Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Benny Brazil]

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Not listening but how then do they expect to pay the o/s tax issues?

I think they are hoping to come to a deal with HMRC - I think but not very clear.

[greenginger]

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Sounds to me that there is little for Rangers to be concerned about and they will be "Business As Normal" fairly soon.

Until the £ 50 million tax bill hits the floor.

[Bad Martini]

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Not listening but how then do they expect to pay the o/s tax issues?

Maybe they could use the next 4 seasons worth of season ticket money....if. they could only find that pesky few millions that seems to have magically disappeared ....shame that eh.

MON THE HMRC, RECEIVORS AND LIQUIDATORS YA BASS

[EuanH78]

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Until the £ 50 million tax bill hits the floor.

Got to admit to feeling a bit wrong footed (not in the religious sense for any hun *******s looking in) about that press conference really. Did I hear the administrators say the big tax case has not been considered just now as it's still an unknown quantity?

More questions than answers from that for me..

[CropleyWasGod]

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Got to admit to feeling a bit wrong footed (not in the religious sense for any hun *******s looking in) about that press conference really. Did I hear the administrators say the big tax case has not been considered just now as it's still an unknown quantity?

More questions than answers from that for me..

It can't be just now, but it will be as time goes on.

[Leithenhibby]

By all accounts, this is going to run, and run until we can't take no more ..

I remember when WM was trying to get hold of us, it seamed to go on for a lifetime

[ancienthibby]

If the ancient ears have not deceived me, I took two key points from what I watched:

First, Murray Park and Ipox are not in the name of RFC.

Second, the Ticketus monies went 'to another company'

Is this the quickest asset-stripping operation in history??

[alfie]

From STV twitter feed, doesn't sound like much news in there. Jellywitch monies have been paid, which presumably means there was an even bigger hole than was thought!

Edit - that is what I get for trusting their feed and not listening to the the video, but I'm at work

[CropleyWasGod]

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If the ancient ears have not deceived me, I took two key points from what I watched:

First, Murray Park and Ipox are not in the name of RFC.

Second, the Ticketus monies went 'to another company'

Is this the quickest asset-stripping operation in history??

I heard differently on the first point.

But the same as you on the second.

[jonty]

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By all accounts, this is going to run, and run until we can't take no more ..

I remember when WM was trying to get hold of us, it seamed to go on for a lifetime

Seems to me that Whyte is expecting a buyer for the club, if he expects the club to be out of administration next month.
Or maybe he expects it to be liquidated by then.

Either way - he'll be off the the south of france with the ticketus money.

[PaulSmith]

So could it be that ticketus are the 24m losers here

[Leithenhibby]

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From STV twitter feed, doesn't sound like much news in there. Jellywitch monies have been paid, which presumably means there was an even bigger hole than was thought!

Was there not some monies "Deferred"

[Caversham Green]

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If the ancient ears have not deceived me, I took two key points from what I watched:

First, Murray Park and Ipox are not in the name of RFC.

Second, the Ticketus monies went 'to another company'

Is this the quickest asset-stripping operation in history??

I think it's no to the first and yes to the second. They said there was a security on the properties in Whyte's favour and they have to verify its validity - that's run of the mill.

The Ticketus thing smells a bit though...

[hibs0666]

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If the ancient ears have not deceived me, I took two key points from what I watched:

First, Murray Park and Ipox are not in the name of RFC.

Second, the Ticketus monies went 'to another company'

Is this the quickest asset-stripping operation in history??

The Ticketus one is incredible - amongst the possible options here is that they have been scammed or subject to fraud.

[Smidge]

A few observations about what was said....

- The Ticketus money did not flow through the football club - presumably just the parent company, so it MUST have been used to finance the takeover. Need to think about how they could incur the liability without the benefit of the cash.

- There seems some dubiety over the security held. I'm not sure they said exactly who holds it - presumably a Craig Whyte-related company - but they did suggest that, if valid, Ibrox and Murray Park would be caught by it.

- It would be "optimistic" to suggest that they'll be out of administration by March's pay date.

- Seemed overly confident that Rangers would be able to exit administration eventually without being liquidated. I'm sure HMRC are not quiet so unequivocal.

- Sounds to me like there will be substantial redundancies next week - quite a lot of emphasis placed on playing this weekend's game.

- The way that Rangers' finances were managed was described as "unusual" more than once - particularly with reference to PAYE and VAT.

That's the highlights for me so far.

[SteveHFC]

Every SPL club should walk away from the SPL and set up their own league and leave the old firm to play in their own league.

[EuanH78]

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It can't be just now, but it will be as time goes on.

So, in effect are the administrators saying 'at the minute' this club is a going concern'? I could expect that to be honest from this 'snapshot in time' at least, but not with the scale of the uncertainty of the big tax case in the near future, unless a deal has been cut with HMRC, maybe?

[Leithenhibby]

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I think it's no to the first and yes to the second. They said there was a security on the properties in Whyte's favour and they have to verify its validity - that's run of the mill.

The Ticketus thing smells a bit though...

Everything about this sorry mess stinks ... ******g everything

[CropleyWasGod]

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A few observations about what was said....

