Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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Here's a thought on the deferral of the decisions today. Maybe, just maybe, Doncaster, and some of the clubs have looked at the fan survey and thought, crap, we are screwed if even 10% of the fans go ahead. They need more time to get it sorted, or there will be more than huns going to the wall.

Just surmising, like.

Far too positive for today's mood, IMO.

Just surmising, like.

[down the slope]

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Here's a thought on the deferral of the decisions today. Maybe, just maybe, Doncaster, and some of the clubs have looked at the fan survey and thought, crap, we are screwed if even 10% of the fans go ahead. They need more time to get it sorted, or there will be more than huns going to the wall.

Just surmising, like.

Hope you are right but i wouldnae haud yer breath wi that one, if you had heard the interview tonight you would have heard from his answers and the tone of them that he was paving the way for a Newco to be admitted , utterly sickening if true but they might just rue the day.

[ScottB]

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Another thought occurs. The problem is the business model of clubs relies on and is held hostage to the whims of the OF turning up 4 times a year. The model should be to maximise home support and ensure that the home crowd pays for everything - that is the only way to break the hold of the OF. Cut the apron strings and allow the game to flourish independantly, a 16 team top league which is competetive and delivers an exciting product.

Does it? I'm not convinced in the slightest.

Firstly, didn't Dunfermline's Chairman recently say they make more money out of us going there than Rangers, as we take almost as many fans but need only a quarter of the policing costs.

Secondly, the Old Firm coming 4 times a year. That's only a possibility for 4 clubs, and even then not a cert. I would imagine any club that is being smart will base their budget on being bottom 6, so budgeting for only one visit from each of them. How many seasons has it been since ER played host to Rantic 4 times in a season? We haven't folded from the lack of income that I've noticed.


Like everything else, it's a myth that is treated as an accepted truth as part of the push to keep Rangers in the SPL. I'd wager more clubs will end up in difficulty if they get parachuted back in than if they get dumped out.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Never mind all this CVA, NEWCO in out, shakeit all about. I think we all knew a while back that there will be a RFC in the SPL next season.
The real question for me is... What the hell sort of a hair cut is that Doncaster sporting? Dude that is not good!

[p=sh]

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On the fans survey he more or less rubbished it by saying that when things were explained to them they understood what the position was !, the man is a complete erse of the highest order and he will rue the day he lets a Rangers newco straight back in the SPL , mark my words that is what is going to happen if has his way as he mentioned a few times that was what has happened in England with various clubs. He is a slippery as a snake and we are all wasting our time with surveys, protests the lot as the die is cast and Rangers will be in the SPL next season.

If that happens (RFC in the SPL next season) I will never set foot again in a scottish football stadium. I am about to write to Hibs FC to explain my reasoning for this. Genuinely I feel there are thousands of fans who share my view. This is a defining moment for scottish football and I'm not optimistic.
My only hope is that UEFA will prevent it but that will be very ugly.

[Dalkeith]

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Im hoping the clubs see sense and throw them out or there will be hell to pay.

and the only clubs to suffer will be the very clubs that vote to let them stay in spl

[Ozyhibby]

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Aw deary me ...

It may be a little boring for you but I can assure you I'm not alone. I can just about handle the fact that the quality of football in the SPL is inferior to what's available elsewhere but I won't watch a rigged game.
My spend on Hibs each year is considerable(2 sons) but if Hibs decide they can do without my money in favour of filling the away end twice a season then that is up to Hibs.
It will be loss for me not bringing the boys to Easter road but it is the principle that is the most important thing.

[Weir7]

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Rp is not on the board of the SPL who will make the decision-me sticking up for Rod there's a first !, can't remember who some of the board are but Donkey and Ralph Topping are two of them so there is no chance of any integrity being shown.

This should go to a full vote of all teams. Hibs need to let Rod know our views.

[ScottB]

All of this seems to assume whatever pittance of a CVA is offered is going to be accepted.

Now either they all know something we don't, or they are just hoping it will. But I see no reason as to why HMRC (or Ticketus, or indeed anyone else) would be happy with the sort of 7p or 8p in the £ that's going to be on offer. Certainly from the Revenues point of view, shutting the club down would be worth more to them (both possibly in income, but more importantly as a warning to others) than accepting the CVA, which is of course against their stated policy for football clubs.

Even if the SPL is just itching to welcome them back in with open arms, HMRC still loom large over this, and UEFA wait behind them. After what they did to the Swiss there is no way they will just stand by and watch. I've long thought it would take UEFA having a reason to come in for our game to get cleaned up, I welcome them with open arms if they are needed!

[proud_and_green]

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Does it? I'm not convinced in the slightest.

Firstly, didn't Dunfermline's Chairman recently say they make more money out of us going there than Rangers, as we take almost as many fans but need only a quarter of the policing costs.

Secondly, the Old Firm coming 4 times a year. That's only a possibility for 4 clubs, and even then not a cert. I would imagine any club that is being smart will base their budget on being bottom 6, so budgeting for only one visit from each of them. How many seasons has it been since ER played host to Rantic 4 times in a season? We haven't folded from the lack of income that I've noticed.

