Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Ozyhibby]

Hibs share of tv money last year was £715000 rangers was £2.3m.
If tv money were to drop then that could be made up with a more equal share of a smaller pie.
With the Sunday lunchtime kick off, the crowds for old firm games are no longer much higher than standard league games.
I really don't think that Scottish football needs rangers as much as we need a return to sporting integrity.

[basehibby]

First post on this thread so allow me to open by saying YAAA - - HOO

It seems to me that Whyte has been expecting admin/liquidation all along and is counting on exactly what's being mooted - ie a debt free New Huns FC being welcomed back by the good ole SPL with penalties imposed which they will vigorously fight to minimise - all the while sticking two fingers up at the tax payer and any other creditors unlucky enough to find themselves stooges in their (grand) master plan.

Would love to see Scottish football call his bluff and send them packing to be re-elected to the third division in the event of liquidation. This afterall would be the naturally just way to deal with the situation - they have effectively been cheating all the other teams blind for years and in all fairness should reap the whirlwind they have sewn in the same way any other club would.

Of course though the other SPL clubs are scared that they will effectively be cutting off their noses to spite their faces - and it cannot be denied that all SPL clubs could expect a hit in revenue through loss of gate receipts as well as possible reductions in TV and sponsorship money.

But is the scale of this "catastrophy" as it is being painted being overblown? I believe it is.

For a start, we could fully expect a new Ranger's absence from the SPL to be temporary as they would most likely march through the leagues in short order and be back in the SPL in time for 2015 season. Also there are significant potential benefits to many clubs which should not be ignored.

Firstly, a number of SPL clubs would have an increased oportunity to qualify for European football at a higher level and for a number of years.

Also, the OF power duopoly which has been allowed to develop in top tier Scottish Football would be broken - providing an opportunity to change the rule book in a manner which is not perpetually warped for their benefit.

Lastly and certainly not least, there would be a great boost to the lower levels of Scottish Football - with each team in each division in succession enjoying a couple of home sellouts vs the huns along with possible TV income etc.

These factors, along with straightforward concepts of fairness which should be paramount in any sporting competition, should not be ignored in the big "what will we do with Rangers" equation - sadly, they more than likely will. Ach well, in the meantime I'll just enjoy the moment. So...

GIRFUY ya Greetin faced Hun Barstewards!!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=n-Eop3SDT1U

lol

[Dinkydoo]

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They have to be brought to book for their actions, or it really is the end game for Scottish football. If they get away with it, what is the point of carrying on anymore?

For once Blackpool I wholeheartedly agree with you.

What would be the point in carrying on?

What would be the point of any team operating financially within their means if certain clubs can cheat their way to title after title, whilst actually stealing from HMRC, just to have their slate wiped clean and be voted back into the league.

The tv deals would be revised if Rangers weren't in the SPL , so what, it's not as if there is a fair split of the money between clubs in the league anyway.

**** Rangers, let them die.

[bingo70]

It's not just tv money that would effect us, it'd be sponsorship money, player sales, attendences and hospitality would likely go down too.

That said, I actually agree, IF rangers reform as a new company then they have to start at the bottom

[Saorsa]

If the huns do go down the tubes and a new company is formed and allowed straight in tae the SPL that will be it for me. It will prove once and for all that the rest of the SPL exist for nae other reason than tae give some sort of legitimacy tae the OF league campaign and their qualification for Europe every year. It will prove beyond all doubt that Scottish fitba is rotten tae the core and run by crooks, shysters and OF sycophants and that everything and everybody else is irrelevant other than for the reason in bold above. If our board have any part in that decision tae let them back in it will be sheer hypocrisy on their part IMO. For years under their guidance we have paid hundreds of pounds a season while suffering dire fitba (some of the worst I've seen in my 30+ years of watching Hibs) while trying tae live within our means. If this club under whatever guise who have done exactly the opposite spending/stealing millions out of other peoples pockets buying cups, league titles and Euro qualification are allowed back in it will be an absolute disgrace and prove that cheats prosper. We could get relegated and they can stay in the top division? What's the point of trying tae do things the right way if cheats get away with doing it the wrong way and come out better off?


