Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[JeMeSouviens]

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I think that's probably right, but the discussion was about the cost of relaying the pitch at Ibrox. My point is that the administrators had no reason to incur that cost because as far as they are concerned only CVA or Newco is going to happen and relaying the pitch doesn't improve the outcome for creditors in either option.

It looks like the debate has been superseded anyway if the RFFF have financed it.

Gotcha.

[grunt]

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This is interesting in that it backs up the position of one regular RTC poster who has been banging the drum that the "CVA" is not really a CVA but merely a "Proposal to hold a CVA". So creditors would have to accept the proposal and then we'd go back to D&P for an actual CVA and another vote (and yet another delay).

My post was a shortened version of the paragraph. In full it says:

17.1.9 Any proposed Voluntary Arrangement or Scheme of Arrangement will be considered on its merits by HMRC Voluntary Arrangements Service. Acceptance of the Joint Administrator's proposals by HMRC does not therefore imply acceptance of any Voluntary Arrangement proposals that may be put forward as a consequence.

Damned if I know what it means...

[Monts]

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My post was a shortened version of the paragraph. In full it says:


Damned if I know what it means...

Having no financial knowledge, this could be complete bolox, but it reads to me like they have issued a proposal for the creditors to get together to decide on the outcome as a group rather than as individual entities. Then they are saying that agreeing to answer as one does not mean they are agreeing to the cva.

[JeMeSouviens]

HMRC's nominated liquidator:

http://www.bdo.uk.com/find-a-partner/malcolm-cohen

"Malcolm leads the firms’ Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud."

[GreenCastle]

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Lots of thing being swept under the carpet. I have asked the SPL 3 times now for details of their investigation into alleged sectarian signing at the Rangers v Kilmarnock game on the 18th February. It was mentioned in the SPL delegate's match report yet more than 3 months on we have seen nothing. All my requests have been polite and courteous yet not even had an acknowledgment from the SPL. I don't see how the current issues at Ibrox can stop them investigating this and issuing a response to what were serious allegations.

Was thinking about this the other day - nothing heard about it - seems like it was swept under the carpet.

With the recent Celtic park incident with Rangers fans smashing up the toilets - action was taken as several hundred complaints were made to the police at the time so they had to investigate it.

Seems that nothing will be done about the fans singing as no complaints made.

[Gus Fring]

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BBCAlLamont Dave King calls for Rangers fans to oppose Charles Green's CVA,Dave King also says he's making a claim against club for the full amount of his investment, based on "deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group. "I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and Mr Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes."

Several Tweets put together there for easiness

[JeMeSouviens]

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BBCAlLamont Dave King calls for Rangers fans to oppose Charles Green's CVA,Dave King also says he's making a claim against club for the full amount of his investment, based on "deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group. "I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and Mr Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes."

Several Tweets put together there for easiness

Or see here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

[JeMeSouviens]

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Seems that nothing will be done about the fans singing as no complaints made.

It was mentioned in the SPL match delegate's report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17130755

Still think the SFA have handled things ok so far: SPL an absolute joke.

[Bishop Hibee]

"I am opposing the CVA and urge all loyal fans to do the same," - Dave King.

Don't worry Davie boy, this "loyal" HIbs fan and tax payer opposes the CVA 100%

[stokesmessiah]

WTF????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

[grunt]

In this report he has (or says he will) issued a £20m claim against the Club!

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/105215-r...-against-club/

[jgl07]

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In this report he has (or says he will) issued a £20m claim against the Club!

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/105215-r...-against-club/

What are the implications of this claim for a CVA?

One for CG or CWG I suspect?

[JeMeSouviens]

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WTF????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

First shot in the Barren Knights vs Green Brigade battle for the (rotten) soul of ra Gers!

[Gus Fring]

Is Dave King still active at Rangers? Or was he one of those that left after Whyte took over? If he is still actuve its very interesting that he would feel compelled to make these comments rather than just keeping schtum

[CallumLaidlaw]

Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

[Spike Mandela]

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Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

I suspect there will be claim and counter claim, court case after court case and appeal after appeal for years to come in this sorry mess.

[lapsedhibee]

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I suspect there will be claim and counter claim, court case after court case and appeal after appeal for years to come in this sorry mess.

Happy mess?

[JeMeSouviens]

Catchy title.

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NO GREEN AND WHYTE AT IBROX

I have continued to observe the lack of progress in the attempts to resolve the crisis at Ibrox. I hoped that a “supportable” proposal would emerge from an individual or grouping that would meet the needs of the club. I see those needs comprising of four main components;
1. Any offer should demonstrate the capacity to not only acquire the club but to invest in the club going forward.
2. Any offer should be supported by the requisite business skills to ensure that the recent crisis is not repeated.
3. Any offer should recognise that the club cannot be run on purely business principles. The club has a “soul”, a history, and a tradition going back 140 years. Our children and grandchildren are entitled to the same legacy that our father’s and grandfather’s bequeathed to us.
4. Any offer should recognise that the fans are key stakeholders in the club, whether they are shareholders or not.

In my view the CVA proposal that is being put forward for consideration by Duff & Phelps fails to demonstrate compliance with any of the above criteria. I accept the possibility that Duff and Phelps may know more than is contained in the CVA proposal, but if that is the case, why the lack of transparency? Duff & Phelps have earned enormous sums as administrators and have had sufficient time to ensure that full disclosure is made with any offer.

