Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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And Chico has nil shares which means despite his phenoemenol claims regarding Newhun's financial future he has not been prepared to forward one penny of his own money.

He lent the company £5.5m for the asset purchase, which (as Cav suggests) may be paid off by the shares issued thus far.

The last line, though, says that he is due a 10% bonus for a successful float. It doesn't specify "10% of what?".

[LeighLoyal]

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He lent the company £5.5m for the asset purchase, which (as Cav suggests) may be paid off by the shares issued thus far.

The last line, though, says that he is due a 10% bonus for a successful float. It doesn't specify "10% of what?".

We can assume when he collects this mysterious Sevcorpse percentage he exits stage left with a suitcase of zombie cash.

[CropleyWasGod]

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We can assume when he collects this mysterious Sevcorpse percentage he exits stage left with a suitcase of zombie cash.

I think it's more of an "if", given that a successful flotation is by no means a certainty.

[PatHead]

Uefa list of registered clubs....................

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/...r=R/index.html


At least they haven't fallen into the same trap as Scottish Press and say it is the same old Rangers

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Uefa list of registered clubs....................

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/...r=R/index.html


At least they haven't fallen into the same trap as Scottish Press and say it is the same old Rangers

The Rangers "men's" team has been deleted because they aren't in the SPL. There aren't any SFL teams in that link.

[LeighLoyal]

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The Rangers "men's" team has been deleted because they aren't in the SPL. There aren't any SFL teams in that link.

If and when a Zombie huns team is in the spl, T'Rangers 2012 at best on UEFA list!

[jgl07]

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The Rangers "men's" team has been deleted because they aren't in the SPL. There aren't any SFL teams in that link.

Why the womens team and the futsal teams then?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Why the womens team and the futsal teams then?

They play in the top division of those competitions.

[Kaiser1962]

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He lent the company £5.5m for the asset purchase, which (as Cav suggests) may be paid off by the shares issued thus far.

The last line, though, says that he is due a 10% bonus for a successful float. It doesn't specify "10% of what?".

Are we sure it was "his" money? I always thought he was the frontman for some sort of coalition of the stupid who had put up the cash, hence the shareholdings.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Are we sure it was "his" money? I always thought he was the frontman for some sort of coalition of the stupid who had put up the cash, hence the shareholdings.

Fair point. When I say "him", I meant him/one of his companies/him and his mates.

The main point was, though, to say that "he" etc had lent the cash to NewCo, rather than actually bought shares in the company with it.

[Jack Hackett]

It's beginning to get on my thruppeny's how long it's taking for the FTT verdict to be released. They said on Sept 12th it would be in October, but they appear to be hanging on to the very end of the month to do it. Why? What possible purpose does it serve dragging it out like this?

....and have the Duffers handed over the leavings to BDO for liquidation yet? The lack of any 'official' clarification is frustrating. I want to see action, and I want to see it NOW

[jonty]

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Uefa list of registered clubs....................

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/...r=R/index.html


At least they haven't fallen into the same trap as Scottish Press and say it is the same old Rangers

Admit it - who clicked on S looking for Sevco FC

[Jack Hackett]

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Admit it - who clicked on S looking for Sevco FC

I looked under 'T' for 'THE' Rangers, but the closest I could find was 'The Glen Bar'

[Sir David Gray]

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Admit it - who clicked on S looking for Sevco FC

Guilty!

[green glory]

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It's beginning to get on my thruppeny's how long it's taking for the FTT verdict to be released. They said on Sept 12th it would be in October, but they appear to be hanging on to the very end of the month to do it. Why? What possible purpose does it serve dragging it out like this?

....and have the Duffers handed over the leavings to BDO for liquidation yet? The lack of any 'official' clarification is frustrating. I want to see action, and I want to see it NOW

Have no fear. Mere days to go. The verdict was with Murray and Hector as of Friday. Maximum two weeks before it's public. Rumour is it's what we all expected . Guilty guilty guilty!!!

[lapsedhibee]

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Have no fear. Mere days to go. The verdict was with Murray and Hector as of Friday. Maximum two weeks before it's public. Rumour is it's what we all expected . Guilty guilty guilty!!!

Quite, quite wrong to pre-empt the official announcement.

But just in case, I'm adopting this rightaway as an earworm.

