Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[greenlex]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3263935]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The more I read it, Cav, the more I am convinced that the latter is the case.

BUT... and this is the most frustrating thing for me... NO ONE is asking the question!!

Surely a quick e-mail to a paper or the Channel 4 dude is in order just in case this has been missed.

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3263925]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The very fact that you don't understand.... and that I am swithering, and that Cav is sitting on the fence so much he has splinters in his erse .... is indicative of how crucial this question is. No Fricker has asked the question publicly yet!!

I do hope that my former employers at BDO are on this. They will be, won't they? We can't be the only ones talking about his, can we?

And on the fence is where I'm staying.

If I didn't have personal experience of how carefully professional firms draft and check these things I'd write the EOS discrepancy off as a clerical error, but the apparently deliberate way it's been done strongly suggests otherwise. I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else though, and that also makes me doubt my own observations.

[ancienthibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3263941]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes, but the property would still be in the old company.... leaving it open to purchase by someone who had no intention of using it as a football stadium.

I should have said that Wattie & Co would buy the stadium and all the 'excluded' property, all the players would ignore Yorkie man and flock to Watty and Watty Junior and all would be sweetness and light at hunpox as the fans bought ST's in their tens of thousands!

As you have said, no one else have focussed on this question of 'excluded property'. Has Jim McColl been reading this thread?

[1two]

Anyone care to summarise this weeks farce and summarise the likely out one if it all?

I'm confused

[Andy74]

Does the Green company have the players now if he has completed a purchase of the assets?

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=greenlex;3263944]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Surely a quick e-mail to a paper or the Channel 4 dude is in order just in case this has been missed.

Paul McConville did a blog about errors in the CVA when it first came out. I intended to email him about it then, but couldn't find a contact address and then dropped the ball a bit. I'ts actually a bit late now that the CVA is oot the windae.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=ancienthibby;3263954]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I should have said that Wattie & Co would buy the stadium and all the 'excluded' property, all the players would ignore Yorkie man and flock to Watty and Watty Junior and all would be sweetness and light at hunpox as the fans bought ST's in their tens of thousands!

As you have said, no one else have focussed on this question of 'excluded property'. Has Jim McColl been reading this thread?

Nah..he's in the gairden, tending to his beeeyootiful roases, George.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does the Green company have the players now if he has completed a purchase of the assets?

He thinks he does...but I would suggest even that is in doubt. The SPFA will want to put their oar in, I'm sure. I am no expert in employment law, but as I understand it... the players contracts CAN be transferred under TUPE legislation, but they don't HAVE to be if the players don't want them to be.

[ScottB]

I'm wondering where we are headed next.

We have Greene appearing to own the bits of the oldco that are worth owning, however the fans have been turned against him, as Tom English pointed out last night, that McCoist story was too good to be true for the sudden arrival of the Smith consortium. The succulent lamb returns already it would seem...

So, the fans want Greene out, and are being told not to buy season tickets. So Greene owns a club with no income stream, and likely no, or very few players. The big question is, does he throw in the towel and sell up to Smith, or does he dig his heels in and demand his pound of flesh for his troubles...

This could easily drag on long enough that no club emerges in time for next season, or perhaps even 2 seperate Rangers clubs try and bid for league entry, or Greene keeps Ibrox and Murray Park to lease back to a Smith Rangers.

In short. it's a mess!

[CropleyWasGod]

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

Already did it 10 mins ago.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Already did it 10 mins ago.

What a team

[green glory]

Actually give me your wording and I'll copy and paste into another tweet.

[sahib]

Green buys Gers for 5.5M. Sells to Walty for say 20M, almost immediately
Why was this, suddenly, desireable company/ assets not sold for more in the interests of the creditors? A public auction would have been interesting.

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

The Scots law blog welcomes guest writers CWG and he does seem to have the eyes and ears of a few journos.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...e-to-the-blog/

[ancienthibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm wondering where we are headed next.

