Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[VickMackie]

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eh....it`s called Spin. Which is what i was trying to point out.

26000 is about 10000+ down on what they have been gettin.

I know what spin is. This isn't spin.

What would you like them to say? A dreadfull crowd of 26,000 turned up? That would be negative spin despite being 2/3 times bigger than almost any other club.

There are certainly questions to be raised to the media and football authorities re rangers. However, this isn't on of them.

[Caversham Green]

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As I understand it, there are two options:-

1. to have the sale reversed ie for the assets to revert to the old company, so that the liquidators can get a better price. That is messy, and could take a long time, but is probably the fairest way.

2. for TRFC to pay the old company a fair price. That would bankrupt TRFC.

I reckon there's a third option - a class action by the creditors against D&P for the difference between the fair price and the amount actually paid. It wouldn't affect Sevco in any way and D&P would likely settle out of court (if the evidence is as compelling as it seems to be) and claim on their PII.

As the creditors are primarily HMRC and Ticketus (unless they are successful in pursuing Wee Craig for their losses) it would depend on their attitude whether they go for it or not.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I reckon there's a third option - a class action by the creditors against D&P for the difference between the fair price and the amount actually paid. It wouldn't affect Sevco in any way and D&P would likely settle out of court (if the evidence is as compelling as it seems to be) and claim on their PII.

As the creditors are primarily HMRC and Ticketus (unless they are successful in pursuing Wee Craig for their losses) it would depend on their attitude whether they go for it or not.

You might be right there. Everyone's a winner, except the PII company The biggest winner of all, of course, would be Green.

Wouldn't go down well with those who want the obliteration of the Huns, though.....

[Caversham Green]

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You might be right there. Everyone's a winner, except the PII company The biggest winner of all, of course, would be Green.

Wouldn't go down well with those who want the obliteration of the Huns, though.....

It certainly wouldn't - maybe we should have a sweep on who's first to blame the SFA/SPL/SFL for favouring the huns.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Loads of good points Mr Giant sir!

No easy answers though :D

Greyskull is partially listed, there is ways around it but not sure the ground it sits on is worth the effort value wise.

Re the training ground ... It's also listed .... for non residential use only, here though, there's some wee "issues" with that. On one hand there's west of Scotland rugby team (I think) just along the road with a training facility that's not listed and were quoted as having a buyer in the wings (2-3 mill talked about).. So sell existing grounds and move into Murray park... Simples..... Add to that, the Murray park listed status is under threat anyway, fields just along the road with the same listing had the listing changed and houses were built.... There's ways and means it seems!

Add to ALL of that we have a director of Sevco a week or so after they bought old co assets for the 5.5 mill quoted in official meeting minutes that those same assets had made the newco worth 50 million plus (link to it somewhere way back in these pages). So 8 or whatever Green paid duff and Duffer + 5.5 = 50 as far as newco bean counters are concerned.... As the guys above have already said this makes the upcoming BDO investigation very interesting!.... There's more to this yet I think :D

A few points need clarification, if I may. (Pedant alert!)

• The main stand at Ibrox has a Category B listing by Historic Scotland (100-170 Edminston Road). This would not prevent development as the rest of the stadium isn't listed. Indeed there have been successful redeveloments of listed buildings elsewhere. All it means is Historic Scotland have a say in what can/can't be done.
• The training ground is not listed, it is zoned, in the Local Development Plan. This only means there is a preference for a type of development, in this case recreational use. This would not prevent developers applying for and getting permission to develop in another way, just that they would need to come up with some over-riding proof of need for such develoment. (Sainsbury's got permission to build on a flood plain by producing flood prevention plans in my neck of the woods)

[Keith_M]

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A few points need clarification, if I may. (Pedant alert!)

