Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[TornadoHibby]

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Rangers didn't actually get the £24m though, that's the thing. The holding company maybe did, but not the football club.

As far as I can make out, RFC will owe them the full whack......whatever that is!! But Wavetower owe RFC the same amount.

This tells you all you need to know about the Ticketus model..... http://www.principlefirst.co.uk/inve.../octopus-vcts/

Aye but only if the actual loan documentation between Ticketus and the borrower is in line with the illustration you have outlined.

I say that as I have no idea of what has actually happened with Ticketus and the ST loan(s) but you may have?!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Aye but only if the actual loan documentation between Ticketus and the borrower is in line with the illustration you have outlined.

I say that as I have no idea of what has actually happened with Ticketus and the ST loan(s) but you may have?!

The borrower is RFC.... that was made clear by the administrators today. CW has also confirmed it, although I wouldn't set great store on that.

However, the Herald reported that the cash was paid over by Ticketus to CW's solicitor before the takeover took place. If that is true, it might suggest a few things:-

1. Ticketus thought that they were dealing with RFC, but were actually dealing with (I forget the name) RFC Group??... CW's holding company, formerly Wavetower. This is where fraud may have taken place.

2. David Murray may have known about CW's plan to use that money to fund the takeover, and turned a blind eye to it just to get the deal done.

These bits are speculation, of course, but the key is finding where the Ticketus money went.

[cabbageandribs1875]

whyte murray

[SteveHFC]

Exclusive footage has emerged of Craig Whyte this evening.

[Spike Mandela]

another excellent blog post setting bare the facts of this case......

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/

[frazeHFC]

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Exclusive footage has emerged of Craig Whyte this evening.

That is quality.

[Easter Road X1]

Maybe the have paid Hearts, Dunfermline, Dundee United and the rest of the teams????

[Benny Brazil]

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another excellent blog post setting bare the facts of this case......

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/

Spike that is indeed an excellent blog and sums up my feelings about the Politicians involvement in this.
Who is the blogger? Is he a former Lawyer - he seems to know a lot of info on the law and the financial side of things.

[ancienthibby]

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Maybe the have paid Hearts, Dunfermline, Dundee United and the rest of the teams????

Heard Traynor on 5Live this morning saying that the Ticketus money was with CW's corporate lawyer which suggests a) Ticketus have not suffered a loss and b) the release of the monies would have conditions attached and these have not been met, hence the lawyers are barred from releasing them to ERFC.

This would be the cause of extreme cash pressures at RFC and would suggest that players and staff and creditors have only been paid at the expense of HMRC.

Throw the book at them

[Jim44]

I think I'll have to lie down as for the first time in my life I support the views of Jambo, Stuart Bathgate who. in an article in the Scotsman this morning, has a real go at Whyte, Salmond and Cameron on the non payment of tax issue. Mind you. it's a pity he doesn't pursue the financial frailties of his beloved HOMFC so vehemently.

[Smidge]

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Heard Traynor on 5Live this morning saying that the Ticketus money was with CW's corporate lawyer which suggests a) Ticketus have not suffered a loss and b) the release of the monies would have conditions attached and these have not been met, hence the lawyers are barred from releasing them to ERFC.

This would be the cause of extreme cash pressures at RFC and would suggest that players and staff and creditors have only been paid at the expense of HMRC.

Throw the book at them

Traynor is maybe getting confused. The Ticketus cash was with CW's corporate lawyers, as that's where it was originally transferred, but that doesn't mean it still is. Apart from anything else, if I was Ticketus, I wouldn't have left the cash there for so long, when they could probably just ask for it back!

A couple of other thoughts this morning:

- It's been suggested that the Ticketus deal could allegedly have been fraudulent because they thought they were dealing with the football club, but they were actually giving the money to the parent company. However, the name change from Wavetower to The Rangers FC Group Limited was not formalised until 12/05/11. If the Ticketus deal was done in April, as suggested, then the Group company didn't exist by that name. I think that rules out the old switcheroo trick.

