Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[tamsonsbairn]

Superswally has been on the telly asking the SPL to be easy on the jambos. :pfgwa

[Jack Hackett]

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Superswally has been on the telly asking the SPL to be easy on the jambos. :pfgwa

What the f&&k does it have to do with the manager of a 3rd division reincarnation of another cheating bunch of......Ohhhhhhh! Words fail me......it's the same with all these clowns coming to the defense of Le Vain over the last week

[Peevemor]

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1500 paying punters at a home game at say on average £20 a head (that's being generous as there'll be concessions) is £30000 per match day and say there's on average 2 home games a month you're looking at roughly £60000 a month.

£60000 a month divided by their first team squad of 47 would work out on average first team weekly wage of about £1200 and that doesn't include management, coaches, youth teams and other outgoings i mentioned earlier.

In short there's basically no way there match day income even comes close to covering there staffing costs so i think it's irrelevant if they've got one home game or two coming up as they must be getting funding from elsewhere, i think vlad must still be supporting them but he's just not making it as easy as he used to for them.

Remember that there is VAT on football tickets, so of the £20 average entry free less than £17 'belongs' to the club.

[Jack Hackett]

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Remember that there is VAT on football tickets, so of the £20 average entry free less than £17 'belongs' to the club.

Try telling that to Rangers(IA)

[Danderhall Hibs]

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£60000 a month divided by their first team squad of 47 would work out on average first team weekly wage of about £1200 and that doesn't include management, coaches, youth teams and other outgoings i mentioned earlier.

That's actually an average monthly wage of £1200 mate.

[bingo70]

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That's actually an average monthly wage of £1200 mate.

Ha ha, there was me trying to be a smart erse with all my figures as well.

That probably highlights my point even more then(I think), home games will make very little difference to whether players get paid or not.

[Mikey]

I'd be surprised if they don't get a suspended point penalty tomorrow, and I'd be surprised if they manage to avoid it being implemented.

And the next one.............

[monktonharp]

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More ridiculous judgements by the football authorities. To be reprimanded for late payment of wages in Sept and 'warned' about future non payment when everybody knows they already have been late with Oct's wages Honestly, no wonder our footballing authorites are a laughing stock.

No doubt punishment will move up a scale for next meeting and move from reprimand to censure or some other meaningless sanction. Vlad must hold them in even greater contempt than normal and must be pissing himself.

What are these authorities good for apart from picking balls out a pot in cup draws and they've even ****ed that up over the years.

anything uttered from that tit Doncaster thesedays, never ceases to surprise me. him and his cronies will tout the fact that they need to consider legal process ,blah blah no doubt but the facts are that HMOFC have thumbed their noses at virtually anything that's came out of the SPL heirarchy over this issue.It is a well known fact to all and sundry that the new rules state that a "club" must notify the spl in writing if they will be in breach of rules re-wages. Hmofc did that,and still Doncaster says that they will give them some sort of hearing ?? I'm mistifyed,not puzzled.

[dangermouse]

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I think this is the problem the punishment should be automatic with no need for a hearing. The spl and the sfa love making things more difficult than they need to be. The only time there should be a meeting is if there's an appeal

Sadly the SPL don't appear to have the brains to set this up. Imagine if the courts worked this way.

You have been found guilty of murder. You are a naughty boy don't do it again or you will be in big trouble.
You have been found guilty of murder again. Don't do it again or I'll be really cross with you, I'm taking your Xbox off you.
You have been found guilty of murder for a third time. Right I've had enough, go and stand in the naughty corner.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I think this is the problem the punishment should be automatic with no need for a hearing. The spl and the sfa love making things more difficult than they need to be. The only time there should be a meeting is if there's an appeal

A club may have a legitimate excuse for not paying wages on time (eg NatWest ****ing up their payments a couple of months ago). You need an initial hearing to determine how and why the late payment happened.

[Sergio sledge]

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Sadly the SPL don't appear to have the brains to set this up. Imagine if the courts worked this way.

You have been found guilty of murder. You are a naughty boy don't do it again or you will be in big trouble.
You have been found guilty of murder again. Don't do it again or I'll be really cross with you, I'm taking your Xbox off you.
You have been found guilty of murder for a third time. Right I've had enough, go and stand in the naughty corner.

Your example is extreme, but that IS how the justice system works. First offences are always treated differently to repeat offences.

Considering the new rules came into play this season it would be unfair to take into account their previous history. It would be like if the speed limit was changed on a road and the police caught someone speeding, then said that they'd also broken the new limit 3 weeks ago, before the new limit was brought into force, so they were going to be treated as a repeat offender.

