Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

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He's voting no according to Killie fans

Any link to their forum site ?? Tried killie pies are good but couldn't find it ! Sorry for being lazy !!

[PatHead]

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I have said already that Killie have a higher debt to turnover ratio of any SPL club...they are probably pretty likely to go under unless they can increase income from ST's dramaticaly or restructure debt (banks not really playing that game at the moment)..

They have made themselves a target now where some will boycott no matter how they vote as a NO will be seen as political rather than genuine

...................and yet he talks about adding signings when they have no money.

[joe breezy]

[grunt]

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Killie Statement.............................

Interesting to note that the word "integrity" is not mentioned at all in this statement. And is it not more than a little pathetic to include the phrase, "Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation..."? Does he mean to imply that other SPL clubs ARE to blame? Thank heavens he's not our Chairman.

[joe breezy]

Chic Young will not be renewing his contract at the BBC next season...

From Barcabhoy on Rangers Tax Case

[GordonHFC]

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I like the "mid day tomorrow? Say 12?"

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

As the cast of Grange Hill sang back in the 80's "Just say no"!

[Lungo--Drom]

RAOFL RAOFL :D
These guys have major identity issues. The sad bit is they really mean it :O

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This just gets funnier.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=223968

[robinp]

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I like the "mid day tomorrow? Say 12?"

I prefer the Monty Python style quote, name a time and ill be there, 12, sorry I'm busy then.

[Saorsa]

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Kilmarnock F.C. ‏@killiefanpage
Johnston to vote against newco is the latest Apparently 1500 online consultations have been emailed saying no to newco since release at 9am
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Too late for him IMO. There's a difference between doing the right thing because you want tae and changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side and suffer a double penalty of nae huns and a boycott of other supporters.

[joe breezy]

Stating the obvious but Rangers not playing anywhere 2012 / 2013 is becoming the most likely scenario

Jim Delahunt ‏@JimDelahunt
Thanks to those asking about year out. SPL a NO, SFL a maybe but SFA could suspend for year (min) and we don't know if newco even viable.

[ScottB]

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Stating the obvious but Rangers not playing anywhere 2012 / 2013 is becoming the most likely scenario

Jim Delahunt ‏@JimDelahunt
Thanks to those asking about year out. SPL a NO, SFL a maybe but SFA could suspend for year (min) and we don't know if newco even viable.

This has been my opinion for awhile now, there simply isn't time for them, never mind adding in the many legal challenges, investigations, criminal investigations, Green having no money, no clubs wanting them in their leagues...


As I said a few pages ago, a year out could be the best thing for them. A chance to let the dust settle, the governing bodies to finish their investigations and punishments handed down to the Oldco, the Police and the Revenue to nail those responsible and a chance for some new owners, or the fans themselves to rebuild their club.

Their return could be tied into a restructure for next season onwards adding them to whatever the lowest league is etc.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Theres too much still to be cleared up/investigated, I cannae see them playing anywhere next season either.

[steakbake]

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I like the "mid day tomorrow? Say 12?"

Aye, some folk have jobs.

[monktonharp]

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On a serious note, here's hoping that there'll be a significant reduction in domestic abuse

yeah, the wife kicked **** oot o' me the ither night, acused me o' bein' pished and aw ah hud wis 2 shandies.

[steakbake]

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Chic Young will not be renewing his contract at the BBC next season...

From Barcabhoy on Rangers Tax Case

Well, without Rangers, he's got nothing to offer as a journo. They're all he knows. I mean there is St Mirren allegedly, but they'll not let him sniff the seats there and I doubt they have succulent lamb on their menu.

[MyJo]

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Killie Statement.............................

Shareholders and Season Ticket Holders - Consultation
Dear Shareholder/Season Ticket Holder,

"Rangers Newco" in the SPL

Much has been said and written in recent weeks about “Rangers Newco” and the upcoming SPL General Meeting on 4th July when all twelve clubs (including “Rangers in Administration”) will vote on whether or not the SPL share (or membership) currently held by “Rangers in Administration” may be transferred to “Rangers Newco”. The vote will be decided by an 8 - 4 majority.

Clubs are consulting their stakeholders to varying degrees. I considered holding a public meeting but the logistics of planning and conducting such a meeting highlighted a number of practical difficulties and the alternative of canvassing the views of the club’s shareholders and season ticket holders (2011-12 and 2012-13) by email and letter recommended itself as a means of establishing the carefully considered views of the club’s most important stakeholders based upon an analysis of the relevant facts in a non-contentious environment - your own home.

