Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[JeMeSouviens]

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Unbelievable statement from Rangers Supporters Trust last night. A boycott - that'll certainly help their team get back on its feet! And what a poor show from the SPL in "reducing the stature of Scottish football as a whole". It's not like their own club would do anything like that.

Fantastic idea! If no Huns are going to turn up at other grounds, makes it even easier to kick them down to Div 3.

[PatHead]

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Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23823231/

That is the biggest turn around I have heard of since St Paul on the road to Damascus! Hope you don't mind if I attach this to the Poll by Cheshire. Maybe the press are at long last remembering there are other clubs!

[ancienthibby]

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That is the biggest turn around I have heard of since St Paul on the road to Damascus! Hope you don't mind if I attach this to the Poll by Cheshire. Maybe the press are at long last remembering there are other clubs!

Please do, Pat!

It needs the widest possible circulation!

[Dan Sarf]

Some insightful comments from a Mr. Goram in the Sun today:

"The SPL don’t half know how to kick a man when he’s down.
I’d like to say that their spanner-in-the-works statement shocked me when it was released on Wednesday.Sadly, it didn’t.The fact is NOTHING that self-serving mob ever do surprises me any more.
They've never done Rangers - or Celtic for that matter - any favours, nor are they ever likely to either."

[cabbageandribs1875]

there's only two andy gorams

[Bishop Hibee]

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Some insightful comments from a Mr. Goram in the Sun today:

"The SPL don’t half know how to kick a man when he’s down.
I’d like to say that their spanner-in-the-works statement shocked me when it was released on Wednesday.Sadly, it didn’t.The fact is NOTHING that self-serving mob ever do surprises me any more.
They've never done Rangers - or Celtic for that matter - any favours, nor are they ever likely to either."

Which Goram made that comment Obviously currying favour with the OF. Maybe needing a bit of dosh from speaking engagements to pay the rent on his caravan.

I heard Jim Traynor last night on Sportsound and he was saying the same thing as he says in his article in the Record. I hope the SPL 10 and Celtc have the bottle to punt the huns but I doubt it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Anyone watching this Mark Dingwall on Sky just now...a complete idiot of the highest order. Totally embarrassing and yet again the Huns are so ignorant to the cheating that they've overseen. Hope they rot in hell!

AKA grandmaster_suck, runs the swallow swallow site, a big bag o wind

[Hibs Class]

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there's only two andy gorams

and they are both fat ignorant bigots

[Hibs Class]

UEFA have noted their confidence that Scottish authorities will deal with Rangers appropriately

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17700729

It's an interesting choice of words. They are "entirely confident" that there will be "compliance with the national club licensing regulations" and in the "spirit of Uefa's club licensing and financial fair play regulations."

It feels like it may be more of a warning shot to the SFA/SPl than an expression of confidence, particularly the reference to the spirit of fair play.

[IndieHibby]

Didn't want anyone accusing me of not doing my bit....

Dear Sirs/Madam,

As one not normally taken to this kind of communication, I hope you recognise the strength of feeling required to motivate me to write to you.

For the record, I am (despite the last few terrible seasons) proud of our club, the infrastructure developments that you have made and am convinvced of the long-term strategy you seem to be taking, even if this has inevitably reduced the quality of the team on the park (notwithstanding poor managers!).

It is precisely for this reason, however, that I am deeply concerned by the recent proposals by Mr Doncaster which, on the face of it, seem to prepare the ground for re-entry of a 'Rangers Newco' to the league.

My concern is that we (Hibs fans) have sweetened the bitter pill of our recent poor league and cup form with sound financial management and infrastructure development. This sweetner would prove very bitter if Rangers (given their alledged cheating and tax-evasion) were competing against us in the SPL next season (given the largely-held view that they should be expelled from the league).

It is an outrageous affront to the notion of sporting integrity - the ONLY reason fans are interested in sport - that this may come to pass.

Accordingly, should Hibernian F.C. vote for any proposal that allows this to happen (or indeed if it does happen, even if HFC votes against it) then I will cease all suport for the Hibs (while they remain part of the SPL).

