Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Paisley Hibby]

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I have to assume it is tagged to the clubs licence, so a newco trying to claim it has the old clubs licence would surely inherit the punishments.

At that point the newco surely cannot try and switch over player contracts, which it couldn't do anyway, and will have to make do with a team totally composed of kids. Relegation fodder for sure.

So with these punishments in place there best option is either a brand new club applying to division 3, or buying another club and renaming it.

I don't see how it can. Equally, I don't see how it could inherit the Oldco's history (ie all the trophy's it has 'won') or it's players. I think a Newco would involve a completely new start.

[green glory]

http://t.co/tRLugCu2

[Allant1981]

when do the players go back on to their full wage?

[alfie]

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Rangers supporters will be shocked and bitterly disappointed by this decision and will find it hard to take that the club has been so heavily punished for the actions of club office bearers.

Fixed that for you!

Cant believe they thought that this was a valid reason for an appeal!

[alfie]

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when do the players go back on to their full wage?

I believe that it is the start of June.

Would I also be correct in thinking that it was reported that some had clauses added to their contract that if Craigie was still in charge that they could walk? Would this be why Duff & Duffer are in such a hurry to conclude the deal with the Green man?

[ScottB]

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I don't see how it can. Equally, I don't see how it could inherit the Oldco's history (ie all the trophy's it has 'won') or it's players. I think a Newco would involve a completely new start.

If it was a newco applying for the third division, I agree, it's a fresh start. However, if it is their preferred idea of a newco buying the current Rangers club licence to stay in the SPL, then for me it should surely come with the punishments that are attached to the club.

[Twa Cairpets]

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when do the players go back on to their full wage?

When they sign for Villa / Southampton / Cardiff etc.

[down-the-slope]

Early night for me...so missed the good news...

I expected this to happen - and glad it has given a bit of respectability back to SFA / game here - but thought it might be next week before we heard....

I do wonder if Green had a 'Walking Away' clause (sorry couldn't resist ) if sanction was still in force.....


So i'm now jumping about Saturday.....and after that 1st JUNE...transfer window open...wages back to full pay at the big house....the rush to get out the front door will be greater than the fire exit at a burning petro chemical plant

[Cabbage East]

Where is that token hun that used to post on here these days?

[jonty]

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Aw naw. More gnashing of teeth, hair out by the roots and veiled threats of repercussions ............. and that's just Chick Young

i think i've found a flaw in your post


(doing a google image search for bald chick young, with safe search off, isnt recommended on a work or family pc!)

[Paisley Hibby]

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If it was a newco applying for the third division, I agree, it's a fresh start. However, if it is their preferred idea of a newco buying the current Rangers club licence to stay in the SPL, then for me it should surely come with the punishments that are attached to the club.

Whether it's in the SPL or the SFL Div 3, a Newco is a fresh start. That's why I hope the Oldco survives but has to limp on wounded for years to come.

[Gettin' Auld]

Oh dear, they sure are raging on the hun sites.

Posted Yesterday, 10:04 PM

They have the cheek to talk about fit n proper rule the ****in sfa are the ones to talk even animal from the muppets could do a better job or the dog that won bgt ffs

Ha Ha Ha!! Gaun yersel Einstein, you get them telt.

[Just Alf]

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http://t.co/tRLugCu2

Excellent!

The letter to the "Creditors" is also a piece of pure gold!

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...dear-creditor/

[lapsedhibee]

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Excellent!

The letter to the "Creditors" is also a piece of pure gold!

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...dear-creditor/

[lapsedhibee]

@alextomo winding up Hun neanderthals by putting Hail Hail at the end of a tweet.

[number9dream]

When explaining their [very good] reasons for rejecting the appeal, the new panel pointed out that Rangers will be allowed to offer new deals to those players out of contract in in next few weeks - Aluko, McCulloch etc.
They say Rangers have more than 40 players at their disposal just now.
It's disgusting that those interested in buying the club and associated with the club, like Jardine, are even considering spending a penny on players when they owe others more than £100m!
The paltry £8m that Green & his mystery co are prepared to offer creditors can easily be inflated by selling McGregor, Davis, Whittaker, Naismith etc. This should be a compulsion - D&P are meant to be representing the best interests of those owed money.
Rangers could carry on just fine without Murray Park as well - they can run round some cones in Glasgow Green - so get that place sold as well!


They've also been keeping on Media House PR at £20,000 per month while retaining all of Rangers' own in-house media staff. D&P are a joke!

[Hibbyradge]

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i think i've found a flaw in your post


(doing a google image search for bald chick young, with safe search off, isnt recommended on a work or family pc!)

[ScottB]

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Whether it's in the SPL or the SFL Div 3, a Newco is a fresh start. That's why I hope the Oldco survives but has to limp on wounded for years to come.

