Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[SteveHFC]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...he-jersey.html

[Jim44]

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http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...he-jersey.html

That would bring a tear to glass eye.

[TrickyNicky]

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http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...he-jersey.html

Let's take the jersey off the guy we haven't paid for yet !

I'd be surprised if they've even paid for the jersey!

There is no end to this BS!

That "great institution" deserves to be bought by an American who doesn't even know what football is.

I can just see Wild Bill in the technical area booming at McMoist : ' For Gawdsake Alsdair, will you tell that damn negro player to pick the baawl up and hurl it in the direction of our offense, I didn't pay 11 million to watch them kick it allaaawng the turf all day " !

[JohnStephens91]

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http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...he-jersey.html

Where are they getting the money to print out about 50,000 e-cards?

[StevieC]

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Where are they getting the money to print out about 50,000 e-cards?

They're not ... it will just be added to their list of creditors!

[hibbill2002]

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Let's take the jersey off the guy we haven't paid for yet !

I'd be surprised if they've even paid for the jersey!

There is no end to this BS!

That "great institution" deserves to be bought by an American who doesn't even know what football is.

I can just see Wild Bill in the technical area booming at McMoist : ' For Gawdsake Alsdair, will you tell that damn negro player to pick the baawl up and hurl it in the direction of our offense, I didn't pay 11 million to watch them kick it allaaawng the turf all day " !

[BarneyK]

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You wouldn't get that money for those players now. Not when everyone knows what state RFC are in, and how little is left on their contracts.

It's also debatable about the marketability of the properties. But that's not the admins fault. Nobody else has bid for them yet.

When the Administrators were trying to negotiate the massive wage reductions, did they not argue that they had to do so because they were valuable assets that would be lost during the process of redundancy; Now we're saying they're not assets at all and are worthless?

[poolman]

Extract from James Traynor in todays rag



There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.

Well, that has to be the biggest brown nosing piece of ****** I've read yet in the saga of what is the circus that is Rangers FC

[random sub]

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Yep. sorry about the typos...
For them to state anything about preserving Rangers/maintaining their history etc was outwith their remit, and for me shows that they do not have the single minded dedication to their creditors that they should. It's the specific way of shafting everyone while seeking to preserve these vile amoral F***tards, while giving one minute of their time or consideration to preserving their repugnant past that really makes my blood boil. If they get away with it - and I agree this is still by no means certain - they will have achieved the previously considered impossible task of making them even more reviled and loathed by everyone else than previously.

Well said Two Carpets, my feelings exactly. Their vileness is growing day by day.

[Geo_1875]

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Extract from James Traynor in todays rag



There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.

Well, that has to be the biggest brown nosing piece of ****** I've read yet in the saga of what is the circus that is Rangers FC

There may have been crimes committed during this "sorry episode" but I'm certain only those committed by RFC and their various owners and employees would result in a conviction in a court of law. And as for internet nonentities, they're only nonentities in the opinion of a nonentity with a very public platform. Being an employee of a public corporation he should be held to account for his obvious partisanship.

[ScottB]

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Extract from James Traynor in todays rag



There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.

Well, that has to be the biggest brown nosing piece of ****** I've read yet in the saga of what is the circus that is Rangers FC

Ignoring the crimes committed by Rangers...

[Spike Mandela]

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As for the tax dodge.... there never was any prospect of HMRC getting anything other than shafted, not without a nutjob with £150m rocking up. If that's a tax dodge, so is every other administration and liquidation where HMRC don't get paid in full.

That's just it though it is. This 'law' is an ass and especially in football it is being used as a financial tool to bail out crooks.

No offence CWG, but these financial types are taking the general public for mugs and along with MPs and their expenses followed by the bankers creating our financial crisis but stiill giving themselves huge bonuses the public is just getting fed up of all this financial chicanery.

They hide behind terms like 'legal', 'legitamate' and 'administration' but any way you dress it up it is just a way to con people out of money.

[Scorrie]

[QUOTE=poolman;3209159]Extract from James Traynor in todays rag



There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.

What aboot the crime of Traynor impersonating a journalist? Should have been lifted years ago.

On a related them, all this about Rangers (and indeed the OF) being essential for the commercial well being of Scottish football. If they are serious about that, how about going back to the days of splitting the gate money? that way when we play in Glasgow we actually do get some financial benefit?

[green glory]

Maybe a bit hasty to assume this Miller deal is going to work out. The admins have lied about SPL assurances and HMRC blessing of the deal. They are at the court of session today, and the SPL meeting is Monday. The chess pieces are only now beginning to move.

