Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[fife hfc]

Yes legally they are due money but can they afford to take legal action if the Sfa/SPl do the dirty on them and with hold it for a significant period?

My gripe is not with them its with the blackmailers. Stenhousemuir etc are the ones who are going to suffer most from the Spl/ SFAs lack of courage.

[StevieC]

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Yes legally they are due money but can they afford to take legal action if the Sfa/SPl do the dirty on them and with hold it for a significant period?

Individually some may struggle, but collectively I couldn't see it being a problem.

[greenginger]

If Sevco F C are the cash - cow they are claimed to be why don't the SFL hang on to them for a few years.

Put them into SPL 1 if they must but introduce a few new rules to the SFL set-up.

Sectarian Singing by supporters - 15 point penalty

Manager arguing with Officials - 5 point penalty

Being plain Obnoxious - 3 point penalty



These rules could ensure the survival of the SFL for the next few years by retaining Sevco F C and allow the SPL to return to a footballing competition.

[RyeSloan]

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Can someone tell me why the broadcasters are smart enough to insert clauses or agree to terms that name two specific clubs as permanently part of the top tier and we have numpties in charge of sporting governance who don't see a problem with this picture....


Who the f**** agreed and voted on those deals sold Scottish football down the river

Imagine if the BBC walked away from Wimbledon if the top seeds didn't get through

Jesus wept

Have they though? Have we seen ANY confirmation that the deal due to run to the end of the coming season has any such clause?

There has also been speculation about a re-negotiation on the extension to that deal. But again nothing confirmed from either party and therefore any loss associated with that re-negotiation can only be estimated.

The figures used in the SPL/SFA presentation seem to assume a TOTAL loss of TV revenue. I fail to see the logic in that assumption and would suggest that either ESPN or the BBC would be prepared to take weekly live Scottish Football albeit maybe at a reduced sum.

There is also the total lack of vision in terms of increasing the attraction of the league through a proper restructuring of the SFA/SPL/SFL which would surely have as it's central tenant a more competitive top league. This could quite easily be considered as a more attractive proposal to broadcasters and could outweigh any loss they see in the loss of Rangers

In summary the presentations given are clearly biased in terms of ramping up the lost revenue figures, have done nothing to confirm the loses will be immediate (i.e there is x y and z clauses in the current contract that the broadcasters have informed us they will invoke) and in no way look at alternative avenues of revenue or mitigation of loss. Total and absolute sham and the more you hear of the details the more you know it stinks.

[Saorsa]

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There is also the total lack of vision in terms of increasing the attraction of the league through a proper restructuring of the SFA/SPL/SFL which would surely have as it's central tenant a more competitive top league.

There is a total lack of vision period, the only vision these ***** have is OF 1 & 2 again as quickly as possible and **** everybody else. They've nae interest in a competitive league.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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I don't think the SFL have specified if the vote on SFL3 is also taking place on the 13th. Can they seriously adjourn again in the event if a no vote for SFL1?

As I posted previously, Newco doesn't meet the criteria for an SFA license. Any duscussions on where they will play should be academic unless the SFA fails to apply it's own rules AGAIN. They didn't meet the financial criteria last year. Will the SFA repeat the error?

I presume this goes towards the school of thought that the newco should be denied entry to the SFL at any level. I'm sure the rules governing an SFA license could be used as a stumbling block to that.

There is an old saying ... Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools.

FWIW ... I detest the apparent move by the SPL to bully the SFL clubs into allowing a newco into the first division by threatening to withhold money the SFL is due ..... that is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. It should be up to the SFL with no pressure from outside to decide what league to admit them to. If its the 3rd division then fine.

But to put a block on a license is bonkers.

