Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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Aye. I keep going back to Paul Murray's assertion that he doesn't want to have to buy a whole new squad come the summer, that he wants the current players to remain at Rangers. How does he intend managing that one without overspending again? Can they not just die already, my heed is burstin' wi it all

... F that. What would I do with my Hibs.net then? talk about fitba?

[ehf]

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Lord Hodge judgment is too much info for a Friday night or any other time for that matter, but one Clause seems to jump out of the text.


Clause 36 states Ticketus rights would " prevail a CVA or a winding up order "


I think Duff and Duffer are ,in football terminology, trying to take some positives out of a 6 - nil home defeat.

Sadly not: that would have been the position had there been an effective trust but there isn't.

[ehf]

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My tuppence worth on the Ticketus result, having re-read the actual decision, rather than the BBC/STV interpretation.....

The "contractual rights" to which everyone is referring are, IMO, first dibs on the ST sales. At the moment, assuming ST's aren't on sale yet for next season, that's nowt. Once they go on sale, then RFC would be due Ticketus £6m. It's that part that I reckon they are talking about setting aside.

Also, RFC are already due £6m for this season. That part would rank as an ordinary creditor alongside everybody else.

What would happen to the deal if and when RFC come out of admin? I reckon it would have to stand... the Judge only said that the admins have the right to break it, not the company once it is out of admin.

So... £6m gets put in the CVA just now, maybe £6m to follow soon.... and the remaining £12m stands as already contracted.

That's my take.... Cav, where are you?

Lord Hodge has effectively given the Administrators licence to break the contract: that would bring it to an end and Ticketus rank as an ordinary creditor.RFC (or, more likely, Cheating Hun Newco) then have enuncumbered rights to future ST income.

[grunt]

Not £24m - it's now £30m paid by Ticketus.
And these guys are investment managers???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-17489451

[CropleyWasGod]

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Lord Hodge has effectively given the Administrators licence to break the contract: that would bring it to an end and Ticketus rank as an ordinary creditor.RFC (or, more likely, Cheating Hun Newco) then have enuncumbered rights to future ST income.

If Ticketus are part of the Blue Knights deal, though, they will get that cash back in other ways. They will probably charge the BK a ridiculous rate of interest.

[BarneyK]

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If Ticketus are part of the Blue Knights deal, though, they will get that cash back in other ways. They will probably charge the BK a ridiculous rate of interest.

It's a surreal situation, right enough, one where Ticketus are complicit in ripping themselves off to the tune of £30 million.

[down-the-slope]

Look who cares about the fine detail right now...there is Bugg*r all chance of accounts / out of admin in the next 8 days now...so no Huns / NewCo Huns in Europe next year...

Thats another financial torpedo in them sorted....

Ticketas deal is an odd one due to them being deffered creditors...so they can't just be stiffed with a CVA like others as the debt (or most of it is not due)...would love to know just how its structured as if its well done then whoever playes at Ibrox next 3 years has in effect onlt 27,000 seats to sell....that should help level the playing field a bit

[ehf]

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If Ticketus are part of the Blue Knights deal, though, they will get that cash back in other ways. They will probably charge the BK a ridiculous rate of interest.

Ticketus were the BK's trump card until today but they're superfluous now as their contract is worthless: the BKs don't need them and Ticketus donb't need the BKs - they will now concentrate on suing their lawyers for negligence.

[PaulSmith]

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Ticketus were the BK's trump card until today but they're superfluous now as their contract is worthless: the BKs don't need them and Ticketus donb't need the BKs - they will now concentrate on suing their lawyers for negligence.

I'm not sure that the lawyers firm would be found liable and ticketus certainly wouldn't be able to get their £30m back from them.
They will however go through the due legal process to ensure that Rangers 1874 pay up.
"Ticketus don't do walking away"

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ticketus were the BK's trump card until today but they're superfluous now as their contract is worthless: the BKs don't need them and Ticketus donb't need the BKs - they will now concentrate on suing their lawyers for negligence.

They need their cash, no?

[TornadoHibby]

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It's a surreal situation, right enough, one where Ticketus are complicit in ripping themselves off to the tune of £30 million.

