Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[lapsedhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet. There's over on pieandbovril that Chick Dung's contract hasn't been renewed with the BBC. Probably due to the fact he's made an Emily Blunt of the whole sorry/ funny Rangers saga.

Quote from pieandbovril:


Friedrich Engels
Yesterday, 22:53
i hope this is true, i want Chick to cry so hard milk comes out his nose.

Har Har!

Cue Hun forums referring to BBC from now on as timmyridden.

[The Sea-gull]

Now that it looks like they have no chance of getting in the SPL we are getting Raith and Falkirk coming out and saying they will not vote them into the first division. I had never thought about it from this angle but a Newco Rangers would almost be assured promotion at the first attempt from the first division so any team voting them in would be effectively kissing good bye to their promotion hopes for the season though getting a couple of big gates in return. They'd get the big gates in two years if RFC end up in the third division so no real incentive there to turn down a chance of SPL football for a season.

Looking at the first division next season, it is one of these leagues where I would say almost every club apart from maybe Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath could put a reasonable case forward for a promotion chance. So maybe the Newco won't get many votes there either.

Anyone else think the whole thing is maybe a stitch up though?

Perhaps it has been agreed behind the scenes with the SPL, SFL and Sky that Rangers will go into Div 1. This way the SPL clubs probably only lose Rangers for a season but it allows them to look good in front of their fans with statements about integrity etc thus avoiding boycotts.

The SFL could be compensated by the SPL and Sky for effectively losing the chance of winning the title for one season by getting a TV deal for a season and a play off place for the second placed team. Sky lose out on old firm games probably only for a season but minimise the loss of Rangers supporting subscribers by showing their first division games by way of a one season TV deal with the first division.

I'm not saying this is happening or will happen but won't be surprised if some or all of it comes true.

I also feel the much talked about "SPL 2" is on the way, accelerated by the Rangers thing, where a TV deal for both divisions comes in and a play off between 2nd bottom SPL and 2nd top is put in place.

Hope they don't rush through any plans to reduce the size of the league to a league of 10 as at this moment in time we could do with out up to three teams being relegated from the SPL until we sort ourselves out a bit.

[InchHibby]

Now that Raith and Falkirk are to vote against the cheats entering the First Division, hope that the remainder do the same and ditto Division Three.

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Now that it looks like they have no chance of getting in the SPL we are getting Raith and Falkirk coming out and saying they will not vote them into the first division. I had never thought about it from this angle but a Newco Rangers would almost be assured promotion at the first attempt from the first division so any team voting them in would be effectively kissing good bye to their promotion hopes for the season though getting a couple of big gates in return. They'd get the big gates in two years if RFC end up in the third division so no real incentive there to turn down a chance of SPL football for a season.

Looking at the first division next season, it is one of these leagues where I would say almost every club apart from maybe Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath could put a reasonable case forward for a promotion chance. So maybe the Newco won't get many votes there either.

Anyone else think the whole thing is maybe a stitch up though?

Perhaps it has been agreed behind the scenes with the SPL, SFL and Sky that Rangers will go into Div 1. This way the SPL clubs probably only lose Rangers for a season but it allows them to look good in front of their fans with statements about integrity etc thus avoiding boycotts.

The SFL could be compensated by the SPL and Sky for effectively losing the chance of winning the title for one season by getting a TV deal for a season and a play off place for the second placed team. Sky lose out on old firm games probably only for a season but minimise the loss of Rangers supporting subscribers by showing their first division games by way of a one season TV deal with the first division.

I'm not saying this is happening or will happen but won't be surprised if some or all of it comes true.

I also feel the much talked about "SPL 2" is on the way, accelerated by the Rangers thing, where a TV deal for both divisions comes in and a play off between 2nd bottom SPL and 2nd top is put in place.

Hope they don't rush through any plans to reduce the size of the league to a league of 10 as at this moment in time we could do with out up to three teams being relegated from the SPL until we sort ourselves out a bit.

I would imagine this is what was discussed at the six hour hastily arranged meeting between the SFA, SPL and SFL. Now however Regan, Doncaster and especially David Longmuir have to persuade enough SFL clubs to parachute newco into second tier of any reconstruction. No easy task.

[ancient hibee]

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

[Steve20]

They won't get into the First Division. It'll be the Third Division, if any.

[ScottB]

Personally this would be my plan...

This season we are out of time as it is, the teams moving up are going to struggle to react in time, but so be it. As soon as possible a vote among the SFL clubs should be held. At this stage I would argue that 'Rangers' are not in a state to play in any league and it is starting to look like the SFL clubs know this too.

So let's assume 'Rangers' are out of it and another team takes the empty slot, so for our purposes lets say Spartans. The season carries on as normal.

