Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Cropley10]

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this.

He's also acknowledged as being one of the game's 'finest administrators'. Yet he signed important paperwork 'blind'.

[calmac12000]

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He's also acknowledged as being one of the game's 'finest administrators'. Yet he signed important paperwork 'blind'.

Tells you alll you need to know about the standard of football's administration in this country!

[seanshow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18385024

Green looking to buy players now? This guy is unbelievable! He reminds me of this chap...



Carry on as normal nothing to see here

[Seveno]

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Tells you alll you need to know about the standard of football's administration in this country!

I'd like to get a hold of his cheque book.

' Just sign here, Campbell. It's okay, you don't need to know'.

[hibs0666]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18385024

Green looking to buy players now? This guy is unbelievable! He reminds me of this chap...



Carry on as normal nothing to see here

He can't sign players whilst in administration without the permission of the SPL. He's grandstanding and the more he grandstands the more he looks like Del Boy.

[PatHead]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18385024

Green looking to buy players now? This guy is unbelievable! He reminds me of this chap...



Carry on as normal nothing to see here

Will endear him to other chairman when he comes begging for his newco to get into spl.

[seanshow]

...and following it up I really liked this post from the RTC blog regarding the Bbc sport pages.

BBC website SPL team by team headlines

ABERDEEN – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

CELTIC – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

DUNDEE UNITED – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

DUNFERMLINE – Dunfermline add three new faces

HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

HIBERNIAN – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

INVERNESS CALEDONIAN THISTLE – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

KILMARNOCK – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

MOTHERWELL – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

RANGERS – Rangers could make early signings

ST JOHNSTONE – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

ST MIRREN – SFA investigates clubs’ finances

pmsl


Mucho credit to the chap who posted it.

[Onion]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18385024

Green looking to buy players now? This guy is unbelievable! He reminds me of this chap...



Carry on as normal nothing to see here

just PR puff from Greene who needs to appeal to the Ibrox knuckle draggers who need reasons to but STs. In saying that, it I really hope HMRC, the teams that RFC owe money to, and other creditors are reading this Not long to wait now

[Lungo--Drom]

Dave, I was asking myself that very same question. It doesn't make sense to the ordinary man on the street. Some of the finance experts here on .net could probably give some good suggestions or answers. All I can offer is:

> Rangers Fighting Fund?

> faceless but rich pro-RFC benefactors

> foolish traders (no offence meant) giving credit terms for purchases such as merchandise for shop, travel and accommodation for friendly matches etc.

The Ipox clubstore staff are probably getting paid out the money taken for selling stuff in the shop which in itself is probably not getting paid for, i.e. merchandise obtained on credit, then sold to pay staff wages? I don't really know just trying to think of some logical suggestions.

Maybe there's a big dungeon several hundred feet below the admin building where the hierarchy at RFC go down to wearing dark as night blue cloaks and consort with the Devil and he gives them big wads of cash to keep going? ;)

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I assume that shop at Ipox is still trading? If so, where does the cash go? wages for staff? into creditor pot (since the stock was bouht with csh from creditors)?
Also, I noticed that they have been making arrangements for overseas pe-season tours/freindlies etc.....how are they paying the bills for these trips?

[Jim44]

The big tax case seems to be dragging on for ever. If the CVA is accepted or if it is not and a newco is established, what are the implications of the case going against Rangers?

[Ozyhibby]

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The big tax case seems to be dragging on for ever. If the CVA is accepted or if it is not and a newco is established, what are the implications of the case going against Rangers?

If a new club is established there are no implications at all regarding any money owed by the old club. Which is why we are relying on the sporting authorities to deal with them properly. The pressure must be kept on Petrie, the SPL and the SFA.

[Niffy]

Absolutely rediculous... offering business's they shafted 9p for every pound they owe them , then they turn up and say "look who we're wanting to sign & pay big wages to..."

Hope they get binned even more now.

[Hibs07p]

I think the HMRC is going to screw Rangers to the wall, and they will get two chances to do it. If the CVA fails they are liquidated, and the big tax case is finished. If they survive the CVA and keep their history, the big tax case comes into play, and Hector goes after them again. I think the tax man is covering all bases for any eventuality. To be honest, I think Rangers (Green) would prefer liquidation as well, to get rid of the BTC. I hope they do survive the CVA, only for Hector to serve them with a BTC bill the day after. They then have to agree a payment plan of £5M a year to pay of the tax debt, leaving them seriously weakened for the see-able future. The end game is nigh.

GGTTH

[JeMeSouviens]

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I assume that shop at Ipox is still trading? If so, where does the cash go? wages for staff? into creditor pot (since the stock was bouht with csh from creditors)?
Also, I noticed that they have been making arrangements for overseas pe-season tours/freindlies etc.....how are they paying the bills for these trips?