• The main stand at Ibrox has a Category B listing by Historic Scotland (100-170 Edminston Road). This would not prevent development as the rest of the stadium isn't listed. Indeed there have been successful redeveloments of listed buildings elsewhere. All it means is Historic Scotland have a say in what can/can't be done.
• The training ground is not listed, it is zoned, in the Local Development Plan. This only means there is a preference for a type of development, in this case recreational use. This would not prevent developers applying for and getting permission to develop in another way, just that they would need to come up with some over-riding proof of need for such develoment. (Sainsbury's got permission to build on a flood plain by producing flood prevention plans in my neck of the woods)

I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

[Just Alf]

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A few points need clarification, if I may. (Pedant alert!)

• The main stand at Ibrox has a Category B listing by Historic Scotland (100-170 Edminston Road). This would not prevent development as the rest of the stadium isn't listed. Indeed there have been successful redeveloments of listed buildings elsewhere. All it means is Historic Scotland have a say in what can/can't be done.
• The training ground is not listed, it is zoned, in the Local Development Plan. This only means there is a preference for a type of development, in this case recreational use. This would not prevent developers applying for and getting permission to develop in another way, just that they would need to come up with some over-riding proof of need for such develoment. (Sainsbury's got permission to build on a flood plain by producing flood prevention plans in my neck of the woods)

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I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

I know! I know! .... totally agree...... the housing near MP I mentioned is on "re-zoned" land


and I did all that on my phone.... on a re-read before posting I just couldn't face going back over it and get it right for you guys!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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As for "respectable", I used to work for BDO..... kinda undermines your opinion of 'em, no?

CWG - I admire your restraint at times on this thread!

[Hibs Giant]

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I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

Both sites could be entirely listed as unesco world heritage graveyards, with no future commercial prospects, and they'd still have gone for too little. Its umpteen hectares of land, deep within one Briton's biggest cities. Only a dangerous fool could argue that a fair price was paid.
Rangers have some very powerful and unscrupulous friends. My great fear is what might go on behind closed doors. Its the principal that pains me. And what it tells us about Scotland in general.

[greenginger]

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I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

The " external facade " bit is just like the new football club that plays at the Govan football stadium. Rangers on the outside but all new and without any history inside.
The only " Listing " for the Club would be amongst those on a creditor black list.

[LeighLoyal]

Regards Sevco on the pitch, another referee blunder (honest mistake) helped them out at 1-1, clear red card offence ignored by ref. Add that to Tumilty's joke whistle at Berwick last week. Green bought assets and a brand name, goodwill according to 'some', he also inherited oldco's goodwill from referees.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

Not just the facade, and remember they added the Club Deck, thus altering a listed building.

Archibald Leitch and Partners, Architects and Engineers, 1928, opened 1.1.29. Tall Renaissance 25-bay red brick facade.
Centrepiece: entrance; ashlar engaged columns and pilasters carry lintel and mutule cornice. Balustrade and 4-light window above set in giant arched panel, divided vertically by plain pilaster strips and horizontally by panels, keystoned. Advanced flanking bays; 1st and 2nd floor windows similarly linked but under pediments. 10 bays to either side with ground floor segmental-headed arcade. Band course. Giant pilasters through 1st and 2nd floors separate windows set in round-headed recesses. Corner pavilions pilastered with bipartite windows at 1st and 2nd linked by panel, under a pediment. Small bipartites on return elevations under mosaic shields with lion rampant inscribed "1872 Ready 1928". E Shield has been altered to "1872 Ready 1981". Mutule main cornice. Central parapet with faience panel "Rangers FC". Parapets over corner pavilions. Multi-paned metal framed windows.
Interior: wood and stained glass doors to vestibule and RFC floor mosaic. 2 Doric columns and 2 pilasters with disc frieze capitals carry landing. Dark wood panelled walls and simple plaster cornices, stair has wrought-iron and wood banister. 1st floor large corniced door to Director's room. Most rooms have wood panelling and some original light fittings. Main stand is 2-tier and steel-framed with a corrugated roof and shield facing pitch.