Ignore the weegie media, it has a biased biewpoint, and as has been demonstrated all the way throughout this saga, a poor understanding of what's actually happening.

[JeMeSouviens]

Scotsman article:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ewco-1-2273459

Couple of interesting things.

1. Transfer of players. D&P seem to have told Bill Miller he'll get all the players included in his £11.2M:

“The registration rests with the club, not a limited company,” said the source. “There is a question how you define a club but, if a newco acquired the league share, it would be the club.”

The source also insisted that such a share transfer would also preserve the history of Rangers.

He said: “The football club is all important, with the actual registered company number and effective name not as important. As long as a football club stays together so does the football share, players and titles.”

In my completely unlearned amateur opinion this is major league bull****. They might get away with the titles just by repeating it often enough, they might get away with the football share in the face of craven authorities and complicit spineless "competitors", (including us). However, in a world of player power and sharp agents they have next to **** all chance of making that stick with regard to the players.

2. UEFA

The Uefa stance is clear and unequivocal on how it treats any newco created to shield a football team from any financial or regulatory ills experienced by the organisation from which it sprang.

“If a club sets up a new company simply to avoid paying its debts or obligations then they would almost certainly fail the three-year rule [for obtaining the required Uefa licence],” a spokesperson for Uefa told The Scotsman.

“This is to ensure clubs do not simply create a ‘newco’ and leave the previous entity in charge of dealing with debts.”

Previously, Uefa have made the following statement pertaining to newcos: “Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any

such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and, consequently, three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence. In other words, the three-year rule is designed basically to avoid circumvention of the club licensing system.”

Haven't these Johnny Foreigners heard they have to do everything possible to keep "The Rainjurs" in business?

Seriously, how refreshing to read some quotes from a football governing body that actually seems capable of doing some governance!

[Caversham Green]

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I certainly recommend that those interested in this topic should listen to Thomson's interview of the administrator Paul Clark.
Again he refers to monies coming to the oldco from litigation, so he is again hyping up the court case gainst Collyer Bristow.

Plus he implies that there may be additional court proceedings relating "possibly prior to the takeover". Does he mean SDM?

"No one should be under any illusion that the tax man will be paid in full [well I never!] but Miller's offer represents the best solution."

Dodges the questions about sporting integrity - effectively, "not my job".

"Give and take in discussions with the footballing authorities" - I wonder what the SPL took from the discussions.

I do feel rather dirty having watched that.

To be fair it really is not his job. He was appointed to achieve the best possible deal for creditors (whether he's doing that or not is highly debatable) and sporting integrity is actually something of an impediment to him - his job is to be interested only in the financial and commercial side. The sporting integrity issue lies squarely with the SPL and SFA and I've yet to see either of them show any interest in it. Cutting a deal with the administrators that compromises sporting integrity is a breach of their duties, but from the administrator's point of view he is acting in accordance with his duties.

Having said that, the interview did turn my stomach. His attitude is what gives accountants a bad name, but we're really not all like that.

[CropleyWasGod]

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When the Administrators were trying to negotiate the massive wage reductions, did they not argue that they had to do so because they were valuable assets that would be lost during the process of redundancy; Now we're saying they're not assets at all and are worthless?

In the CVA process that they were trying to achieve, the players were valuable. That was where the value of the business lay.

That was the administration process. In a liquidation, they do seem to be worthless.

[CropleyWasGod]

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To be fair it really is not his job. He was appointed to achieve the best possible deal for creditors (whether he's doing that or not is highly debatable) and sporting integrity is actually something of an impediment to him - his job is to be interested only in the financial and commercial side. The sporting integrity issue lies squarely with the SPL and SFA and I've yet to see either of them show any interest in it. Cutting a deal with the administrators that compromises sporting integrity is a breach of their duties, but from the administrator's point of view he is acting in accordance with his duties.

Having said that, the interview did turn my stomach. His attitude is what gives accountants a bad name, but we're really not all like that.

Speak for yourself

[EuanH78]

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Extract from James Traynor in todays rag



There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.

Well, that has to be the biggest brown nosing piece of ****** I've read yet in the saga of what is the circus that is Rangers FC

Think Traynor might have shot his bolt a little early on this one..

[Caversham Green]

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Speak for yourself

I was going to add 'CWG seems like a decent sort' but I'm glad I didn't now.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Think Traynor might have shot his bolt a little early on this one..

As one of cyberspace's nonentities, I take great offence at some of what he says.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Extract from James Traynor in todays rag



There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.