This is not an empty gesture and it will be with a heavy heart that I make such a decision. But in life, such decisions are often the hardest to make. In my experience, they tend also to be the right ones.

I am aware that there may be 'real-politik' affecting the thinking those like yourselves who 'run' our clubs and the game in Scotland. This, however, has little or no bearing on what fans like me percieve to be the over-riding concern at this point.

How can I encourage the next generation of Hibs fans to support a system which rewards cheating and tax-evasion at the expense of Hibs and the wider principles of sporting integrity?

Yours Faithfully,

[flash]

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Didn't want anyone accusing me of not doing my bit....

Not sure turning your back on Hibs even if they do what you want them to is"doing your bit."

[Brebners Bookie]

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Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23823231/

Wow, fairplay to Traynor. He has it right.

[pentlando]

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Didn't want anyone accusing me of not doing my bit....

You would cease supporting Hibs even in the event they vote against the proposals, which is what your email is asking them to do?? Bizarre.

[pentlando]

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Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23823231/

Bit worried that I agree with Traynor here. Relegating them to the bottom of Division 3 could actually be better for Rangers than the punishments outlined by the SPL. Maybe we should be considering this prospect too?

[bawheid]

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You would cease supporting Hibs even in the event they vote against the proposals, which is what your email is asking them to do?? Bizarre.

I think the point is that he would cease to support Scottish football, as it will have been shown up to be a sham. I would feel the same.

Scottish football needs to kick Rangers down to Division 3. If Scottish football doesn't do this, Hibs will suffer. Even if they didn't vote for it themselves.

[pentlando]

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I think the point is that he would cease to support Scottish football, as it will have been shown up to be a sham. I would feel the same.

Scottish football needs to kick Rangers down to Division 3. If Scottish football doesn't do this, Hibs will suffer. Even if they didn't vote for it themselves.

Yeah but his email was directly to Hibs. There's no point demanding Hibs do something if your support for Hibs is based on what other clubs vote for, not our own.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Yeah but his email was directly to Hibs. There's no point demanding Hibs do something if your support for Hibs is based on what other clubs vote for, not our own.

What about if your support was based on what Hibs vote for? Personally, I would feel much better about the whole sorry mess if Rod & co would come out and say they are 100% opposed to Phoenix clubs (not just Huns, all of them) and will vote against any measure designed to allow them direct access to the SPL.

Edit: sorry, didn't read the above posts. d'oh! Still think RP should put his cards on the table. How are folk supposed to make up their minds about ST renewals etc if we don't even know the position of our own club, let alone the others.

[jgl07]

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Bit worried that I agree with Traynor here. Relegating them to the bottom of Division 3 could actually be better for Rangers than the punishments outlined by the SPL. Maybe we should be considering this prospect too?

That is the Celtic agenda.

They want Rangers to stay in the SPL but to be crippled by cash withheld and points deductions to leave the field clear for.......... Celtic.

The odds are that Rangers even with financial penalties and points deductions will still finish second.

[IndieHibby]

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Yeah but his email was directly to Hibs. There's no point demanding Hibs do something if your support for Hibs is based on what other clubs vote for, not our own.

My support for Hibs is not based on what other clubs vote for. I have an interest in football (not the cheating, corrupt type) and as such I support Hibs. But what is the point of supporting a team that is not as good as it could be, when another team in the league can steal money from me and you (tax) to fund players that come out and beat us - time and again?

If that is your idea of sport then your are welcome to it.

Hence my email.

I want Hibs to do the right thing - I said as much. But if Hibs vote against the Newco, yet the Newco still enters the league and beats us every match, then how does that make the problem above go away? It doesn't - hence my point about not supporting a game that is corrupt.

I hope this clarifies my position.

[greenginger]

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Bit worried that I agree with Traynor here. Relegating them to the bottom of Division 3 could actually be better for Rangers than the punishments outlined by the SPL. Maybe we should be considering this prospect too?

Towards the end of the Article Traynor suggests Rangers can win promotions easily in the SFL and " hoard " the season ticket money for an assualt on the SPL when they return.

