question for anyone planning on voting labour or tory in the election

[AgentDaleCooper]

how much worse would these parties have to get to loose your support?

[Dashing Bob S]

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how much worse would these parties have to get to loose your support?

That is a brilliant question ADC, and one which everyone should be asking themselves. We've been made into passive drones by this 'Old Firm' of politics. As Rantic represent a sectarian status quo in football, so to do Labcon with their right-wing, pro-business, globalised consumer capitalism, wage-slavery and ghetto drug-ridden underclass consensus. I can't really see how deeper into the politics of fear, social neglect, and economic rip-offs of behalf of the super-rich, those hideous parties can possibly get, though to be fair to them, they always surprise me with their stunning ingenuity of these fronts.

Never supported the Tories at all, never supported Labour since Blair became PM.

[Leicester Fan]

A bit of a generalisation I know but;

The difference between right and left, labour/conservative is that the left want to run your life. You want someone to mind your kids then they have to approve them first. You want to employ someone then you must find out what religion they are, what sex they prefer to sleep with. Labour run 100s of campaigns telling you how to live our lives that most of us quite rightly completely ignore.

The Tories on the other hands don't want to know. Live your own life, if you succeed great if you fail that's your problem.It can be harsh but I'd rather be master of my own destiny.

[Jack]

Probably until the other parties show themselves to be a credible alternative.

[Beefster]

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how much worse would these parties have to get to loose your support?

Tell me what you mean by 'worse' and I might be able to answer? Worse than who/what?

[AgentDaleCooper]

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Probably until the other parties show themselves to be a credible alternative.

to use dashing bob's analogy, that's a bit like saying "i'll support rangers/celtic 'till the other teams show they can win the title" - it's self defeating.

[AgentDaleCooper]

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Tell me what you mean by 'worse' and I might be able to answer? Worse than who/what?

surely you would agree they have gone way down hill (some might disagree but i'd say since thatcher, but certainly since blair), if even only in comparison to themselves. the parties in the 50s/60s had

the two parties barely stand for anything anymore, all they're interested in is winning the election - they'll say ANYTHING to win votes. all presentation, no product. full of career politicians, noone with any real clout that's there because of any real political convictions.

[Beefster]

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surely you would agree they have gone way down hill (some might disagree but i'd say since thatcher, but certainly since blair), if even only in comparison to themselves. the parties in the 50s/60s had

the two parties barely stand for anything anymore, all they're interested in is winning the election - they'll say ANYTHING to win votes. all presentation, no product. full of career politicians, noone with any real clout that's there because of any real political convictions.

Both of them are talking about tax rises and public spending cuts so I'm not sure how that's saying anything to win power. You might kid yourself otherwise but all political parties say things in a bid to maximise their votes.

Labour are 'worse' than 1997/2001/2005 whereas the Tories are better than 1997/2001/2005. But yes, both parties are 'worse' than they have been at some point in the past.

[J-C]

I've voted SNP since I became 18, so the question doesn't really concern me. I've seen both parties rule for many years now and they both seem incapable of bringing to the country what they actually say in their manifesto's.

[Jack]

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to use dashing bob's analogy, that's a bit like saying "i'll support rangers/celtic 'till the other teams show they can win the title" - it's self defeating.

TBH I dont think so. Football is not the same as politics at all. Goal!

[Hainan Hibs]

A large section of Labour supporters in Scotland would vote for a chimp wearing a red Labour badge. The old "well my dad voted for them and his dad voted for them" mentality.

Labour and Conservatives are pretty much the same now. They will throw away any values they have to gain a few more middle England votes.

[Big Ed]

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A bit of a generalisation I know but;

The difference between right and left, labour/conservative is that the left want to run your life. You want someone to mind your kids then they have to approve them first. You want to employ someone then you must find out what religion they are, what sex they prefer to sleep with. Labour run 100s of campaigns telling you how to live our lives that most of us quite rightly completely ignore.

The Tories on the other hands don't want to know. Live your own life, if you succeed great if you fail that's your problem.It can be harsh but I'd rather be master of my own destiny.

You are right. It is a bit of a generalisation.
I won’t be voting for either Labour or Conservative at the next election but the way you are talking, I must be off my head for not marking an ‘X’ next to the Tory candidate.
Don’t the Tories advocate new legislation? Because if they really didn’t give a **** how you lived your life, then there would be no need to meddle in it with pesky laws.