- The administrators definitely said that the football club had the debt to Ticketus but hadn't seen the cash.

Roll on today's developments....

[Wembley67]

Looks like ***** attracts *****

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17072133

Milan Mandaric interested in buying crisis-hit club Rangers
Former Portsmouth and current Sheffield Wednesday chairman Milan Mandaric is interested in buying Rangers.

The administrators revealed on Thursday they had already heard from parties interested in the crisis-hit club.

And BBC Scotland has learned the Serbian - last week cleared of two counts of tax evasion - is one of those to have contacted Duff and Phelps.

Mandaric, who has also been in charge at Leicester, took over at Hillsborough 11 months ago .

[stokesmessiah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17072133

[Smidge]

Nice to see a journalist grow a pair of baws this morning:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...nged_1_2122590

Of course, one might ask, why it took so long?

[jonty]

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Spike that is indeed an excellent blog and sums up my feelings about the Politicians involvement in this.
Who is the blogger? Is he a former Lawyer - he seems to know a lot of info on the law and the financial side of things.

I must admit that I understand little about tax evasion, but his blog does make good reading.
Especially today, when it highlights the plight of another company, going into administration, losing 175 jobs and this was a profit making company.

Someone has also put together a corporate strcuture of CWs companies (not including the ones already wound up)
http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpr...-structure.pdf

[jonty]

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Nice to see a journalist grow a pair of baws this morning:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...nged_1_2122590

Of course, one might ask, why it took so long?

Aye - but it is Stuart Bathgate, so they'll be tiny mroon baws.

Nice touch to add a link to the e-petition

[ScottB]

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Looks like ***** attracts *****

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17072133

Milan Mandaric interested in buying crisis-hit club Rangers
Former Portsmouth and current Sheffield Wednesday chairman Milan Mandaric is interested in buying Rangers.

The administrators revealed on Thursday they had already heard from parties interested in the crisis-hit club.

And BBC Scotland has learned the Serbian - last week cleared of two counts of tax evasion - is one of those to have contacted Duff and Phelps.

Mandaric, who has also been in charge at Leicester, took over at Hillsborough 11 months ago .

You couldn't make it up!

Solution to having problems with the tax man... Get taken over by Mandaric! Jesus...

[Famous Fiver]

I've not read through this whole thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

I am no lawyer but I thought that the duty of the Administrators was to look after the interests of the creditors (the main one by far HMRC).

From all the media reports yesterday it appears that the administrators appear to be working in the best interests of Rangers Football Club.

Any lawyers out there who might like to comment? Can the administrators be asked to justify their apparent bias?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I've not read through this whole thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

I am no lawyer but I thought that the duty of the Administrators was to look after the interests of the creditors (the main one by far HMRC).

From all the media reports yesterday it appears that the administrators appear to be working in the best interests of Rangers Football Club.

Any lawyers out there who might like to comment? Can the administrators be asked to justify their apparent bias?

I wouldn't necessarily rely on the media reports to get the correct emphasis here. After all, these are mainly sports journalists who are talking to fitba supporters. Fans want to know "what's happening to my team?"

The administrators started off the press conference by emphasising that they were 1. Officers of the Court, and answerable to them. and 2. appointed to act in the best interests of the creditors and shareholders.

I see no bias as yet. However, there will be close scrutiny of this case. If any bias becomes apparent, they will have to account for it to the Court.

[ancienthibby]

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I must admit that I understand little about tax evasion, but his blog does make good reading.
Especially today, when it highlights the plight of another company, going into administration, losing 175 jobs and this was a profit making company.

Someone has also put together a corporate strcuture of CWs companies (not including the ones already wound up)
http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpr...-structure.pdf

Here's a wee story from 3 days ago about one of the Companies in the CW empire - Pritchard Stockbrokers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-17021584

The CW empire is unravelling by the day.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Here's a wee story from 3 days ago about one of the Companies in the CW empire - Pritchard Stockbrokers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-17021584

The CW empire is unravelling by the day.

