Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[snooky]

FFS, the oldest political trick in the book.
i.e. Pre-budget the goverment leaks that petrol is going up 20p a gallon - result: outrage
Come the budget, petrol goes up 10p a gallon - result : the populus say "Phew, that's not so bad"

Change the above to the RFC situation
End of 2011-12 season - Let it out that Rangers Newco can come into SPL with no sanctions - result : outrage
Before start of 2012-13 season - Announce Rangers Newco accepted into SPL with some sanctions - result : "Well, I suppose that's okay, better than no sanctions"

Dust hands, job done.

Rangers are happy ....... and so are the rest of their SPL vassals

Here they are ->

[Lungo--Drom]

Me too If this happens then I will cease to recognise the Huns as a team and will not go to any match at ER that the fraudulent entity takes part in.
I never went to the 'big hoose' anyway, I'd need so much garlic in my pockets I wouldn't fit through the turnstiles

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I went through that initially.............then realised it would hurt my team more than those goat sh**ging eejits .

So.........if it happens, I'll just boycott Huns games,

[Littlest Hobo]

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Doncaster has clearly been sent out to gage opinion so at the risk of repeating myself, if Rangers are back in the SPL next season then I will never be back.
There is only one thing that would get me back would be a meaningful change in the form of a salary cap that brought about genuine sporting integrity.

I agree, the only thing that would get me back is the guarantee of a level playing field. I'm no being taken for a mug anymore.

[Saorsa]

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Doncaster has clearly been sent out to gage opinion so at the risk of repeating myself, if Rangers are back in the SPL next season then I will never be back.
There is only one thing that would get me back would be a meaningful change in the form of a salary cap that brought about genuine sporting integrity.

This

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I always knew the SPL was incompetent and struggled to make rational decisions but after hearing this I genuinely believe they are corrupt.

I will boycott castle grayskul but it won't make much difference as I've only been twice and hated giving those bigoted cheating ****bags money both times.

Boycotting Huns games at ER doesn't seem to make much sense as it ultimately only hurts hibs although unfortunately it seems necessary to get the point across. Assuming there are others, let's see how that affects the revenue from rangers staying in the SPL.

Neil Doncaster - you are a corrupt ****ing idiot and are ruining our game. You have no understanding of sporting integrity and have no concept of what is the right thing to do. You're totally incompetent and utterly stupid. Now **** off and lets have someone with honesty and common sense, two qualities that should be prerequisits for any job you clearly do not have. ****er.

[snooky]

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It may well be hurting our own club by boycotting them v rangers but boycotting what exactly?
We'd only be there to promote rangers in a stitched up league.
We'd be better resigning from the spl in protest and go to the third division instead.
Integrity over cash.
I'll wait for an outcome before deciding what to do.

Maybe it would have been better (not financially of course) to have been relegated.
At least we would be playing against bona fide teams, some who may have been naughty it the past but took their punishment like men..

[Brando7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...ign=sportsound

Take your nose out doncasters ass Mr Johnston

[Saorsa]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...ign=sportsound

Take your nose out doncasters ass Mr Johnston

what a ****in' ****er, what hope is there for Scottish fitba with bellends like him and donkeycaster involved in the game. I'd be ****in' raging if the chairman of my club came out with stuff like that. I'd be interested tae ken what the killie fans think of this tool bending over for the stickies.

[snooky]

"Also, some people in football have overlooked the fact that Rangers were penalised 10 points, the maximum penalty under SPL rules, which effectively ended their challenge for the league title."


Brilliant!

Mind you, for years of cheating, fraud & the recent intimidation, the ten point penalty does seem a bit on the hefty side when you think of it.

[Jones28]

Ahh here we go...

You'd never have thought that both the SPL and an indebted club would bend over backwards for Rangers.

Anyone for sporting integrity?

[Hibbyradge]

We need the SPL and SFA to understand the consequences if they allow Newco Rangers back into the top league etc.

Not one with the usual emotive, partisan sentiments, but an accurate and politically weighty statement that can gather support across Scotland and influence the decision makers.