A juxtaposition?

[TornadoHibby]

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I'm not sure that the lawyers firm would be found liable and ticketus certainly wouldn't be able to get their £30m back from them.
They will however go through the due legal process to ensure that Rangers 1874 pay up.
"Ticketus don't do walking away"

I imagine that whoever didn't attend properly to getting the RFC due diligence & credit checks done accurately will be in the firing line unless Ticketus knew what the position with RFC was when the deal was signed!

[ehf]

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I'm not sure that the lawyers firm would be found liable and ticketus certainly wouldn't be able to get their £30m back from them.
They will however go through the due legal process to ensure that Rangers 1874 pay up.
"Ticketus don't do walking away"

There are two possibilities:

1. Ticketus used their usual English lawyers to do the deal and those lawyers did not recommend getting Scottish legal advice. If so, those English lawyers were negligent.

2. They did get Scottish advice, in which case the Scottish lawyers concerned failed to explain what would happen in the event of RFC going into administration, so were negligent.

Either way, the lawyers PI insurers will have to pay out.

[ehf]

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They need their cash, no?

Ticketus are not going to chuck any more cash at Rangers now: their contract is worthless.

[CropleyWasGod]

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There are two possibilities:

1. Ticketus used their usual English lawyers to do the deal and those lawyers did not recommend getting Scottish legal advice. If so, those English lawyers were negligent.

2. They did get Scottish advice, in which case the Scottish lawyers concerned failed to explain what would happen in the event of RFC going into administration, so were negligent.

Either way, the lawyers PI insurers will have to pay out.

Third scenario.....What if said lawyers did give that advice, and they went ahead anyway?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ticketus are not going to chuck any more cash at Rangers now: their contract is worthless.

My point, though, was that the Knights need Ticketus' cash. If what you're saying is correct, then the BK are struggling.

[ehf]

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Third scenario.....What if said lawyers did give that advice, and they went ahead anyway?

Possible, but very unlikely.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ticketus are not going to chuck any more cash at Rangers now: their contract is worthless.

Their statement suggests they think otherwise:-

Ticketus responded to what it termed the "decision by Lord Hodge not to grant the administrators' request for the court to give them the right to tear up the ticket purchase agreement Ticketus has with Rangers Football Club".
In a statement, the firm said: "The legality of Ticketus' contract was not an issue.
"The court has made it clear today that the Ticketus contract cannot be breached unless there is substantial evidence that by doing so the administrators are able to significantly improve returns for creditors and improve the chance of returning the club to a going concern.
"Given the strength of the Blue Knights Consortium's bid, and Ticketus' role in this with its contract remaining valid and enforceable, we question the ability for this to happen."
The finance firm said it has a "duty to its investors to protect the investment that it currently has in the club" and said it would "do everything necessary to defend our position to ensure our contract is honoured and our investors' interests are protected".
On the Blue Knights Consortium bid, the statement added: "We are confident that the consortium's bid is in the best interests of the club, its fans and creditors by guaranteeing the future of Rangers and ending this period of uncertainty for the club.
"Collectively, the consortium has the ability to provide the club with the financial stability it needs to continue to perform at the highest level of competition.
"The consortium is committed to providing Rangers' loyal fan base with the transparency and disclosure it deserves, as well as exploring ways for fans to have a closer relationship with the management of their club".

[ehf]

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My point, though, was that the Knights need Ticketus' cash. If what you're saying is correct, then the BK are struggling.

Correct, they're on a level playing field with other bidders. It's all down to the big tax case now, which means (as HMRC will defo win that) that the preferred bidder will have to ante up a minimum of 100 million.