[lucky]

still will be voting Labour. Even though candidate is an arse and will be lobby for for the whips. I just don't want independence. wee Eck has done nothing since he came into power in Edinburgh. The choice is straight forward Labour or the Tories. Cant trust SNP as they were the ones who voted to bring down the Government, which gave us the Thatcher years. For those too young to remember wait and see what the Tories do to our communities and public services

[steakbake]

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still will be voting Labour. Even though candidate is an arse and will be lobby for for the whips. I just don't want independence. wee Eck has done nothing since he came into power in Edinburgh. The choice is straight forward Labour or the Tories. Cant trust SNP as they were the ones who voted to bring down the Government, which gave us the Thatcher years. For those too young to remember wait and see what the Tories do to our communities and public services

That old Labour party chestnut.

So the SNP brought down Callahan and I suppose it was their fault that Labour got beaten at the General Election? Why was there a no confidence vote in the first place? Because Labour cheated and gerrymandered the home rule referendum, by losing their nerve. 40% was the figure which brought down Labour. There has never been a Labour government elected by a full 40% of the british electorate, yet they applied those rules to the referendum for the scottish assembly. Treachery repaid, I think I would see it as. I also remember that the Liberals pulled out of the coalition with Labour the year before. So are the Liberals not also to "blame" for Thatcher?

Losing the election in 79 was nothing at all to do with the fact that Labour had run out of ideas, had pissed the country's money up the wall and fallen out with the unions that normally support them to such a point that they were holding the government to ransome and the winter of discontent? No.. of course it was the SNP who delivered Thatcher.

Just like Labour now, they'll blame anything on everyone else (global financial crisis, anyone) apart from themselves.

The folklore that some people live with...

[Hainan Hibs]

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still will be voting Labour. Even though candidate is an arse and will be lobby for for the whips. I just don't want independence. wee Eck has done nothing since he came into power in Edinburgh. The choice is straight forward Labour or the Tories. Cant trust SNP as they were the ones who voted to bring down the Government, which gave us the Thatcher years. For those too young to remember wait and see what the Tories do to our communities and public services

Sorry but that's not right. The SNP may have not delivered on things such as class sizes but they have delivered many things. One thing big enough for me was the scrapping of the graduate endowment meaning I won't have a 2 grand charge at the end of my degree.

[Leicester Fan]

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You are right. It is a bit of a generalisation.
I won’t be voting for either Labour or Conservative at the next election but the way you are talking, I must be off my head for not marking an ‘X’ next to the Tory candidate.

Not really. Some people expect the govt to run their life from cradle to grave. If that's what you believe then you should vote Labour. It's just that trust my opinion about my life more than some faceless bureacrat.

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Don’t the Tories advocate new legislation? Because if they really didn’t give a **** how you lived your life, then there would be no need to meddle in it with pesky laws.

Obviously some new laws are always needed to cope with changing circumstances but Labour has introduced thousands of new laws when in most cases all that was needed was enforce existing laws.

[Big Ed]

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Not really. Some people expect the govt to run their life from cradle to grave. If that's what you believe then you should vote Labour. It's just that trust my opinion about my life more than some faceless bureacrat.



Obviously some new laws are always needed to cope with changing circumstances but Labour has introduced thousands of new laws when in most cases all that was needed was enforce existing laws.

Your first reply is a bit more considered than your original point, but I often think that expressions like "faceless bureacrat" are simplistic ways of trying to demonise people whose job it is to uphold public functions. The impression being that they get a kick out of f***ing over ordinary people by being given a position of power. By and large I think that's pretty unfair.
Your second point regarding the need to enforce existing laws - I couldn't agree more.

[Bookkeeper]

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still will be voting Labour. Even though candidate is an arse and will be lobby for for the whips. I just don't want independence. wee Eck has done nothing since he came into power in Edinburgh. The choice is straight forward Labour or the Tories. Cant trust SNP as they were the ones who voted to bring down the Government, which gave us the Thatcher years. For those too young to remember wait and see what the Tories do to our communities and public services

Surely a lighter touch by government is a good thing. As someone said above, labour has brought in too many new laws with all their associated costs to implement.

Never have and probably never will vote for the "rantic" of politics.