Now, we've got loads of intelligent members on hibs.net so who'll take this on?

It needs to be done quickly though.

Admins: Please allow this to run as a separate thread for a while. If it's merged with the big thread, it will be lost and won't happen and I really do believe we need it.

[R'Albin]

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We need the SPL and SFA to understand the consequences if they allow Newco Rangers back into the top league etc.

Not one with the usual emotive, partisan sentiments, but an accurate and politically weighty statement that can gather support across Scotland and influence the decision makers.

Now, we've got loads of intelligent members on hibs.net so who'll take this on?

It needs to be done quickly though.

Admins: Please allow this to run as a separate thread for a while. If it's merged with the big thread, it will be lost and won't happen and I really do believe we need it.

They obviously do a good job of hiding themselves then

All joking aside I totally agree, the petitions done so far have been blatantly bias and would not be taken seriously by any authorities.

Edit - They did what they set out to do though and got our opinions heard though, I may add.

[Ozyhibby]

I would offer to do it but I'm no good at writing and I hate those Hun b*******. there is no way I could be objective.

[Ryan91]

Maybe if we could get an email for Neil Doncaster, we could send him emails telling him where to shove his "CVA and Newco are the same" idea.

[hibee92]

I think what we need to aim towards is getting national attention. Focusing this matter within hibs.net will, unfortunately, not grasp enough attention. In saying that, starting off a petition here and shipping it off to other forums (Pie and bovril must be targetted for example) wouldn't be a bad idea.

The best way to go about this is to use this thread to raise a number of points to show the disgust towards the notion of a newco being granted immediate submission to the SPL.

Formerly punished clubs should be massively involved in this, Livingston, Dundee, Motherwell, and (although more problematic) Gretna. The fans of these clubs and any "higher uppers" should have a say in this matter.

If possible, clubs from England that have suffered from the same punishments could be contacted purely for the fans perspective in order to show a bit of pressure.

All the points raised should then be drafted into a petition of some sort and shipped off to the other forums.

One pivotal point I'd raise before any of this is started is that it is very VERY rare for a petition to kick off without some form of infuential 'named' backing. By which I mean someone with experience in Scottish football and a well respected relatively big name.

I also think that the possiblity of a Scottish football boycott should a newco be entered would turn a few heads.

Just to get the ball rolling

[Togs91]

This may be a rediculous statement, so ill apologise now! A petition sounds like a great idea and could work, and i beleive you would have to have some sort of 'football celebrity', a head which would be noticed and gather media attention. Rod seems to want 'sporting integrity' is he the man to kick start this? Or is that rediculous as he would put hibs under scrutiny?

It would be great if the hibs support were to get together and go knocking on rods door asking him to put our views across. Unfortunately this is not the best timing with the radical changes that MUST happen at hibs over the summer, and we come first, not rankgers!

[FitbaFolkKen]

My concern with the whole situation is that there are more clubs who haven't suffered the tougher sanctions, if you look here you can see that only 2 clubs have been demoted to the bottom division. there appear to be plenty of other cases to justify a points deduction etc... rather than the tougher sanctions we all want. The only positive is that they seem to be more stringent now than in previous years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adminis...sh_football%29

There are also examples in other countries of allowing newco's straight back in. For example Parma in 2004 were a mess and reformed. The Italian Football Authorities allowed them back into Serie A. I believe there were financial restrictions in place but haven't done any research into it so couldn't say.

Any approach needs to be reasoned, and possibly these decisions highlighted above have been negligent. Parma finished bottom of Serie A in their first season as a newco, does this mean they were out of their depth? Could this potentially happen to Rangers? Could we be ruining their youth players by exposing them to the SPL? What damage does this do to Scottish football and their standing in Europe? Why were Livingston/Gretna demoted and why was that the right decision? Why should the rules change now?

