Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Hibs Giant]

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Again This will be investigated by liquidators when they are appointed. The administrators will have to show that they achieved the best possible price.

Surely you can smell a rat? £5.5m? For everything? The land on which Ibrox sits alone must be worth at least twice that.
This is the great injustice of it all. Yet no one seems to have noticed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Surely you can smell a rat? £5.5m? For everything? The land on which Ibrox sits alone must be worth at least twice that.
This is the great injustice of it all. Yet no one seems to have noticed.

I disagree on that point. Of course people have noticed. It's been all over this thread, and presumably every other club's fans board. Where it hasn't been mentioned is in the mainstream media, but that's been one of the features of this saga. It hasn't been the MSM that has been asking the important questions, it has been people like Paul McConville, Alex Thomson and amateur sleuths on fans' boards.... if it wasn't for the upsurge in fans' pressure about what division to put the Huns in, it is very likely that they would have still been in the SPL.

Having said all that, the most important people in this issue over the next few months will be the liquidators.... and, for sure, they WILL have noticed.

One word of caution. The administrators paid a firm of surveyors £25k for their valuation of the properties. That's a professional firm, whose reputation is at risk if they got it as wrong as many people have suggested. Yes, there has been much debate on here about open market, about listed status, about housing value and flood plains and and and..... but at the end of the day the liquidators will be relying on professional opinion.

[LeighLoyal]

Jabba on BBC selling the lie that Gweenie's consortium bought Rangers. They bought ASSETS belonging to the soon to be liquidated club called Rangers FC, they didn't buy Rangers. Get it right, Jabba, you lard ass.

[Kaiser1962]

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Does anyone know why Rangers administrators didn't sell Ibrox and Murray park to a real estate company to pay off the debts? £5.5m doesn't seem to come close.

Those items, plus the car park, were sold for the princely sum of £1.5m.

[Just Alf]

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Surely you can smell a rat? £5.5m? For everything? The land on which Ibrox sits alone must be worth at least twice that.
This is the great injustice of it all. Yet no one seems to have noticed.

Loads of good points Mr Giant sir!

No easy answers though :D

Greyskull is partially listed, there is ways around it but not sure the ground it sits on is worth the effort value wise.

Re the training ground ... It's also listed .... for non residential use only, here though, there's some wee "issues" with that. On one hand there's west of Scotland rugby team (I think) just along the road with a training facility that's not listed and were quoted as having a buyer in the wings (2-3 mill talked about).. So sell existing grounds and move into Murray park... Simples..... Add to that, the Murray park listed status is under threat anyway, fields just along the road with the same listing had the listing changed and houses were built.... There's ways and means it seems!

Add to ALL of that we have a director of Sevco a week or so after they bought old co assets for the 5.5 mill quoted in official meeting minutes that those same assets had made the newco worth 50 million plus (link to it somewhere way back in these pages). So 8 or whatever Green paid duff and Duffer + 5.5 = 50 as far as newco bean counters are concerned.... As the guys above have already said this makes the upcoming BDO investigation very interesting!.... There's more to this yet I think :D

[CropleyWasGod]

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Jabba on BBC selling the lie that Gweenie's consortium bought Rangers. They bought ASSETS belonging to the soon to be liquidated club called Rangers FC, they didn't buy Rangers. Get it right, Jabba, you lard ass.

One of those assets that they bought was the goodwill of Rangers, ie its name. So, in that sense, he is right.

[LeighLoyal]

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One of those assets that they bought was the goodwill of Rangers, ie its name. So, in that sense, he is right.

He didn't buy Rangers Football Club. If he had it wouldn't have been called Sevco Scotland for two months and now "The Rangers." He bought parts of the corpse of a failed institution called Rangers Football Club.

[CropleyWasGod]

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He didn't buy Rangers Football Club. If he had it wouldn't have been called Sevco Scotland for two months and now "The Rangers." He bought parts of the corpse of a failed institution called Rangers Football Club.

He didn't buy the shares of the old company, I agree. But he(through Sevco) did buy the trading name, and in that regard he owns the name.

It's similar to me buying a Macdonalds franchise from a company that has gone into administration. My company might be called CWG Limited, but that company owns the right to the Macdonalds name, so I can call the business Macdonalds. I can change the company name to anything I want, subject to certain restrictions, but my trading name is still Macdonalds.

The reason he couldn't use the Rangers name for his company right away was because it was too similar to the old one, and that is prohibited under Company Law. Once the old company changed its name, then he was at liberty to change it to TRFC.

It's all on the Companies House website.

[Jim44]

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Again This will be investigated by liquidators when they are appointed. The administrators will have to show that they achieved the best possible price.

What happens if it turns out the administrators did not achieve the best possiblle price?

[LeighLoyal]

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What happens if it turns out the administrators did not achieve the best possiblle price?

The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.


And no, he didn't buy Rangers Football Club. He bought assets and brand rights. Rangers FC is in the hands of BDO, let's hope they do the decent thing and get the creditors justice.

[CropleyWasGod]

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What happens if it turns out the administrators did not achieve the best possiblle price?