For season 2013/14 league reconstruction kicks in, the leagues merge together, a 16 team top league, with two 14 team leagues below it, giving room for 2 more clubs to join the lowest division, which could well include new Rangers or they could find themselves in whatever pyramid structure that is created to exist below that. In addition the League Cup is reformated to include an initial regional group stage to increase the number of derby matches for media interest.

[HibsMax]

Maybe they could be punted to the First with no chance of promotion for a minimum of X years i.e., even if they win the league they are not allowed back into the SPL until they have served their time. That would still give Rangers a chance at both cups, just not chance of playing in the top flight for a couple of seasons.

[LancashireHibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

The Division Three clubs would make a shedful, it would just be a case of an increased police bill (albeit a sizeable one) and making the games all-ticketing, but I'm sure they'd be happy to do the extra work for what in some cases would probably be a gate ten times their average attendance. This has already occured in the English non-league when Chester/Halifax/FC United/AFC Wimbledon have taken thousands to little non-league grounds (or at least neighbouring pro stadiums) so I'm sure there's a way around it. Little difference to being drawn at home to either of the bigot brothers in the cup.

[ScottB]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

The First Division clubs that have spoken publicly seem pretty clear about not wanting them...

[jgl07]

What is the voting structure in the SFL? Is it one vote per club irrespective of Division?

Before the SPL breakaway, it used to be something like 4 votes for Premier Division clubs, 3 for First Division, etc.

[Dashing Bob S]

They ripped of Millwall and sang 'no one likes us, we don't care.'

Well, from what I've been reading on Follow Follow, they lied about the second part of that statement.

I think it's now becoming increasingly hard to envisage any place for this much-hated institution at any level of the game, anywhere. Their arrogant attitude down the years, and that of their snivelling toadies in the media and football administration has hardened attitudes against them.

[Dashing Bob S]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Personally this would be my plan...

This season we are out of time as it is, the teams moving up are going to struggle to react in time, but so be it. As soon as possible a vote among the SFL clubs should be held. At this stage I would argue that 'Rangers' are not in a state to play in any league and it is starting to look like the SFL clubs know this too.

So let's assume 'Rangers' are out of it and another team takes the empty slot, so for our purposes lets say Spartans. The season carries on as normal.

For season 2013/14 league reconstruction kicks in, the leagues merge together, a 16 team top league, with two 14 team leagues below it, giving room for 2 more clubs to join the lowest division, which could well include new Rangers or they could find themselves in whatever pyramid structure that is created to exist below that. In addition the League Cup is reformated to include an initial regional group stage to increase the number of derby matches for media interest.

The way things are stacking up, the scenario you've just outlined seems to be shaping up as the most likely. I would argue that there are just too many obstacles in place to see Rangers field a club at any level of the Scottish game for the 2012-13 season. Scottish Football does need re-organised radically, but that should be done in a considered way, and not to be the salvation of one club. The strength of feeling of the other supporters shows this.

The biggest fear for Rangers is being absent for a season and that season shows no discernible decrease in the number of fans attending football games in Scotland, ie: that more supporters lost to the game return as the vile bigots are absent, or that the glory hunting element of the Hun support turn to their local teams.

[jgl07]

Rangers team list at present:

Allan McGonner
Tata Papac
Free Wallace
Dorin Gone
Adios Bocanegra
Steven Whitcontract
Release McCabe
Gone Aluko
Leave Davis
Steven Naicontract
Solong Kerkhar
Jamie Less

(Lifted from Blue moon)

[McSwanky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Rangers team list at present:

Allan McGonner
Tata Papac
Free Wallace
Dorin Gone
Adios Bocanegra
Steven Whitcontract
Release McCabe
Gone Aluko
Leave Davis
Steven Naicontract
Solong Kerkhar
Jamie Less

(Lifted from Blue moon)

[McSwanky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Division Three clubs would make a shedful, it would just be a case of an increased police bill (albeit a sizeable one) and making the games all-ticketing, but I'm sure they'd be happy to do the extra work for what in some cases would probably be a gate ten times their average attendance. This has already occured in the English non-league when Chester/Halifax/FC United/AFC Wimbledon have taken thousands to little non-league grounds (or at least neighbouring pro stadiums) so I'm sure there's a way around it. Little difference to being drawn at home to either of the bigot brothers in the cup.

Question: Practically, how will they make a shedful? I honestly can't see how that would be the case.

[rcarter1]

Given the continuing bad news for Rangers why didn't they just -

Take a 100,000,000 mortgage over 25 years at 5% before going into administration.
This would have resulted in yearly payments of £7,000,000 from a turnover of between 40 and 60 million. Leaving 33-53 million turnover to run the club. Apart from the difficulty in arranging a mortgage of such a size, the only reason they wouldn't do this is that they didn't want to lose ground on Celtic, as they would still be streets ahead of the rest of us..

