Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[ancienthibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17789810

if that is the only bid on the table.....they are screwed...at least beeb got the view of someone who has credibility...

Professor David Hillier, vice dean of Strathclyde Business School, disputes Miller's claim that his offer would avoid liquidation.

May not be though - see post 5248

[northgreen24]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17789810

if that is the only bid on the table.....they are screwed...at least beeb got the view of someone who has credibility...

Professor David Hillier, vice dean of Strathclyde Business School, disputes Miller's claim that his offer would avoid liquidation.

this is very interesting

"Miller added: "My offer is contingent upon the regulatory bodies agreeing that the club will begin play in the 2012/13 season in the SPL and that they will do so without any loss of points and with all historic titles intact."

so basically we can cheat for year but I dont want you little clubs stopping us next year (went going to win the league anyway). just glade it is an edinburgh scottish cup final as proves not everything revolves round glasgow..


come on the other 10 have some balls

[down-the-slope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

May not be though - see post 5248

The Sun that reliable source...Hmmm...how can we sell a few more rags in the weege...oh aye sell hope...Sun understands...blah blah

[camhibby1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

May not be though - see post 5248

I am of the opinion that the 'powers that be' have become so defensive that they are now watching every move taking place over which they have no control - other club's POV's; club forums etc to guage external opinion. I suspect UEFA are watching it like hawks too. Which makes Warrington Hibs' call by Doncaster to come to Hampden an interesting one.

As well as bringing up the obvious, the superb work done on the survey which we all applaud, it would be good if WH brought up this question of the 'fit and proper' persons rule. Whilst Bill Miller's proposals are laughable, the fit and proper person's rule should be directed at the Blue Knights. About the only thing Miller can be said to be right about is that no-one with previous at RFC can possibly be involved in a CAV out of administration for the simple reason that corporate responsibility should rule out Paul Whyte having anything to do with a rescue. As I said in the only previous comment I've made on this mess, PW is as part of the problem as anyone and that includes Campbell Ogilvie. They were all in tow to SDM and turned a blind eye - by implication they failed as directors of the previous regime to prevent this and are therefore as guilty. The fit and proper persons rule comes into play even before the alleged criminality is proved or are the SFA and SPL beaks so in thrall to the OF that it doesn't matter. WH might like to talk about this on Tuesday. Mind you by Tuesday it might well be that liquidation is all that is left - if that's the case so be it. And I for one would welcome it.

A football club so immersed in its own disgraceful history has no place in 21st century Scotland and we are well rid. There are many shamed institutions which have died in the passing of time as society has moved on into more enlightened times - RFC is a shamed institution which deserves to die and stuff its arrogant misplaced belief that it has a right above anyone or anything else.

Warrington Hibs - give Tuesday all you've got -you have my support.

[joe breezy]

So there are no serious offers for Rangers and certainly none that are prepared to pay the debts and the tax due

[dangermouse]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are they still going? I do remember one bleak cup defeat there 20 or so years ago. Was surprised it was an all seater stadium!

You have just stirred up some bad memories. To make it worse we had humped them 4 - 1 at ER the week before and on the journey home had to listen to Robbo scoring the winning goal against the tic at Tynie

[dangermouse]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They're beginning to crumble over on FF. There's usually a stubborn, united, 'wha's like us', we arra' people attitude but some of the posts would make a glass eye greet.


When the dust settles and we come out of this the other side, no matter what state were in were all going to have to look at this situation very closely.
Yeah, Whyte, Murray and D&P will bear the brunt of our anger and rightly so, however, we will also have to take a look at ourselves as a support, myself included.
We could have done more, much much more and we didnt. And that is my biggest regret out of all of this, I didnt do enough, I didnt do anything. I thought we were too big to have any great harm come to us, I thought someone would have saved us.
I was wrong.


.......................... and that's just a few of the optimistic ones.

I wonder how many of the will be saying that when HMRC get their hooks into HMFC. At least we Hibees actually do something about our team before the

[Gettin' Auld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If Rangers F C in administration buy Cowdenbeath to re-start their existence in the SFL they should always be referred to by all other clubs as Cowdenbeath F C to mock them forever.