We have Greene appearing to own the bits of the oldco that are worth owning, however the fans have been turned against him, as Tom English pointed out last night, that McCoist story was too good to be true for the sudden arrival of the Smith consortium. The succulent lamb returns already it would seem...

So, the fans want Greene out, and are being told not to buy season tickets. So Greene owns a club with no income stream, and likely no, or very few players. The big question is, does he throw in the towel and sell up to Smith, or does he dig his heels in and demand his pound of flesh for his troubles...

This could easily drag on long enough that no club emerges in time for next season, or perhaps even 2 seperate Rangers clubs try and bid for league entry, or Greene keeps Ibrox and Murray Park to lease back to a Smith Rangers.

In short. it's a mess!

He has apparently told Wattie this morning that his price is £20 million.(per BBC Gossip)

The real negotiation begins!

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He thinks he does...but I would suggest even that is in doubt. The SPFA will want to put their oar in, I'm sure. I am no expert in employment law, but as I understand it... the players contracts CAN be transferred under TUPE legislation, but they don't HAVE to be if the players don't want them to be.

Every expert on employment law has confirmed that after an insolvency event, the employees can choose to opt out of transferring to the Newco. Those that wish to transfer can provided that the terms are the same. Those that want to walk can do and sign for other clubs as free agents.

Green has come over as a complete idiot on this. I am sure that the Scottish PFA have got this one right.

Expect an exodus any time now.

[Spike Mandela]

https://twitter.com/frankieboyle/sta...74306028978177

[Darth Hibbie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

He's getting it tight this morning from some rangers fans because he suggested saint watler should disclose his involvement in EBT's. Word something up for me and I will ask him. The more the merrier as they say.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Every expert on employment law has confirmed that after an insolvency event, the employees can choose to opt out of transferring to the Newco. Those that wish to transfer can provided that the terms are the same. Those that want to walk can do and sign for other clubs as free agents.

Green has come over as a complete idiot on this. I am sure that the Scottish PFA have got this one right.

Expect an exodus any time now.

I think what I was asking was, as of yesterday, did the sale include the players, if so, are they sitting in Newco and they can still choose to opt out or does the actual transfer to newco take longer and they still have some time to say no thanks.

[johnrebus]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Anyone care to summarise this weeks farce and summarise the likely out one if it all?

I'm confused

Green to sell to Wattie for c. £9/10m.

The Hun to be relegated to.............,


Divison One.






However.

What has happened about the investigation into D&P?
Is it still possible for the creditors to challenge the sale of Hun to Green?

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think what I was asking was, as of yesterday, did the sale include the players, if so, are they sitting in Newco and they can still choose to opt out or does the actual transfer to newco take longer and they still have some time to say no thanks.

The players can opt out or in, it's their choice, not Greenies despite what he's said.

[H18sry]

Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration – or is that now in liquidation?) is no longer eligible to hold an SPL share. It does not have a ground, it cannot run a youth development system, it has major financial issues. Remember that those overdue accounts are now due today. It fails to meet many of the SPL membership criteria.

So the next Board meeting of the SPL should ask for the share to be remitted to the league. The former football club should take no more part in discussions on the future of an organisation it will not be a part of.

Sevco 5088 (trading as The Rangers Football Club) is not yet a football club. We are told that it now owns Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park, but does it employ any footballers? Does it have a youth development system? Can it meet the SPL’s financial regulations?

This is not as simple as Sevco winning 8 votes – and that should be 8 of 11 SPL members by the time a decisions is made. Before its application can be voted on it must be assessed against all of the membership criteria.

[hibbyfrankie]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. The sheep seem to believe that there might not even be a vote. I really hope this aint being thought of as a way out for those on the voting fence. http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/2811915

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If, big IF as we've discussed, the property is still in the OldCo, the liquidation process would put it up for sale in the open market.

Maybe it's been passed on to CW, in the same way that Green picked up the rest of the assets for a bargain, in order to avoid them going through the liquidation process?