Yup... now Sir David Murray has launched an action in the Court to get his £1 from Craig Whyte.

[SurferRosa]

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Exclusive footage has emerged of Craig Whyte this evening.

That had me in stitches....

[Sylar]

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Looks like ***** attracts *****

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17072133

Milan Mandaric interested in buying crisis-hit club Rangers
Former Portsmouth and current Sheffield Wednesday chairman Milan Mandaric is interested in buying Rangers.

The administrators revealed on Thursday they had already heard from parties interested in the crisis-hit club.

And BBC Scotland has learned the Serbian - last week cleared of two counts of tax evasion - is one of those to have contacted Duff and Phelps.

Mandaric, who has also been in charge at Leicester, took over at Hillsborough 11 months ago .

He's denying any interest according to SSN.

[stokesmessiah]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=211225

Have a read of this thread, they are pretty deluded over there.

"It never went through Rangers books according to the administrators. Could that give us a lifeline?"

[ScottB]

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http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=211225

Have a read of this thread, they are pretty deluded over there.

"It never went through Rangers books according to the administrators. Could that give us a lifeline?"

Well in theory, if that money was obtained fradulently, ie Ticketus leant it to Rangers the club, yet Whyte has kept it / spent it though his own company, presumably said company does owe Rangers the £24million ish then?

Of course, the club would then still owe all that back to Ticketus anyway, so it doesn't actually help them much, though it might give them a bit more short term breathing room if they got their hands on it (which they have utterly no chance of doing anyway).

[CropleyWasGod]

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Well in theory, if that money was obtained fradulently, ie Ticketus leant it to Rangers the club, yet Whyte has kept it / spent it though his own company, presumably said company does owe Rangers the £24million ish then?

Of course, the club would then still owe all that back to Ticketus anyway, so it doesn't actually help them much, though it might give them a bit more short term breathing room if they got their hands on it (which they have utterly no chance of doing anyway).

In that scenario, they would also owe CW £18M, with an alleged security... and we don't want that!!

[jonty]

http://www.octopusinvestments.com/pr...tml?newsId=363
Octopus/Ticketus press release.
nothing much in it.

[Twa Cairpets]

Some great reads over there (at RangersMedia). Apart from the need to disinfect my screen, it really does seem to be a home for the deluded and feeble-minded. When they go bump I can think or a ready made home for them.

Here's a few tasters:

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I can't see Whyte making off with it as he would be extradited to Bar-L.
I have no idea of his intentions, but as someone said earlier, he does appear to be making an unsellable club into a sellable one.
He's never said it would be easy, but we appear to be going in the right direction.

Yes, thats why you're in administration

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The only reason that we are here is that the HMRC has squeezed the life out of our club, because they cannot prove their case.
The EBT Scheme was legal, it is a paperwork issue.
But we have protected our assets and regardless of the HMRC outcome, we will be safe.
Do not believe the MHedia

Oh just paperwork. That's alright then.

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Why did Ticketus not make the cheque out to Rangers? Then it would show

Quick! Someone tell the administrators just to check who the cheque is made to! That'll help them find where that cash has gone. Maybe Ticketus can just show the stub

And they wonder why we laugh.

[Leithenhibby]

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http://www.octopusinvestments.com/pr...tml?newsId=363
Octopus/Ticketus press release.
nothing much in it.

No reading it then ...

[Twa Cairpets]

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http://www.octopusinvestments.com/pr...tml?newsId=363
Octopus/Ticketus press release.
nothing much in it.

Sorry Jonty, but that reads as spectacularly bad news for the Huns. Ticketus own the Assets of the ST's for 4 years. If CW has diddled them its (literally) criminal, if he hasn't there's a creditor with claim to those assets. I think.