Also the idea that they could somehow transfer their history to a New-Co or a club they buy is bizarre.

If the liquidated assets of Rangers F C were sold off and say Ross County out bid the New - Co for Rangers good-will ( history ) would anyone seriously believe Ross County if they claimed to have won fifty league titles and countless cups ?

If der Hun is liquidated their history is liquidated as well, if they want to keep their history let them propose a 10 - 20 year plan to repay all their creditors in full including interest.

I've never seen the words 'Rangers' and 'Goodwill' used in the same sentence before. Surely that's an oxymoron?

[ancienthibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Sun that reliable source...Hmmm...how can we sell a few more rags in the weege...oh aye sell hope...Sun understands...blah blah

There does seem to be substance to the story.

I assume certain papers were briefed by Kennedy/Murray:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...ngers.17374095

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There does seem to be substance to the story.

I assume certain papers were briefed by Kennedy/Murray:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...ngers.17374095

Och, AH, you know by now how this game plays.

I said on here yesterday that the BK would be back in. The Sun et al are only doing what all respectable journalists do, and getting their exclusives from

[greenginger]

Does anyone think Paul Murray's hands are dirty enough for him to fail the " fit and proper person " test ?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There does seem to be substance to the story.

I assume certain papers were briefed by Kennedy/Murray:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...ngers.17374095

The most important quote in all of that:-

Mr Clark also revealed that the club was in danger of running out of cash soon. He said: "Without season ticket sales, the money would run out towards the end of May or early June. So from that point of view we really do need to proceed with one of these bids.

Again, he must have been answering a question put to him by someone reading Hibs.net.

[PatHead]

The grovelling carries on...........

Ally McCoist admits Rangers "are in the wrong" as they face up to potential disciplinary action but the manager has urged the authorities to be "fair".
Rangers await the Scottish FA's verdict into alleged rule breaches.
And there may be further investigation into the club's conduct relating to how players were paid over the last decade.
"We are in no position to make demands to anybody, least of all the SFA," said McCoist following the 3-0 win against Hearts at Tynecastle.
"We are in the wrong so we have to go and abide by the decisions that are taken upon us.
"We're just hopeful that the powers that be are - I'm loathed to use the word sympathetic - but realistic of the situation.
"A lot of the problems that we're in aren't down to the club, the majority of problems that we're faced with at the moment are down to individual mistakes and individual errors within the club.
"And we can only hope that the SFA or the SPL are, not lenient as such, but are fair with us because we are in the wrong and we deserve to take whatever we get but we just hope that there's a bit of fairness about the whole thing."
"Hopefully we can push things forward," said McCoist.

"We need to get the ball rolling, Monday can come soon enough. The most important thing is we do get a suitable resolution. It has to be sooner rather than later.
"What an ideal situation for me was and always has been and always will be is the same for the majority of fans and that would be to come out of administration through a CVA."
Meanwhile, McCoist would like to offer a new contract to Andy Little, who netted in the 3-0 win at Hearts.
"Andy Little has had a heck of a tough time with injuries [and has] come back from serious career-threatening injuries," added the manager.
"He will always make something happen. He's chipped in with more than his fair share of goals already this season.
"I'm very, very hopeful that we can get him something offered.
"I don't think anyone can deny that we deserved the victory.
"I definitely thought we were worthy of the three points." Source BBC

We are really sorry .................but want to sign a player, couldnt make it up

[ancienthibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The most important quote in all of that:-

Mr Clark also revealed that the club was in danger of running out of cash soon. He said: "Without season ticket sales, the money would run out towards the end of May or early June. So from that point of view we really do need to proceed with one of these bids.

Again, he must have been answering a question put to him by someone reading Hibs.net.

[Spike Mandela]

McCoist wants the authorities to be 'fair'. This situation is unprecedented so nothing to balance fairness against. They should be made an example of.

