Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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These 'Blue Knight' characters, and others like them, may well have hun wellbeing at heart but there's not a chance you'd take a punt on the club at the moment unless you could afford to write off the thick end of £100m for zero return.

My man on the ground says liquidation is the likely outcome. Rangers Football Club will cease to exist.

Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

[magpie1892]

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By rights by now Rankgers should have been stripped bare, relegated or thrown out of the league, and several people would be perp walked. But it seems like business as usual.

I'm not so sure. I think, finally, it's beginning to dawn on the SFA and SPL that they can't just call it a ten point deduction and leave it at that - assuming that hun remain a going concern, which looks a long shot. In this day and age, and with UEFA watching, the 'powers that be' are going to have to ask the clubs what they want if hun or new hun are to have any future in Scottish Football.

[Cropley10]

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You have to bear in mind that this is administration. There are legal requirements that must be taken care of which by far transcend any bias, perceived or otherwise. By the way, I'm with you, its obscene that the Pars aren't getting their dough, but its not Rangers getting away with murder.

If the administrators dont cut costs - which may be a universal pay cut rather than redundancies - they are being delinquent in their duties. Frankly, depending on when the salary pay dates fall due, there may be no advantage in making someone redundant today if theyve been paid up to the weekend. Just a thought.

I concur. All the players were paid in full and on time the other day. Assuming it's in arrears then they're now playing for 'free' until such time as they're salary is due to be paid later in March, so sacking them today means they can't play tomorrow, and they 'might' not actually have another pay day, or D&P 'might' get their hands on more of CW's cash to pay them....

Funny how the MSM are falling over themselves to tell us that players will be 'axed'...

[Cropley10]

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Possibly, actually. Traynor asked about that a couple of weeks ago.

I doubt that it was all paid at once, though.

And then there's the Arsenal shares money.

I read that they turned down £7m from WHUFC, as it was in installments, but took the EFC cash as it was upfront.

[magpie1892]

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Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

Sure, it's 99% of the time a vanity purchase but these guys haven't got £100m so throw away. Certainly not on a club in as poor and low-profile league as the SPL.

Interesting times ahead but, with a certainty of 95%, the rangers we know and dislike is finished in its current form.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I read that they turned down £7m from WHUFC, as it was in installments, but took the EFC cash as it was upfront.

Ah okay, I didn't know that.

[Cropley10]

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Whose interests are they serving?

They are answerable to the Court, as I understand it.

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But a promise doesn't mean there's money there, I could promise to buy everyone on this site a pint at the next home game, doesn't mean I'm going to do it though.

It as written in to the Share Purchase Agreement what Whyte had to do

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In admin that wouldn't happen, offer creditors 10-15p in the pound, HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) that'd be the Jelevic money, Ticketus would get their money evey year and new investors start off with no debt and whatever they invest to spend. Say 5 investors at £5m each, start new Rangers off with £25 revenue and no debt.

I don't believe HMRC do deals for tax owing, certainly not PAYE/NIC/VAT - that is non-negotiable.

RFC1873 are goosed.

What we must ALL do is make such a noise that RFC2012 can NOT be admitted back to the SPL.

[jgl07]

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Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

The other ones to have made money from a football club are the Glazers who have been bleeding Man United white since their leveraged takeover (chortle).

I agree with the 'take a hit now' argument. It could be less than five years if the meltdown of Rangers and Hearts acts a a catalyst for restructuring Scottish Football. Start in Division 3 in 2012-2013 and win it,. There may be a 18-team SPL and a 24-team SPL 2 emerging by 2013-2014. Rangers and Hearts could be back in by 2014-2015.

[Mikey]

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Rangers Football Club will cease to exist.

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the rangers we know and dislike is finished in its current form.

You certainly have a way with words

[BSEJVT]

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In admin that wouldn't happen, offer creditors 10-15p in the pound, HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) that'd be the Jelevic money, Ticketus would get their money evey year and new investors start off with no debt and whatever they invest to spend. Say 5 investors at £5m each, start new Rangers off with £25 revenue and no debt.

Not so sure Ticketus would and that's maybe the angle here

I would have thought they were unsecured creditors who get ****pence in the £

Whyte buys the company out of admin and ends up with a company he could have paid £18m for for say £1m from the Administrators

Next years season ticket money comes back into the coffers

Revenue also get ****pence on the NI & PAYE and old Rangers are liquidated to be replaced by new Rangers

[Andy74]

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The other ones to have made money from a football club are the Glazers who have been bleeding Man United white since their leveraged takeover (chortle).

I agree with the 'take a hit now' argument. It could be less than five years if the meltdown of Rangers and Hearts acts a a catalyst for restructuring Scottish Football. Start in Division 3 in 2012-2013 and win it,. There may be a 18-team SPL and a 24-team SPL 2 emerging by 2013-2014. Rangers and Hearts could be back in by 2014-2015.

Hearts still won't admit they have a problem though.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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You certainly have a way with words

I like him.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

The more this goes on, the more this is the only fair sporting outcome open to the SFA.

Much as I'd personally like to see them eviscerated to the extent of permament extinction, it is a sad fact that there are enough of these repugnant reptiles to ensure they keep going as rfc2012. Actually going down might be a boost for the game - full houses in div 3 and 2 and 1 as they come back up, possibly humbler (although that's a long shot, I know). It'd be a abugger if you were relegated form div 2 the year the huns got promoted though.

