Hibs transfer rumours

[matty_f]

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Andy. Appreciate all of the above but the reality is we can only afford peanuts and we all know what that buys. I was advised this morning that the upper limit is £1500 p/w but I would assume that there will be win and play bonuses above that.

We will still be scraping around bringing in players at the end of the transfer window who no one else wants. We will get angry when they do not perform to the standard we would like and the board will come out and say its the managers team and he has brought in the new players. The reality will be that he has not brought in the players he wanted due to financial constraints and has had to seettle for second or third choice players. I cannot see us improving on this strategy and we can only flirt with relegation so many times before we drop and to be honest I would not fancy our chances of coming straight back up.

We could end up losing a lot more if we do not spend sufficient amounts to stay clear of the relegation zone and aim for some european dosh.

This is my worry as well, though I can't say I'm privy to any info on salary limits etc.

The problem the Board and Fenlon have is that they want a top 4 finish but won't/can't give the spending power required to bring in players good enough to compete there. We're using a big budget but spreading it too thinly.

IMHO, the board have a duty to re-consider the long term policy and take a short term hit with the view that we'll need to spend less in coming seasons if we get it right now, than we will if we carry on with this horrendous revolving door policy where we replace poor players with equally poor players each transfer window in the hope that something will stick.

There are loads of things that the board should be considering (if they haven't already), off the top of my head they could:

Borrow the money either from the bank or STF if he's willing
Seek finance through tie-ins with businesses - local, national, and international companies are out there and with the right pitch and idea behind it they can and will attract funding.
Put out a share issue - I'm not an expert in this, but I'd think that folk would buy into it.
Discounted block tickets - Say 5 game package but bought up front with a discount for buying in advance. Not as good as a season ticket but would get money in immediately and also get folk through the gates.
Organise a friendly against a decent opponent with the entire gate (after expenses) going to Fenlon's budget and set out that this is what the event is for in advance so that there's an incentive for folk to go.
Release an item or range of items for purchase in the store where all proceeds go to Fenlon.

Some of these may be totally unworkable, but that's knocked up in five minutes. I'd hope that the Board would have the accumen to be able to come up with realistic and workable options to raise funds.

[Andy74]

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Andy. Appreciate all of the above but the reality is we can only afford peanuts and we all know what that buys. I was advised this morning that the upper limit is £1500 p/w but I would assume that there will be win and play bonuses above that.

We will still be scraping around bringing in players at the end of the transfer window who no one else wants. We will get angry when they do not perform to the standard we would like and the board will come out and say its the managers team and he has brought in the new players. The reality will be that he has not brought in the players he wanted due to financial constraints and has had to seettle for second or third choice players. I cannot see us improving on this strategy and we can only flirt with relegation so many times before we drop and to be honest I would not fancy our chances of coming straight back up.

We could end up losing a lot more if we do not spend sufficient amounts to stay clear of the relegation zone and aim for some european dosh.

Well, we can afford what we can afford, that's reality.

There's no limit by the way by player, the manager can use the overall budget how he chooses. I know that from the board, agents, players.

I think our problem has been not in the way we go about signing players or the money we play, the manager's just haven't done well enough finding the right players or the right characters.

It has to ve recalled that we have had the likes of Jones, Bamba, Murphy, Stokes, Miller, Riordan, O'Connor, Zemmama, Benji, Shiels, Boozy and so on signed within our budget and not really paying fees. There's no reason we can't do that again and I've faith in Fenlon to know what he's after and get the right players in.

I'm not going to panic all summer though, particularly during the holidays!

Fenlon will also be patient - his last season in Ireland he had no squad at all up until about a week before the season and waited for the right players he wanted to be available. He had no budget and got that team playing and comfortably mid table on about £250,000 total wages for the squad for the whole year.

[down-the-slope]

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Well, we can afford what we can afford, that's reality.

There's no limit by the way by player, the manager can use the overall budget how he chooses. I know that from the board, agents, players.

I think our problem has been not in the way we go about signing players or the money we play, the manager's just haven't done well enough finding the right players or the right characters.

It has to ve recalled that we have had the likes of Jones, Bamba, Murphy, Stokes, Miller, Riordan, O'Connor, Zemmama, Benji, Shiels, Boozy and so on signed within our budget and not really paying fees. There's no reason we can't do that again and I've faith in Fenlon to know what he's after and get the right players in.

I'm not going to panic all summer though, particularly during the holidays!