Well, that has to be the biggest brown nosing piece of ****** I've read yet in the saga of what is the circus that is Rangers FC

The only way football supporters can get to express their opinion is through the medium of the internet. I presume therefore that Mr Traynor is referring to the messageboards of non rangers fans and the odd blogger. Given that the vast majority of opinion on these sites is that a newco current buns should have to apply for a place in the SFL and should not be allowed straight in to the SPL, which is against what he wants, we are all "pious nonentities".

If wanting to see cheats punished makes me a "pious nonentity" James, then guilty as charged.

Better a pious nonentity than a biased journalist who has allowed years of sucking on the teat of the old firm to terminally cloud his journalistic integrity and judgement .......... The first stop for any sports journalist should be to identify cheats wherever possible and bring them to the attention of the public, in the hope that they will be stopped and punished .... Without sporting fair play and integrity sport, be it professional or amatuer is NOTHING !

The amount of money the cheat concerned generates for the sport involved should be of absolutely no consequence whatsoever !!!

"Pious nonentities" is it ? At least we now know what he thinks of his non rangers readers. As if we hadnt worked it out anyway.

[Caversham Green]

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Scotsman article:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ewco-1-2273459

Couple of interesting things.

1. Transfer of players. D&P seem to have told Bill Miller he'll get all the players included in his £11.2M:



In my completely unlearned amateur opinion this is major league bull****. They might get away with the titles just by repeating it often enough, they might get away with the football share in the face of craven authorities and complicit spineless "competitors", (including us). However, in a world of player power and sharp agents they have next to **** all chance of making that stick with regard to the players.

2. UEFA



Haven't these Johnny Foreigners heard they have to do everything possible to keep "The Rainjurs" in business?

Seriously, how refreshing to read some quotes from a football governing body that actually seems capable of doing some governance!

The club has no legal identity beyond the limited company, so it can't legally employ anyone. If you do carry on with that approach though, the club is currently under a 12 month signing embargo; the club has been fined £160k plus £200k levied on an officer of the club; the club stands accused of hidden contracts with players and the club was guilty of defrauding the tax authorities. The limited company is only accountable for the last of these because that's the only one it actually gained from.

[Newry Hibs]

Does this all not boil down to whether RFC get to play in the SPL next year (aside from the trivial matter of fleecing people of 10s of millions of pounds)?
Millers NewCo need the OldCo licence - is this a given that they get it?
If they get it, can they just play again next year in the SPL?
Does someone need to grant the NewCo permission to play in SPL. Despite Doncasters view and recommendation will it actually be voted on?
UEFAs 3 year rule - I imagine any new owners have accepted no Euro football for 3 years. I would like to think that if UEFA impose this 3 year rule as it deems a newco is dodging liabilities, then they would also not be happy with a newco sitting at the top end of a domestic league and act on it.

[BarneyK]

So what would be everyones most memorable buzzword (or phrase) throughout this whole process? Mine would have to be "For the avoidance of doubt..." You can pretty much guarantee that any sentence that has started with this over the past 12 weeks has lead to anything but clarity.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does this all not boil down to whether RFC get to play in the SPL next year (aside from the trivial matter of fleecing people of 10s of millions of pounds)?
Millers NewCo need the OldCo licence - is this a given that they get it?
If they get it, can they just play again next year in the SPL?
Does someone need to grant the NewCo permission to play in SPL. Despite Doncasters view and recommendation will it actually be voted on?
UEFAs 3 year rule - I imagine any new owners have accepted no Euro football for 3 years. I would like to think that if UEFA impose this 3 year rule as it deems a newco is dodging liabilities, then they would also not be happy with a newco sitting at the top end of a domestic league and act on it.

It's also the opinion of Fraser Wishart that the players' contracts cannot be transferred to a new company that easily.

[EuanH78]

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As one of cyberspace's nonentities, I take great offence at some of what he says.

I wouldnt CWG, maybe a cyberspace nonentity but he's a fat, corpulent hack...nonentity.

[JeMeSouviens]

English BBC journo who appears to specialise in football administration:

Matt Slater ‏ @mattslaterbbc

Been making calls re SPL/SFA promises to BM. There weren't any. It's posturing & an attempt to force the other clubs' hands #RFC

[EuanH78]

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English BBC journo who appears to specialise in football administration:

Yup, this is a poker game now.. Wonder if Duff and Duffer and the Sherman Tank know about our Rod's poker face?

[Mon Dieu4]

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It's also the opinion of Fraser Wishart that the players' contracts cannot be transferred to a new company that easily.

Could have swore i read at the time that the players renegotiated contracts meant if a newco was set up they could leave with no or a nominal fee