Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Cropley10]

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What's the latest news? Will there be players released today?

No, this is the first ever administration of a football Club where players haven't been released. Naismith is injured, but is still being paid as is Lafferty. Admin have let Russell and Smith go but the rest remain. Meanwhile the Pars can't meet their wage bill. It's a farce.

[Twa Cairpets]

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No, this is the first ever administration of a football Club where players haven't been released. Naismith is injured, but is still being paid as is Lafferty. Admin have let Russell and Smith go but the rest remain. Meanwhile the Pars can't meet their wage bill. It's a farce.

Eh? The announcements are due this afternoon, BBC speculating 11 players and 50% wage cut.

[Cropley10]

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Quick look at Wiki says yes - If you take out results against Rangers, Motherwell drop from 54 points to 48 (2 wins, 2 defeats v. Rangers), we drop from 53 to 49 (1 win, 1 draw, 2 defeats) and Celtc drop from 51 to 44 (2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat).

Hibs 49
Motherwell 48
Celtc 44

In a liquidation event all points won are removed. In a situation where second contracts the result changes to a nil-3 loss to the offender.

Not sure what difference this makes, but if Rangers cheated Well wouldn't lose the points they won, we'd just gain them too.

[Moulin Yarns]

STV reports that Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps have secured a court order to seize £3.6m from Craig Whyte’s solicitors. Collyer Bristow received money for season ticket sales sold to Ticketus before the takeover last May. It is understood that this will not affect any decisions on reduncancies

[J-C]

If 11 1st team squad are released, who would take at ER??

[CropleyWasGod]

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STV reports that Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps have secured a court order to seize £3.6m from Craig Whyte’s solicitors. Collyer Bristow received money for season ticket sales sold to Ticketus before the takeover last May. It is understood that this will not affect any decisions on reduncancies

So.....in my book, that just about squares CW's account with Rangers. He is neither a debtor nor a creditor.

And it seems an IP agrees with me, too:-

An insolvency practitioner, experienced in dealing with handling football clubs in administration said: "To me it is quite simple. Mr Whyte has taken £24m out the club. Whether he is guaranteeing that money or not it doesn't matter. To me this means he has no right to that security over the assets." (from the Herald, 27/2/12)

[CropleyWasGod]

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If 11 1st team squad are released, who would take at ER??

Naeb'dy. We wouldn't be allowed to play them, apparently.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Radio Clyde are saying no redundancies will be announced today and tomorrow's game goes ahead as normal. They're getting away with murder but it's merely a stay of execution. Justice is coming.

[andrew70]

Anyone think that this delay of redundancies is because the Administrators are preparing the club for liquidation using the players as scapegoats ie refusal to accept pay cuts etc.

[Cropley10]

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Eh? The announcements are due this afternoon, BBC speculating 11 players and 50% wage cut.

Speculation you say. No one has or will be released today. Meanwhile the Pars have to whistle for their cash.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Anyone think that this delay of redundancies is because the Administrators are preparing the club for liquidation using the players as scapegoats ie refusal to accept pay cuts etc.

That would be contrary to the terms of their appointment by the Court.

In any event, if the players don't accept the revised wage terms on offer, they will be sacked.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Speculation you say. No one has or will be released today. Meanwhile the Pars have to whistle for their cash.

...as do the Revenue, Glasgow Council, the local plumber etc etc...

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Anyone think that this delay of redundancies is because the Administrators are preparing the club for liquidation using the players as scapegoats ie refusal to accept pay cuts etc.

It's a strange scenario. Why are administrators looking for staff agreement on redundancies and pay cuts? They usually just say this, this and this are happening, like it or lump it.

[andrew70]

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That would be contrary to the terms of their appointment by the Court.

In any event, if the players don't accept the revised wage terms on offer, they will be sacked.

Thanks CWG makes a bit more sense to me now. I guess we will need to wait and see the outcome

[CropleyWasGod]

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It's a strange scenario. Why are administrators looking for staff agreement on redundancies and pay cuts? They usually just say this, this and this are happening, like it or lump it.

My take on it is that they have one eye on a potential sale, which IMO they should. The more top players they retain, the better the product to sell on, and the more is brought in for creditors.

It's a balancing act, though. They only have so much cash to spend. The longer they go on without any redundancies, the less they have to get them to the end of the season.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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My take on it is that they have one eye on a potential sale, which IMO they should. The more top players they retain, the better the product to sell on, and the more is brought in for creditors.

It's a balancing act, though. They only have so much cash to spend. The longer they go on without any redundancies, the less they have to get them to the end of the season.

You seem to be well up on all this financial stuff, CWG. Not my realm of expertise at all. Do you think they'll be liquidated or will they come out of administration?

[PaulSmith]

If the players are paid in advance and they have the wages from when admin was appointed then I can see why they haven't been emptied yet as there wouldn't be any cost saving in releasing players whom have already been paid!?

[CropleyWasGod]

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You seem to be well up on all this financial stuff, CWG. Not my realm of expertise at all. Do you think they'll be liquidated or will they come out of administration?

I'm one page ahead of you in the manual!!

So many people have asked me that recently. The short answer is fuctifano.....

There are so many variables in this that it's difficult to predict with any certainty. And, of course, as journalists dig more stories come out of the woodwork. For example, the latest story about the "unregistered contracts" might be enough to sink them, irrespective of any financial problems.

Crucial, though, are the following factors:-

1. the Big Tax Case. If that goes against them, they're done.

2. even if the BTC goes with them, would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £15m tax bill, and

3. would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £24m shortfall in its income over the next 4 years already?