Fenlon will also be patient - his last season in Ireland he had no squad at all up until about a week before the season and waited for the right players he wanted to be available. He had no budget and got that team playing and comfortably mid table on about £250,000 total wages for the squad for the whole year.

you can't go quoting facts like that on .net when it doesnt support the arguments of board bashers




I agree its about the manager using the budget he has (advantage being there is less baggage in terms of attitudes / cimmitted budget than for a long number of years) well and then poving he has the ability to make a team that is 'greater than the sum of the parts'

We have had years when we could say we had good players...but poor teams....

Look at ICT / St Jonstone / Motherwell as examples of creating teams that exceed the individuals....if PF can do that we will do well due to resources we have...if he cant we will be back to square one looking for another manager

[Hibs7]

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Well, we can afford what we can afford, that's reality.

There's no limit by the way by player, the manager can use the overall budget how he chooses. I know that from the board, agents, players.

I think our problem has been not in the way we go about signing players or the money we play, the manager's just haven't done well enough finding the right players or the right characters.

It has to ve recalled that we have had the likes of Jones, Bamba, Murphy, Stokes, Miller, Riordan, O'Connor, Zemmama, Benji, Shiels, Boozy and so on signed within our budget and not really paying fees. There's no reason we can't do that again and I've faith in Fenlon to know what he's after and get the right players in.

I'm not going to panic all summer though, particularly during the holidays!

Fenlon will also be patient - his last season in Ireland he had no squad at all up until about a week before the season and waited for the right players he wanted to be available. He had no budget and got that team playing and comfortably mid table on about £250,000 total wages for the squad for the whole year.

So basically if PF wanted he could have someone on £5k a week as long as his overall budget stayed within the set limits. That makes sense, so it should be quality over quantity. Supported by very good young players in case of injuries. I like that way of thinking.

[Andy74]

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So basically if PF wanted he could have someone on £5k a week as long as his overall budget stayed within the set limits. That makes sense, so it should be quality over quantity. Supported by very good young players in case of injuries. I like that way of thinking.

It's the way it's been though and hasn't been used properly yet!

I suppose though we have had the likes of Riordan and O'Connor who will have been on decent money, balanced by others in the squad like Stevenson, Wotherspoon etc who will probably still be on minimal pay.

CC talked a lot about quality over quantity but didn't deliver it. I hope Fenlon does.

I'm with you, I'd have 3 or 4 players on very good money in key positions along wth some good kids and some good signings from lower divisions.

[Jones28]

Right, so (I'm going to use a ridiculous example here), our budget is like FIFA 12?

Ie, you have a slider which you can move about to change the ratio of wages:transfer fee's?

FIFA folk ken whits goin on


BTW if Mcpake does sign for Hearts (which I seriously doubt will happen anyway) who would be your next best signing? Pascali from Killie?

That Heiridersan (sp) from Portsmouth? He was on loan at Coventry this season. Fantasy signing I know....

[HibeeMG]

Well, Aberdeen made a mess of it. That's the good thing about Hibs, they don't say anything unless there's something definite to say.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/a...medium=twitter

[RickyS]

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Right, so (I'm going to use a ridiculous example here), our budget is like FIFA 12?

Ie, you have a slider which you can move about to change the ratio of wages:transfer fee's?

FIFA folk ken whits goin on


BTW if Mcpake does sign for Hearts (which I seriously doubt will happen anyway) who would be your next best signing? Pascali from Killie?

That Heiridersan (sp) from Portsmouth? He was on loan at Coventry this season. Fantasy signing I know....

just signed a 3yr deal with killie

[The Voice Of Reason]

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If he signs for them, he signs for them.

Good point likes........10/10 for observation!

[Hibs7]

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I'm with you, I'd have 3 or 4 players on very good money in key positions along wth some good kids and some good signings from lower divisions.

Let's hope PF sees if that way, core of the team on very good money, the rest as you say, it does pay dividends, take McPake and Hanlon as an example.
It can be done within a decent wage structure.

[Stevie Reid]

Football is a great game, but a ridiculous business. Look at Brendan Rodgers, just going to Liverpool having done so well at Swansea - ten years ago Swansea were one game away from being relegated into the conference, but having got their act together (including building a new stadium) they have had a meteoric rise to their 12th place finish in the EPL last year. Conversely, Liverpool spent £100M on players last summer, yet finished 8th - and Robbie Fowler is now saying the following: -

"The new manager will need to bring in new players again to take Liverpool from a top-eight club to a top-four club. That's going to be really difficult. It's a massive challenge."