Well yeah, that's how it should be, but their argument to stay in the SPL is that they are buying the current Rangers club license to compete in the SPL, my theory was that these punishments would / should be attached to the SPL licence they want to transfer to the newco.

That assumes that they would be allowed to do this anyway, or that they will even try. Division 3 is really starting to look like the better option for them.

[Alan62]

For me, there are no options for them. SPL isn't an option, SFL isn't an option. There have never been any options. It's just a long, fascinating charade that can only end in oblivion. The crimes are too severe, the cheating has been systematic over a long period of time. With every passing day, we get another revelation of the hideous truth and every day the apologists trot out the same crap about being 'too big to fail' and the 'SPL needs them'.

I have always believed it's over for Rangers. But it continues to remain fascinating watching it all fall apart.

[down-the-slope]

Day 93 in the Big Hun Hoose......

Its all gone Mammeries up as Big SFA Brother has refused to relent on the punishments handed out for house mates wrong doings....lots of moaning and griping by house mates that its not fair - failing to remember they went in as volunteers, and could have walked away at any point - and pleading for the viewers to vote to save them.......

[ScottB]

I really think there is a very high chance there will be no Rangers at all next season.

They are going to spend till some point in July trying to get a CVA which has no hope of going through, by this stage I imagine the vast majority of the playing side will have gone. Now conceivably the CVA process could drag on and on, leaving the current club to start next season 15 points down with a team of kids and whoever decides to stay on.

More likely is that in July they try and pull a newco. This will likely be far more difficult that they imagine, creditors could kick up a fuss, players will try and walk if they want, the SPL would have to vote them in, Livingston and other clubs (Dundee / Dunfermline / other clubs missing out on a possible promotion) will go to court, ourselves and Celtic at least will hurl our toys out the collective pram... They could easily find themselves rejected from the SPL and not have the time to put together a newco for the start of the SFL season, or the SPL season for that matter, if as I suggested their current punishments follow the SPL licence to the newco, they'll only be able to sign kids (forget D&P's transferring of contracts nonsense, that'll never hold water).


At this stage I think that unless they wake up, smell the coffee and go the SFL3 newco route, or buy an existing SFL club and rename / move it, there could well be no Rangers at all next season.

[lapsedhibee]

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At this stage I think that unless they wake up, smell the coffee and go the SFL3 newco route, or buy an existing SFL club and rename / move it, there could well be no Rangers at all next season.

No Huns next season, there will be no Huns next season. No Huns next seeeeeeson, there will be no Huns next season.

I can't imagine how The Peepil's sense of victimhood will flourish if Greig gets arrested for fraud:

TOMOBLOG:

At this hour – around 1.30am we have not yet received the full reasoning of the Appelate Tribunal – the appeal body to whom Rangers went to try to reduce their punishment. Yet we already know enough to conclude that Rangers FC are beyond question lucky to exist at all now – certainly the luckiest club in British football right now, simply because they’re still allowed to trade as a football club.
Surprised that they upheld the fine and 1 year ban on buying new players? Hardly. And nor – critically – do I think Charles Green and the Mysterious Twenty of his consortium will be either.
They want to buy a club which nearly – seriously nearly – got expelled from Scottish football completely for a massive £12m tax fraud.
The Appeal Tribunal writes: “The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.”
Bluntly: Green’s damned lucky that Rangers exists at all, that there is a thing called Rangers to buy. To borrow the tribunal’s favourite phrase about men-in-suits-in-Rangers – he had to have known what was going on and how near this club has come to annihilation.