[monktonharp]

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Have no fear. Mere days to go. The verdict was with Murray and Hector as of Friday. Maximum two weeks before it's public. Rumour is it's what we all expected . Guilty guilty guilty!!!

If I was a betting man, and I'm not, I wouldnae bet on that. but I like the way your thinking

[steakbake]

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Have no fear. Mere days to go. The verdict was with Murray and Hector as of Friday. Maximum two weeks before it's public. Rumour is it's what we all expected . Guilty guilty guilty!!!

What would be the consequence of that result? Who is responsible for it - the original RFC or Sevco?

[HoboHarry]

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What would be the consequence of that result? Who is responsible for it - the original RFC or Sevco?

That's my question too. If the verdict is guilty, what then?

[CropleyWasGod]

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What would be the consequence of that result? Who is responsible for it - the original RFC or Sevco?

The original.

The only real effect a "guilty" verdict would have would be to dilute the dividend to the other creditors.

It is possible that HMRC might then take action against the directors of the Oldco. However, there should be no implications for the new company.

[greenginger]

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The original.

The only real effect a "guilty" verdict would have would be to dilute the dividend to the other creditors.

It is possible that HMRC might then take action against the directors of the Oldco. However, there should be no implications for the new company.

Except for the shame and humiliation because after all, they are the same club as they bought ALL their history.

The notion that Scottish clubs did the right thing in banishing the Govan football institution to the bottom league might just sink in to footballing pundits on Sky Sports etc. and to a few more politicians nearer home.

[Kaiser1962]

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Fair point. When I say "him", I meant him/one of his companies/him and his mates.

The main point was, though, to say that "he" etc had lent the cash to NewCo, rather than actually bought shares in the company with it.

I know that this is what we are told happened the bit I am having trouble with his public utterances stating that Newhun "have no debt". Surely it cant be both? Also there now appears to be a list of 19.8m shares that has miraculously appeared despite there having been no notification to CoHo of this, and I understand that there has to be notification within 30 days. He may be a Mr. Super Salesman but like most of his breed, the ends justify the means but I can only imagine the carnage that is left in his wake.

My understanding of the £5.5m, however, is that he borrowed the money as a short term loan on the promise of quick and hugely profitable returns and now, as the lenders are asking for their money back, we are having a public share issue. It may be that the lenders are getting a bit jittery given the attention Green is attracting or, it may be as others have pointed out, they need to get their money back and scatter the company ownership far and wide before BDO begin seriously digging. After all he bought Rangers assetts for £1.5m and (claims) he now has a valuation of those assetts of £80m. Obviously not the same valuers that D+P used, unfortunately.

My point was really that if this was such a sure thing them why did Green choose to borrow the money from investors and not use his own which would have enabled him, personally, to make the killing?

[ballengeich]

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Except for the shame and humiliation because after all, they are the same club as they bought ALL their history.

The notion that Scottish clubs did the right thing in banishing the Govan football institution to the bottom league might just sink in to footballing pundits on Sky Sports etc. and to a few more politicians nearer home.

If Newco has bought all of Rangers' history then they must surely accept liability for any football penalties due for misconduct by previous owners of the club. I'm interested in just what Green has signed up for when the SFA licence was transferred.

If the SPL investigation into dual contracts decides that results in past years should be amended, then I would expect the owners of the history to be liable for the return of any dishonestly earned prize money. Will Sevco agree to this?

[CropleyWasGod]

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If Newco has bought all of Rangers' history then they must surely accept liability for any football penalties due for misconduct by previous owners of the club. I'm interested in just what Green has signed up for when the SFA licence was transferred.

If the SPL investigation into dual contracts decides that results in past years should be amended, then I would expect the owners of the history to be liable for the return of any dishonestly earned prize money. Will Sevco agree to this?

Are these football penalties, though? (devil's advocate smiley..)

[ballengeich]

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Are these football penalties, though? (devil's advocate smiley..)

I suspect that's a subject which lawyers will investigate at great length, for appropriate remuneration of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I suspect that's a subject which lawyers will investigate at great length, for appropriate remuneration of course.

IMO, it's not really relevant.

Unless the SFA/SPL have come to an agreement with the NewCo that all football debts have to be paid off, AND that amounts due to HMRC are classed as such,.... all of which is unlikely.... the tax debts stay with the old company.