Whilst John Barnes said: -

"I always say that when you have a philosophy on football, you need the players who can instil that. Are they the type of players who can play the way Rodgers wants them to? They will have to have some adjustment."We have to give the situation time to develop. You have to come to a point where you can't keep changing managers year in, year out. It's been 20 years since we have won league.
"We've been chopping and changing. We need to do what is in the best interests of the club, even if that means we don't qualify for the Champions League in the next three years."

Swansea have a limited budget that they have stuck rigidly to, but have continually got the right managers in over the last few years (Martinez, Sousa and Rodgers) - conversely Liverpool have a huge budget and spent ridiculous amounts of money, yet we have two former players saying that it's a massive challenge to get back into the top four, and that they may to go several years without CL football in order to progress. Whilst it is indeed tough at the top of the EPL, it is utterly ridiculous for Liverpool to be potentially written off as serious contenders for 4th place in the EPL for a number of years, given the amount of money that they have spent on players in recent years.

Now obviously the EPL is a world away from the SPL, but it's all relative, and the rise of teams like Swansea and Norwich (who were never in relegation trouble, as opposed to big spending QPR, who escaped going down on the last day) are proof that getting the right manager(s) in is crucial to the direction and philosophy of a football club - at the top end Man City have shown that spending crazy money only works when you have the right man in place. Liverpool have proven that throwing money around guarantees nothing without the right man in charge (and they're far from the only ones).

In the SPL, Hearts have been quite similar to Liverpool (relatively, in recent years) in that they've enjoyed some cup success but their league form has been disappointing, finishing nowhere near the big guns, bar one season (you can even stretch the analogy to bringing back legendary managers who were previously successful, and it not working out). St. Johnstone are more like your Swansea, who took several years to get to where they want to be (several years spent in the first division), but beginning with Coyle, through McInnes, and now (it seems) with Lomas, have continually got their managerial appointments correct, and flourished within a strict budget.

We are somewhere between the two - nowhere near the crazy budget of Hearts, but certainly have more spending power than St. Johnstone. We have suffered from making the wrong managerial choices too many times in succession, and the constant cycle of acquiring new managers and signing new players, whilst paying out to rid ourselves of the old ones, has seen us arrive where we are. We all acknowledged that after Calderwood we needed to pick a manager who was going to instill all the qualities that we have been lacking for the last few years, and hopefully build us up (gradually, if necessary) over the next few years - hopefully Fenlon is that man, though significant improvements will need to be seen next season. I like him, he seems like the kind of character that we need going forward, and I very much hope that he is.

Even a giant like Liverpool now look as though they are trying to do this, hiring a manager who they hope will gradually lead them to greater success and restore them to where they believe that they should be - and they may well be looking at the model of a much smaller club as a template for their own success. We need quality players in, of that there is no doubt - but working the market properly is far more likely to lead to success than just spending lots of money. We can learn far more from the Swanseas and St. Johnstones of this world than we can the likes of Liverpool and Hearts.

Whether we have the management team and scouting network to deliver is another matter - but fingers crossed we can start progressing from here on in. It can be, and has been, done.

[Andy74]

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Football is a great game, but a ridiculous business. Look at Brendan Rodgers, just going to Liverpool having done so well at Swansea - ten years ago Swansea were one game away from being relegated into the conference, but having got their act together (including building a new stadium) they have had a meteoric rise to their 12th place finish in the EPL last year. Conversely, Liverpool spent £100M on players last summer, yet finished 8th - and Robbie Fowler is now saying the following: -



Whilst John Barnes said: -



Swansea have a limited budget that they have stuck rigidly to, but have continually got the right managers in over the last few years (Martinez, Sousa and Rodgers) - conversely Liverpool have a huge budget and spent ridiculous amounts of money, yet we have two former players saying that it's a massive challenge to get back into the top four, and that they may to go several years without CL football in order to progress. Whilst it is indeed tough at the top of the EPL, it is utterly ridiculous for Liverpool to be potentially written off as serious contenders for 4th place in the EPL for a number of years, given the amount of money that they have spent on players in recent years.

Now obviously the EPL is a world away from the SPL, but it's all relative, and the rise of teams like Swansea and Norwich (who were never in relegation trouble, as opposed to big spending QPR, who escaped going down on the last day) are proof that getting the right manager(s) in is crucial to the direction and philosophy of a football club - at the top end Man City have shown that spending crazy money only works when you have the right man in place. Liverpool have proven that throwing money around guarantees nothing without the right man in charge (and they're far from the only ones).