[joe breezy]

I've got two friends that live in a place that used to be a listed building and football stadium.

It's nice and the former pitch is still a remembrance garden...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsen...dium#section_1

[LeighLoyal]

just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How...6662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

[CropleyWasGod]

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CWG - I admire your restraint at times on this thread!

It comes from years of practice of slowly and deliberately explaining the intricacies of the law to clients, only for them to come back with the answer "why?". I have seen the days when I have battered their heads off my desk in time to the words "because that's the freaking law!!".

[Baldy Foghorn]

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just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How...6662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

That is so crass, and complete ignorance of what happened back then.......

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How...6662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

I get the impression you don't like The Rangers in all their various guises very much, am I right?

[LeighLoyal]

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I get the impression you don't like The Rangers in all their various guises very much, am I right?

I despise what they represent with every fibre I have, so should everyone for the shame they bring on us all. And I wish I'd had £5m to spare in June, would have bought the assets and moth balled the whole rotten lot for good. Just as well for them I'm a few years away from making that kind of cash.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Regards Sevco on the pitch, another referee blunder (honest mistake) helped them out at 1-1, clear red card offence ignored by ref. Add that to Tumilty's joke whistle at Berwick last week. Green bought assets and a brand name, goodwill according to 'some', he also inherited oldco's goodwill from referees.

... 'some' includes the Joint Administrators, who included it in their Report to the Creditors, a report which is now lodged with the Court.

Page 25 of this document. http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpr...-july-2012.pdf

[green glory]

With any luck the results of the SPL investigation into the double contracts will be made known soon. After all the defiance from the Ibroke hordes in recent months, it'll make the title stripping all the more sweet.

Is BDO's appointment not imminent too?

[Northernhibee]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...ic=237304&st=0

I don't know what side to hate more, if Sevco fans are Hertz fans without the bus fare or if the yams are Sevco fans without the bus fare.

This has gotten confusing. Doncaster and Regan must go.

[Dan Sarf]

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just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How...6662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

Apologies if already posted...

Scottish Sun cancels book serialisation after Rangers fans jam switchboard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/03/sun-scotland

n an unprecedented act, The Sun has cancelled a book serialisation the day after blurbing it and running an interview that praised the bravery of its author.
The Scottish edition of the paper had planned to start running extracts today from a book entitled Downfall: how Rangers FC self-destructed by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
But within 24 hours of its lengthy puff announcing its serialisation the paper ran a leading article explaining that it had changed its mind.
The decision followed the jamming of its switchboard as hundreds ofRangers fans called to complain while others took to Twitter. Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain.

[LeighLoyal]

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Apologies if already posted...

Scottish Sun cancels book serialisation after Rangers fans jam switchboard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gree...3/sun-scotland

n an unprecedented act, The Sun has cancelled a book serialisation the day after blurbing it and running an interview that praised the bravery of its author.
The Scottish edition of the paper had planned to start running extracts today from a book entitled Downfall: how Rangers FC self-destructed by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
But within 24 hours of its lengthy puff announcing its serialisation the paper ran a leading article explaining that it had changed its mind.
The decision followed the jamming of its switchboard as hundreds ofRangers fans called to complain while others took to Twitter. Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain.

I saw that. And their excuse is some blog he did months ago comparing hun 'legned' Billy, signing policy, Struth to Shelley's Victor Frankenstein and his creation, the monster, to the Mordor Sevco horde. The punch line is the monster's first words are "WATP!!" Huns, the uber-loyalists Dingwalls and Edgar's of this world, think that is sectarian. Maybe not in good taste, but no mention of churches or Irish politics in it I can see, but it's sectarian because they hate this guy for having the temerity to shine a light on their rancid clubs corruption. The Sun... They described his output as 'tarred with a sectarian brush" and branded the guy as "not a proper and sound journalist". I assume this is slander and they can be taken to court. But just shows how scared they are of the bigot pound. I'm thinking Sevco possibly threatened to remove co-operation if the book was serialised. They are already worried that BDO might unwind their shoddy purchase from Whyte's appointed London henchmen.