So no, nobody should be surprised that against that threat, Rangers are merely banned from buying new talent for a year. A year in which they’re already banned from Europe as all prospective buyers are aware. Mr Green and The twenty mysterons of his consortium obviously knew all about this and can thus only be relieved there’s still a club to buy.
The second critical fact here is again, the appeal tribunal goes out of its way to hold the club responsible for massive tax fraud – not simply the former owner Craig Whyte. The “club” in law is its chairman and board of directors of the plc. Look carefully at their wording:
“The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct to determine that the conduct involved – especially the deliberate non-payment of very large sums, estimated in excess of £13m of tax in the form of PAYE, NIC and VAT – was attributable to the club as a member of the Scottish FA.”
Now, remember what it was that the tribunal determined? That key named directors at Rangers at that time: John McClelland, John Greig, David King, Ken Olverman and Martin Bain (he of the shredded contracts as revealed by C4 News) had to have known what was going on and did nothing about it.
This was the ‘club’ in law. The directors. These men of Rangers who walked away from Rangers.
Since what was going on was ‘deliberate non payment’ income tax, national insurance and VAT to the value of £13m it is reasonable to ask whether these men, along with Mr Whyte, are now going to face a police investigation for possible fraud. I shall be making inquiries from first thing.
Quite possibly they are innocent men, shut out from what was happening by the ever-increasingly-absent Craig Whyte. Though the tribunal has already stated they must have known something very wrong was happening at Ibrox, yet chose to do little or nothing about it.
Mr Whyte is accused by an eminent legal tribunal of directly masterminding a deliberate non-payment of tax. But the whole point here is that tribunal first and now appelate tribunal explicitly hold the ‘club’ (the directors) responsible for this joint enterprise of non-payment. They do not just blame Craig Whyte.
Craig Whyte’s reaction? No change there since he’s always regarded the entire procedure as a “kangaroo court”, “a complete joke” and “a total charade”. He will not bother to appeal, that being his view.
As for the football side of things? Well, there is a football side of things and since Ibrox has been the scene of a major tax fraud, Rangers are exceedingly lucky that this even exists today.
The appeal tribunal duly notes there are 40 players who can still turn up next season because the buy-ban doesn’t stop the club extending contracts of these 40 already on the books:
“…the Appellate Tribunal recognises that the Disciplinary Tribunal decision does not affect Rangers’ ability to extend the contracts of existing professional players, including those whose contracts will expire at the end of this season and including also those currently on loan to other clubs. The Appellate Tribunal observes that Rangers FC have over 40 professional players in this category.”
But footy’s nothing if not short as a career. The window for glory is just a few seasons for most players. Ryan Giggs is an exception proving a brutal rule: life’s short at the top.
Realistically, the better the player, the more likely they are to look elsewhere for glory and european football, when many contracts expire next month at Rangers.
Clearly, from all this, the only reasonable response from Ibrox should be relief and gratitude that they still exist. Scores of clubs, charities, individuals, businesses, councils and colleges across Scotland, the UK and beyond are owed money by this football club – and so are all of us owed at least £13m in deliberate unpaid taxes aka fraud aka serious crime.
The only thing Scotland and the UK taxpayer need hear from Rangers PLC today is the word “sorry”. That’s about as likely as a Craig Whyte pitch-side press conference at Ibrox.

[Jack]

Stolen from elsewhere (X2) :-

"The appeal meeting will come to order.
Please rise for the learned Judge Carloway.
Please be seated."

Judge Carloway: "Will the counsel for the defence state the grounds for the appeal?"

Richard Keene QC: "We are the people."

Judge Carloway: "Appeal dismissed."

[Kojock]

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I really think there is a very high chance there will be no Rangers at all next season.

If thats the case how will the SPL survive, wait a minute I have a quote here from a certain Twatty Smith from The Herald on Friday 16th October 2009 in response to the Bigot Brothers forming a breakaway Atlantic League.

Unlike many senior figures in the Scottish game, Smith has no fears for the wellbeing of the clubs Celtic and Rangers would leave behind in the SPL if they did move on to help form a new league.

In fact, he is adamant that other clubs having an increased chance of winning the national title for the first time since Aberdeen back in 1985 would result in vastly increased gates and general renewed interest.

So can you explain to us mere mortals, Twatty whats changed in the last two and a half years for you to think that the SPL will die without the Huns.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hun admin:

“The club will consider seeking review of this most disappointing decision and it is a matter of regret that the certainty and finality Rangers sought on this matter has not been achieved"

Eh? I think you'll find it has. Twice. Now suck it up.

[lapsedhibee]

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Hun admin:

Eh? I think you'll find it has. Twice. Now suck it up.

How the **** D&D thought there could be any 'finality' in advance of the double-contracts issue and the BTC is a mystery. Shirley no professional outfit can be that confused. They must be working to some seriously corrupt agenda.

[blackpoolhibs]

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If thats the case how will the SPL survive, wait a minute I have a quote here from a certain Twatty Smith from The Herald on Friday 16th October 2009 in response to the Bigot Brothers forming a breakaway Atlantic League.




So can you explain to us mere mortals, Twatty whats changed in the last two and a half years for you to think that the SPL will die without the Huns.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_...ould_quit_spl/

[ScottB]

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Hun admin:



Eh? I think you'll find it has. Twice. Now suck it up.

Well since the finality that Rangers sought was getting off with it, then he is right, they haven't achieved that yet!

You would think the creditors would object another wasting of cash on legal fees if they try and appeal it yet again...

[Caversham Green]

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No Huns next season, there will be no Huns next season. No Huns next seeeeeeson, there will be no Huns next season.