Contrary to some media reports, I have not committed our club to supporting “Rangers Newco”. For a more balanced report of my views as at 22nd May, see the Daily Telegraph article by Roddy Forsyth - copy annexed. This interview preceded the Panorama expose regarding the use of EBT’s by “Rangers Oldco” as a means of supplementing players’ wages in an illegal manner in breach of SFA and SPL rules. There then followed an appeal to the Court of Session by “Rangers in Administration” contrary to the tenet that clubs should not invoke civil courts to deal with football sanctions, a principle strongly advocated by FIFA and UEFA. It must be said that “Rangers Oldco” and “Rangers in Administration” have not done Rangers Football Club any favours in terms of gaining support for “Rangers Newco” in its ambition to be accepted as a member of the SPL on 4th July.

Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation, finds itself in serious danger of suffering severe financial penalties if our opening fixture and subsequent home fixture on 6th April 2013 of the 2012-13 SPL season are against a “Club 12” which does not enjoy a travelling support of circa six to eight thousand (@ £26 per person), because that is what we have budgeted for, in line with every other SPL season since the league’s inception in 1998. This means a potential drop in revenue of around £300,000 net.

If the vote on 4th July goes against “Rangers Newco”, the SPL will have breached its contract with “Sky” and other commercial partners who require “Old Firm” derbies as part of the SPL’s contractual obligations. Termination or re-negotiation of these contracts may follow with unquantifiable (but certainly negative) financial consequences for all twelve member clubs.

This would have a profound impact on the operating conditions of our club. We no longer have access to “soft loans” from a wealthy owner and seven years of debt reduction is unlikely to be reversed by Lloyds Banking Group offering increased borrowing facilities. The excellent support which we enjoy from sponsors and supporters would hopefully continue unabated but even the slickest of sales and marketing campaigns would struggle to fill the financial void in the short term. Spending cuts in the club’s administration and hotel have already been implemented. There is no room for further savings in those areas without causing major operational issues. This leaves the playing squad to bear the brunt of a serious funding shortfall. Expenditure on the club’s Youth Development programme and community projects would also come under severe pressure.

The statement issued by Motherwell FC on 18th June (excerpts annexed) captured the dilemma facing the majority of SPL clubs.

I firmly believe that the success and prosperity of our club will always come first with our supporters. I also believe that our supporters appreciate the progress we've made over the last two seasons and are keen to be a part of what we hope will be an exciting period ahead. Thus the healthy season ticket sales to date - ahead of last year's figures.

Following the emotional rollercoaster of our season ending match with Falkirk in 2010, we have recorded steady improvements, both on and off the pitch. This, of course, culminated in an unforgettable day at Hampden in March when the League Cup was won for the first time in our history, completing our "treble" of Scottish football's major honours.

Since last season ended, Manuel Pascali, James Fowler, Garry Hay and, most importantly, our cup winning manager Kenny Shiels have all signed extended contracts. Kenny is very much a “man with a plan” and has already given a number of young players first team experience as he builds for the future.

We have a sound platform to build from. It is our intention to add to the core of last season's squad by bringing in quality players in key positions and also to give further opportunities to the talented young players who are pushing for inclusion in the first team.

It's frustrating that due to circumstances outwith our control we are being hampered in our preparations for next season.This is a particularly difficult and anxious time as we look to manage our finances to create a playing budget that will allow us to match our ambitions for the club next season with our estimated income in the club's financial year to 31st May, 2013.

Normally, this is down to our projections on season ticket sales, gate receipts, commercial income from sponsors and our share of central revenues from the SPL - all of which is generally predictable. However, the uncertainty over Rangers' participation in the SPL and the potential consequences of that for the level of gate receipts and TV revenues received via the SPL has meant that we have not been able to press ahead with our plans.

The next few weeks are critical in terms of preparing the playing squad for the new season. The players reported back for pre-season training today. One or two of last season's first team regulars remain out of contract and we would like to be able to make offers to them and the signing targets highlighted by Kenny as soon as possible to give us the best preparation for next season.

For that reason, the news on season ticket sales offers encouragement and, hopefully, we'll be able to continue to report positive news as we proceed through the renewal process. Each year, our clear objective is is to increase sales and we’re on target to do that for the second year in succession. It's a sobering thought, however, that we'd need around 1,000 additional adult season ticket sales to make up for the loss of two home fixtures against Rangers next season - but if that becomes a necessity, then that's what we'll aim to do.

So, we're looking for the wider issues to be resolved quickly, which will allow us and the rest of the SPL clubs to finalise budgets and pre-season plans and get back to playing football. Now, perhaps more than ever before, we need our true supporters to back the club - regardless of who "Club 12" turns out to be.