The only thing the SPL have got wrong on this is the length of time it took to have the hearing. They should have had it within 2 weeks of the offence, knowing that pay day was going to come around again the next month.

[dangermouse]

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Your example is extreme, but that IS how the justice system works. First offences are always treated differently to repeat offences.

Considering the new rules came into play this season it would be unfair to take into account their previous history. It would be like if the speed limit was changed on a road and the police caught someone speeding, then said that they'd also broken the new limit 3 weeks ago, before the new limit was brought into force, so they were going to be treated as a repeat offender.

The only thing the SPL have got wrong on this is the length of time it took to have the hearing. They should have had it within 2 weeks of the offence, knowing that pay day was going to come around again the next month.

I maybe didn't make my example clear enough. The point I was trying to make was that the courts in this country have specific penalties for specific crimes and as you rightly point out the degree of punishment increases with the frequency of the offence. The SPL, however, introduced a new rule and apart from implementing a transfer embargo have no other visible incremental punishments hence they make it up as they go along.

What should have happened was this new rule will be implemented and the punishments will be 1st offence transfer embargo, 2nd offence some other punishment e.g. points deduction, 3rd offence a more stringent penalty. What the SPL did was introduce a new rule with no clear punishments hence they just make it up as they go along and you can bet your bottom dollar that if Celtic defaulted next month they would probably be treated differently as would Dundee or any other club as there is no consistency.

[lord bunberry]

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A club may have a legitimate excuse for not paying wages on time (eg NatWest ****ing up their payments a couple of months ago). You need an initial hearing to determine how and why the late payment happened.

I realise that and that's when there should be an appeal

[Don Giovanni]

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A club may have a legitimate excuse for not paying wages on time (eg NatWest ****ing up their payments a couple of months ago). You need an initial hearing to determine how and why the late payment happened.

Were the Pars not caught short with wages last Jan / Feb due to the Huns demise?
I'm sure there are other circumstances in which a club may not necessarily be at fault for late payments.
In the Tarts case the shambolic organisation and reliance on overseas funding of the club appears very much to be the cause of the delay. There is no third party to blame and whilst last season's misdemeanors are inadmissible (as the rule did not yet exist) two consecutive delays should invoke punishment - hopefully severe

[Spike Mandela]

The authorities utterances are meaningless. They clearly have no desire to issue any meaningful punishment to ANY club as the backlash from media, club and it's supporters is inevitably aimed at them.

Their greatest desire through the Rangers fiasco and now the Hearts nonsense is to come up with a sanction which sounds like a punishment but isn't really a punishment.

Oldcos sanctions of 10 point penalty, £160k fine for a £16m non payment of PAYE, transfer embargo delayed till after a transfer window and McCoist's suspended ban for bringing game into disrepute(whilst endangering people's life in the process) are all considered punishments on paper but in reality are ineffectual, meaningless non punishments which have no adverse effect on the club.

The authorities will procrastinate and prevaricate until they can wriggle off the hook of issuing Hearts with any effective punishment that will encourage clubs to pay players on time.

It will be fun to see what more imaginative non punishments they can come up with now. My money would be on a suspended small fine being the next one for Hearts.

[Hibbyradge]

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Their greatest desire through the Rangers fiasco and now the Hearts nonsense is to come up with a sanction which sounds like a punishment but isn't really a punishment.

The authorities will procrastinate and prevaricate until they can wriggle off the hook of issuing Hearts with any effective punishment that will encourage clubs to pay players on time.

Why would they do this?

[Spike Mandela]

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Why would they do this?

Because they don't want to do anything to be seen to hurt any of their member clubs. They have no teeth whatsoever as has been seen by the Rangers debacle.

[johnrebus]

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Because they don't want to do anything to be seen to hurt any of their member clubs. They have no teeth whatsoever as has been seen by the Rangers debacle.

They do have teeth, the problem in that they choose to leave them in a glass beside their bed........,

[hibs0666]

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The authorities utterances are meaningless. They clearly have no desire to issue any meaningful punishment to ANY club as the backlash from media, club and it's supporters is inevitably aimed at them.

Their greatest desire through the Rangers fiasco and now the Hearts nonsense is to come up with a sanction which sounds like a punishment but isn't really a punishment.

Oldcos sanctions of 10 point penalty, £160k fine for a £16m non payment of PAYE, transfer embargo delayed till after a transfer window and McCoist's suspended ban for bringing game into disrepute(whilst endangering people's life in the process) are all considered punishments on paper but in reality are ineffectual, meaningless non punishments which have no adverse effect on the club.