And before anybody says it, I'm not for a second suggesting we should have gone down the same road as the huns, merely pointing out what sheer hypocrisy IMO it would be on the part of our board if they were tae vote this lot back in, should the go defunct.

[Ozyhibby]

They should not just have to start at the bottom. They are offloading £100m of debt. They will no doubt look at starting at the bottom as a bargain. They would be back in the SPL by 2015.
There should also be a surcharge put on them of £5m per year for the next ten years to go towards youth development.
Even then they are still getting a bargain.

[PeeKay]

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We could get relegated and they can stay in the top division? What's the point of trying tae do things the right way if cheats get away with doing it the wrong way and come out better off?

That's it in a nutshell for me. If they get away with a slap on the wrist, then the pain that Hibs have sufferred in recent years to balance the books has been pointless. I have always felt it has perhaps been worth it to ensure that Hibs survive for future generations. But if they can do the exact opposite and still get to survive, then what has been the point?

[Disc O'Dave]

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That's it in a nutshell for me. If they get away with a slap on the wrist, then the pain that Hibs have sufferred in recent years to balance the books has been pointless. I have always felt it has perhaps been worth it to ensure that Hibs survive for future generations. But if they can do the exact opposite and still get to survive, then what has been the point?

Yup, if they get away with it, it's like a message to all the other clubs to just spend, spend, spend, dont bother paying taxes, and not to worry about the consequences. In fact, we could all orchestrate it to apply for administration at exactly the same time every 10 years, we all get docked 10 points, thus not affecting league placings, wipe the debt then start over.....

Just a shame der Hun have scuppererd any chance of the banks etc lending to SPL clubs ever again.

[greenginger]

League reconstruction is on its way.

Listen to what Regan, Doncaster ,the Sports Pundits are saying; A fresh look at the whole Scottish set-up/ An over whelming desire for change in the game/ crap about the necessity for the Huns to be included etc.

It will be a larger league next year ,maybe SPL 1 and SPL 2 but Rangers will be part of it.

What clubs must demand is fair distribution of of income, an end the the Old Firm veto, and the Huns starting in SPL 2 with suitable financial penalties in place to compensate their Football Victims (Yams excluded )

This is one chance to level the playing field that cannot be missed.

It is vital everyone on here lets our Board know our position and will not tolerate them rolling over like they did when they supported a ten team SPL 2 years ago.

[jodjam]

Could Sir David Murray suffer same fate as Fred Goodwin?

[Betty Boop]

Phone-in on Five Live now,'Should the taxman go easy on Rangers ?'. Margaret Curran seems to think so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/

[Smidge]

A few random thoughts this morning.....

Rangers have been forced into administration by HMRC on the basis of the £9m of VAT and PAYE withheld since Whyte took over in May 2011. Even if they managed to get a CVA agreed and exit administation while this is the only formal debt to £9m, on the basis that Whyte has managed to construct >£27m of other unsecured creditors - reducing HMRC <25% by value, then the £50-75m bill from the big tax case will simply force them back into administration once the judgement from the First Tier Tribunal is handed down.

However, I am fairly sure that c£50m has already been assessed and a demand issued so that it will be taken into account for a CVA. This is because this is the principal (quoted elsewhere as c£35m) of tax outstanding plus interest of c£15m. Assuming that the judgement from the FTT goes against Rangers - and I have read nothing to indicate that it's really going in their favour, apart from blue-tinged spin - then there is also the penalty to be determined. It is this latter part that may be excluded from the unsecured creditors in administration because it has definitely not yet been incurred as a liability.