As I understand it, there are two options:-

1. to have the sale reversed ie for the assets to revert to the old company, so that the liquidators can get a better price. That is messy, and could take a long time, but is probably the fairest way.

2. for TRFC to pay the old company a fair price. That would bankrupt TRFC.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.


And no, he didn't buy Rangers Football Club. He bought assets and brand rights. Rangers FC is in the hands of BDO, let's hope they do the decent thing and get the creditors justice.

Rangers FC is not in the hands of BDO. They haven't been appointed yet.

As for the "line of defence" jibe, there is no need. All I am doing is setting out the legal process that has happened, and is likely to happen.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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2. for TRFC to pay the old company a fair price. That would bankrupt TRFC.

i could get fair excited at the thought of that :

[Kaiser1962]

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The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.

Thats unfair.

Whilst I agree that the sum realised is at odds with any reasonable, IMO, valuation of the companies assetts CWG (and the other accounts guys) are only communicationg the process that must be gone through.

Whilst the outcome of said process may appear to some to be pre determined I would point out that most, if not all, decisions reached thus far have contrasted sharply with Charles Green's desired outcome.

[The Green Goblin]

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The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.

There you go again.... Oh dear.

I for one am just very grateful that a poster like Cropley can be bothered to put up many posts in this thread which make it easier for people like myself to follow what's going on.

You came out of your last few bashes at him on this thread looking a wee bit foolish. Why keep having wee digs like that? There's no need for it.

[Seveno]

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The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.


And no, he didn't buy Rangers Football Club. He bought assets and brand rights. Rangers FC is in the hands of BDO, let's hope they do the decent thing and get the creditors justice.

Not again ! Please take your petty little vendetta against CWG into your smallest room and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[LeighLoyal]

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There you go again.... Oh dear.

I for one am just very grateful that a poster like Cropley can be bothered to put up many posts in this thread which make it easier for people like myself to follow what's going on.

You came out of your last few bashes at him on this thread looking a wee bit foolish. Why keep having wee digs like that? There's no need for it.

You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

[LeighLoyal]

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Not again ! Please take your petty little vendetta against CWG into your smallest room and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Cheers mate. I won't dare contradict CWG again, now I know he's a holy relic on HN. Thanks. Hope you sleep okay now I will avoid any critiques.

[CropleyWasGod]

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You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

No they are not. They are still in administration. Exhibit A.... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e6...59/compdetails

And the term you are looking for is "gratuitous alienation".

As for "respectable", I used to work for BDO..... kinda undermines your opinion of 'em, no?

[Nuitdelune]

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No they are not. They are still in administration. Exhibit A.... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e6...59/compdetails

And the term you are looking for is "gratuitous alienation".

Though possibly more of an unfair preference than one of those--not that I am wanting to interrupt!

[Tynie01011973]

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One of those assets that they bought was the goodwill of Rangers, ie its name. So, in that sense, he is right.

Sorry, but since when can 'goodwill; be classed as an 'asset' ?

An asset is something tangible - ie. ground, training facilities NOT how the club may be perceived OR history [50+ titles]

[CropleyWasGod]

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Sorry, but since when can 'goodwill; be classed as an 'asset' ?

An asset is something tangible - ie. ground, training facilities NOT how the club may be perceived OR history [50+ titles]

I'm not a fan of Wikipedia, but the first line of this link defines it pretty well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwill_(accounting)

Going back to my earlier post (you were paying attention weren't you? ), arguably the most valuable asset that Macdonalds has is its Goodwill.

[Kaiser1962]

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Sorry, but since when can 'goodwill; be classed as an 'asset' ?

An asset is something tangible - ie. ground, training facilities NOT how the club may be perceived OR history [50+ titles]

Its a term from the Black Art of Accountants that is widely used when a business changes hands. In this instance Sevco's predecessors left them a customer base of about 40k Orc's. Those 40k orcs were only worth a quid if I remember correctly.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Its a term from the Black Art of Accountants that is widely used when a business changes hands. In this instance Sevco's predecessors left them a customer base of about 40k Orc's. Those 40k orcs were only worth a quid if I remember correctly.

...only because HMRC doesn't recognise anything less than £1.

[Just Alf]

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You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

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No they are not. They are still in administration. Exhibit A.... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e6...59/compdetails

And the term you are looking for is "gratuitous alienation".

As for "respectable", I used to work for BDO..... kinda undermines your opinion of 'em, no?

So apart from a "timing" issue, you guys are both saying the same thing.... this feels like one of me and the millstone's arguments then!

[CropleyWasGod]

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So apart from a "timing" issue, you guys are both saying the same thing.... this feels like one of me and the millstone's arguments then!

Not at all. I may be a relic, but I'd baulk at the use of the word "holy".

[Mikey]

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The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.

Are you ok?

[Just Alf]

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Not at all. I may be a relic, but I'd baulk at the use of the word "holy".

[The Green Goblin]

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You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

Okay, but you ignored my question, which was the whole point of my post: why the digs at other posters?

[Kaiser1962]

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...only because HMRC doesn't recognise anything less than £1.

Then if BDO are going to look at whether the heritable properties were undervalued then it is only fair that they revisit the sale of goodwill as I feel sure that Chuckie may well be due a refund for this transaction.