Very recently, "Rangers Newco" has offered to accept a range of sporting and financial penalties for the wrongdoing of "Rangers Oldco", as well as undertaking to support a change to the SPL's iniquitous 90% (11-1) voting structure to a more democratic 75% (9-3), if allowed entry to the SPL. This is not insignificant and is recognised in the third option on the consultation response slip.

I want to go to the SPL General Meeting on 4th July with a clear impression of the opinions of our most important stakeholders - the club's shareholders and season ticket holders - so please reply by email to [email protected] or use the response slip and reply paid envelope provided if you have received this letter by post. Responses must be received by 12 noon on Monday 2nd July.




There are three options to which you should respond

1 - YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid the SPL being in breach of its contractual obligations to "Sky" and other commercial partners

2 - NO - the "New" Rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Kilmarnock FC

3 - YES - subject to the "New" Rangers FC accepting a range of sporting and financial penalties (short of exclusion from the SPL) for the wrongdoing of the owners of the "Old" Rangers FC
AND undertaking to support reform of the SPL's voting structure, the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL

Please include 1-YES or 2-NO or 3-YES in your subject heading which will help us to evaluate the responses.


Yours sincerely,



Michael Johnston,Chairman,
Kilmarnock FC
League Cup Winners 2012

How bloody pathetic is option 2?!

[Joe's ice cream]

Now admittedly this situation could drag on for some time, it sure has until this point, but the fact that we have reached this point at all with clubs in the SPL publically coming out and stating they don't want a New Co near the SPL should be taken as a massive credit by forums such as this along with some excellent blogs which have appeared since Feb,continualy asking relevant questions and keeping asserted issues in the public domain. The fan polls offering a true representation of what is really being felt should be credited massively- well done those who created, positioned and administrated them.

I hope that after all said an done the pandering media are never allowed to forget that they did not effect this systemic change, some can hold there heads up for actually asking the questions, built the majority have not set the agenda in the slightest but followed the direction driven by the fans of the so called 'diddy' clubs. The likes of Jim Traynor should never be allowed to forget that he has been well and truly found out, he should be reminded consistently on his weekly call programme that he is no more a 'true voice of football' than my mother is.

The likes of Traynor and others for that matter have effected the problems the former club know as Rangers find themselves now in by consistently bigging them and the other side of the old firm up making them and theire supporters actually believe that they were involved in the biggest clubs in the world who were the envy of the world over - there not, they never have been and the 'old firm' is not the biggest derby in football. But print it enough times and they fell for it, believing that they were so big and powerful that nothing but success and glory could come there respective ways.......all it did was make them all from senior management down to supporters forget to ask some searching questions when required.....and when they were what did we hear a few seasons ago? - "we deserve better" - well so does the rest of Scottish football, and guess what its happening ;-)

[Lmc2105]

If what jim spence has tweeted is correct and rangers could get in the SFL they need a swing of 23 clubs to vote for them, so the whole of the 2nd and 3rd division plus a few div 1 teams interesting,

[1875godsgift]

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How bloody pathetic is option 2?!

that voting system, by its wording, pushes people towards option 1



There are three options to which you should respond

1 - YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid the SPL being in breach of its contractual obligations to "Sky" and other commercial partners

1 YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid sporting integrity being more important than financial gain.

2 - NO - the "New" Rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Kilmarnock FC

2 - NO - the "New" rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Scottish football.

3 - YES - subject to the "New" Rangers FC accepting a range of sporting and financial penalties (short of exclusion from the SPL) for the wrongdoing of the owners of the "Old" Rangers FC
AND undertaking to support reform of the SPL's voting structure, the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL

3 -YES - "New" rangers should have no input into the determination of their penalties, and the SPL voting structure should be reformed without the need for "New" rangers to have any voting rights whatsoever.

Please include 1-YES or 2-NO or 3-YES in your subject heading which will help us to evaluate the responses.

[Twiglet]

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If what jim spence has tweeted is correct and rangers could get in the SFL they need a swing of 23 clubs to vote for them, so the whole of the 2nd and 3rd division plus a few div 1 teams interesting,

Could be tough for them, considering a few clubs have made their feelings known about the Rangers situation. Might end up coming down to the options available in who else applies for the space, but who else would apply? A Highland league team? Spartans? Whoever it is would need to have some financial backing.

[Lmc2105]

Of course the fairest way to do it would be an open application process to give these teams the chance to play in the 3rd division and most of them are good enough! What a think might maybe get rangers in is the propect of the "new pyramid system" which will give these teams a chance in the lower leagues and very rightly so!! No way shape or form to rangers even deserve to walk back in!

[snooky]

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that voting system, by its wording, pushes people towards option 1

Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls.