Like everything else, it's a myth that is treated as an accepted truth as part of the push to keep Rangers in the SPL. I'd wager more clubs will end up in difficulty if they get parachuted back in than if they get dumped out.

I think you are supporting my point which is we shouldn't think that we need the OF. We don't and the nonOF clubs must build everything on getting their own fans back into their own grounds and making the product attractive and competetive without this real or perceived reliance on them.

PS

OFGTF

[carnoustiehibee]

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It may be a little boring for you but I can assure you I'm not alone. I can just about handle the fact that the quality of football in the SPL is inferior to what's available elsewhere but I won't watch a rigged game.
My spend on Hibs each year is considerable(2 sons) but if Hibs decide they can do without my money in favour of filling the away end twice a season then that is up to Hibs.
It will be loss for me not bringing the boys to Easter road but it is the principle that is the most important thing.

there is thousands like you, not just hibs fans aswell, most fans of other teams ive spoken to will do exactly the same.

[proud_and_green]

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It may be a little boring for you but I can assure you I'm not alone. I can just about handle the fact that the quality of football in the SPL is inferior to what's available elsewhere but I won't watch a rigged game.
My spend on Hibs each year is considerable(2 sons) but if Hibs decide they can do without my money in favour of filling the away end twice a season then that is up to Hibs.
It will be loss for me not bringing the boys to Easter road but it is the principle that is the most important thing.

Absolutely agree re the filling the away end. why don't they just give our grounds over completely to the OF when they arrive - that would make more sense.

This whole thing was talked about early on as our opportunity to re-claim the game from the suits and OF. We should march on Hampden to register our displeasure at the way that we - the Fans - are being treated. Strathclyde's finest wouldn't allow it though. Nice thought though - non-OF supporters uniting to tell the Man that we're really not happy with their crap!

OFGTF

[Jack]

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If what is true?

All that seems to have happened today is that a decision has been deferred.

Sorry I should have been more explicit. This.

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Hope you are right but i wouldnae haud yer breath wi that one, if you had heard the interview tonight you would have heard from his answers and the tone of them that he was paving the way for a Newco to be admitted , utterly sickening if true but they might just rue the day.

Up till now I've believed it wouldn't be possible for the SFA or SPL to get away with a newco being allowed directly into the SPL.

UEFA gave me hope, from that they've supposedly said and certainly precedents set, that our authorities wouldn't be stupid enough to even attempt it.

Now I'm not so sure.

The Swiss were threatened with exclusion from all levels of football, that's from national to kids tournaments. Why wouldn't they do the same to Scotland?

There are also those at international level, as we all know, who would like to see a team GB. That could be a condition of re-entry.

It might a doomsday scenario or extreme bed wetting. I suspect the countries previously threatened thought their sheets were safe at the time too.

[Spike Mandela]

Doncaster pretty much sets out the future here. It's newcoville for Rangers and no punishment. We can all pack up and go home it's a whitewash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17892984

[green glory]

Doncaster and the SPL need to be told to GTF.

[snooky]

"Former SPL chief executive Roger Mitchell believes a solution will eventually be found that keeps Rangers in the top flight.
He told BBC Radio Scotland: "The clubs vote principally through self-interest and they will all have had a word with their bank managers, who will have said 'whatever you do, make sure you still have revenue from a television deal and from Rangers fans coming through the turnstyles' "

If that's the case then it will be ONLY Rangers fans coming through turnstyles.
Time to shut up shop when Bankers start making the rules of the game and money overides integrity.
Shocking statement IMO

[Rossco1875]

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[Onion]

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Doncaster pretty much sets out the future here. It's newcoville for Rangers and no punishment. We can all pack up and go home it's a whitewash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17892984

They've got the ****ters. What a lot of crap about it affecting 12 clubs when we all know it about the Huns. Absolute COWARDS, the lot of them

[jdships]

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No for me it disnae, if this happens Scottish fitba will lose what little credibility and integrity it has left. If they start the SPL next season in any form I winnae be back ever. I'll find better things tae dae with my money than put it in tae something which is so blatantly corrupt and morally bankrupt. If they get away with cheating on this scale the rest of us might as well pack up.

Agree totally with what you write !!
As it stands I have drifted away from football as my source of entertainment and very much pick and chosse which games I attend.
One of my pet hates all my life has been being patronised , be it at work in a shop or wherever , and this is exactly what this imposter Doncaster is doing to every non RFC football supporter in Scotland .
Like you if this is the way things are going to be I will have no problems in becoming an armchair supporter of whatever team I fancy on the night .
Scottish Football RIP

[Leithenhibby]

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"Former SPL chief executive Roger Mitchell believes a solution will eventually be found that keeps Rangers in the top flight.
He told BBC Radio Scotland: "The clubs vote principally through self-interest and they will all have had a word with their bank managers, who will have said 'whatever you do, make sure you still have revenue from a television deal and from Rangers fans coming through the turnstyles' "

If that's the case then it will be ONLY Rangers fans coming through turnstyles.
Time to shut up shop [B]when Bankers start making the rules of the game and money overides integrity.
Shocking statement IMO[/B]

Just thinking the same thing, it's a sad day when you can't even count on your local friendly bank manager to do the right thing!!. I mean, it's not as though they have got it wrong before

[Kaiser1962]

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The Newco would have to buy any assets from the Oldco. This will require the approval of creditors (and presumably Craig Whyte?).

