Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[ballengeich]

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Scottish football needs to kick Rangers down to Division 3. If Scottish football doesn't do this, Hibs will suffer. Even if they didn't vote for it themselves.

You're making the assumption that the SFL would be willing to accept a Newco Rangers. The SPL can't impose that and surely it would be better for the SFL to admit one of the other clubs that would apply for a vacancy as it would have a longer term interest in making the SFL work. The junior grade would still be available for the Newco.

[magpie1892]

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This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.

I feel your pain but I don't think what you say is a foregone conclusion. If - and it remains a big if - with HMRC on the case (no pun intended), UEFA waching closely, the fact that Whyte will not go without a fight (and owns Ibrox/Murray Park), the cancellation/reversion of the players' contracts on liquidation, the lack of revenue from Europe, etc.,etc. there's still a fair bit of water to go under the bridge, I reckon.

Even if they get parachuted in to the SPL as a newco, they'll still not have their troubles to seek. Obviously I wish they'd die but I think if they do survive they'll have a harder time of it than you might imagine.

[ancienthibby]

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This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.

Disagree, Mr Rebus!

jgl07 at 4922 above was on the mark though he could have gone further.

There will be a real mass exodus from HunsNewco over the summer and next year's team will be made up of half the U-19 team most likely and a rump of current players. Many teams gave RFC a hard time this year and they will be licking their lips at the prospect of humping the Huns. Of course, now that one J Traynor has 'seen the light' maybe they won't be in the SPL after all!

None of the three bidders have any real cash to make a splash in the transfer market and HunsNewco will have to make swingeing staff cuts.

[grunt]

More from the man at Ch4

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-football/1134

Part 1 – The Case of Alex Salmond
One thing’s quietly emerging if you probe enough – and that’s the ever-so-gentlemanly turf war being fought over Ibrox, well away from Ibrox.
The Scottish Football Association boss Stewart Regan broke cover to me three days back, responding to questions from Channel 4 News about why Alex Salmond phoned HMRC on 11 Jan to ask about the Rangers’ tax position.
Mr Regan made it clear he did not want to get into specifics on this. But equally made it plain there is a heightened sense at the SFA’s Hampden Park HQ that Scotland’s politicians have rolled their tanks onto the SFA’s lawn. The SFA want them off.
He wrote:
“I have already spoken to the Sports Minister, Shona Robinson some weeks ago about the Scottish Government’s involvement in football matters and reminded her of the need to let football govern and regulate its own affairs without interference, especially in light of FIFA’s views on this issue.”
FIFA’s views on the issue of political interference into football clubs being very public and widely known.
Mr Salmond’s people vehemently deny it was political “interference” The First Minister’s Office say the 11 Jan call:
“…centred on securing a settlement to enable Rangers to meet their obligations to the taxpayer and continue in business.”
They say they thus acted in the public interest. That’s that. No story.