The talk of someone named leading a campaign makes sense, but awareness would have to be brought on various media such as the radio, tv, internet in the form of debates, blogs, tv/radio interviews. This probably should have been in motion months ago though, as it is with a decision probably very soon to come I think Doncaster and chums will be happy to have them back.

[Spike Mandela]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...ign=sportsound

Take your nose out doncasters ass Mr Johnston

I think it is very clear from the various statements in the media by different Chairmen which clubs are worried that a loss of Rangers in the league will see their own team hurtle towards administration and those that are financially secure enough to uphold sporting integrity.

Mr Johnston's club is clearly in the former category.

[TrickyNicky]

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I think it is very clear from the various statements in the media by different Chairmen which clubs are worried that a loss of Rangers in the league will see their own team hurtle towards administration and those that are financially secure enough to uphold sporting integrity.

Mr Johnston's club is clearly in the former category.

Maybe Mr Johnston thinks it's best that the punishment be more lenient in case there's a wee slip-up in his own clubs' paperwork in the future.

[Beefster]

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We need the SPL and SFA to understand the consequences if they allow Newco Rangers back into the top league etc.

Not one with the usual emotive, partisan sentiments, but an accurate and politically weighty statement that can gather support across Scotland and influence the decision makers.

Now, we've got loads of intelligent members on hibs.net so who'll take this on?

It needs to be done quickly though.

Admins: Please allow this to run as a separate thread for a while. If it's merged with the big thread, it will be lost and won't happen and I really do believe we need it.

It's nigh on impossible to get an 'impartial' statement/petition as everyone doing it has an opinion. The main one done so far was about as consensual amongst non-Rangers fans as you can get and has effectively been ignored by the SPL/SFA, died a complete death and we're now in the farcical position where no-one that wasn't actually at the meeting is allowed to know what was discussed, despite the meeting apparently being in 'our names'.

I won't be letting anyone else speak for me. Hibs know how I feel. If I'm vehemently opposed to the eventual outcome, I'll do what I think is right.

[bighairyfaeleith]

if rangers are allowed back into the spl then there is only one route for hibs, and that is to resign.

**** boycotts, I don't want to be in there league, if they want the SPL so bad let them play in it on there own.

[Caversham Green]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...ign=sportsound

Take your nose out doncasters ass Mr Johnston

Another solicitor producing half-truths to cloud the issue - it's clearly a concerted campaign.

Johnson says (or gives the impression) that Rangers have been punished three times for going into administration - thay haven't and as a solicitor he must be fully aware of that, as must Doncaster who is also a solicitor by trade.

The only punishment Rangers have suffered for going into administration is the 10 point deduction and if they achieve a CVA they will not suffer any more punishment for that. The exclusion from Europe is for non-compliance with the financial reporting regulations - they would have suffered it whether or not they were in administration, and the fine and signing embargo were for supplying the SFA with false documents (arguably fraudulent) failing to pay taxes as they fell due and bringing the game into disrepute - again, nothing to do with administration.

The question of 'double contracts' is still to be considered and to my mind that is potentially the most serious misdemeanour yet since it could (and should) result in the voiding of all their achievements for the period it took place and their expulsion from both the SPL and SFA. In short, it is deliberate and premeditated fraud.

We must not let the mealy-mouthed authorities or the cowardly and spineless club chairmen/owners play these matters down or Scottish football will die.

Solicitors? Worse than f*****g accountants.

[ballengeich]

Two quotes from Mr Johnston's statement :-
1 "But there are legal differences and what people have to bear in mind is that a football club has always been viewed by the football authorities as being something separate from who owns the football club."
2 "You have got to be very careful not to come in too heavily with penalties and points deductions or financial penalties going forward which actually put people off investing in that club and trying to make it healthy," he said.
"After all, it's not the new owners who have done the damage, it is the previous owners."

IMO he's contradicting himself by saying first that the club is a continuing entity regardless of its owners then saying second that a club should be allowed to avoid responsibility for previous misdeeds by changing owners.