I dont think the "creditors" have to be consulted and the administrators can sell the assetts to whomever they see fit. Sad but true.

[greenginger]

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I sat in stunned silence when that was on, wouldn't like to listen to it again.
It seems that the only ones to suffer will be the creditors, the ten diddy teams that are in the league to help rangers and celtic get into europe, fair play and scottish football so that'll be worth waiting for.

There is no mechanism at present to stop a newco re entering the spl. there are no sanctions available to take against a team that enter into liquidation.

Craig Whyte is a genius by the way.

There is a mechanism, the SPL board simply does not approve of the share transfer, but listening to that toad Doncaster there is no chance of that happening.

One SPL rule that he seems to have overlooked is H 5, which says if any Club ( existing Huns ) in the league ceases to operate or be a member of the league for any reason -------------and the number of relegation places from the league SHALL be reduced accordingly.

It does not say another Club ( Newco Huns ) can take its place.

If that was the case could we transfer our SPL share to Barcelona and get them to play our last three games for us ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I dont think the "creditors" have to be consulted and the administrators can sell the assetts to whomever they see fit. Sad but true.

They act on behalf of the creditors, and are charged to get the best return possible for them. They effectively take the assets over, and have almost complete control over them.

[jgl07]

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I dont think the "creditors" have to be consulted and the administrators can sell the assetts to whomever they see fit. Sad but true.

So you think that HMRC, Ticketus, et al will sit quietly and watch the Oldco transfer the ownership of Ibrox and Murray Park to a Newco for peanuts?

[CropleyWasGod]

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So you think that HMRC, Ticketus, et al will sit quietly and watch the Oldco transfer the ownership of Ibrox and Murray Park to Newco for peanuts?

Like I say, the liquidators have to act on behalf of the creditors. If the scenario you describe happens, the other creditors can petition the Court to act accordingly.

[Just_Jimmy]

Doncaster waffling pish on ITV now. He's been reasonably pushed tbf. He's basically said that Newco's are fine, the SPL is great and long live der hun.

[MSK]

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It may be a little boring for you but I can assure you I'm not alone. I can just about handle the fact that the quality of football in the SPL is inferior to what's available elsewhere but I won't watch a rigged game.
My spend on Hibs each year is considerable(2 sons) but if Hibs decide they can do without my money in favour of filling the away end twice a season then that is up to Hibs.
It will be loss for me not bringing the boys to Easter road but it is the principle that is the most important thing.

No you are not alone but what gets on my goat is folk blabbing on here about not buying season tickets ever again..never going back ever again ..blah de ****ing blah ..IF hibs do this ..IF hibs do that ...IF ..at least wait until hibs or the SFA announce anything before you turn your back on the club ...

**** ..its like being back at primary school !!!!

[johnbc70]

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It may be a little boring for you but I can assure you I'm not alone. I can just about handle the fact that the quality of football in the SPL is inferior to what's available elsewhere but I won't watch a rigged game.
My spend on Hibs each year is considerable(2 sons) but if Hibs decide they can do without my money in favour of filling the away end twice a season then that is up to Hibs.
It will be loss for me not bringing the boys to Easter road but it is the principle that is the most important thing.

You are not alone, if newco are straight back into SPL then the message from the SPL is loud and clear that they care not one bit about fairness, sporting integrity and the fans and that the SPL is just a set up for Celtic and Rangers to prosper. Not something I would happily support and fund thanks very much. At least today while we all know it is like this to some extent and the odds are in the Old Firms favour already, to actually rewrite the rules to reinforce this and suit just one club as a result of their own self made problems will be a step too far for me.

I will still support Hibs though but more than likely from a distance, and will certainly not be going to nearly as many games as I do now, which as a ST holder is every home game.

[MountcastleHibs]

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Doncaster waffling pish on ITV now. He's been reasonably pushed tbf. He's basically said that Newco's are fine, the SPL is great and long live der hun.

He pretty much advocated clubs going into administration and liquidation and coming back as new co's. What a complete erse! No wonder our game is Donald ducked with trumpets like him in charge of our game.

[johnbc70]

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No you are not alone but what gets on my goat is folk blabbing on here about not buying season tickets ever again..never going back ever again ..blah de ****ing blah ..IF hibs do this ..IF hibs do that ...IF ..at least wait until hibs or the SFA announce anything before you turn your back on the club ...

**** ..its like being back at primary school !!!!

Is he not saying IF newco are back in the SPL, if they trade their way out of admin and agree a CVA then fair enough they stay in the SPL and I have no problem with that. All if and buts at the moment but people are just expressing their views on the current situation which as every day passes looks more and more like liquidation which will mean a newco will either be back in the SPL or not.