A lot of the problems aren't the clubs fault but individuals within the clubs fault? what mealy mouthed rubbish from McCoist. Murray and Whyte were the owners and ARE the club wether he likes it or not.

Breathtakingly Pathetic stuff from the cheeky chappie.

[Jack]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does anyone think Paul Murray's hands are dirty enough for him to fail the " fit and proper person " test ?

I think if you read through this thread again :-D you'll find a link suggesting he is not a fit and proper person.

Seems to have been forgotten about while he heads up the fans favourite option.

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

McCoist wants the authorities to be 'fair'. This situation is unprecedented so nothing to balance fairness against. They should be made an example of.

A lot of the problems aren't the clubs fault but individuals within the clubs fault? what mealy mouthed rubbish from McCoist. Murray and Whyte were the owners and ARE the club wether he likes it or not.

Breathtakingly Pathetic stuff from the cheeky chappie.

Almost big boy did it and ran away.

[Kaiser1962]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Sun article also states Ticketus as the largest creditor, am I not right in saying that it's HMRC

As things stand, according to D+P, Ticketus are owed £26.7m (TBC) in the accounts and HMRC a more precise £14,372,042, which does not include either the small tax case or the big one, which will need to be addressed at some point.

I would surmise that without Ticketus, who have over 48% of the currently acknowledged debt, on board the CVA is a total non starter. HMRC, with almost 26% of the total, could still block a CVA but, with a number of the debts still to be confirmed, a "massaging" of the figures upward by around £2.1m would nullify HMRC's ability to legally stop the implementation of the CVA. At this time that is.

I am also unsure how D+P define "football related creditors" as I would assume this would include both Rapid and Hearts but the figure listed dosent even come close.

[Geo_1875]

McCoist mangles the English language and hopes that it will divert the authorities attention from the complete dunghill that is Glasgow Rangers and their complete disregard for the rule of law and the regulations of Scottish, British and European football. **** him and **** Glasgow Rangers.

[snooky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

McCoist wants the authorities to be 'fair'. This situation is unprecedented so nothing to balance fairness against. They should be made an example of.

A lot of the problems aren't the clubs fault but individuals within the clubs fault? what mealy mouthed rubbish from McCoist. Murray and Whyte were the owners and ARE the club wether he likes it or not.

Breathtakingly Pathetic stuff from the cheeky chappie.

To be 'fair', Rangers have always been 'fair' with us - taking a 'fair' amount of our team along the M8 enticing them with everybody else's money.

[Jim44]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As things stand, according to D+P, Ticketus are owed £26.7m (TBC) in the accounts and HMRC a more precise £14,372,042, which does not include either the small tax case or the big one, which will need to be addressed at some point.

I would surmise that without Ticketus, who have over 48% of the currently acknowledged debt, on board the CVA is a total non starter. HMRC, with almost 26% of the total, could still block a CVA but, with a number of the debts still to be confirmed, a "massaging" of the figures upward by around £2.1m would nullify HMRC's ability to legally stop the implementation of the CVA. At this time that is.

I am also unsure how D+P define "football related creditors" as I would assume this would include both Rapid and Hearts but the figure listed dosent even come close.

If HMRC are anti-CVA, then I assume they are pro-liquidation. If it came to liquidation, how do they recoup the vast amounts due?

[ehf]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If HMRC are anti-CVA, then I assume they are pro-liquidation. If it came to liquidation, how do they recoup the vast amounts due?

They sell the assets on a "break-up" basis. Effectively that will be the real estate and the brand/goodwill. The real estate comprises Ibrox, which probably has redevelopment potential of circa 20 million and Murray Park about 10 million. The brand/goodwill is more intangible but is actually worth more than the real estate combined.

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If HMRC are anti-CVA, then I assume they are pro-liquidation. If it came to liquidation, how do they recoup the vast amounts due?

HMRC are probably more concerned wth sending out a message that they are not be messed with rather than maximizing their returns. The liquidation of Rangers would send shock waves through British Football.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

HMRC are probably more concerned wth sending out a message that they are not be messed with rather than maximizing their returns. The liquidation of Rangers would send shock waves through British Football.