In the SPL, Hearts have been quite similar to Liverpool (relatively, in recent years) in that they've enjoyed some cup success but their league form has been disappointing, finishing nowhere near the big guns, bar one season (you can even stretch the analogy to bringing back legendary managers who were previously successful, and it not working out). St. Johnstone are more like your Swansea, who took several years to get to where they want to be (several years spent in the first division), but beginning with Coyle, through McInnes, and now (it seems) with Lomas, have continually got their managerial appointments correct, and flourished within a strict budget.

We are somewhere between the two - nowhere near the crazy budget of Hearts, but certainly have more spending power than St. Johnstone. We have suffered from making the wrong managerial choices too many times in succession, and the constant cycle of acquiring new managers and signing new players, whilst paying out to rid ourselves of the old ones, has seen us arrive where we are. We all acknowledged that after Calderwood we needed to pick a manager who was going to instill all the qualities that we have been lacking for the last few years, and hopefully build us up (gradually, if necessary) over the next few years - hopefully Fenlon is that man, though significant improvements will need to be seen next season. I like him, he seems like the kind of character that we need going forward, and I very much hope that he is.

Even a giant like Liverpool now look as though they are trying to do this, hiring a manager who they hope will gradually lead them to greater success and restore them to where they believe that they should be - and they may well be looking at the model of a much smaller club as a template for their own success. We need quality players in, of that there is no doubt - but working the market properly is far more likely to lead to success than just spending lots of money. We can learn far more from the Swanseas and St. Johnstones of this world than we can the likes of Liverpool and Hearts.

Whether we have the management team and scouting network to deliver is another matter - but fingers crossed we can start progressing from here on in. It can be, and has been, done.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Good post and why I can't understand some of the nonsense already being spoken about Fenlon running out of time. He needs to be given the job of building this team properly.

By the way has Brian Murphy, QPR goalkeeper been mentioned as a target yet?

[Dr Jimmy]

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It's also interesting that Paolo Sergio is quoted in this morning's Metro as saying that he wants to know what kind of budget he will have for next season before committing himself to a new contract - so he obviously cannot be involved in any pursuit of McPake.

I would be surprised if Paolo Sergio is still there next season, let alone looking for players.

I have been told by a very good source (boring I know , but he is usually right!) that Sergio only accepted the lower wage at Hearts when he came, as he was still receiving payments by his previous club in honour of his terminated contract. Now that these payments from his previous club have stopped he is struggling to stay at Hearts, especially as they have offered less than what he is currently on.

Added to this, there is no way they will be paying transfer fees for anyone.

[Just Alf]

Meanwhile the Belfast News Letter reports a number of teams in England and Scotland are interested in signing out-of-contract Rangers striker David Healy.

The all-time top goalscorer for the Northern Ireland national team is a target for Crawley Town and Fleetwood Town, while one SPL side is also said to be in the running for the 32-year-old’s signature.


Hmmmm..... would we?



linky - http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/r...medium=twitter

[RickyS]

i heard today we were close to signing Neil Alexander, no inside knowledge or anything just wot i heard.
dunno if he is out of contract or not?

[Stevie Reid]

We may be due some cash from Bamba being sold: -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...sale-1-2330421

[CorrieHibs]

[QUOTE=Sir Alf R;3250754]Meanwhile the Belfast News Letter reports a number of teams in England and Scotland are interested in signing out-of-contract Rangers striker David Healy.

The all-time top goalscorer for the Northern Ireland national team is a target for Crawley Town and Fleetwood Town, while one SPL side is also said to be in the running for the 32-year-old’s signature.


Hmmmm..... would we?

Its St Mirren who are after him

[Just Alf]

[QUOTE=Liam Miller;3250779
Its St Mirren who are after him[/QUOTE]

ah....

[Beefster]

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I know who I believe.

Me too.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/a...-hayes-signing

[ALF TUPPER]

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We may be due some cash from Bamba being sold: -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...sale-1-2330421

Kerchiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing ........................ The tache strikes again !

[Bobby's Cinema]

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So at what point should we allow what we can afford to pay to be dicated by some other team who don't care about debt.

You can't, you stick to your upper level and if that turns out not be enough then tough, that's the reality of the situation and the Board would be failing in their duties if they did not see it this way.

We lost the final but let's not lose our grasp on reality eh?

Sorry but thats guff.