- The Ticketus money did not flow through the football club - presumably just the parent company, so it MUST have been used to finance the takeover. Need to think about how they could incur the liability without the benefit of the cash.

- There seems some dubiety over the security held. I'm not sure they said exactly who holds it - presumably a Craig Whyte-related company - but they did suggest that, if valid, Ibrox and Murray Park would be caught by it.

- It would be "optimistic" to suggest that they'll be out of administration by March's pay date.

- Seemed overly confident that Rangers would be able to exit administration eventually without being liquidated. I'm sure HMRC are not quiet so unequivocal.

- Sounds to me like there will be substantial redundancies next week - quite a lot of emphasis placed on playing this weekend's game.

- The way that Rangers' finances were managed was described as "unusual" more than once - particularly with reference to PAYE and VAT.

That's the highlights for me so far.

On the security issue.... even if it is valid, I can't see its value. If, as seems increasingly likely, CW has taken the Ticketus cash, he is not a creditor.

[Smidge]

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I think it's no to the first and yes to the second. They said there was a security on the properties in Whyte's favour and they have to verify its validity - that's run of the mill.

The Ticketus thing smells a bit though...

That's what I heard....but if the securities are not lodged at Companies House, then their validity is definitely in question.

Still can't get my head around the Ticketus thing, unless it was a giant scam. Gut feeling is that I should made "allegedly" there

[CropleyWasGod]

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So, in effect are the administrators saying 'at the minute' this club is a going concern'? I could expect that to be honest from this 'snapshot in time' at least, but not with the scale of the uncertainty of the big tax case in the near future, unless a deal has been cut with HMRC, maybe?

It is, kind of, in a day-to-day sense.

However, the BTC has to be taken into account in the bigger picture.

[Smidge]

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On the security issue.... even if it is valid, I can't see its value. If, as seems increasingly likely, CW has taken the Ticketus cash, he is not a creditor.

Unless the Ticketus money went to a different company that took on the debt from Lloyds?

[CropleyWasGod]

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That's what I heard....but if the securities are not lodged at Companies House, then their validity is definitely in question.

Still can't get my head around the Ticketus thing, unless it was a giant scam. Gut feeling is that I should made "allegedly" there

Okay... here we go.

Ticketus advanced the money before CW took over. It was paid to CW's solicitors. That seems to be fairly common knowledge.

CW then paid off Lloyds TSB, £18m.

The Ticketus money didn't go to RFC, so..... putting on Columbo voice.... did it go to CW and, in effect, fund his purchase of the club??

[cabbageandribs1875]

one day there will be a statue of the little dwarf whyte outside hunbrox

[CropleyWasGod]

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Unless the Ticketus money went to a different company that took on the debt from Lloyds?

In that case, CW is owed £18m, and the "different company" owes RFC £24m.

[greenginger]

Duff and Phelps ? its a pity its not Duff and Gray, the sods would be in liquidation by now.

[Smidge]

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In that case, CW is owed £18m, and the "different company" owes RFC £24m.

I might go with that theory then.... if this "different company" is just a shell, then Ticketus probably deserved to be turned over as it would have been breathtakingly stupid

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Okay... here we go.

Ticketus advanced the money before CW took over. It was paid to CW's solicitors. That seems to be fairly common knowledge.

CW then paid off Lloyds TSB, £18m.

The Ticketus money didn't go to RFC, so..... putting on Columbo voice.... did it go to CW and, in effect, fund his purchase of the club??

That's what the ex-Hun chairman (Johnston) has been more or less accusing him of for the last few weeks.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

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A few observations about what was said....

- The Ticketus money did not flow through the football club - presumably just the parent company, so it MUST have been used to finance the takeover. Need to think about how they could incur the liability without the benefit of the cash.

- There seems some dubiety over the security held. I'm not sure they said exactly who holds it - presumably a Craig Whyte-related company - but they did suggest that, if valid, Ibrox and Murray Park would be caught by it.

- It would be "optimistic" to suggest that they'll be out of administration by March's pay date.

- Seemed overly confident that Rangers would be able to exit administration eventually without being liquidated. I'm sure HMRC are not quiet so unequivocal.

- Sounds to me like there will be substantial redundancies next week - quite a lot of emphasis placed on playing this weekend's game.

- The way that Rangers' finances were managed was described as "unusual" more than once - particularly with reference to PAYE and VAT.

That's the highlights for me so far.

Yip, they just decided not to pay it :green grin (allegedly)

While they might manage to extract themselves from Administration, who in their right minds would actually deal with the Huns again - particularly with the HMRC £49 mill hanging over them ??? In fact I'd go as far as say it would be negligent of any limited co or plc to give them any services or products without money up front in cash. Anyone giving them credit or unsecured funding would need their heads examined. So that basically means that they will no longer be buying players in the usual way - which normally involves staged payments plus contingencies. Now everyone in the Uk knows about their £49mill con of the public purse. I just don't see how they can trade.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I might go with that theory then.... if this "different company" is just a shell, then Ticketus probably deserved to be turned over as it would have been breathtakingly stupid

According to stuff I read recently, the money was sent to CW's solicitors, BEFORE the take-over, and sat in their client account.

I agree about Ticketus.... but would have thought that they would do a bit of due diligence.

Oh, wait..... people don't do that now