Dream scenario would be Hearts and Rangers battling it out fo rthe 3rd division crown next season. That would be very funny. Do they still do the B&Q Cup in some form?

[blindsummit]

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I'm not so sure. I think, finally, it's beginning to dawn on the SFA and SPL that they can't just call it a ten point deduction and leave it at that - assuming that hun remain a going concern, which looks a long shot. In this day and age, and with UEFA watching, the 'powers that be' are going to have to ask the clubs what they want if hun or new hun are to have any future in Scottish Football.

I sincerely hope you are right. As I say, I think this is the one window of opportunity to save the Scottish game for the future. We'll see if the powers that be have the stomach for it.

[ac1]

Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed !

Liquidation I think..............

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed !

Liquidation I think..............

May I just say to all at Rangers :giruy:

[TrinityHibs]

Can we not just get Rentokil in to sort out this mess?

[Phil D. Rolls]

A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.

-How is that possible? They already make the BNP look credible.

[DH1875]

1 million a month, where they gonna get that from? these administrators aren't half dragging their heals. Shut them down.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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-How is that possible? They already make the BNP look credible.

Fair play, but I rather see them as being like the likes of the Peronists in Argentina.

[Dashing Bob S]

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A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.

Aaaaaggghhhh!!!!


I thought 'how is that possible?'


Then I thought it through, and you could be right. Take the existing white trash bigoted lowlife fan base, and shear it of its sense of entitlement, pomp, and delusions of grandeur of being the team of 'the crown and the British establishment in Scotland', and add a good measure of hunted, persecuted bitterness. The only place for it to go is to resurrect as some pseudo sporting falangist movement.

Have Hearts been informed?

[greenginger]

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Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed !

Liquidation I think..............

Save a million a month, not a problem - start with sensible wages £2000 a week maximum, and do they really need 13 in media dept and 22 in marketing, never mind 20 coaches.

Operate like Inverness or St Johnston and they could repay all their debts in 10 years.


Oh, but I forgot they believe that -- " They Deserve Better "

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Time for the calculators to come out I think. Rallying call is to fill Ibroke from now until the season end. Against Killie, we could all hear the "fans" that had been missing. So, it is extra revenue, less the repeat fines for the open racism from the stands? That might just even itself out.

[ancient hibee]

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Dear god no, nothing remotely attractive about Sally Magnuson.

Wash your mouth out with soap young man.

[Bishop Hibee]

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They are answerable to the Court, as I understand it.



It as written in to the Share Purchase Agreement what Whyte had to do



I don't believe HMRC do deals for tax owing, certainly not PAYE/NIC/VAT - that is non-negotiable.

RFC1873 are goosed.

What we must ALL do is make such a noise that RFC2012 can NOT be admitted back to the SPL.

Agree. It's looking more and more likely that Rangers will go into liquidation as opposed to a "blue knight" coming to the rescue. The revelations by Hugh Adam in the Daily Mail are mind boggling. If the SFA are complicit in ignoring the EBT issue then I doubt any investor will go near Rangers with a barge pole until the whole sorry mess is exposed.

If they do try for re-entry into the SPL then we must all write to the Hibs board expressing our disagreement. I never thought I"d stop getting a ST for anything other than financial pressure but I'd have to think seriously if I'd bother if they get back in.

Loving their demise :giruy:

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Agree. It's looking more and more likely that Rangers will go into liquidation as opposed to a "blue knight" coming to the rescue. The revelations by Hugh Adam in the Daily Mail are mind boggling. If the SFA are complicit in ignoring the EBT issue then I doubt any investor will go near Rangers with a barge pole until the whole sorry mess is exposed.

If they do try for re-entry into the SPL then we must all write to the Hibs board expressing our disagreement. I never thought I"d stop getting a ST for anything other than financial pressure but I'd have to think seriously if I'd bother if they get back in.

Loving their demise :giruy:

In the interests of fair play, which is something I hope we have and which der Hun lacks. Supposing fans of other clubs had objected to our return to football in 1990 (had we been liquidated)?

People could level the same charge of cheating against us. We got into trouble because we were spending money that didn't exist. We managed to salvage the football club from the wreckage, and then went on to win the League Cup three monts later.

What's sauce for the goose, etc.

(btw my answer to the question is: so what, this is the horrible huns we are talking about, and they have been acting against the interests of other clubs for 100 years, and deserve everything they are about to get off with.

[CropleyWasGod]

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In the interests of fair play, which is something I hope we have and which der Hun lacks. Supposing fans of other clubs had objected to our return to football in 1990 (had we been liquidated)?

People could level the same charge of cheating against us. We got into trouble because we were spending money that didn't exist. We managed to salvage the football club from the wreckage, and then went on to win the League Cup three monts later.

What's sauce for the goose, etc.

(btw my answer to the question is: so what, this is the horrible huns we are talking about, and they have been acting against the interests of other clubs for 100 years, and deserve everything they are about to get off with.

Two different situations , FR.

We were able to restructure and trade out of it. We paid our taxes. We didn't stiff any other clubs. We didn't stiff anybody, IIRC. (except maybe Messrs. Duff, Gray and Rowland.)

RFC are absolutely unable to trade out of this, without the silliest of silly money coming their way from the silliest of silly people.

[Hibernia&Alba]

'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.

[CropleyWasGod]

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'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.

Well, I dunno about you, but that has certainly changed my mind.