Any New-Co will have no previous losses to set against the vast fortunes Traynor believes will be accrued in the lower divisions and every penny profit would be subject to Corporation Tax at 30%.

Unless of course they intend to stiff the Tax - Man again.

[cabbageandribs1875]

the buns would claw back any -10 points deduction within the first 5/6 games, and any SPL money deducted(i've saw figures of approx 1.7m) would be clawed back with two high profile friendlies, if i was a betting man(which i'm not) i would safely bet on the buns winning the league next season :(

[IndieHibby]

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Not sure turning your back on Hibs even if they do what you want them to is"doing your bit."

Surely you can understand that the point is not that I am 'turning my back on Hibs' but 'turning my back on the SPL'?

But of course, we should just keep paying our hard earned cash to support a system rigged against us.

How silly of me - pass the vaseline when you're done....

[jgl07]

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the buns would claw back any -10 points deduction within the first 5/6 games, and any SPL money deducted(i've saw figures of approx 1.7m) would be clawed back with two high profile friendlies, if i was a betting man(which i'm not) i would safely bet on the buns winning the league next season :(

You appear to be missing something here.

The reason Rangers got into this mess was that they could not compete financially with Celtic who have a 10,000 more seats and usually at least 5,000 higher gates. They fiddled taxes, paid no-one and ran up debts to try and cover this up.

They will not be competing in Europe for three seasons at least so Celtic have a further potential income stream. Celtic will be seeded in two qualifying rounds for the Champions' League in the comparatively tranquil 'champions section of the draw. They can expect to face the likes HJK Helsinki or Molde in the third qualifying round and nothing harder than the Swiss Champions' in the playoff round. So Celtic should have a good chance at the group stages and vast quantities of cash.

That will all leave Celtic with a huge financial advantage over Rangers especially with the claw backs.

So a Newco would suddenly be able to pull 10 points back on Celtic in 5-6 games and win the SPL?

[easty]

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Excellent. Just think of the money clubs will save on policing Rangers fans.

You'd still need all the police, they'd be needed outside at the Huns "picket line".

Can you imagine those dirty unwashed ****my tramps screaming **** at any Huns fan that dared to oppose the boycott.....that'd be like being called ugly at a Stevie Fulton lookalike contest!

[cabbageandribs1875]

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You appear to be missing something here.

The reason Rangers got into this mess was that they could not compete financially with Celtic who have a 10,000 more seats and usually at least 5,000 higher gates. They fiddled taxes, paid no-one and ran up debts to try and cover this up.

They will not be competing in Europe for three seasons at least so Celtic have a further potential income stream. Celtic will be seeded in two qualifying rounds for the Champions' League in the comparatively tranquil 'champions section of the draw. They can expect to face the likes HJK Helsinki or Molde in the third qualifying round and nothing harder than the Swiss Champions' in the playoff round. So Celtic should have a good chance at the group stages and vast quantities of cash.

That will all leave Celtic with a huge financial advantage over Rangers especially with the claw backs.

So a Newco would suddenly be able to pull 10 points back on Celtic in 5-6 games and win the SPL?

ok i should have made that clearer, they would claw back the -10 point deficit against every team bar sellick, then all they would have to do is win there games against sellick... which is pefectly feasable yes ? even when they do go 'all legal' and start paying the taxman etc etc they will still get millions in investment, full houses etc etc, even with the off-field problems they have had the last few months they would still have only been 8 points behind sellick just now(without the -10 deduction they got) if they didn't have a couple of bad results they STILL could have won this seasons league, obviously i understand the points you make above, the loss of income from european games will be offset with glamour friendlies, lets just wait and see the league positions in exactly 12 months from now

[jgl07]

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ok i should have made that clearer, they would claw back the -10 point deficit against every team bar sellick, then all they would have to do is win there games against sellick... which is pefectly feasable yes ? even when they do go 'all legal' and start paying the taxman etc etc they will still get millions in investment, full houses etc etc, even with the off-field problems they have had the last few months they would still have only been 8 points behind sellick just now(without the -10 deduction they got) if they didn't have a couple of bad results they STILL could have won this seasons league, obviously i understand the points you make above, the loss of income from european games will be offset with glamour friendlies, lets just wait and see the league positions in exactly 12 months from now

Celtic gave Rangers a fifteen point lead and beat them easily regardless of the ten point penalty

There is little appetite to attend 'glamour friendlies' these days. If it was that easy they would have been doing it in the past.