As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

[lucky]

I can understand the financial pressure clubs are under but Rangers should go into division 3. If other clubs can't afford this then they should face similar fate as Rangers. If tv pulls the plug on Scottish football then its up to us to pull the plug on them. Murdoch and his Sky organization have held to much away over UK society for too long. It's up to us as fans to balance the threat back in favor or our game

[DH1875]

How come Dundee aren't allowed to vote but Rangers where . Another case of 1 rule for them and 1 rule for the rest of us.

[bighairyfaeleith]

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[/B]
I presume this goes towards the school of thought that the newco should be denied entry to the SFL at any level. I'm sure the rules governing an SFA license could be used as a stumbling block to that.

There is an old saying ... Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools.

FWIW ... I detest the apparent move by the SPL to bully the SFL clubs into allowing a newco into the first division by threatening to withhold money the SFL is due ..... that is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. It should be up to the SFL with no pressure from outside to decide what league to admit them to. If its the 3rd division then fine.

But to put a block on a license is bonkers.

As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

I agree, however rather than making out like div3 is terrible and div 1 would be better, the SFA should be pointing out that sevco are getting a good deal just by getting back into a professional league, not pushing for them to get into our second top league

[Saorsa]

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1 rule for them and 1 rule for the rest of us.

That's already patently obvious tae anybody, even blind Harry. And if there isnae a rule tae suit them yet, then they'll just make one up.

[EH6 Hibby]

I personally think that Kilmarnock knew their yes vote was worthless and would anger their fans, and Stenhousemuir know fine well that Rangers are not going to get into division 1, so both teams decided not to vote against Rangers in the hope that if they fail to get into division 3 which is looking more and more likely, the Rangers fans with no team to watch will go along to watch the only teams not to vote against them.

[rcarter1]

In summary the presentations given are clearly biased in terms of ramping up the lost revenue figures, have done nothing to confirm the loses will be immediate (i.e there is x y and z clauses in the current contract that the broadcasters have informed us they will invoke) and in no way look at alternative avenues of revenue or mitigation of loss. Total and absolute sham and the more you hear of the details the more you know it stinks.[/QUOTE]

Quite right, every time Im tempted to think that Div 1 might be for the best, I think about how the fact that our 'leaders' have not even suggested any solution to lost revenue other than Sevco Div1. Until the exact details of what will happen, to whom, why, and what can be done to avert it, were not in a position to judge this properly. Ive said it before, a mortgage type loan by individual clubs or the SPL collectively could smooth the pain of lost revenue should Sevco go to Div 3. Some clubs are basically on the brink regardless, and should probably be dealing with administration or at least mass player exodus to deal with those debts.

On the other hand, we could let Sevco into the SPL (whoops...), with a 25 point penalty for three seasons, and a hefty fine to be paid to all SPL clubs over a number of years (Like a few million/year for the number of years that Rangers were eventually found cheating).

Regardless of ANYTHING, Doncaster and probably Regan need to go - to be replaced by people who amongst other things know how to sign a contract..

[RyeSloan]

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[/B] As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

But it's not Rangers. Rangers are soon to be liquidated. The right to play in the SPL and their SFA membership goes with them.

As someone pointed out there is no punishment here it is merely a consequence of Rangers going bust.

The newco may be taking on some of Rangers old assets but in a football and legal sense they are a new entity therefore they must be treated as one. No punishment, no retribution simply following the logical order of a team going out of business.

It transpires however the SPL and the SFA are now telling us they have built the whole of Scottish football on top of two teams and the consequence of one of those teams being removed will bring the whole house of cards down....this may or may not be true but even if it is the question surely has to be, now that we are in possession of the facts, why would anyone wish to reassemble the house of cards when that clearly implies the rest of Scottish football will be treated differently to the two 'that matter'. For the house of cards to remain stable it will necessitate an institutionalised favouritism to two teams to ensure they remain bigger and better than any other team and any threat to that would be dealt with in whatever manner was required

This is what Reagan is telling us and that's why his position and his association can no longer be considered fit to oversee the sport. Their desire to save the house of cards and their inability to understand why supporters and clubs are indeed prepared to face the consequences of starting again has brought the whole game into disrepute and they should go now before they cause any more damage (if that’s even possible)

[Waxy]

Any SFL team which votes for Sevco into div 1 are going against their own principles and are all thats wrong with Scottish football.
Blatent cash for votes campaign by what are laughingly meant to be our leaders.