[RyeSloan]

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Their statement suggests they think otherwise:-

Ticketus responded to what it termed the "decision by Lord Hodge not to grant the administrators' request for the court to give them the right to tear up the ticket purchase agreement Ticketus has with Rangers Football Club".
In a statement, the firm said: "The legality of Ticketus' contract was not an issue.
"The court has made it clear today that the Ticketus contract cannot be breached unless there is substantial evidence that by doing so the administrators are able to significantly improve returns for creditors and improve the chance of returning the club to a going concern.
"Given the strength of the Blue Knights Consortium's bid, and Ticketus' role in this with its contract remaining valid and enforceable, we question the ability for this to happen."
The finance firm said it has a "duty to its investors to protect the investment that it currently has in the club" and said it would "do everything necessary to defend our position to ensure our contract is honoured and our investors' interests are protected".
On the Blue Knights Consortium bid, the statement added: "We are confident that the consortium's bid is in the best interests of the club, its fans and creditors by guaranteeing the future of Rangers and ending this period of uncertainty for the club.
"Collectively, the consortium has the ability to provide the club with the financial stability it needs to continue to perform at the highest level of competition.
"The consortium is committed to providing Rangers' loyal fan base with the transparency and disclosure it deserves, as well as exploring ways for fans to have a closer relationship with the management of their club".

No matter what Ticketus say you have to admit that they have got themselves into one hell of a hole here....this type of investment is meant to leverage a certain percentage return not leave them fighting over the carcass of a busted flush to try and salvage their up front cash.

[CropleyWasGod]

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No matter what Ticketus say you have to admit that they have got themselves into one hell of a hole here....this type of investment is meant to leverage a certain percentage return not leave them fighting over the carcass of a busted flush to try and salvage their up front cash.

For sure.

The bit I like, though, is that they are determined to hold on to their contract. Which, of course, means more Court time.

[jgl07]

Scene:

Duff and Phelps Insolvency Practice

Cast:

Paul Clark of Duff and Phelps played by Michael Palin

Irate Customer played by John Cleese

The sketch:

An irate customer enters the insolvency practise

Irate customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

(Clark does not respond.)

Irate customer: 'Ello, Miss?

Clark: What do you mean "miss"?

Irate customer: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

Clark: We're closin' for lunch.

Irate customer: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this football club what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very insolvency practice.

Clark: Oh yes, the, uh, the Bigotted Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

Irate customer: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'it's bust, that's what's wrong with it!

Clark: No, no, 'e's uh,...it's debt free.

Irate customer: Look, matey, I know a bankrupt club when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

(Irate customer brandishes portfolio of bank statements and documents)

Irate customer: As soon as a took the club home some guy in a bowler hat from HMRC demanded £70 million. Then some ticket tout said he was looking for most of our ticket money for the next four years. Finally some spiv came around saying he was the real owner of the club.

Clark: No no it's not bust, it's recovering'! Remarkable club, the Bigotted Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful away strip!

Irate customer: The away strip don't enter into it. It's totally insolvent.

Clark: Nononono, no, no! it's emerging from administration!

Irate customer: All right then, if it's recovering', I'll check it's bank balance! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Mister Broxi Bear! I've got a lovely cash injection for you if you show any sign of life...

(Clark hits the nudges the portfolio)

Owner: There, it moved!

Irate customer: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the portfolio!

Clark: I never!!

Irate customer: Yes, you did!

Clark: I never, never did anything...

Irate customer: (yelling and hitting the portfolio repeatedly) 'ELLO BROXI!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your financial health checkl!

(Takes bank statement out of the portfolio and thumps it on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it fall to the floor and bounce up and down.)

Irate customer: Now that's what I call an insolvent club.

Clark: No, no.....No, it's got a short-term cash flow problem!

Irate customer: A short-term cash flow problem?!?

Clark: Yeah! You spent all the bank balance by payin' the wage bill, just as it was moving into profitability! Bigotted Blues eun of of cash easily, major.

Irate customer: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That club is definitely bust, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of cash was due to it bein' tired and ****ged out following a prolonged title celebration party.

Clark: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the Boyne.

Irate customer: PININ' for the BOYNE?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why was the bank account empty the moment I got 'im home?

Clark: The Bigotted Blue prefers running with limited financial reserves! Remarkable club, id'nit, squire? Lovely home strip!

Irate customent: Look, I took the liberty of examining the clubs' books when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it was still in the League was that it had been NAILED there.

(pause)

Clark: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have been out of the SPL, and legged in to the English Premier League and the Champions' League Group stages. VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

Irate customer: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this club wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'it's bleedin' demised!