[ballengeich]

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IMO, it's not really relevant.

Unless the SFA/SPL have come to an agreement with the NewCo that all football debts have to be paid off, AND that amounts due to HMRC are classed as such,.... all of which is unlikely.... the tax debts stay with the old company.

I agree with you about the money due to HMRC. What isn't clear to me is the extent to which the SFA licence agreement allows any future penalties to be imposed by the SFA/SPL for past offences. NewCo have agreed to pay some outstanding transfer fees. They accepted a reduced form of the player registration embargo. I've no doubt that title stripping can be done, but what else? I just don't know what the details are and that's where I see a possible future legal battle.

[mim]

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The Rangers "men's" team has been deleted because they aren't in the SPL. There aren't any SFL teams in that link.

Nah they're still there. Just got the country wrong

[s.a.m]

24 October 2012 Last updated at 18:07 Craig Whyte recorded Rangers Ticketus deal talks with David Grier

By Mark Daly BBC Scotland Investigations Correspondent Mr Grier has said he was only aware of the Ticketus deal in August 2011
Continue reading the main story Related Stories

• Whyte makes Ticketus deal claims
• Whyte: I found buyer for Rangers
• Murray 'to blame' for Gers' woes

BBC Scotland has uncovered new evidence showing Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps knew Craig Whyte had sold season tickets to buy the club.
It indicates they were intent on denying it because they thought they could get away with it.
In May, the BBC suggested Duff and Phelps partner, David Grier, may have known about the £25m Ticketus deal last April, before Mr Whyte's takeover.
Mr Grier denied any knowledge of the deal until August 2011.
The BBC has obtained a recording of a meeting between Mr Whyte and Mr Grier, which show Duff and Phelps did know.
Mr Whyte bought Rangers from Sir David Murray for £1 and paid an £18m debt to Lloyds Bank by selling three years of season tickets to finance firm Ticketus for £25m.
As well as being involved in Mr Whyte's takeover, Duff and Phelps were appointed as Rangers' administrators after the club plunged into insolvency in February 2012.
In May, a BBC Scotland investigation suggested that Mr Grier may have known that about the controversial Ticketus deal before the Whyte takeover was complete.
Mr Grier, and Duff and Phelps, denied the claims and said he was unaware of this particular Ticketus deal until August 2011.
Last week, in a BBC interview, Mr Whyte said that "everybody who was involved in the deal team at the time knew about" the Ticketus deal.
He added: "They (Duff and Phelps) knew everything, they attended meetings, they were copied into all the emails, they were there on the day of completion. They knew from the start."
That claim prompted Rangers' joint administrator Paul Clark, of Duff and Phelps, to respond: "The allegations against the administrators, who are officers of the court, are false, malicious and without foundation.
"In addition, as administrators, we instigated legal proceedings against Mr Whyte's solicitors (Collyer Bristow) in the High Court in London and those proceedings are centred round the very serious allegation that Mr Whyte was involved in a conspiracy which deprived Rangers of many millions of pounds.
"Our conduct of the Rangers administration has been the subject of intense public scrutiny and we are wholly satisfied it was carried out to the highest professional standards."
BBC Scotland has now received a secret recording that Mr Whyte says he made at a meeting between him and Mr Grier in a private members' club in London on 31 May, after its investigation was broadcast.
The recording, which is to be used in a forthcoming court case involving Duff and Phelps and Mr Whyte's former lawyers Collyer Bristow, has been obtained legitimately by BBC Scotland.
During the exchange, Mr Grier said: "I'll tell you what we're doing with that just so you…
Mr Whyte: "Yeah.
Mr Grier: "We, we went to see counsel yesterday and had a full sort of debrief of all the email correspondence.
Mr Whyte: "Yep.
Mr Grier: "Now, the fact is that we probably did know what was going on with Ticketus. There's no email traffic whatsoever.
Mr Whyte: "That says that you did?"
Mr Grier: "That says that we did.
Mr White: "But we all know that you did and f****** hell.
Mr Grier: "Yeah, yeah. There's no…we were not involved in dealing with Ticketus directly.
Mr Whyte: "Yeah. So you knew the structures of the deal. You were dealing with Lloyds.
Mr Grier: "Absolutely.
Mr Whyte: "And the Ticketus part was Saffreys.
Mr Grier "Yeah. So we've maintained that line quite rigorously."
BBC Scotland has been able to confirm with a voice recognition expert that the recording is of Mr Grier.
Duff and Phelps have yet to respond to the publication of the 31 May conversation.
Regarding previous allegations they said: "Our conduct of the Rangers administration has been the subject of intense public scrutiny and we are wholly satisfied it was carried out to the highest professional standards