I don't disagree about catching the rest after 5-6 matches but I can't see them winning the SPL for a year or two.

The Newco will have next to no players as I suspect that a good number will be off as their contracts will revert to the SPL or be nullified. They need to sort things out before they can start signing. It will be a major task to even put a team on the park for next season.

They may not even have a stadium if Craig Whyte contests the ownership issue regarding Ibrox.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Celtic gave Rangers a fifteen point lead and beat them easily regardless of the ten point penalty

There is little appetite to attend 'glamour friendlies' these days. If it was that easy they would have been doing it in the past.

I don't disagree about catching the rest after 5-6 matches but I can't see them winning the SPL for a year or two.

The Newco will have next to no players as I suspect that a good number will be off as their contracts will revert to the SPL or be nullified. They need to sort things out before they can start signing. It will be a major task to even put a team on the park for next season.

They may not even have a stadium if Craig Whyte contests the ownership issue regarding Ibrox.

on the contrary jg, they got an attendance of 47,521 just two weeks ago against AC milan, i'm not quite sure the whole story regarding that game, but i believe it went from being originally in aid of charity....to instead helping out the forces of darkness but anyway, i do hope you're predictions come true

[pentlando]

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My support for Hibs is not based on what other clubs vote for. I have an interest in football (not the cheating, corrupt type) and as such I support Hibs. But what is the point of supporting a team that is not as good as it could be, when another team in the league can steal money from me and you (tax) to fund players that come out and beat us - time and again?

If that is your idea of sport then your are welcome to it.

Hence my email.

I want Hibs to do the right thing - I said as much. But if Hibs vote against the Newco, yet the Newco still enters the league and beats us every match, then how does that make the problem above go away? It doesn't - hence my point about not supporting a game that is corrupt.

I hope this clarifies my position.

Well in your email you said it was, you said if Hibs voted against the proposals but they were voted through anyway you would cease all support for Hibs. I could understand you saying if Hibs vote for the proposals I'll not support Hibs anymore. You've basically given the board an ultimatum on a situation they do not have 100% control over. I don't think that's fair on the board.

Personally supporting Hibs is ingrained in me, I think we've all been aware over time that the situations at Rangers and latterly Hearts wasn't fair, but we kept going back. I've already bought my season ticket and would have done so even if I knew in advance Rangers were getting away scot free.

Everything in life is corrupt. There is, and will always be, ways to cheat at everything. When we punish one thing another measure will simply be exploited. Corruption in sport will never go away, all we can do is try best deal with it when we can. I think we have to realise that in reality, the punishment given to Rangers will rest inbetween no punishment and the most severe punishment. The SPL resolutions are probably near enough that. Removing support for Hibs isn't going to help punish Rangers in any way at all. Fair enough if you feel you can just switch off your loyalty to Hibs and interest in football over the issue.

[johnrebus]

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Celtic gave Rangers a fifteen point lead and beat them easily regardless of the ten point penalty

There is little appetite to attend 'glamour friendlies' these days. If it was that easy they would have been doing it in the past.

I don't disagree about catching the rest after 5-6 matches but I can't see them winning the SPL for a year or two.

The Newco will have next to no players as I suspect that a good number will be off as their contracts will revert to the SPL or be nullified. They need to sort things out before they can start signing. It will be a major task to even put a team on the park for next season.

They may not even have a stadium if Craig Whyte contests the ownership issue regarding Ibrox.

This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.

[Dashing Bob S]

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This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.

Sadly true. The footballing, political and media authorities will ensure this is the case.

Another sad truth: as the result of the above, attendances at the other ten clubs will decline to the point where most of them are no longer viable.