Clark: No no! 'it's recovering!

Irate customer: 'it's not recovering'! 'it's passed on! This club is no more! It has ceased to be! 'It's expired and gone to meet its maker! 'it's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the SPL 'it'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'it's off the twig! 'it's kicked the bucket, 'it's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-CLUB!! If you hadn't cooked the books it would be in oblivion with Third Lanark, Aidrieonians and Gretna.

(pause)

Clark: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of Blues.

Irate customent: I see. I see, I get the picture. Have you not got any Paranoid Greens?

Clark: No we've got no Greens at the moment.

(pause)

We're expecting a Manky Maroon in any day now

Irate customer: Pray, does it win things?

Clark: Nnnnot really.

Irate customer: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

[monktonharp]

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Scene:

Duff and Phelps Insolvency Practice

Cast:

Paul Clark of Duff and Phelps played by Michael Palin

Irate Customer played by John Cleese

The sketch:

An irate customer enters the insolvency practise

Irate customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

(Clark does not respond.)

Irate customer: 'Ello, Miss?

Clark: What do you mean "miss"?

Irate customer: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

Clark: We're closin' for lunch.

Irate customer: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this football club what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very insolvency practice.

Clark: Oh yes, the, uh, the Bigotted Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

Irate customer: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'it's bust, that's what's wrong with it!

Clark: No, no, 'e's uh,...it's debt free.

Irate customer: Look, matey, I know a bankrupt club when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

(Irate customer brandishes portfolio of bank statements and documents)

Irate customer: As soon as a took the club home some guy in a bowler hat from HMRC demanded £70 million. Then some ticket tout said he was looking for most of our ticket money for the next four years. Finally some spiv came around saying he was the real owner of the club.

Clark: No no it's not bust, it's recovering'! Remarkable club, the Bigotted Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful away strip!

Irate customer: The away strip don't enter into it. It's totally insolvent.

Clark: Nononono, no, no! it's emerging from administration!

Irate customer: All right then, if it's recovering', I'll check it's bank balance! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Mister Broxi Bear! I've got a lovely cash injection for you if you show any sign of life...

(Clark hits the nudges the portfolio)

Owner: There, it moved!

Irate customer: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the portfolio!

Clark: I never!!

Irate customer: Yes, you did!

Clark: I never, never did anything...

Irate customer: (yelling and hitting the portfolio repeatedly) 'ELLO BROXI!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your financial health checkl!

(Takes bank statement out of the portfolio and thumps it on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it fall to the floor and bounce up and down.)

Irate customer: Now that's what I call an insolvent club.

Clark: No, no.....No, it's got a short-term cash flow problem!

Irate customer: A short-term cash flow problem?!?

Clark: Yeah! You spent all the bank balance by payin' the wage bill, just as it was moving into profitability! Bigotted Blues eun of of cash easily, major.

Irate customer: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That club is definitely bust, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of cash was due to it bein' tired and ****ged out following a prolonged title celebration party.

Clark: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the Boyne.

Irate customer: PININ' for the BOYNE?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why was the bank account empty the moment I got 'im home?

Clark: The Bigotted Blue prefers running with limited financial reserves! Remarkable club, id'nit, squire? Lovely home strip!

Irate customent: Look, I took the liberty of examining the clubs' books when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it was still in the League was that it had been NAILED there.

(pause)

Clark: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have been out of the SPL, and legged in to the English Premier League and the Champions' League Group stages. VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

Irate customer: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this club wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'it's bleedin' demised!

Clark: No no! 'it's recovering!

Irate customer: 'it's not recovering'! 'it's passed on! This club is no more! It has ceased to be! 'It's expired and gone to meet its maker! 'it's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the SPL 'it'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'it's off the twig! 'it's kicked the bucket, 'it's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-CLUB!! If you hadn't cooked the books it would be in oblivion with Third Lanark, Aidrieonians and Gretna.

(pause)

Clark: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of Blues.

Irate customent: I see. I see, I get the picture. Have you not got any Paranoid Greens?