4. irrespective of the BTC, what are the attitudes of the creditors to an arrangement for x pence in the £?

I come back to an earlier thought. If someone really wants to get involved with Rangers, they should buy Ibrox... which would help RFC to clear off the debts, allow them to stay at Ibrox, and provide a steady income for the investor.

[Cropley10]

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I'm one page ahead of you in the manual!!

So many people have asked me that recently. The short answer is fuctifano.....

There are so many variables in this that it's difficult to predict with any certainty. And, of course, as journalists dig more stories come out of the woodwork. For example, the latest story about the "unregistered contracts" might be enough to sink them, irrespective of any financial problems.

Crucial, though, are the following factors:-

1. the Big Tax Case. If that goes against them, they're done.

2. even if the BTC goes with them, would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £15m tax bill, and

3. would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £24m shortfall in its income over the next 4 years already?

4. irrespective of the BTC, what are the attitudes oif the creditors to a n arregment for xpence in the £?

I come back to an earlier thought. If someone really wants to get involved with Rangers, they should buy Ibrox... which would help RFC to clear off the debts, allow them to stay at Ibrox, and provide a steady income for the investor.

And who owns Ibrox?

[EuanH78]

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I'm one page ahead of you in the manual!!

So many people have asked me that recently. The short answer is fuctifano.....

There are so many variables in this that it's difficult to predict with any certainty. And, of course, as journalists dig more stories come out of the woodwork. For example, the latest story about the "unregistered contracts" might be enough to sink them, irrespective of any financial problems.

Crucial, though, are the following factors:-

1. the Big Tax Case. If that goes against them, they're done.

2. even if the BTC goes with them, would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £15m tax bill, and

3. would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £24m shortfall in its income over the next 4 years already?

4. irrespective of the BTC, what are the attitudes oif the creditors to a n arregment for xpence in the £?

I come back to an earlier thought. If someone really wants to get involved with Rangers, they should buy Ibrox... which would help RFC to clear off the debts, allow them to stay at Ibrox, and provide a steady income for the investor.

Someone like Ticketus maybe?

As you say though the football club have got to dodge two massive bullets, the big tax case and the player contracts invertigations and who is to say there wont be more.

My Dad and me were gassing about the whole thing and his opinion was (early on in this whole thing) 'it feels like the way watergate was' I'm too young to know exactly what that means but I think it's in the way little bits of info keep piling up, revealed day after day.

[JeMeSouviens]

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And who owns Ibrox?

RFC (in admin). Who holds a security over it? Craig Whyte, Ticketus, Rosemary the telephone operator ..... ?

[J-C]

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Naeb'dy. We wouldn't be allowed to play them, apparently.

Why??? If their contracts are ripped up do they not become free agents and able to sign for whoever they

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Someone like Ticketus maybe?

As you say though the football club have got to dodge two massive bullets, the big tax case and the player contracts invertigations and who is to say there wont be more.

My Dad and me were gassing about the whole thing and his opinion was (early on in this whole thing) 'it feels like the way watergate was' I'm too young to know exactly what that means but I think it's in the way little bits of info keep piling up, revealed day after day.

Your dad may have made a very apposite comparison. Watergate was before my time, too, but I recently read an excellent account of the Nixon presidency which went into minute detail of Watergate. Rangers it seems are also trying to hold back the tide; surviving day to day as the truth comes ever closer. As CWG has explained, they have enormous issues hanging over them which aren't going away. 'Follow the money', as Deepthroat said.

[stokesmessiah]

RFC chasing Whyte for monies owed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17232197

[WindyMiller]

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Not a patch on Sally Magnusson anyway.

Mother of five ,or no.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Speculation you say. No one has or will be released today. Meanwhile the Pars have to whistle for their cash.

You have to bear in mind that this is administration. There are legal requirements that must be taken care of which by far transcend any bias, perceived or otherwise. By the way, I'm with you, its obscene that the Pars aren't getting their dough, but its not Rangers getting away with murder.

If the administrators dont cut costs - which may be a universal pay cut rather than redundancies - they are being delinquent in their duties. Frankly, depending on when the salary pay dates fall due, there may be no advantage in making someone redundant today if theyve been paid up to the weekend. Just a thought.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Why??? If their contracts are ripped up do they not become free agents and able to sign for whoever they

There is another thread on this somewhere. The accepted wisdom is that players who weren't free agents at the start of the "closed" period can't play for anyone else.

Go and argue with them on that thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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RFC (in admin). Who holds a security over it? Craig Whyte, Ticketus, Rosemary the telephone operator ..... ?

RFCG, the holding company, have a floating charge over all of RFC's assets. However, that charge is for monies owed to them. As far as I can see, RFC don't owe RFCG anything, so the charge is useless.

[J-C]

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There is another thread on this somewhere. The accepted wisdom is that players who weren't free agents at the start of the "closed" period can't play for anyone else.

Go and argue with them on that thread

I had a wee look and realised you were right, I did post on the Neil Alexander thread quoting from wiki the fact.

Anyway who's arguing, just asking.


Getting the facts right are important

[CropleyWasGod]

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Your dad may have made a very apposite comparison. Watergate was before my time, too, but I recently read an excellent account of the Nixon presidency which went into minute detail of Watergate. Rangers it seems are also trying to hold back the tide; surviving day to day as the truth comes ever closer. As CWG has explained, they have enormous issues hanging over them which aren't going away. 'Follow the money', as Deepthroat said.

Deep Throat? Sally Magnusson?

This thread has it all......