Selfish fools that they are we all now have to pay for their absence!

[LancashireHibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Question: Practically, how will they make a shedful? I honestly can't see how that would be the case.

Because clubs who are used to having 400 fans a week will get a gate of 4,000, so will make substantially more than x number of home games. Even with the associated costs of hosting a crowd that size, profit certainly outweighs loss.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I know it's been said elsewhere, but it's worth repeating.

There is a vacancy in the Scottish Leagues following the demise of one team. Should those inheriting the mantle of that team be given preference over other clubs that have been trying to get into the league for years.

Either Sevco are the same thing as the defunct Rangers FC, with all its financial problems, or they are a brand new club that has to prove its worth on matters like sporting integrity and financial prudence. They cannot be both.

Either way their is no compelling argument for allowing them into the league in front of the likes of Spartans, who have at least can point to evidence that they can run a football club.

Sod this start in Division 3 stuff, either they buy out an existing club the way Airdrie did, or they get down and build something up from the roots. They might like to do what Gretna did and get a place in one of the English regional leagues. It's a golden opportunity for fans of Rangers (No More) to shape their destiny and go where they have always wanted.

[GordonHFC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

And where do we think this dosh is coming from ?

It wont be NewCo as they don't have 2 beans to rub together and it won't be the SPL because each club will be losing money without der hun.

[Just Alf]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Am I correct in saying that the transfer embargo is still in place? I know the CoS referred it back to the appellate tribunal but they haven't reconvened to decide their fate yet have they? So SEVCO might end up getting a spot in SFL3 but with a bunch of under 18's and possible further punishment (expulsion from Scottish cup etc)

That's a good question

If the "club" is intact but within a new holding company then 100% they can't sign anyone until their football debts have been paid (and Rapid V are kicking up at the 1 million they're due!)

If the "club" is all "new and improved" then I don't think that applies.... Although as they're not technically registered in a league at the mo any player signing for them won't be eligible to play anywhere as they won't be personally registered.

In direct answer to the question tho, the 1 year embargo will be on hold just now

[GordonHFC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What is the voting structure in the SFL? Is it one vote per club irrespective of Division?

Before the SPL breakaway, it used to be something like 4 votes for Premier Division clubs, 3 for First Division, etc.

I read somewhere that they needed 22 of the 29 teams to vote yes or they dont get in.

Partick, Falkirk and Raith Rovers have intimated NO so if you add the 5 teams that Rangers tried to shaft in the 1960's then their goose is cooked.

[horseflesh]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe they could be punted to the First with no chance of promotion for a minimum of X years i.e., even if they win the league they are not allowed back into the SPL until they have served their time. That would still give Rangers a chance at both cups, just not chance of playing in the top flight for a couple of seasons.

It will be all the teams in the SFL that get to vote on this issue not just the 1st division teams, cant really see any possibility of a carve up and Div 3 looks certain.
On the bright side - at least any money Rangers bring to a league will be spread right throughout Scottish football

[Spike Mandela]

Tee hee

https://twitter.com/hmrcgovuk/status/217627480108965888

[yekimevol]

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

[whiskyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

Let's hope so .........good riddance to bad rubbish


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?txgdiu

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

And who is going to step aside to let them in?

[HH81]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

They wont get in league 2, it would have to be lower than conf north

[EdinMike]

They wouldn't be able to just waltz into League 2, there would be uproars down south as well if that happened. I really think they are buggered now, it seems now that no one wants them or to be associated with them. And for good reason...How did that song go !?

"We are Rangers, super Rangers ! No one likes us we don't care"

Bet you wished you cared now huh ?!

[McSwanky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because clubs who are used to having 400 fans a week will get a gate of 4,000, so will make substantially more than x number of home games. Even with the associated costs of hosting a crowd that size, profit certainly outweighs loss.

Taking your figures, an extra 3600 twice a season would give them 7200 extra tickets. Looking at a few teams' web sites (Clyde, Annan, Stirling Albion) they seem to charge a tenner (£9 in Annan's case) for adult entry.

So assuming Sevco fill the stadia with adults (in reality it's likely to be a mix of adults and consessions), they get an extra £72,000 in the one season. Is that a major windfall to those clubs? Agree it's a figure not to be sniffed at, but I don't think it's a deal maker.

As opposed to the usual scenario where the wee teams get a share of the Ibrox gate in a Scottish Cup match, it'd be more like 20,000 tickets at £20 a head (I would imagine) = £400,000.

Taking into account extra policing costs, I'm not sure that it is as much of a sweetener as some people are making out.

(Please note all figures were worked out on the back of a fag packet, and I don't even smoke!)