I can't imagine how The Peepil's sense of victimhood will flourish if Greig gets arrested for fraud:

TOMOBLOG:

At this hour – around 1.30am we have not yet received the full reasoning of the Appelate Tribunal – the appeal body to whom Rangers went to try to reduce their punishment. Yet we already know enough to conclude that Rangers FC are beyond question lucky to exist at all now – certainly the luckiest club in British football right now, simply because they’re still allowed to trade as a football club.
Surprised that they upheld the fine and 1 year ban on buying new players? Hardly. And nor – critically – do I think Charles Green and the Mysterious Twenty of his consortium will be either.
They want to buy a club which nearly – seriously nearly – got expelled from Scottish football completely for a massive £12m tax fraud.
The Appeal Tribunal writes: “The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.”
Bluntly: Green’s damned lucky that Rangers exists at all, that there is a thing called Rangers to buy. To borrow the tribunal’s favourite phrase about men-in-suits-in-Rangers – he had to have known what was going on and how near this club has come to annihilation.

So no, nobody should be surprised that against that threat, Rangers are merely banned from buying new talent for a year. A year in which they’re already banned from Europe as all prospective buyers are aware. Mr Green and The twenty mysterons of his consortium obviously knew all about this and can thus only be relieved there’s still a club to buy.
The second critical fact here is again, the appeal tribunal goes out of its way to hold the club responsible for massive tax fraud – not simply the former owner Craig Whyte. The “club” in law is its chairman and board of directors of the plc. Look carefully at their wording:
“The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct to determine that the conduct involved – especially the deliberate non-payment of very large sums, estimated in excess of £13m of tax in the form of PAYE, NIC and VAT – was attributable to the club as a member of the Scottish FA.”
Now, remember what it was that the tribunal determined? That key named directors at Rangers at that time: John McClelland, John Greig, David King, Ken Olverman and Martin Bain (he of the shredded contracts as revealed by C4 News) had to have known what was going on and did nothing about it.
This was the ‘club’ in law. The directors. These men of Rangers who walked away from Rangers.
Since what was going on was ‘deliberate non payment’ income tax, national insurance and VAT to the value of £13m it is reasonable to ask whether these men, along with Mr Whyte, are now going to face a police investigation for possible fraud. I shall be making inquiries from first thing.
Quite possibly they are innocent men, shut out from what was happening by the ever-increasingly-absent Craig Whyte. Though the tribunal has already stated they must have known something very wrong was happening at Ibrox, yet chose to do little or nothing about it.
Mr Whyte is accused by an eminent legal tribunal of directly masterminding a deliberate non-payment of tax. But the whole point here is that tribunal first and now appelate tribunal explicitly hold the ‘club’ (the directors) responsible for this joint enterprise of non-payment. They do not just blame Craig Whyte.
Craig Whyte’s reaction? No change there since he’s always regarded the entire procedure as a “kangaroo court”, “a complete joke” and “a total charade”. He will not bother to appeal, that being his view.
As for the football side of things? Well, there is a football side of things and since Ibrox has been the scene of a major tax fraud, Rangers are exceedingly lucky that this even exists today.
The appeal tribunal duly notes there are 40 players who can still turn up next season because the buy-ban doesn’t stop the club extending contracts of these 40 already on the books:
“…the Appellate Tribunal recognises that the Disciplinary Tribunal decision does not affect Rangers’ ability to extend the contracts of existing professional players, including those whose contracts will expire at the end of this season and including also those currently on loan to other clubs. The Appellate Tribunal observes that Rangers FC have over 40 professional players in this category.”
But footy’s nothing if not short as a career. The window for glory is just a few seasons for most players. Ryan Giggs is an exception proving a brutal rule: life’s short at the top.
Realistically, the better the player, the more likely they are to look elsewhere for glory and european football, when many contracts expire next month at Rangers.
Clearly, from all this, the only reasonable response from Ibrox should be relief and gratitude that they still exist. Scores of clubs, charities, individuals, businesses, councils and colleges across Scotland, the UK and beyond are owed money by this football club – and so are all of us owed at least £13m in deliberate unpaid taxes aka fraud aka serious crime.
The only thing Scotland and the UK taxpayer need hear from Rangers PLC today is the word “sorry”. That’s about as likely as a Craig Whyte pitch-side press conference at Ibrox.

Following that up a bit, it's an inescapable fact that Whyte was acting on behalf of Rangers FC in his capacity as a director. If Rangers FC (i.e. the administrators) now believe that his actions were detrimental to the club they should be preparing a lawsuit against him for damages. If they can show he was acting alone the lawsuit would almost certainly be successful and would bring in extra cash for the creditors (he does have a castle in the Highlands after all).

It's Whyte they should be chasing, not the SFA - I wonder why they're not doing so.

[blackpoolhibs]

So which is it Ally, do you want to stay or go?

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_...remier_league/