It does seem strange that HMRC would let all the assets go for £5.5m knowing that the liquidator could get much more on the open market .. unless, as has been pointed out, a lot of the property assets are NOT included in the £5.5m sale.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Actually give me your wording and I'll copy and paste into another tweet.

okay.. something like this.

"Thus far, there seems to be a general assumption in the mainstream media that Charles Green has purchased all of the assets of Rangers for £5.5m. Those assets, it is assumed, include all of the properties. However, no-one has actually questioned this assumption.
In the CVA proposal (page 37), there is a Expected Outcome Statement, which shows the outcomes of the three main scenarios, ie CVA, transfer to NewCo, and liquidation. Under the NewCo heading, the payment of £5.5m is split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Goodwill, Players' Contracts and Intellectual Property Rights. There is no value shown for Property. Does this mean that (a) the property is valued at £nil or (b) the property was not transferred to the NewCo. This is crucial in terms of the position of the creditors of RFC, and of course the proposed liquidation, but, as I say, nobody has aked the question.
The CVA document is confusing and possibly misleading. Was this the intention of the administrators?"

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263931]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm actually saying the opposite of that. The Estimated Outcome Statement shows very clearly that the property is not included in the sale to newco, but the document as a whole and subsequent comments by D&P and others give the impression that the property is included. If the EOS part is not a mistake then D&P have been working very hard to convince creditors that a CVA was the best possible outcome whilst not revealing the whole story - that the properties were not a part of the Newco settlement.

Well I can't see the EOS part being a mistake. So as you have been suggesting, D&P need to be asked to explain in public why they have written an EOS that does not include the property. Unless they say it's a mistake (and how crap will they look if they do) then their answer will be interesting.

[Darth Hibbie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

okay.. something like this.

"Thus far, there seems to be a general assumption in the mainstream media that Charles Green has purchased all of the assets of Rangers for £5.5m. Those assets, it is assumed, include all of the properties. However, no-one has actually questioned this assumption.
In the CVA proposal (page 37), there is a Expected Outcome Statement, which shows the outcomes of the three main scenarios, ie CVA, transfer to NewCo, and liquidation. Under the NewCo heading, the payment of £5.5m is split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Goodwill, Players' Contracts and Intellectual Property Rights. There is no value shown for Property. Does this mean that (a) the property is valued at £nil or (b) the property was not transferred to the NewCo. This is crucial in terms of the position of the creditors of RFC, and of course the proposed liquidation, but, as I say, nobody has aked the question.
The CVA document is confusing and possibly misleading. Was this the intention of the administrators?"

Twitter limits you to 140 characters

Have condensed it a bit and sent it over several tweets. Will see if I get any reply.

[Darth Hibbie]

It seems to me that Green is knows nothing about Scottish Football or is so argent that he thinks he can do whatever he wants!!!!!

- Claims that it is all HMRC's fault because the rejected the CVA and he thought the would accept it even though we all knew there was no way it was going to be accepted by them
- Claims that all the players transfer to newco when we know they do not
- Is going to spend millions on the team even though he appears not to have any investors and is planning on paying the creditors nothing
- An apparently misleading CVA proposal or an extremely undervalued dodgy deal with D&P

It really is nothing more than propaganda without any factual basis and the ibrox masses are taking it in hook line and sinker.

[johnrebus]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It seems to me that Green is knows nothing about Scottish Football or is so argent that he thinks he can do whatever he wants!!!!!

- Claims that it is all HMRC's fault because the rejected the CVA and he thought the would accept it even though we all knew there was no way it was going to be accepted by them
- Claims that all the players transfer to newco when we know they do not
- Is going to spend millions on the team even though he appears not to have any investors and is planning on paying the creditors nothing
- An apparently misleading CVA proposal or an extremely undervalued dodgy deal with D&P

It really is nothing more than propaganda without any factual basis and the ibrox masses are taking it in hook line and sinker.

Charles Green is a smart cookie.

He will walk away from this in a few days having trousered a few million quid for a few weeks work.


Which was always his only intention.