I am alarmed by the noises coming from the mouths of politicians about the request for HMRC to look favourably on Rangers. Community impact, Scottish football, yadda yadda yadda. Therefore, I think that anyone truly alarmed by the possibility that a vast amount of taxpayers' money could be lost should begin lobbying their own elected representatives. I will be writing to my MP, MSP and one of the Lothians' list MSPs (I'm sure you could guess which one!), with copies going to the SPL, SFA and Hibs. It needs to be reasoned and articulate, not a partisan rant.

They cannot be allowed to get away with this. Either from the perspective of the public purse or from a football perspective. If nothing else, there needs to be a discussion about what Scottish football would look like without Rangers FC. I don't think there is any doubt that a version of the club will exist in years to come. At the very least, wealthy bluenoses will do an Airdrie Utd/Clydebank thing with another club, my guess being someone like East Stirling. However, it cannot be the case that any phoenix simply takes the place of the current RFC without a substantial shift in their position within the Scottish football establishment.

[Saorsa]

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League reconstruction is on its way.

Listen to what Regan, Doncaster ,the Sports Pundits are saying; A fresh look at the whole Scottish set-up/ An over whelming desire for change in the game/ crap about the necessity for the Huns to be included etc.

It will be a larger league next year ,maybe SPL 1 and SPL 2 but Rangers will be part of it.

What clubs must demand is fair distribution of of income, an end the the Old Firm veto, and the Huns starting in SPL 2 with suitable financial penalties in place to compensate their Football Victims (Yams excluded )

This is one chance to level the playing field that cannot be missed.

It is vital everyone on here lets our Board know our position and will not tolerate them rolling over like they did when they supported a ten team SPL 2 years ago.

Spot on.

The perfect opportunity could arise from this situation tae break the OF duopoly. What we need for once is for those outwith the OF tae stop being a bunch of self interested mealy mouthed baw bags fighting over scraps from the OF table. Sadly I dinnae see that happening.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Yep, let's get -

A 16/18 team league

Fair split of tv revenue

A reasonable wage/bonus cap

A look at introducing colt teams to the lower leagues

[Betty Boop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDZLI...layer_embedded

[Gatecrasher]

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Yep, let's get -

A 16/18 team league

Fair split of tv revenue

A reasonable wage/bonus cap

A look at introducing colt teams to the lower leagues

[Bighoose]

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Phone-in on Five Live now,'Should the taxman go easy on Rangers ?'. Margaret Curran seems to think so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/

Errr,.....No

I have no problems in them paying back their £50M+ to HMRC over a period e.g. £5M a year over 10 years.

However they are a going concern (at the moment) so there is no reason why they should be let off with not paying the full amount they owe.

[bighairyfaeleith]

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A few random thoughts this morning.....

Rangers have been forced into administration by HMRC on the basis of the £9m of VAT and PAYE withheld since Whyte took over in May 2011. Even if they managed to get a CVA agreed and exit administation while this is the only formal debt to £9m, on the basis that Whyte has managed to construct >£27m of other unsecured creditors - reducing HMRC <25% by value, then the £50-75m bill from the big tax case will simply force them back into administration once the judgement from the First Tier Tribunal is handed down.

However, I am fairly sure that c£50m has already been assessed and a demand issued so that it will be taken into account for a CVA. This is because this is the principal (quoted elsewhere as c£35m) of tax outstanding plus interest of c£15m. Assuming that the judgement from the FTT goes against Rangers - and I have read nothing to indicate that it's really going in their favour, apart from blue-tinged spin - then there is also the penalty to be determined. It is this latter part that may be excluded from the unsecured creditors in administration because it has definitely not yet been incurred as a liability.

I am alarmed by the noises coming from the mouths of politicians about the request for HMRC to look favourably on Rangers. Community impact, Scottish football, yadda yadda yadda. Therefore, I think that anyone truly alarmed by the possibility that a vast amount of taxpayers' money could be lost should begin lobbying their own elected representatives. I will be writing to my MP, MSP and one of the Lothians' list MSPs (I'm sure you could guess which one!), with copies going to the SPL, SFA and Hibs. It needs to be reasoned and articulate, not a partisan rant.