[Spike Mandela]

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24 October 2012 Last updated at 18:07 Craig Whyte recorded Rangers Ticketus deal talks with David Grier

By Mark Daly BBC Scotland Investigations Correspondent Mr Grier has said he was only aware of the Ticketus deal in August 2011
Continue reading the main story Related Stories

• Whyte makes Ticketus deal claims
• Whyte: I found buyer for Rangers
• Murray 'to blame' for Gers' woes

BBC Scotland has uncovered new evidence showing Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps knew Craig Whyte had sold season tickets to buy the club.
It indicates they were intent on denying it because they thought they could get away with it.
In May, the BBC suggested Duff and Phelps partner, David Grier, may have known about the £25m Ticketus deal last April, before Mr Whyte's takeover.
Mr Grier denied any knowledge of the deal until August 2011.
The BBC has obtained a recording of a meeting between Mr Whyte and Mr Grier, which show Duff and Phelps did know.
Mr Whyte bought Rangers from Sir David Murray for £1 and paid an £18m debt to Lloyds Bank by selling three years of season tickets to finance firm Ticketus for £25m.
As well as being involved in Mr Whyte's takeover, Duff and Phelps were appointed as Rangers' administrators after the club plunged into insolvency in February 2012.
In May, a BBC Scotland investigation suggested that Mr Grier may have known that about the controversial Ticketus deal before the Whyte takeover was complete.
Mr Grier, and Duff and Phelps, denied the claims and said he was unaware of this particular Ticketus deal until August 2011.
Last week, in a BBC interview, Mr Whyte said that "everybody who was involved in the deal team at the time knew about" the Ticketus deal.
He added: "They (Duff and Phelps) knew everything, they attended meetings, they were copied into all the emails, they were there on the day of completion. They knew from the start."
That claim prompted Rangers' joint administrator Paul Clark, of Duff and Phelps, to respond: "The allegations against the administrators, who are officers of the court, are false, malicious and without foundation.
"In addition, as administrators, we instigated legal proceedings against Mr Whyte's solicitors (Collyer Bristow) in the High Court in London and those proceedings are centred round the very serious allegation that Mr Whyte was involved in a conspiracy which deprived Rangers of many millions of pounds.
"Our conduct of the Rangers administration has been the subject of intense public scrutiny and we are wholly satisfied it was carried out to the highest professional standards."
BBC Scotland has now received a secret recording that Mr Whyte says he made at a meeting between him and Mr Grier in a private members' club in London on 31 May, after its investigation was broadcast.
The recording, which is to be used in a forthcoming court case involving Duff and Phelps and Mr Whyte's former lawyers Collyer Bristow, has been obtained legitimately by BBC Scotland.
During the exchange, Mr Grier said: "I'll tell you what we're doing with that just so you…
Mr Whyte: "Yeah.
Mr Grier: "We, we went to see counsel yesterday and had a full sort of debrief of all the email correspondence.
Mr Whyte: "Yep.
Mr Grier: "Now, the fact is that we probably did know what was going on with Ticketus. There's no email traffic whatsoever.
Mr Whyte: "That says that you did?"
Mr Grier: "That says that we did.
Mr White: "But we all know that you did and f****** hell.
Mr Grier: "Yeah, yeah. There's no…we were not involved in dealing with Ticketus directly.
Mr Whyte: "Yeah. So you knew the structures of the deal. You were dealing with Lloyds.
Mr Grier: "Absolutely.
Mr Whyte: "And the Ticketus part was Saffreys.
Mr Grier "Yeah. So we've maintained that line quite rigorously."
BBC Scotland has been able to confirm with a voice recognition expert that the recording is of Mr Grier.
Duff and Phelps have yet to respond to the publication of the 31 May conversation.
Regarding previous allegations they said: "Our conduct of the Rangers administration has been the subject of intense public scrutiny and we are wholly satisfied it was carried out to the highest professional standards

Ha ha. You've been framed.