Huns don't own their shops (warning link contains traces of Hun):

http://www.followfollow.com/news/tmn...23/index.shtml

[JeMeSouviens]

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I think the HMRC is going to screw Rangers to the wall, and they will get two chances to do it. If the CVA fails they are liquidated, and the big tax case is finished. If they survive the CVA and keep their history, the big tax case comes into play, and Hector goes after them again. I think the tax man is covering all bases for any eventuality. To be honest, I think Rangers (Green) would prefer liquidation as well, to get rid of the BTC. I hope they do survive the CVA, only for Hector to serve them with a BTC bill the day after. They then have to agree a payment plan of £5M a year to pay of the tax debt, leaving them seriously weakened for the see-able future. The end game is nigh.

GGTTH

BTC is included (at least the original amount + interest and possibly an estimate of the penalties). The bill has been served and although the Hun appeal result is not known, HMRC have a claim in for it.

[Jim44]

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I think the HMRC is going to screw Rangers to the wall, and they will get two chances to do it. If the CVA fails they are liquidated, and the big tax case is finished. If they survive the CVA and keep their history, the big tax case comes into play, and Hector goes after them again. I think the tax man is covering all bases for any eventuality. To be honest, I think Rangers (Green) would prefer liquidation as well, to get rid of the BTC. I hope they do survive the CVA, only for Hector to serve them with a BTC bill the day after. They then have to agree a payment plan of £5M a year to pay of the tax debt, leaving them seriously weakened for the see-able future. The end game is nigh.

GGTTH

By this logic therefore it is in HMRC' s financial interests to accept the CVA. Why is then that most people think it won't be accepted?

[Sylar]

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The BBC is our national broadcaster; a position which brings responsibilities for fair reporting.
So why do they publish this rubbish?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...medium=twitter


As for the bit in bold - he clearly doesn't quite grasp what a stadium naming deal entails.

I can see the point he's making with the stadium renaming to be fair.

Newcastle fans still call St James' Park, St James' Park, despite the investment and new name.

Livingston's Almondvale has changed names a few times (West Lothian Courier Stadium, Braidwood Motor Company Stadium) but most people still call it Almondvale.

[JeMeSouviens]

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The big tax case seems to be dragging on for ever. If the CVA is accepted or if it is not and a newco is established, what are the implications of the case going against Rangers?

It has almost no practical implication. HMRC already have a large enough debt to block the CVA on their own. The only difference it makes is to how shafted the other creditors are because HMRC will claim a larger percentage of the paltry pot. If a New Club purchases the Hun assets then the BTC debt is nothing to do with them, Guv.

[JeMeSouviens]

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By this logic therefore it is in HMRC' s financial interests to accept the CVA. Why is then that most people think it won't be accepted?

Because the message to all other football clubs is: "don't worry about paying us, you can throw us buttons in a few years time". A million or 2 now is pretty much neither here nor there in the grand scheme.

[Sylar]

I was speaking to someone through the weekend who claimed that this week will see the end of them as a club.

HMRC aren't willing to accept a CVA, as it'll accept a precedent for every other company in the UK to wiggle out of such future instances of financial oblivion.

He also told me that the assets will be liquidated separately and not as a package, so individual developers can take Murray Park, the car park or Ibrox individually.

His credential is that he used to be one of Scotland's chief tax inspectors, though is now retired. He's also a Celtic fan.

He claimed to know the name of the company who would undertake the liquidation but suddenly wasn't in a sharing mood when pressed.

Possibly all nothing more than hot air or nothing new but I felt I'd share with the group

[Caversham Green]

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By this logic therefore it is in HMRC' s financial interests to accept the CVA. Why is then that most people think it won't be accepted?

HMRC aren't only concerned with the financial aspect, they're very keen that taxpayers abide by the rules. They have a set of criteria for accepting CVAs and this one fails most of them. On top of that the CVA proposal is half-arsed - it can't state how much in the £ creditors will get and there's a large number of creditors that haven't even been quantified. On top of that it seeks to remove certain assets from the CVA fund that rightfully should be in there and suggests that the total gross value of the assets in liquidation is less than £4.6m.

The very best HMRC can hope for with a CVA is an unquantified share of £5m - that's chicken feed to them, and IMO they would much prefer to show that they will come down hard on those who break the rules (and those who operate sub-standard administrations) and to test those liquidation values - that's why they've lined up BDO as liquidators.

[Hibs07p]

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BTC is included (at least the original amount + interest and possibly an estimate of the penalties). The bill has been served and although the Hun appeal result is not known, HMRC have a claim in for it.