But in football politics things are rarely so straightforward. Clearly Mr Regan, still relatively new at the SFA, sees political interference and is concerned enough to write to the Sports Minister, asking for it to stop please.
Moreover, what matters is how UEFA, European Football’s governing body, sees actions like these? Michel Platini has made great hay during his tenure as UEFA boss, of financial fair play. In public UEFA can do little more than pledge support to the SFA and Rangers. In private they are angry and embarrassed at the unfolding Rangers mess. Rangers, frankly, is a big blot on their landscape.
Not least, because the club was of course the first in Scotland to get a licence in 2003 for – amongst other things – financial good housekeeping, when as we now know it was as much a casino as a football club. All this in now unfolding, UEFA know and they are unamused.
And along with financial fair play comes political interference which has seen FIFA – football’s world governing body – take strong action against some member countries with meddling politicians.
The question of Scottish politicians getting involved with both the taxman and administrators over Rangers was described to me as “difficult and complex” by UEFA’s press office on the record. So difficult and complex that I’ve waited three days to get any answer and have thus far failed. Away from their press office one official spoke on condition of anonymity and said “we are concerned, we have all this in our sights but the key agency here is the SFA”. Clearly the SFA do too.
Even though Mr Salmond has spoken about this phone call in a TV interview with Al Jazeera and it’s been reported in the press, there’s still great official secrecy shrouding what was actually said, which to this day has not been cleared up.
According to a recent Freedom of Information request, details relating to the call cannot be made public according to Holyrood officials because it would “prejudice substantially” relations between Scottish and UK governments.
Yet, a couple of lines later, the same official – Patrick Berry – who wrote that, claims the information wouldn’t greatly add anything to public knowledge.
Well Patrick – which is it? Either it’s substantially prejudicial or it’s not going to add to our knowledge but it certainly can’t be both.
Curiouser and curiouser.
As for the First Minister, his staff quite rightly point out that he’s spoken to HMRC with regard to other companies in trouble. But how many of them potentially owed the taxpayer £75 million?
Equally the argument that RFC is somehow another Ravenscraig, a victim of external forces and circumstance where the First Minister must act, would surely be open to question by some?
RFC owes Big Tax already. It could soon owe Vast Tax. RFC created the mess RFC is in. Nobody else. And I can tell you first hand that UEFA is deeply unhappy at the mess. As, no doubt is Alex Salmond.
If RFC lose the Big Tax Case many honest taxpayers will say the last thing it deserves is survival. Holyrood would say what matters is the best deal for the taxpayer. And so would the HMRC.
So Alex Salmond’s damned whatever he does. Fail to act and you look like you don’t care. Act and you’ve the minefield of national and international football politics to contend with.
To say nothing of the fans, divided as ever.

[grunt]

And here's an update from D&P

Paul Clark, joint administrator, said: "Following discussions with three parties bidding to purchase the football club, we can confirm that all three parties have informed us today they wish to remain in the sale process."However, following the information supplied by us to bidders in relation to proposed new rules on penalties for insolvent clubs within the SPL, there have been changes made to the conditions attached to bids.

Among the new conditions are requests from parties who now, before committing further, wish access to the football authorities in order to seek greater clarity on the proposed rule changes. We hope to provide Rangers supporters with a further update next week and will continue to make every effort to reach the point where a preferred bidder can be announced.

We are keen to conclude an offer as soon as possible and certainly we would hope that this does not mean that finalisation is delayed until April 30, 2012.

[CropleyWasGod]

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And here's an update from D&P

Back from my travels

I have only skimmed over the events of the last few days.......and have no view on them yet.

However, what strikes me is the extension of the process which has been caused by the SPL stuff. I think it is significant that D and P say they want things finalised before the 30th.

That says to me that they are increasingly concerned about RFC's cash position. As I understood it, the wage deals enabled them to budget to the end of the season..... in the hope that a takeover could be done before that.

If they have to wait until May, some players' wages may go back up... some players may be allowed to walk. I don't know if RFC would have the cash to last long in the close season.

Shame.

[snooky]

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Sadly true. The footballing, political and media authorities will ensure this is the case.

Another sad truth: as the result of the above, attendances at the other ten clubs will decline to the point where most of them are no longer viable.

Think you're right, Bob - but pray you're wrong.

[Kaiser1962]

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Sadly true. The footballing, political and media authorities will ensure this is the case.

Another sad truth: as the result of the above, attendances at the other ten clubs will decline to the point where most of them are no longer viable.

Its arguable whether any of them are viable at the moment Bob, never mind in a years time.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Its arguable whether any of them are viable at the moment Bob, never mind in a years time.

Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone? Inverness have just posted an increased profit, I think.

[Mikey]

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This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.

Here's what I said in post 37 in this thread, 26 minutes after the thread was started.........

They'll start next season with a clean slate, same name, same stadium and much much more money to spend than the ten below them.