Clark: No we've got no Greens at the moment.

(pause)

We're expecting a Manky Maroon in any day now

Irate customer: Pray, does it win things?

Clark: Nnnnot really.

Irate customer: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

f/kin fanstasticmakes my amazonian parrot look decidedly chirpy!

[soupy]

Good stuff mate :-D

[BarneyK]

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Scene:

Duff and Phelps Insolvency Practice

Cast:

Paul Clark of Duff and Phelps played by Michael Palin

Irate Customer played by John Cleese

Brilliant

[Jack]

Ah, the famous Norwegian Blue. Tore André Flo. The three worst strikers in the SPL.

He was the start of it :-)

[BEEJ]

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Scene:

Duff and Phelps Insolvency Practice

Cast:

Paul Clark of Duff and Phelps played by Michael Palin

Irate Customer played by John Cleese

............

Clever!

[down-the-slope]

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Look who cares about the fine detail right now...there is Bugg*r all chance of accounts / out of admin in the next 8 days now...so no Huns / NewCo Huns in Europe next year...

Thats another financial torpedo in them sorted....

Ticketas deal is an odd one due to them being deffered creditors...so they can't just be stiffed with a CVA like others as the debt (or most of it is not due)...would love to know just how its structured as if its well done then whoever playes at Ibrox next 3 years has in effect onlt 27,000 seats to sell....that should help level the playing field a bit

Any comment on bit in bold it must make a difference to how things are treated - they have the right to sell seats in a stadium IN THE FUTURE....if that contract is legal then I can only see liquidation deal with it as a future liability...


End of latest BBC report on yesterdays court case makes great reading

If the preferred bidder cannot secure a deal with holders of 75% of the value of the debt, then there remains a possibility that the club could be liquidated.

And remember Cragie boy is still adamant he is a preffered creditor...lots of money still to be made by lawyers

[ginger_rice]

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"The consortium is committed to providing Rangers' loyal fan base

Didn't take them long to learn the "correct" terminology

[Caversham Green]

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My tuppence worth on the Ticketus result, having re-read the actual decision, rather than the BBC/STV interpretation.....

The "contractual rights" to which everyone is referring are, IMO, first dibs on the ST sales. At the moment, assuming ST's aren't on sale yet for next season, that's nowt. Once they go on sale, then RFC would be due Ticketus £6m. It's that part that I reckon they are talking about setting aside.

Also, RFC are already due £6m for this season. That part would rank as an ordinary creditor alongside everybody else.

What would happen to the deal if and when RFC come out of admin? I reckon it would have to stand... the Judge only said that the admins have the right to break it, not the company once it is out of admin.

So... £6m gets put in the CVA just now, maybe £6m to follow soon.... and the remaining £12m stands as already contracted.

That's my take.... Cav, where are you?

I'm staying out of it all.

Actually, I think the question was whether the Ticketus agreement should be considered a sale of "goods", whereby T already own the tickets despite the fact that they don't physically exist yet - a bit like wine en primeur I think - or an agreement to produce future goods - gimme £1,000 and I'll tarmac yer drive next month.

If it was the former there was nothing RFC could do to get the goods back short of repaying the whole sum, which we know they couldn't do. On the other hand, if RFC liquidated T were stuffed because the goods became worthless - thet's the investment risk, although I would surmise from the wording of the judgement that the tickets were for 'home games at Ibrox' rather than 'Rangers FC home games' so they'd be safe enough in the emergence of a phoenix company.

The judge appears to have decided on the latter, so it becomes more like a contract for future services and, as we already know, the administrators have the right to tear those up and T then become ordinary creditors to be considered with the others in a CVA. T's defence here seems to be that it cannot be in the interests of all of the creditors to introduce a massive new one, thereby diluting everyone's claim to a payout. The counter argument is that the business can be sold for more without the burden of the deferred income having been received pre-administration.

On a side issue, Para 16 in the judgement makes the point I alluded to in an earlier life - the lending of money by RFC to Wavetower was illegal because it was effectively financing the purchase of it's own shares. I was beginning to doubt my own sanity on that one because no-one else seems to have picked up on it.