One practical difficulty that Duff and Phelps has is that their prime responsibility is to those stakeholders that have a legal claim on the company. This excludes the many fans who are important stakeholders but not shareholders. This leads me to some specific concerns about the CVA proposal;
1. It is clear from the CVA proposal that Mr Green intends to repeat Mr Whyte’s strategy of using season ticket sales to fund the club. This would put fans back in the position of funding the club without owning it.
2. I made it clear to Duff and Phelps that I regard the Whyte acquisition of the shares from the Murray Group as being fraudulent and that myself and every other minority shareholder (all fan shareholders) have been prejudiced by this. The CVA gives no recognition to this difficulty and to what reparation will be made to those shareholders who have been abused by the terms of the sale to Mr Whyte.
3. I also advised Duff & Phelps that I was making a claim against the club for the full amount of my investment based on the deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group. I have made that claim but Duff & Phelps have at this stage ignored my representations.
4. If it becomes necessary for me to prove my claim I intend to enlist the support of the other fans, like me, who are shareholders in order to ensure that we are all considered and represented. I further advised Duff & Phelps that any proceeds received in respect of my claim will be reinvested, in full, back into the club. I am sure that all other aggrieved investors (that are fans) will do likewise. This will ensure that a substantial portion of the funds used to acquire the club will still be available to invest in its future.
5. Mr Whyte gave me first right of refusal on his shares on the 29th September 2011. Andrew Ellis subsequently advised me that Mr Whyte had personally advised him about my first right of refusal but that Mr Ellis had a prior right to 24,9% of the shareholding from Mr Whyte. Based on my own history of dealings with Mr Whyte I have no reason to doubt Mr Ellis’s version. Either way, Mr Green cannot acquire the shares.

It is not my intention, and I know Mr Ellis feels the same, to get in the way of a properly structured and a properly funded transaction that meets the needs of all stakeholders, including the fans.

In my view, based on previous discussions with Mr Whyte, it is unlikely in the extreme that he would sell “his” shares to Mr Green for a nominal sum (even if he hadn’t committed them to me) unless he was obtaining some benefit or retaining some control behind the scenes. Duff & Phelps non-communicative approach to stakeholders causes me further concern in that regard.

I am opposing the CVA and urge all loyal fans to do the same. We don’t want to be back in a similar situation next season. I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and Mr Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes.

Dave King
Johannesburg
7th June 2012

[HFC 0-7]

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If a majority thought that the admins weren't doing their job properly, they could apply to the Courts.

Cheers, next question. Charles greene says if a CVA fails he will go newco route and transfer assets - can he do this? Can HMRC appoint liquidators to put the assets on open market to see how much they could get?

Also, can Charles do anything at the moment, I dont think he is the owner and therefore cant say that he will move assets etc.

[Seveno]

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Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

He was going to sue the BBC and that died a death.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Cheers, next question. Charles greene says if a CVA fails he will go newco route and transfer assets - can he do this? Can HMRC appoint liquidators to put the assets on open market to see how much they could get?

Also, can Charles do anything at the moment, I dont think he is the owner and therefore cant say that he will move assets etc.

CG can't transfer assets, he can offer to purchase them from RFC and the admins can accept his offer but if they don't get full market value they would be open to legal challenge.

If the CVA proposal fails then the company stays in admin. If/when the money runs out they will be put into liquidation and it looks like HMRC's nominated liquidator, BDO, will be doing the job. The current administrators, D&P, asked the creditors to approve them as liquidators (if it comes to that) but looks like they failed.

[joe breezy]

BDO have been appointed as the liquidators and are on standby according to posts on Kerrydale Street

I'm sure ages ago someone here reported that an all staff email had gone round BDO asking if anyone had a conflict of interest??

[grunt]

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BDO have been appointed as the liquidators and are on standby according to posts on Kerrydale Street

They haven't been appointed - liquidation hasn't happened yet. They have been nominated as potential liquidators, if the CVA doesn't work and if it is decided that the company should be liquidated.

[Golden Bear]

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BDO have been appointed as the liquidators and are on standby according to posts on Kerrydale Street

I'm sure ages ago someone here reported that an all staff email had gone round BDO asking if anyone had a conflict of interest??

The British Darts Organisation?

Why not - everyone else has had their fingers in the pie!

[iwasthere1972]

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Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

No doubt will be paid by us tax payers sometime in the next 10 years or so if even at all.

This story has more legs than a family of centipedes and the sooner Rangers are brought to account the better. I can't be bothered reading all the posts on this thread as I am fed up with it all. Rangers FC = bunch of

That's all.

[snooky]

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He was going to sue the BBC and that died a death.

Was CW the inspiration for Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named 'Sue' " ?

[grunt]

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Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

Where did you see this?

[iwasthere1972]

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Where did you see this?

It was on SSN.

[Caversham Green]

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The British Darts Organisation?

Why not - everyone else has had their fingers in the pie!

Wee Arra People?

[Seveno]

I can't post a link at present but go to scotslawthoughts for the latest bombshell. It explains why D&P were initially so bullish about a quich CVA.