My concern about the future options for Rangers is not the difference in the settlement to the creditors, but that a Newco will be used to get out of sanctions for the behaviour of the club prior to entering administration. Punishments imposed so far are for actions during the current season. No charges regarding breaches of SPL rules in previous seasons have yet been put forward. A Newco should not be allowed to evade these.

I've thought also about proposed boycotts. My own decision is that I would not stop going to ER if I was certain that Hibs had voted in favour of sporting integrity. I shall not go to away games at the grounds of clubs who did not vote that way. I don't think I'll ever set foot in Rugby Park again.

[Liberal Hibby]

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We need the SPL and SFA to understand the consequences if they allow Newco Rangers back into the top league etc.

Not one with the usual emotive, partisan sentiments, but an accurate and politically weighty statement that can gather support across Scotland and influence the decision makers.

Now, we've got loads of intelligent members on hibs.net so who'll take this on?

It needs to be done quickly though.

Admins: Please allow this to run as a separate thread for a while. If it's merged with the big thread, it will be lost and won't happen and I really do believe we need it.

I agree that there needs to be concerted pressure from fans to counteract the spin from Doncaster et al. I'm not sure a petition is the best way.

I've have thought there are two avenues fans could explore - firstly the FSA/Supporters Direct who have the resources and experience to lobby both football authorities and politicians as well as media function. I haven't heard anything from them about the Rangers situation - so maybe they need a bit of prodding (as it were).

The other place might be through the Tartan Army/Scotland supporters association - being representative of supporters of all Scottish football clubs - don't know how organised they are in reality - but they always seem to be able to wheel out a spokesperson or two when required.

[Sylar]

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We need the SPL and SFA to understand the consequences if they allow Newco Rangers back into the top league etc.

Not one with the usual emotive, partisan sentiments, but an accurate and politically weighty statement that can gather support across Scotland and influence the decision makers.

Now, we've got loads of intelligent members on hibs.net so who'll take this on?

It needs to be done quickly though.

Admins: Please allow this to run as a separate thread for a while. If it's merged with the big thread, it will be lost and won't happen and I really do believe we need it.

I'm waiting on a model simulation to finish running on my laptop, so can't get on with work quite yet, so here's my drafted effort

Dear sirs,

We, the undersigned, submit this petition to the Scottish Footballing Authorities in regard to the potential readmission of a NewCo Rangers FC into the SPL, with representative viewpoints from across the broad base of supporters of the 41 clubs in the professional Scottish setup.

The discussion of the fate of Rangers Football Club has been extensive since the club were placed into administration on February 14th, 2012. Now, as we move into this closed season period with the future of the club still in substantial doubt, we feel that the time has come to make our collective voices heard without prejudice or bias, to provide you, the decision makers, with the mindset of the wider community of Scottish Football fans.

In recent weeks, particularly since the takeover of Rangers by Charles Green, much of the discussion has started to focus on the likely fate of any NewCo Rangers and what impact such consequences could have on Scottish Football as a whole. We have been subjected to opinions from players, managers, owners, chairmen, media personalities and even politicians about how strong or weak Scottish Football would be without Glasgow Rangers. We have been informed that any TV deal would be null and void without Sky having the Old Firm games and we have been told that many sponsors would withdraw from the league should Rangers not remain within the SPL.

More recently, we have started to hear from many of you gentlemen within the halls of Hampden, indicating further that we need a strong Rangers. Mr Neil Doncaster has also recently indicated that any such NewCo may be allowed direct entry back into the SPL with no sanctions likely to be imposed, stating that "NewCos have been allowed within UK football for many years". Whilst the above is indeed true, we believe that no precedent has been set for allowing any club who exits a league structure via insolvency to enter back into the setup at the top level. Consider please for one moment if Rangers had been nearer the foot of the table upon entering administration and had been relegated to the SFL Division one based on points. Unlikely as this scenario seems, if it occurs in light of a young NewCo Rangers team playing in the SPL (owing to the imposed transfer embargo forcing the introduction of inexperienced youth players) after readmission, would the SPL take strides to ensure they were saved from relegation, "for the good of Scottish Football"? Such an action threatens to open a very large can of worms indeed.