HMRC wrote off, in their minds anyway, most of their debt a while ago. Even a solvent Rangers couldn't pay the sums being talked about.

As you say, it's about precedent. That said, the First Tier Tribunal doesn't have the status of Courts, in that legal precedent can't be established. The message can be, though.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As things stand, according to D+P, Ticketus are owed £26.7m (TBC) in the accounts and HMRC a more precise £14,372,042, which does not include either the small tax case or the big one, which will need to be addressed at some point.

I would surmise that without Ticketus, who have over 48% of the currently acknowledged debt, on board the CVA is a total non starter. HMRC, with almost 26% of the total, could still block a CVA but, with a number of the debts still to be confirmed, a "massaging" of the figures upward by around £2.1m would nullify HMRC's ability to legally stop the implementation of the CVA. At this time that is.

I am also unsure how D+P define "football related creditors" as I would assume this would include both Rapid and Hearts but the figure listed dosent even come close.

The "football-related creditors", though, is an irrelevance in Scotland.

Or have I misunderstood your point?

[jdships]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

HMRC are probably more concerned wth sending out a message that they are not be messed with rather than maximizing their returns. The liquidation of Rangers would send shock waves through British Football.

Speaking with a friend who is a senior member of HMRC in Scotland , while refusing point blank to discuss RFC which is understandable, he made the point that " .... cannot describe the level of embarressment , at HMRC , over the failure to get a verdict in the Harry Redknapp case and they certainly will not be wanting a repeat with RFC "
Take what you like out of that

[tanfield]

Slightly off topic and a bit random but bumped into Paul Murray in WHSmith's at Newcastle train station after the match today.

[Eyrie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As things stand, according to D+P, Ticketus are owed £26.7m (TBC) in the accounts and HMRC a more precise £14,372,042, which does not include either the small tax case or the big one, which will need to be addressed at some point.

I would surmise that without Ticketus, who have over 48% of the currently acknowledged debt, on board the CVA is a total non starter. HMRC, with almost 26% of the total, could still block a CVA but, with a number of the debts still to be confirmed, a "massaging" of the figures upward by around £2.1m would nullify HMRC's ability to legally stop the implementation of the CVA. At this time that is.

I am also unsure how D+P define "football related creditors" as I would assume this would include both Rapid and Hearts but the figure listed dosent even come close.

The small tax case has already been conceded by the Huns with a tax liability of £2.8m before interest and the only question mark is over the penalties being charged. So HMRC have a minimum £16.2m claim to be considered.

[Kaiser1962]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The small tax case has already been conceded by the Huns with a tax liability of £2.8m before interest and the only question mark is over the penalties being charged. So HMRC have a minimum £16.2m claim to be considered.

I thought that as well but in D+P's document released earlier it states that ;

14.28 The Small Tax Case was bought against the Company by HMRC in respect of outstanding amounts owed from the use of a discounted options tax scheme for payments made to Tore Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer between the tax years 2000/01 and 2002/03.
14.29 The total amount determined as due by HMRC in respect of this case is in the region of £4,000,000, after interest and penalty charges.
14.30 The Small Tax Case has not progressed as far as Tribunal and has been settled based upon advice received.

There is no figure in D+P's take on things against either the Small or Big tax cases. They suggest the figure is still TBC.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I thought that as well but in D+P's document released earlier it states that ;

14.28 The Small Tax Case was bought against the Company by HMRC in respect of outstanding amounts owed from the use of a discounted options tax scheme for payments made to Tore Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer between the tax years 2000/01 and 2002/03.
14.29 The total amount determined as due by HMRC in respect of this case is in the region of £4,000,000, after interest and penalty charges.
14.30 The Small Tax Case has not progressed as far as Tribunal and has been settled based upon advice received.

There is no figure in D+P's take on things against either the Small or Big tax cases. They suggest the figure is still TBC.

That says to me that it has been settled.