They cannot be allowed to get away with this. Either from the perspective of the public purse or from a football perspective. If nothing else, there needs to be a discussion about what Scottish football would look like without Rangers FC. I don't think there is any doubt that a version of the club will exist in years to come. At the very least, wealthy bluenoses will do an Airdrie Utd/Clydebank thing with another club, my guess being someone like East Stirling. However, it cannot be the case that any phoenix simply takes the place of the current RFC without a substantial shift in their position within the Scottish football establishment.

I agree, think I might type a wee letter myself this afternoon, don't want any politician misunderstanding how important it is that taxpayers money is not allowed to disappear into craig whytes pockets.

[carnoustiehibee]

Brian Moore speaking alot of sense on talksport

[s.a.m]

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Hibs share of tv money last year was £715000 rangers was £2.3m.
If tv money were to drop then that could be made up with a more equal share of a smaller pie.
With the Sunday lunchtime kick off, the crowds for old firm games are no longer much higher than standard league games.
I really don't think that Scottish football needs rangers as much as we need a return to sporting integrity.

Couldn't agree more. The SPL, and Scottish football, may not survive in its current form, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think perhaps it's going to take something seismic to force clubs and administrators to work towards a sustainable future for the game, as opposed to pursuing short-term vested interest. Perhaps this is it.

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Sorry if already posted but this is hilarious! (stolen from the sheep forum)

[jonty]

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Classic OF spelling problem.

But is this a threat or a promise? I'm confused are they going to fight the Taxman?

And whats with the british rail logo at the bottom?

another fail
http://twitter.com/#!/SkyScot/status...595712/photo/1

[HIBEETILLIDIE]

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Sorry if already posted but this is hilarious! (stolen from the sheep forum)

That is brilliant, can you tell me how do you copy that so it can be sent on via e-mail, there are a few Huns i would love to send it to.

[HIBEETILLIDIE]

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Hibs share of tv money last year was £715000 rangers was £2.3m.
If tv money were to drop then that could be made up with a more equal share of a smaller pie.
With the Sunday lunchtime kick off, the crowds for old firm games are no longer much higher than standard league games.
I really don't think that Scottish football needs rangers as much as we need a return to sporting integrity.

1800 extra season tickets, soon replaces the TV money, i'm sure we can muster a couple of thousand extra season ticket holders if it meant goodbye to that lot! I for one would definately return to buying a season ticket.

[silverhibee]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23749215/

[cabbageandribs1875]

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That is brilliant, can you tell me how do you copy that so it can be sent on via e-mail, there are a few Huns i would love to send it to.

just right click it and save it to your desktop, type the e-mail then add the attachment(from your desktop)

[HIBEETILLIDIE]

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just right click it and save it to your desktop, type the e-mail then add the attachment(from your desktop)

many thanks.

[Captain Trips]

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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23749215/

As much as I dislike Hearts that is well out of order, if that happens then there is no doubt we all should come together 100% to make this the worst case scenario for Rangers. Could Hearts not take him back?

[marinello59]

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1800 extra season tickets, soon replaces the TV money, i'm sure we can muster a couple of thousand extra season ticket holders if it meant goodbye to that lot! I for one would definately return to buying a season ticket.

With all those who said they wouldn't buy a season ticket unless Calderwood was sacked joining those who would only renew if the board backed the manager in the transfer window we should have about 15000 season ticket holders next year. With more likely to return if Rangers to exist we may need a bigger stadium. Those refusing to return until the board are sacked may find themselves locked out.

[Spike Mandela]

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As much as I dislike Hearts that is well out of order, if that happens then there is no doubt we all should come together 100% to make this the worst case scenario for Rangers. Could Hearts not take him back?

I rather think Vlad will be sitting back, taking notes and planning his next step.

The real losers in all of this will be HMRC and the small creditors, Vlad likes the sound of that.