The authorities will procrastinate and prevaricate until they can wriggle off the hook of issuing Hearts with any effective punishment that will encourage clubs to pay players on time.

It will be fun to see what more imaginative non punishments they can come up with now. My money would be on a suspended small fine being the next one for Hearts.

Oldco has been sent to the bigots graveyard, the zombies are plying their trade with the stiffs, are subject to a signing ban and are banned from Europe. Short of a public stoning I'm not sure what other punishments you want the football authorities to apply.

[Peevemor]

The "authorites" are, in fact, the clubs in this case. I don't think for a minute that the other SPL clubs, who have all had their own budget cuts to make, will think twice about gving Vlad/Hearts a good slap. The problem is that they're making up the rules as they go along (as Dangermouse says in his post).

Late payment of wages shouldn't be an offense in itself IMHO. For me that's something which could be caused by any number of valid reasons and should be between the players and their employers (and covered by employment law).

We should follow the example of other European leagues where clubs have to submit their budgets and cash flow projections for approval prior to the start of the season. If the figures don't add up, then adjustments have to be made. Any club that deliberately overspends is punished, often by automatic relegation.

Then we have the problem of too many authorities (ie. SPL, Scottish League and SFA). This is what caused most confusion during the hun escapade.

[SloopJB]

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What should have happened was this new rule will be implemented and the punishments will be 1st offence transfer embargo, 2nd offence some other punishment e.g. points deduction, 3rd offence a more stringent penalty.

Appreciate I'm being selective with the quote.
I don't agree with the transfer embargo.

Hearts owner no longer puts money into the club therefore it has to live within its own finances.
It is struggling to do that just now, hence the late wage payment.

If they were to sign another player during the period where they struggle to pay the existing staff it would be like the club sticking two fingers up to the football authorities and their own players.

The SPL have taken that trip hazard away from them, mini administration.

Should be deducted 5 points .

[Spike Mandela]

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Oldco has been sent to the bigots graveyard, the zombies are plying their trade with the stiffs, are subject to a signing ban and are banned from Europe. Short of a public stoning I'm not sure what other punishments you want the football authorities to apply.

The death of oldco, the league they are playing in and the ban from Europe have nothing to do with punishments from the authorities and are cosequences of being liquidated and a new club trying to gain admittance to leagues and European competition. As for the transfer ban it was delayed till after the transfer window closes allowing them to sign more players than any club in the country, really effective NOT

They are top of their league, have shaken off over £100m debt, still own all their assets and will no doubt benefit from league reconstruction. Don't fall for the media outpourings of punishment fatigue and letting them off the hook, they have got away with murder and our authorites have shown that any power they have is useless.

[degenerated]

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Oldco has been sent to the bigots graveyard, the zombies are plying their trade with the stiffs, are subject to a signing ban and are banned from Europe. Short of a public stoning I'm not sure what other punishments you want the football authorities to apply.

The point is though, that wasn't what the spl or sfa wanted to happen. That was the will of the supporters that precipitated that outcome.
The authorities will fudge whatever they can to avoid confrontation, more so when it involves the old firm.
I might be proved to be wrong but my guess is that hearts punishment will be sfa.

[Mikey]

I still don't see how they can be given anything less than a suspended points deduction this time round.

[Hibbyradge]

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I still don't see how they can be given anything less than a suspended points deduction this time round.

I think they'll be given a longer transfer embargo.

[jgl07]

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Remember that there is VAT on football tickets, so of the £20 average entry free less than £17 'belongs' to the club.

But the VAT will not have to be paid until the end of the quarter. If at all!

[Craig_in_Prague]

Flattening the PBS *****hole and building a new Lidl for the locals, IMO should be about the best solution for all concerned. Might be a little harsh, but it's a balanced decision me thinks.

[Peevemor]

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But the VAT will not have to be paid until the end of the quarter. If at all!

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[TrinityHibs]

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Oldco has been sent to the bigots graveyard, the zombies are plying their trade with the stiffs, are subject to a signing ban and are banned from Europe. Short of a public stoniing I'm not sure what other punishments you want the football authorities to apply.

You've answered your question without realisiing it. I think a public stoning should have been implemented. They could also have pushed for a wash with dettol or an electrical supply being attached to each seat in the Broomloan stand which could be varied depending on what songs were being sung. There was also the burning down option but I do appreciate there may have been some environmental impact with this one as the hun hordes would have to gather somewhere else and nobody deserves that!!!

[CB_NO3]

What time is the hearing at?