I haven't seen too much to prove that wrong yet

[cabbageandribs1875]

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God save our gracious Queen
She *ucked some weedgie team
God save our Queen

They ain't victorious
just *ucking odious
now they'll stop boring us
with god save the Queen....

this tune should be in the charts

[Kaiser1962]

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Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone? Inverness have just posted an increased profit, I think.

Are we viable at the moment CWG?

Motherwell also posted a small profit and have no significant debt but, like St. Mirren, they do not have a particularly fruitful recent history.

Not sure what St.J posted this year (for 10-11) but in 09-10 they lost 60k having lost 190k in the previous season. They were in the first for seven seasons prior to this despite Geoff Browns famed eye for a manager.

(Edit: St. J appear to have been reasonably profitable for the last three years they were in the 1st, so perhaps its not the black hole some would have us believe)

Same with ICT in that last season (dont have figures) they were in the SPL having won promotion straight back from being relegated in 08-09. Figures for 08-09 show that they lost 114k having lost 432k the season before.

[PatHead]

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Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone? Inverness have just posted an increased profit, I think.

I think I read Hearts made a profit as well according to their latest set of accounts filed in the Fiction section of the library

[CropleyWasGod]

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Are we viable at the moment CWG?

Motherwell also posted a small profit and have no significant debt but, like St. Mirren, they do not have a particularly fruitful recent history.

Not sure what St.J posted this year (for 10-11) but in 09-10 they lost 60k having lost 190k in the previous season. They were in the first for seven seasons prior to this despite Geoff Browns famed eye for a manager.

(Edit: St. J appear to have been reasonably profitable for the last three years they were in the 1st, so perhaps its not the black hole some would have us believe)

Same with ICT in that last season (dont have figures) they were in the SPL having won promotion straight back from being relegated in 08-09. Figures for 08-09 show that they lost 114k having lost 432k the season before.

Yes we are viable, in the sense that, if our income drops, we are well placed to take the hit. We are well known (notorious?) for our ability to cut our cloth according to the market.

[pedroorange1875]

Maybe they would also like to request to get reinstated in the semi of the scottish cup. Maybe Mike Reilly has offered our place in the competition. This is becoming absolutely ridiculous, i think all the people involved in this Rangers fiasco have forgotten they are close to winding not in a positon to be dictating SPL rules and regulations. Its beyond unbelievable

[Alex Trager]

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Maybe they would also like to request to get reinstated in the semi of the scottish cup. Maybe Mike Reilly has offered our place in the competition. This is becoming absolutely ridiculous, i think all the people involved in this Rangers fiasco have forgotten they are close to winding not in a positon to be dictating SPL rules and regulations. Its beyond unbelievable

And yet the SPL still bows down to them. The SPL is an aboslote farce of a league, and whatsmore their continuous buggery with the old firm is showing it up for what it is. A joke

[Kaiser1962]

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Yes we are viable, in the sense that, if our income drops, we are well placed to take the hit. We are well known (notorious?) for our ability to cut our cloth according to the market.

I have no do doubt we are as well placed as any other club should income drop, and we respond appropriateley when things change, but perhaps we are the best of a bad lot.

[IndieHibby]

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Well in your email you said it was, you said if Hibs voted against the proposals but they were voted through anyway you would cease all support for Hibs. I could understand you saying if Hibs vote for the proposals I'll not support Hibs anymore. You've basically given the board an ultimatum on a situation they do not have 100% control over. I don't think that's fair on the board.

Personally supporting Hibs is ingrained in me, I think we've all been aware over time that the situations at Rangers and latterly Hearts wasn't fair, but we kept going back. I've already bought my season ticket and would have done so even if I knew in advance Rangers were getting away scot free.

Everything in life is corrupt. There is, and will always be, ways to cheat at everything. When we punish one thing another measure will simply be exploited. Corruption in sport will never go away, all we can do is try best deal with it when we can. I think we have to realise that in reality, the punishment given to Rangers will rest inbetween no punishment and the most severe punishment. The SPL resolutions are probably near enough that. Removing support for Hibs isn't going to help punish Rangers in any way at all. Fair enough if you feel you can just switch off your loyalty to Hibs and interest in football over the issue.