If only they followed the rules Scottish football (after a small period of hardship)could flourish better than ever before for many many years.
But our Blind leaders have not and are Killing our game.

Very sinister goings on.

[vanNISHtelroy]

Statement from the Killie Trust:

The Killie Trust would like to disassociate themselves from the actions of the Kilmarnock Football Club Chairman at the SPL meeting on Wednesday. It was important that we, as a club, were seen to be taking a moral stance as opposed to acting in self interest, and it is felt that we have been misrepresented by our majority shareholder and sole board member in this case. His refusal to vote was clearly not in the best long term interests of the club as it cast a shadow of doubt over our own integrity in this sorry affair.

We hosted an open meeting in conjunction with our Supporters Association last week which Michael Johnston attended and a unanimous show of hands from the floor should have left him in no doubt that Kilmarnock supporters were not in favour of any new club being allowed entry directly into the top division based purely on financial reasons. This was also backed up by various on line polls which indicated that 98% of those whom voted were also of the same mind, and we are more than certain that the "consultation", which the club paid for and then apparently decided not to act upon, would have reflected the same; although the results of said "consultation" were kept out of the public domain and not made available to those whom voted.

The decision taken by the SPL is indeed a momentous one and we hope that the fans of the clubs affected can now concentrate on getting behind their teams and ensuring that the embarrassing scare-mongering predictions of Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, who should be considering their own positions at this time, do not come to fruition. If ever it was more clear that we need only one governing body for a country our size it is now. We sympathise with all football fans out there who have been victims of so-called business men that have systematically taken their club apart and we hope that such supporters will have a major say in how their club is run from here on in. The only good thing to come out of all this has been the refreshing way in which most clubs have responded to the wishes of their fan base and we hope that the clubs in the SFL will respond in a similar fashion and not be bullied into accepting change they do not want, when it comes to doing the right thing there can be no compromise.

We have the opportunity over the coming season to start getting our house in order and we hope that Supporters Direct and fans in general will be given a say in the direction that Scottish football will take. The major stake-holders in our game cannot and will not be ignored any longer because without the fans there would be no clubs and the time has come for us to reclaim our place at the table and ensure that commercial greed and self interest no longer dictate the decisions that have to be made. We are all in this together and together we can get Scottish football back on its feet, from the bottom division to the top, anything less is simply unacceptable.

[stokesmessiah]

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Statement from the Killie Trust:

Great statement. I feel sorry for the Killie fans as they truly have a walloper for a chairman.

[Onion]

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Sevco didn't vote. RFC voted ...they are not in liquidation and held an SPL share

Like a guy who has just got fired for incompetence, choosing his replacement. Only in Scotland

[grunt]

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The SPL are obligated tae pay that money from what money they have. If I were running any of those clubs I'd be seeking legal advice, no giving in tae their threats and blackmail.

Indeed. And furthermore, I'd want to see these mythical broadcasting agreements. I don't believe a word uttered by Doncaster or Regan, and I would want documentary evidence of what would happen to the deals in the event of no Sevco. Actually, when I think about it, Rangers aren't Rangers anymore, so legally the broadcasting agreement would be dead anyway. If that's what it says, which I'm far from sure of. Like Dan, I'd also be encouraging an SFL-wide investment into a legal review of the settlement agreement to prove that the SPL can just decide not to pay it if they don't have any spare cash. I've never seen a contract yet that says you don't pay it if you can't afford it.

[grunt]

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The impact on the SPL clubs is well documented with a number of them admitting they would move to administration very quickly as their debts to the banks in particular could not be serviced.