To reintroduce any NewCo Rangers into the top level of the SPL would completely void any integrity in Scottish football and this sirs is worth much more than television deals, sponsorship and appeasing potential investors. Many supporters have considered the potentiality of a NewCo Rangers being readmitted to the league setup without sanctions being imposed and the widely held consensus is that if such an occurrence comes to pass regular attendance at games in Scotland would drop at an exponential level. In no other league setup worldwide has a football club ever gone into liquidation and been allowed to continue in the top division as a new company and having the SPL become the first would add further negative press to our already negatively perceived league.

We wish to be assured that we exist on a level playing field, where the rules are not established to preserve the existence of the few and that sporting integrity is something other than a media-derived buzzword which has been circulating since this saga began to unfold 4 months ago. We wish to see any NewCo Rangers being forced to reapply to the Scottish Football League at the lowest level (like any new entry before them) and working their way back up. We ask this in the interests of Scottish Football.

Yours,

[hibs0666]

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I'm waiting on a model simulation to finish running on my laptop, so can't get on with work quite yet, so here's my drafted effort

Dear sirs,

We, the undersigned, submit this petition to the Scottish Footballing Authorities in regard to the potential readmission of a NewCo Rangers FC into the SPL, with representative viewpoints from across the broad base of supporters of the 41 clubs in the professional Scottish setup.

The discussion of the fate of Rangers Football Club has been extensive since the club were placed into administration on February 14th, 2012. Now, as we move into this closed season period with the future of the club still in substantial doubt, we feel that the time has come to make our collective voices heard without prejudice or bias, to provide you, the decision makers, with the mindset of the wider community of Scottish Football fans.

In recent weeks, particularly since the takeover of Rangers by Charles Green, much of the discussion has started to focus on the likely fate of any NewCo Rangers and what impact such consequences could have on Scottish Football as a whole. We have been subjected to opinions from players, managers, owners, chairmen, media personalities and even politicians about how strong or weak Scottish Football would be without Glasgow Rangers. We have been informed that any TV deal would be null and void without Sky having the Old Firm games and we have been told that many sponsors would withdraw from the league should Rangers not remain within the SPL.

More recently, we have started to hear from many of you gentlemen within the halls of Hampden, indicating further that we need a strong Rangers. Mr Neil Doncaster has also recently indicated that any such NewCo may be allowed direct entry back into the SPL with no sanctions likely to be imposed, stating that "NewCos have been allowed within UK football for many years". Whilst the above is indeed true, we believe that no precedent has been set for allowing any club who exits a league structure via insolvency to enter back into the setup at the top level. Consider please for one moment if Rangers had been nearer the foot of the table upon entering administration and had been relegated to the SFL Division one based on points. Unlikely as this scenario seems, if it occurs in light of a young NewCo Rangers team playing in the SPL (owing to the imposed transfer embargo forcing the introduction of inexperienced youth players) after readmission, would the SPL take strides to ensure they were saved from relegation, "for the good of Scottish Football"? Such an action threatens to open a very large can of worms indeed.

To reintroduce any NewCo Rangers into the top level of the SPL would completely void any integrity in Scottish football and this sirs is worth much more than television deals, sponsorship and appeasing potential investors. Many supporters have considered the potentiality of a NewCo Rangers being readmitted to the league setup without sanctions being imposed and the widely held consensus is that if such an occurrence comes to pass regular attendance at games in Scotland would drop at an exponential level. In no other league setup worldwide has a football club ever gone into liquidation and been allowed to continue in the top division as a new company and having the SPL become the first would add further negative press to our already negatively perceived league.

We wish to be assured that we exist on a level playing field, where the rules are not established to preserve the existence of the few and that sporting integrity is something other than a media-derived buzzword which has been circulating since this saga began to unfold 4 months ago. We wish to see any NewCo Rangers being forced to reapply to the Scottish Football League at the lowest level (like any new entry before them) and working their way back up. We ask this in the interests of Scottish Football.