I don't for a minute think he will sign for them regardless. But we talk about changing the culture of being a soft touch. Well that can be said right form the very top. People are already p***** off, rightly or wrongly, that they've had to fork out for season tickets for a final ticket. Every single thing at the club is so fragile at the minute. The importance of signing Mcpake cannot be understated IMO in the outlook of our season.

Its not ridiculous sums of money we're asking for is it. Supposing he is interested, lose a proportionally bigger chunk of the budget, and have the man to build the back four around. An provide the fans with a bawhair of enthusiasm for the new season. To see that the club is doing something.

Rubbish rubbish attitude.

[Seveno]

[Look at ICT / St Jonstone / Motherwell as examples of creating teams that exceed the individuals....if PF can do that we will do well due to resources we have...if he cant we will be back to square one looking for another manager[/QUOTE]

You are quite right. Stuart McCall was quoted after a game that they lost, admitting that they had a squad of average players and it only took a couple playing off-form for things to go badly.

We need a manager like McCall that can organise a team and get them all working for each other. He also needs to do a Mowbray can unearth a gem every now and then to generate cash when sold on.

Let's give Pat the benefit of the doubt and at least a couple of seasons to get it right.

[Andy74]

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Sorry but thats guff.

I don't for a minute think he will sign for them regardless. But we talk about changing the culture of being a soft touch. Well that can be said right form the very top. People are already p***** off, rightly or wrongly, that they've had to fork out for season tickets for a final ticket. Every single thing at the club is so fragile at the minute. The importance of signing Mcpake cannot be understated IMO in the outlook of our season.

Its not ridiculous sums of money we're asking for is it. Supposing he is interested, lose a proportionally bigger chunk of the budget, and have the man to build the back four around. An provide the fans with a bawhair of enthusiasm for the new season. To see that the club is doing something.

Rubbish rubbish attitude.

I's not guff, it's reality, I agree with all you say about his importance on a number of fronts.

All I've said though is that there has to be a limit to what you can be pushed on. If Hearts say they will give him 8k a week should we just keep beating the offer? We pay what we can afford to our we can't sign him, same as any player.

It's nothing to do with attitude, its about the reality of what cash we have any how you can use it.

[Kaiser1962]

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The yams are pobably still paying more than us, but it won't be by much. They are a hopeless business model and it would seem that even Vlad has woken up to the fact that they need to start living within their means from now on. Aye they have a (slightly) larger average gate, but they also have horrendous debts to service. It's gonna be interesting to see how they line up next season. Hopefully without McPake.

Last published accounts state that the Yams are outspending us by a considerable amount. They didnt really trade profitably, despite their propoganda.

[Spike Mandela]

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If he signs for them, he signs for them.

Yes the ancient motto of the SPL's doormats and perennial losers.

We have just been pumped 5-1 in a humiliating fashion by our City rivals who had several players in their team they had out bid us for. How about Hibs start showing a desire to win and actually make sure we start the season with the man Fenlon thought important enough to make captain whilst on loan.

[SHODAN]

Anyone got a very worrying feeling re the deal for Clancy suddenly going quiet?

[--------]

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Anyone got a very worrying feeling re the deal for Clancy suddenly going quiet?

You think? As soon as I saw the story on the BBC website I knew someone would gazump us. Someone always does. Fenlon will be scrabbling around at the beginning of August just like Hughes, just like Calderwood, just like Mixu in the past. I don't think anything has changed at ER.

[darwenhibby]

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You think? As soon as I saw the story on the BBC website I knew someone would gazump us. Someone always does. Fenlon will be scrabbling around at the beginning of August just like Hughes, just like Calderwood, just like Mixu in the past. I don't think anything has changed at ER.

Think theres gonna btrouble at mill

[Aldo]

If the poster is correct re Alexander then I would be v happy at that (cannot see it tho).

As for budgets etc. For me I don't care who they sign as long as they come in and do a good job. Think some folk in here have delusions of granduier. Doesn't matter who we sign they won't be happy.

Yeah I want a winning team but that us going to take a bit if time.... Strong spine if a team and build from there.

Budgets mean nowt unless you spend it wisely. I trust PF to do the job and I am sure he will get us sorted before the start of pre season.

[Beefster]

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Yes the ancient motto of the SPL's doormats and perennial losers.

We have just been pumped 5-1 in a humiliating fashion by our City rivals who had several players in their team they had out bid us for. How about Hibs start showing a desire to win and actually make sure we start the season with the man Fenlon thought important enough to make captain whilst on loan.

I've said similar in the last few weeks. The loser mentality is rife at the club - from chairman, board, players and right down to support.