[Jim44]

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Too late for him IMO. There's a difference between doing the right thing because you want tae and changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side and suffer a double penalty of nae huns and a boycott of other supporters.

Glad to hear somebody else voicing this opinion. I've mentioned it a few times but felt that I was being accused of being unnecessarily vindictive since a 'no' vote was assured and it didn't matter what the fence-sitters were going to do. I hope Johnston and Killie get it tight next season.

[1875godsgift]

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Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls.

Never! They don't do that, do they?

That's about as believable as the president of the SFA being a dyed-in-the-wool hun with a history of tax evasion.

Oh, wait a minute.........

[joe breezy]

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Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls.

yep and still everyone has replied No to the Huns...

What a diddy, feel sorry for the fans, a real chance they'll be boycotted next season

[joe breezy]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/ranger...-1-2375352\\By CRAIG P STEWART
Published on Tuesday 26 June 2012 00:00



IRONY will be at the forefront of the minds of certain members of the Scottish Football League with long memories when they vote on the future of ‘The Rangers’.


Five clubs which will be involved in determining which division the Ibrox club will play in next season – Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer – may think back 48 years when the boot was on the other foot.

In 1964, this gang of five survived an attempt to oust them from senior football in a move led by Rangers.

The Glasgow giants wanted to reduce the number of clubs in the then top two divisions from 37 to 32 and proposed that the minnows should drop out.

Rangers proposed that the five clubs with the smallest gate receipts should be kicked out and were at the vanguard of moves to make it happen, including sending out correspondence to the other member clubs and deliberately excluding the targeted clubs.

Amid much legal wrangling, the smaller clubs – supported by Celtic and their chairman Robert Kelly – survived the move. SFL Operations Director David Thomson recalled: “The book that was launched to mark the centenary of the SFL in 1990 records what happened. The five clubs were in danger of being voted out. However, Stenhousemuir committee member Robert Turpey, who was also a lawyer, and strongly supported by the other clubs, was successful in raising an interim interdict on their behalf.”

The matter was eventually resolved out of court in November 1964 amid promises that the clubs would remain in the SFL and any new league that was formed. Thomson added: “That decision probably marks the start of a move to three professional leagues that started a decade later when the Premier League along with Divisions 1 and 2 were created.”

However, Rangers’ role in the wrangle caused a lot of anger at the time, especially in Stranraer. Present-day committee member Shaun Niven said: “I know that a lot of people in the town were unhappy with what had gone on. Stranraer are Scotland’s third oldest team as we were formed in 1870 after just Queen’s Park and Kilmarnock. We waited over 80 years to be admitted to the old-style Division Two and to be told after ten years that we were not wanted caused a lot of resentment. The clubs that had been targeted rallied round to win their case and remain in the SFL to this day.”

Looking at Rangers’ present predicament, Niven added: “This situation is another of the great ironies that football throws up. We could now determine whether Rangers get into the SFL and what division they come into after they tried to throw us out all those years ago.

“This whole situation is full of issues going full circle as it has probably accelerated the amalgamation of the SPL and the SFL 15 years after they were spilt apart by SPL sides led by Rangers and Celtic. Now one league body is seen as the way forward.”

Berwick, of course, took a measure of revenge on the park less than two years later when they defeated Rangers 1-0 in a Scottish Cup tie, and now the fate of the club that wanted to expel them and four others could sit in their collective hands.

If it comes to a vote at the SFL, Stranraer would have to balance the prospect of placing Rangers in the First Division for the good of the game overall against their own promotion to the Second Division, as they were the losing play-off side last month and weigh up the benefit of eight local derbies against Queen of the South and Ayr United to an overall package that benefits the SFL overall.

Niven added, “Nothing will be pre-judged based on what happened nearly 50 years ago. If we have to make a decision we will do that based on what is best for Stranraer FC and Scottish football overall.”

[SurferRosa]

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Theres a thread titled wait for it "Should We Be Getting Sympathy "

Aye........i read that one..

[Dashing Bob S]

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Too late for him IMO. There's a difference between doing the right thing because you want tae and changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side and suffer a double penalty of nae huns and a boycott of other supporters.

Exactly how I feel about it. A spineless coward who tried to look after his own interests, and wasn't even blessed with the common sense to determine what that was. Way too late for a U-turn as far as I'm concerned, I won't be putting money in the pocket f this sad quisling.

[Nailrod]

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Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls.

Worth bearing in mind that should any kind of 'Rangers' be playing anywhere in Scottish football next season, come Scottish Cup draw time the traditional heated ping-pong balls are going to be back in service, but to achieve entirely the opposite objective...