Yours,

Too long.

[Sylar]

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Too long.

I might alter that and send it as an email to the SPL actually.

Not that they'll pay it any attention mind...

[poolman]

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I might alter that and send it as an email to the SPL actually.

Not that they'll pay it any attention mind...

How about,

Dear Sirs,

Liquidate the barstewards

Yours

[Hibrandenburg]

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How about,

Dear Sirs,

Liquidate the barstewards

Yours

Far too polite. We need to get over the strength of feeling on this. Apart from that quite good.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think you're missing the main point, a Rangers newco is not Rangers, it's a new football club. Doncaster and Johnston are flat out lying, there is no such thing as a club entity separate from the company and never has been. Professional football clubs in Scotland are all single corporate entities.

It's not a readmission, it's a new admission.

Newcos have not been commonly allowed in UK football as a way of exiting administration. This is also a blatant lie. The only possible precedent is Leeds United who had an agreed CVA that was challenged by HMRC due to murky circumstances.

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I'm waiting on a model simulation to finish running on my laptop, so can't get on with work quite yet, so here's my drafted effort

Dear sirs,

We, the undersigned, submit this petition to the Scottish Footballing Authorities in regard to the potential readmission of a NewCo Rangers FC into the SPL, with representative viewpoints from across the broad base of supporters of the 41 clubs in the professional Scottish setup.

The discussion of the fate of Rangers Football Club has been extensive since the club were placed into administration on February 14th, 2012. Now, as we move into this closed season period with the future of the club still in substantial doubt, we feel that the time has come to make our collective voices heard without prejudice or bias, to provide you, the decision makers, with the mindset of the wider community of Scottish Football fans.

In recent weeks, particularly since the takeover of Rangers by Charles Green, much of the discussion has started to focus on the likely fate of any NewCo Rangers and what impact such consequences could have on Scottish Football as a whole. We have been subjected to opinions from players, managers, owners, chairmen, media personalities and even politicians about how strong or weak Scottish Football would be without Glasgow Rangers. We have been informed that any TV deal would be null and void without Sky having the Old Firm games and we have been told that many sponsors would withdraw from the league should Rangers not remain within the SPL.

More recently, we have started to hear from many of you gentlemen within the halls of Hampden, indicating further that we need a strong Rangers. Mr Neil Doncaster has also recently indicated that any such NewCo may be allowed direct entry back into the SPL with no sanctions likely to be imposed, stating that "NewCos have been allowed within UK football for many years". Whilst the above is indeed true, we believe that no precedent has been set for allowing any club who exits a league structure via insolvency to enter back into the setup at the top level. Consider please for one moment if Rangers had been nearer the foot of the table upon entering administration and had been relegated to the SFL Division one based on points. Unlikely as this scenario seems, if it occurs in light of a young NewCo Rangers team playing in the SPL (owing to the imposed transfer embargo forcing the introduction of inexperienced youth players) after readmission, would the SPL take strides to ensure they were saved from relegation, "for the good of Scottish Football"? Such an action threatens to open a very large can of worms indeed.

To reintroduce any NewCo Rangers into the top level of the SPL would completely void any integrity in Scottish football and this sirs is worth much more than television deals, sponsorship and appeasing potential investors. Many supporters have considered the potentiality of a NewCo Rangers being readmitted to the league setup without sanctions being imposed and the widely held consensus is that if such an occurrence comes to pass regular attendance at games in Scotland would drop at an exponential level. In no other league setup worldwide has a football club ever gone into liquidation and been allowed to continue in the top division as a new company and having the SPL become the first would add further negative press to our already negatively perceived league.

We wish to be assured that we exist on a level playing field, where the rules are not established to preserve the existence of the few and that sporting integrity is something other than a media-derived buzzword which has been circulating since this saga began to unfold 4 months ago. We wish to see any NewCo Rangers being forced to reapply to the Scottish Football League at the lowest level (like any new entry before them) and working their way back up. We ask this in the interests of Scottish Football.

Yours,