with us. Nothing matters during the season as long as they beat us. Small minds have small pleasures. They are far too busy with pictures of various coppers, refs and former players doing the 5-1 thing to notice that are on the way out of the SPL very soon.

I truly hope the taxman and the SPL bosses absolutely bury this club, the 3rd division isn't just punishment for them, they need a Gretna type expulsion.

Is that Craig Thomson doing the hands gesture?

[FitbaFolkKen]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ults-1-2602698

Enjoyed this, apologies if posted already!

[JimBHibees]

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Is that Craig Thomson doing the hands gesture?

If it isnt it should be.

[Off the bar]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20140052

according to mcfud it's all celtics fault.

[Hibercelona]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20140052

according to mcfud it's all celtics fault.

Sadly, because its a dig at Celtic, everybody will agree with him. Although his reasoning behind not wanting Celtic in the league, will greatly differ from our own and other club supporters that aren't jambos or huns.

[Keith_M]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20140052

according to mcfud it's all celtics fault.

Well, it seems they now have the same victim complex as their big brothers in the west. They think everything is Celtcs fault as well but nothing is the fault of Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco.


FWIW, I wouldn't like to see Celtc leave the league now, seeing as the league is closer than it's been for decades.

[Newry Hibs]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20140052

according to mcfud it's all celtics fault.

In the link ....

"At the minute it's exciting because from week to week someone else is second in the league," McGlynn continued.


Celtc could be 4th at 5.00pm on Saturday if results work out (though, admittedly I think they'll win the league).

[Spike Mandela]

Scots law blog talks Hearts share issue

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ie-hards-only/

[Billy Whizz]

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Scots law blog talks Hearts share issue

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ie-hards-only/

Under the heading
Specific Risks Factors – Working Capital Shortfall
It says Hearts may need a "payday" loan if they have insufficient working Capital!
Will Wonga step in

[cam75]

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Scots law blog talks Hearts share issue

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ie-hards-only/

Decent read,now we're is my cheque book :-)

[Sir David Gray]

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This always irks me a bit. Everything I've posted on this subject has been based on a genuine analysis of their situation using my professional knowledge and experience - it has never just been wishful thinking. I've also always tried to explain the reasons behind my comments as clearly as I could. The one and only factor that has kept HoMFC going has been Romanov's willingness to throw money at them for far longer than I or many others expected. He has made it very clear that that has now stopped and I can't see any form of rescue for them unless he changes his mind. I'll happily debate the possibilities with anyone who can offer a reasonable argument, but "we've heard it all before" just won't do.

I realise that it's been going on for years, but every incident has had subtle differences from the previous one that suggested they were getting closer and closer to the S-trap and this looks like the worst so far. If you think it's not going to happen then give us good reasons why you think that.

BTW that wasn't a direct go at you FH - I don't think you usually post that sort of comment.

I wasn't directly commenting on or challenging anything that you have said in my last post so not sure why you're replying to me here.

I know you've commented a lot on Hearts' situation over the years and I know you've looked at it a lot in quite great detail.

All I was saying was that I really want to see them finally meet the justice that they deserve for their overspending and general cheating during the Romanov reign and I have heard so many people, for about the past five or six years, saying that Hearts were going to be finished by such and such a day and would be in administration etc and it's just never happened.

I will admit that this latest comment admitting serious concerns from one of their own directors looks and sounds quite promising but I just don't want to get my hopes up.

However, that is not to say that I am doubting your knowledge of the situation.

[poolman]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20140052

according to mcfud it's all celtics fault.

You have to bow to his experience tho

He's managed in rhe S P L for three months now

He's also managed teams like Easthouses Lily and Musselburgh Athletic

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Hi lads, just thought I'd pop in to let you know I'm still absolutely laughing my heid aff one week later.

[PatHead]

Might as well remind you that Hearts are going to their most favourite away venue this weekend. Hope the fond memories of that famous day bring an even bigger smile to your face.



Aw ****** it, might as well go for it, can someone put up a link? (Any photos of that guy greeting would be appreciated as well)

[Hibbyradge]

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Scots law blog talks Hearts share issue

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ie-hards-only/

“What is being offered are shares in a company where the buyer’s holding can be diluted without their approval; where there is no market for the shares; where there is no prospect of a dividend; where the company is effectively insolvent and therefore the shares are worthless the minute the buyer writes a cheque for them.”