My apologies, I thought the BTC was outstanding.

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By this logic therefore it is in HMRC' s financial interests to accept the CVA. Why is then that most people think it won't be accepted?

That would only have been relevant if Hector was still waiting to pounce with the BTC.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I was speaking to someone through the weekend who claimed that this week will see the end of them as a club.

HMRC aren't willing to accept a CVA, as it'll accept a precedent for every other company in the UK to wiggle out of such future instances of financial oblivion.

He also told me that the assets will be liquidated separately and not as a package, so individual developers can take Murray Park, the car park or Ibrox individually.

His credential is that he used to be one of Scotland's chief tax inspectors, though is now retired. He's also a Celtic fan.

He claimed to know the name of the company who would undertake the liquidation but suddenly wasn't in a sharing mood when pressed.

Possibly all nothing more than hot air or nothing new but I felt I'd share with the group

Do keep up, old chap.

http://www.bdo.uk.com/find-a-partner/malcolm-cohen

[Sylar]

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Do keep up, old chap.

http://www.bdo.uk.com/find-a-partner/malcolm-cohen

I couldn't be bothered trawling through to see if it had been touched on already, but thank ye

[Andy74]

Surely this guy telling everyone how much money Rangers will have in a few months time is just very badly misjudged at this time?

Creditors will be paying attention no doubt and I would hope the SPL clubs are taking note in the event they are asked to let any new club back in.

[stokesmessiah]

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Surely this guy telling everyone how much money Rangers will have in a few months time is just very badly misjudged at this time?

Creditors will be paying attention no doubt and I would hope the SPL clubs are taking note in the event they are asked to let any new club back in.

Andy, i have said this a few times, IMO i think it is a deliberate and calculated ploy.


Charles Green wants the CVA to fail as much as you or i do.

If i were a creditor and was reading some of the recent press i would be fuming, i even noticed on the BBC gossip today that they have a list of potential targets 5 of which are currently playing at the Euro's.

[BarneyK]

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Andy, i have said this a few times, IMO i think it is a deliberate and calculated ploy.


Charles Green wants the CVA to fail as much as you or i do.

If i were a creditor and was reading some of the recent press i would be fuming, i even noticed on the BBC gossip today that they have a list of potential targets 5 of which are currently playing at the Euro's.

He may not want the CVA, but judging by the comments of the formerly supportive (to the Newco cause) Steven Thomson last week, they are playing a very dangerous game. They are winding up the the other clubs and their vote for a reintroduction into the SPL suddenly looks far from assured.

[PatHead]

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He may not want the CVA, but judging by the comments of the formerly supportive (to the Newco cause) Steven Thomson last week, they are playing a very dangerous game. They are winding up the the other clubs and their vote for a reintroduction into the SPL suddenly looks far from assured.

If you look closely at what Steven Thompson says he doesn't actually say that Rangers Newco won't be accepted into SPL. He says ""It wouldn't be just a simple yes or no vote, they'd have to negotiate their way back in again, that might not be easy for them."- In short, they can get back in but on our terms.

I still believe a Rangers of sorts will be in the SPL next season. Doncaster is being far too quiet for my liking as are his apologists in the BBC and media regarding Rangers newco and the SPL..

[BarneyK]

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If you look closely at what Steven Thompson says he doesn't actually say that Rangers Newco won't be accepted into SPL. He says ""It wouldn't be just a simple yes or no vote, they'd have to negotiate their way back in again, that might not be easy for them."- In short, they can get back in but on our terms.

I still believe a Rangers of sorts will be in the SPL next season. Doncaster is being far too quiet for my liking as are his apologists in the BBC and media regarding Rangers newco and the SPL..

Of course he doesn't say definitively one way or another, but it's a seismic shift from his previous standpoint that they would have to be voted back in.

[sadtom]

Like a lot of people on here i'm not to hot on the legalities of der huns financial jiggery-pokery and i'm thankful of the imput fron those who do have a better understanding.
From what i gather, no matter what happens it looks like the cheats are going to avoid paying up to or in excess of 100 million quid which is disgusting.
Part ofme thinks they should be allowed to continue to operate only on the proviso that this debt is serviced even if it takes 20 years to recoup their dues. This would see them having to operate on a playing budget similar to that of the poorest clubs in the league.
The other point that i'd love soneone to shed light on is the case of the 10 mill plus of recent tax (paye) that they deliberately withheld in the last year or so.
I was led to believe that it was a criminal act to deliberately not pay ongoing costs if there is evidence that the intention was to go into administration/liquidation/cva all along.
Could Whyte be charged and potentially jailed for this specific crime?