[Dan Sarf]

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I saw that. And their excuse is some blog he did months ago comparing hun 'legned' Billy, signing policy, Struth to Shelley's Victor Frankenstein and his creation, the monster, to the Mordor Sevco horde. The punch line is the monster's first words are "WATP!!" Huns, the uber-loyalists Dingwalls and Edgar's of this world, think that is sectarian. Maybe not in good taste, but no mention of churches or Irish politics in it I can see, but it's sectarian because they hate this guy for having the temerity to shine a light on their rancid clubs corruption. The Sun... They described his output as 'tarred with a sectarian brush" and branded the guy as "not a proper and sound journalist". I assume this is slander and they can be taken to court. But just shows how scared they are of the bigot pound. I'm thinking Sevco possibly threatened to remove co-operation if the book was serialised. They are already worried that BDO might unwind their shoddy purchase from Whyte's appointed London henchmen.

According to the Guardian they did: "Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain."

[LeighLoyal]

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According to the Guardian they did: "Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain."

There you have it then, bending to Sevco and their hordes intimidation and making up some baloney to cover it. I think they could regret questioning the guy's journalistic integrity, though. Their hacks wouldn't know integrity if it slapped them in the face.

[The Green Goblin]

When I read this thread, I always end up thinking of that bit at the end of "V for Vendetta" where the guy is shooting and hitting "V" repeatedly and he's getting desperate as V gets closer and he's saying "Die! Die! Why won't you die?" That's how I feel about Hunco.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Nearly 7 hours since the last post, didnae seem right to let it drag behind any longer!

[Newry Hibs]

With the Sun pulling it's serialisation of the book and the other examples of the fundamentatlism shown by the Hun hordes against anyone who dares blaspheme (e.g. Fat Ally demanding to know who was against them on the tribunal) - does anyone know of any decent supporters (excuse the oxymoron) who are actually ashamed / embarassed of what they did and all the tantrums thrown since? Maybe they actually think they got off lightly and are grateful to have a team playing football at all.

[Caversham Green]

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Apologies if already posted...

Scottish Sun cancels book serialisation after Rangers fans jam switchboard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gree...3/sun-scotland

n an unprecedented act, The Sun has cancelled a book serialisation the day after blurbing it and running an interview that praised the bravery of its author.
The Scottish edition of the paper had planned to start running extracts today from a book entitled Downfall: how Rangers FC self-destructed by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
But within 24 hours of its lengthy puff announcing its serialisation the paper ran a leading article explaining that it had changed its mind.
The decision followed the jamming of its switchboard as hundreds ofRangers fans called to complain while others took to Twitter. Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain.

Here's Paul McConville's take on it and other things - long, but worth reading.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ain/#more-2064

[AndyM_1875]

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Here's Paul McConville's take on it and other things - long, but worth reading.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ain/#more-2064

As always Paul McConville is worth reading. There is most definitely a story to be told and a book to be written about the 2012 implosion at Ibrox but this book is not it.

At best PMcG's piece 'The Incubator' was spectacularly ill-advised, at worst it was a nasty piece of out and out hate-mongering and I am not buying the squealing now from his apologists that the piece was some form of 'satire'. Given the current fragility of newspaper sales and the Sun's own history with fan led boycotts in Liverpool, I can't see how the editor could make any other decision than to pull the serialisation.

I also have to question the manner in which a critic of the mainstream media and the Jabba Traynors such as PMcG would so quickly lose his principles as to prostitute himself off to Rupert Murdoch for a quick payday.

There are no winners in this whole sorry affair, just a load of bigots and axe grinding agenda merchants trying to raise their own profile all mixed in together. Meanwhile the creditors of Rangers Football Club plc remain as as I always thought they would.
Absolutely f***ed.