[rossevenil]

Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread about Craig Gordons move to Sunderland,now did his contract get switched to Kaunas before this transfer thus meaning that the £10mil fee would be paid to them rather than
Sevco 2 and in someway dodging more tax??
I have absolutely no idea on this but was just wondering if that could be what raised suspicions if a contract changed hands shortly before a big money transfer.

[Golden Bear]

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“What is being offered are shares in a company where the buyer’s holding can be diluted without their approval; where there is no market for the shares; where there is no prospect of a dividend; where the company is effectively insolvent and therefore the shares are worthless the minute the buyer writes a cheque for them.”

That makes good reading but to be honest many of us who are Hibs shareholders did so purely on the basis that they were buying into "their Club" with no prospect of any future financial gain.

I remember the bleak days of the Mercer takeover when our supporters (acting out of desperation) went out and purchased Hibs shares with a view to preventing the Devil incarnate from purchasing any further shares.

I can visualise that supporters of THEM will indeed go ahead and purchase shares in a last desperate throw of the dice to save their tawdry club.

[Twa Cairpets]

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That makes good reading but to be honest many of us who are Hibs shareholders did so purely on the basis that they were buying into "their Club" with no prospect of any future financial gain.

I remember the bleak days of the Mercer takeover when our supporters (acting out of desperation) went out and purchased Hibs shares with a view to preventing the Devil incarnate from purchasing any further shares.

I can visualise that supporters of THEM will indeed go ahead and purchase shares in a last desperate throw of the dice to save their tawdry club.

The more money that these deluded f***tards p*ss up a wall in order to save they're horrible little club the better. Unlike the takeover bid, the buying of shares was a tactical move to block him getting more. Hearts share offer is nothing more than a grubby plea for cash from a grubby institution.

Every penny they spend trying to do a Canute and fighting the tide is a penny they don't have to invest in the inevitable maroonsevco, and the worse off they are in the long run.

When they end up in division 3, or lower, it'll be interesting to see if their "big team" mantra doesn't even hold true in the bottom tier of the league.

I don't want them to die. I just want them to suffer. For ever.

[Bill Milne]

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So, Kaunus buy a player who immediately goes "on loan" to Hearts.

The transfer fee/signing on fee/agent fee is then recouped by the mysterious "player registrations" which Hearts paid.

Hearts then avoid PAYE on the salary.

Is this a possible scenario?

This is what I have contended the problem to be. It seems like tax evasion rather thand tax avoidance, which is probably why HMRC are now chasing them. As the onus is on Hertz to prove their case, I await a, no doubt, convulted fairy tale from Romanov and his minions to squirm out of the very deep pile of sh*te they are now in.

[500miles]

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As an aside, did anyone notice this photo in the share brochure?

Attachment 8779

Can anyone explain the reason behind putting this picture into the section for the terms and conditions? Other than the obvious "5-1" hand signal the ref is giving.....

Good to see they're finally admitting who was really thier key player in the final.

[Seveno]

I suspect that the immediate reaction of the share sale flop by Vlad will be to instruct a massive fire sale in January and claim that it is not his fault. As can be seen from Kaunas, he won't give a **** if they drop down several divisions.

A few years in the lower leagues until the property market recovers, and then UBIG call in the debt leading to the sale of the PBS.

The slow lingering death that would be the best option for me, I think.

[Aldo]

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That makes good reading but to be honest many of us who are Hibs shareholders did so purely on the basis that they were buying into "their Club" with no prospect of any future financial gain.

I remember the bleak days of the Mercer takeover when our supporters (acting out of desperation) went out and purchased Hibs shares with a view to preventing the Devil incarnate from purchasing any further shares.

I can visualise that supporters of THEM will indeed go ahead and purchase shares in a last desperate throw of the dice to save their tawdry club.

Yeah but the mad one knows there is a 1.75 million HMRC bill on its way and wait they want to raise 1.75 million in a share issue.

If you buy into the club yur shares are worth nowt before you even start and when they go tits up they'll be worth absolutely diddly ****. No even worth the paper they are written.

Please please please Santa bring me the demise of the Yams.

[Golden Bear]

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Yeah but the mad one knows there is a 1.75 million HMRC bill on its way and wait they want to raise 1.75 million in a share issue.

If you buy into the club yur shares are worth nowt before you even start and when they go tits up they'll be worth absolutely diddly ****. No even worth the paper they are written.

Please please please Santa bring me the demise of the Yams.

It's simply a financial donation and even the yams are not stupid enough to think otherwise.(I think!)