Looks to me as though Stenny have bought the whole Regan / Doncaster story, hook line and sinker.

[ronaldo7]

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Statement from the Killie Trust:

Well done the Killie Trust. More power to your elbow.

[At The Edge]

Fat Ally wants Sevco to start their new life in Division 3
link to bbc

[theonlywayisup]

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A lot of the 11 were before the alleged financial meltdown was laid out and in particular before the SFL clubs were threatened with the non-payment of the SPL settlement. Based on statements since then I would say we have:

Defo No: Raith, Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath, Morton

Lean No: Clyde, Falkirk, Livingston

Defo Yes: Stenhousemuir

Lean Yes: Hamilton, Partick

Airdrie United to abstain

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/a...t-of-interest/

Also thought Partick were a defo NO - "Partick reiterated that parachuting Rangers into Division One was “clearly unacceptable” and said that a “radical overhaul” of the game was needed."

[ekhibee]

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Airdrie United to abstain

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/a...t-of-interest/

Also thought Partick were a defo NO - "Partick reiterated that parachuting Rangers into Division One was “clearly unacceptable” and said that a “radical overhaul” of the game was needed."

Don't think I need many more excuses to despise Airdrie, but in this particular case, the clubs who are in a promotion posible scenario are in an awkward position. I still hate Airdrie though.

[Onion]

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Fat Ally wants Sevco to start their new life in Division 3
link to bbc

Love this bit from AM .....

"Our good friends at Celtic across the city issued a statement that stated that integrity was of paramount importance to Scottish football and we totally agree with that, and I would imagine the vast majority of all SPL chairmen agree with that statement."

Just 48 hours ago, he and RFC voted YES to placing Newco straight into the SPL - where's your integrity in that ? If integrity is of paramount importance, why did RFC and Newco not volunteer to go straight into Div 3 weeks ago ? If integrity is key, why are you still working for a thieving, cheating, manipulating institution who has basically stolen money from the general public, small businesses and other football club who have tried to run their affairs properly ? McCoist should't use words he doesn't understand - it just makes him look like a Silly Billy Boy.

[HFC 0-7]

What is strange about the stenhouse statement is that in it they say the financial amounts that could be lost if rangers are not in div 1 have been verified by other bodies. In then goes on to talk about IF a clause is in the contracts of sky etc that would allow them to cancel. Doncaster, regan etc should know if there is a clause, they must have signed them!

[joe breezy]

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[/B]
I presume this goes towards the school of thought that the newco should be denied entry to the SFL at any level. I'm sure the rules governing an SFA license could be used as a stumbling block to that.

There is an old saying ... Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools.

FWIW ... I detest the apparent move by the SPL to bully the SFL clubs into allowing a newco into the first division by threatening to withhold money the SFL is due ..... that is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. It should be up to the SFL with no pressure from outside to decide what league to admit them to. If its the 3rd division then fine.

But to put a block on a license is bonkers.

As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

It's not a punishment it's a consequence of pending liquidation

Please stop talking hunspeak

[Onion]

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Great statement. I feel sorry for the Killie fans as they truly have a walloper for a chairman.

They need to get shot of that guy so they can be be welcomed back into the fold.

[Eyrie]

"Our good friends at Celtic across the city"

No surprises there.

[Magnifique]

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It really is. People are so thick they just go along with whatever Sky Sports tell them. It's the same mindset that sees Scottish fans now 'supporting' English clubs. Utterly pathetic.

IF NEwco get into anything other than Div 3 I shall be doing exactly that I will buy a season ticket for St Jamesies immediately

[Dashing Bob S]

In a way, Regan, Doncaster etc have been successful, in that, by their refusal to implement their own rules, they have made this about a lot more than Rangers. I think that whatever happens at RFC, many fans of other clubs (and probably a lot of RFC fans too, tbh) won't be back until those comedians are removed from office, and replaced with men who have the spine to enforce the rules of sporting association, and the vision to develop the game in this country.