I respect your cynicism, but equally disagree. Yes, there will always be ways to cheat and yes, I agree that there will always be those who cheat. This doesn't mean cheats shouldn't be punished. In my opinion.

Hibs play in the SPL and if the SPL is corrupted, then by paying money to Hibs, I am, in effect, sponsoring corruption.

To imply that it should be harder for me to 'switch off my loyalty' (which isn't actually the issue here) implies that my support of Hibs should supercede my desire for sporting integrity.

It doesn't.

[CentreLine]

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I respect your cynicism, but equally disagree. Yes, there will always be ways to cheat and yes, I agree that there will always be those who cheat. This doesn't mean cheats shouldn't be punished. In my opinion.

Hibs play in the SPL and if the SPL is corrupted, then by paying money to Hibs, I am, in effect, sponsoring corruption.

To imply that it should be harder for me to 'switch off my loyalty' (which isn't actually the issue here) implies that my support of Hibs should supercede my desire for sporting integrity.

It doesn't.

Have to agree with you Indie, the SPL, SFL and SFA need to look very closely at what they are going to do if a Newco Rangers comes out of this mess. Get it wrong and they put the last nail in the coffin of the senior game in Scotland. Clearly there are a significant number of people who will not be prepared to continue supporting Scottish football if it blows any credibility it has left by failing to ensure any new club seeking admission to the leagues starts at the bottom. The message has to go out loud and clear that cheating will not be acceptable and the percieved size of the club involved cannot be allowed to stand in the way of that simple principal

[TrinityHibs]

Went to the Lyceum last night. Good show with a classic line. Alex Salmond is supposesd to be on the phone to his financial adviser who responds "Alex will you stop going on about Rangers and the fact that they are a very important institution in Scotland. I've aready agreed. They're like Carstairs just with more mentallers

[BroxburnHibee]

Reading a bit more about this Rangers fiasco and one point thats been made is this - if any of the bids involved a CVA as part of the deal then surely a preferred bidder status would have been announced by now.

So it looks to me like they all want to liquidate the huns.

My question is this.......................
































What a f*****g shame eh?

[CentreLine]

Slowly but surely the penny is dropping with at least some in the press

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...stice.17309455

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Slowly but surely the penny is dropping with at least some in the press

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...stice.17309455

Campbell Ogilvie, meanwhile, a Rangers director during much of this period, and now president of the SFA, admits to having had an EBT provided by the club. Ogilvie was given loans by Rangers which, to date, have not been repaid. "Perhaps I should have asked more questions [of Sir David Murray] during this time," he now says lamely, the adverse publicity horse having loudly bolted.


i think it's disgraceful that toad appears to be getting a very easy ride

[PatHead]

It keeps getting pushed out about losing the Sky TV deal. Surely no sponsor worth their salt would want to be associated with a corrupt organisation? Are the marketing people at the SPL not capable of "spinning" the integrity of the league to new sponsors and making up the loss?

[Spike Mandela]

I see C4's Alex Thomson is going to reveal the Glasgow journalist who has been threatening him, with evidence. Should be fun.

[John_the_angus_hibby]

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I see C4's Alex Thomson is going to reveal the Glasgow journalist who has been threatening him, with evidence. Should be fun.

When? On his blog and/or C4 news? I wonder who it was, a big name or an also ran print journo??


Sent from another universe!

[Spike Mandela]

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When? On his blog and/or C4 news? I wonder who it was, a big name or an also ran print journo??


Sent from another universe!

Radio Clyde 7pm apparently

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Today's essential reading... http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/...probabilities/

[Ozyhibby]

Blue knights about to withdraw according to the Herald.

[marinello59]

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Blue knights about to withdraw according to the Herald.

If that is true then liquidation seems all but inevitable now.