[Leicester Fan]

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Your first reply is a bit more considered than your original point, but I often think that expressions like "faceless bureacrat" are simplistic ways of trying to demonise people whose job it is to uphold public functions. The impression being that they get a kick out of f***ing over ordinary people by being given a position of power. By and large I think that's pretty unfair.

That's not what I said and I'm not sure how you could read that into my answer.
I don't doubt that a lot of these bureacrats mean well .Just like I'm sure most labour politicians think they are doing the right thing. It's just that I think their solutions are wrong and tend to make things worse.

[hibeenicol]

Will still be voting labour. Any vote for snp is basiclly a vote for the tories.
And I don't want them in.

[Woody1985]

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Will still be voting labour. Any vote for snp is basiclly a vote for the tories.
And I don't want them in.

This sums up everything that is wrong with politics in this country for me.

Lets vote for the ones that are slightly less **** than the other.

Voting should be about voting for the people who will drive the country forward and make it a better place, however, that party may not exist.

[Ed De Gramo]

I usually just vote for the hot lassie party

[SHODAN]

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A bit of a generalisation I know but;

The difference between right and left, labour/conservative is that the left want to run your life. You want someone to mind your kids then they have to approve them first. You want to employ someone then you must find out what religion they are, what sex they prefer to sleep with. Labour run 100s of campaigns telling you how to live our lives that most of us quite rightly completely ignore.

The Tories on the other hands don't want to know. Live your own life, if you succeed great if you fail that's your problem.It can be harsh but I'd rather be master of my own destiny.

Bollocks.

Moving on, I'll be voting Labour. Lesser of two evils and nationalism is crazy, not from a patriotic but economic stance.

[allmodcons]

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Will still be voting labour. Any vote for snp is basiclly a vote for the tories.
And I don't want them in.

Yet another old Labour Party chestnut. What's your evidence for such a ridiculous statement ?

[Pete]

I just wish socialism hadn't ****ed itself up because it's resulted in no meaningful movement or party worth anything any more.

The gap between the rich and poor is widening by the year, pensioners are freezing to death, The Inland revenue is hammering the working class because they're skint, there's a 30 year waiting list for a council house and we're doing nothing about it but voting for Rangers or Celtic...who are basically two cheeks of the same erse.

We've become a nation of pathetic, mindless sheep.

[allmodcons]

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Bollocks.

Moving on, I'll be voting Labour. Lesser of two evils and nationalism is crazy, not from a patriotic but economic stance.

What makes you think the Scots couldn't run their own economy in a successful manner ?

Perhaps we're too stupid ?

Maybe we need our dominant neighbour to tell us what to do ?

There is good economic case to be made for Scotland going it alone.

You don't have to believe all the soundbites from Brown and Murphy about the big 'scary' fiscal deficit we'd have as an Independent state.

Soundbites, incidentally, made all the more laughable, by the fact that Brown has presided over the biggest UK fiscal debt of all time.

Brilliant economics eh!!!

[heretoday]

There's no one left to vote for. I quite like Vince Cable but Clegg is uninspiring.

I might vote SNP because of their anti-war stance and general social democratic type policies.

I don't agree with Scottish Independence though!

Que faire, alors?

[allmodcons]

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I just wish socialism hadn't ****ed itself up because it's resulted in no meaningful movement or party worth anything any more.

The gap between the rich and poor is widening by the year, pensioners are freezing to death, The Inland revenue is hammering the working class because they're skint, there's a 30 year waiting list for a council house and we're doing nothing about it but voting for Rangers or Celtic...who are basically two cheeks of the same erse.

We've become a nation of pathetic, mindless sheep.

Totally. Blair moved New Labour so far to the right in order to obtain power there's nothing to differentiate the Labour Party from the Tories anymore.

[Woody1985]

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What makes you think the Scots couldn't run their own economy in a successful manner ?

Perhaps we're too stupid ?

Maybe we need our dominant neighbour to tell us what to do ?

There is good economic case to be made for Scotland going it alone.

You don't have to believe all the soundbites from Brown and Murphy about the big 'scary' fiscal deficit we'd have as an Independent state.

Soundbites, incidentally, made all the more laughable, by the fact that Brown has presided over the biggest UK fiscal debt of all time.

Brilliant economics eh!!!

Where is this case?

I'd like to see it.

[hibeenicol]

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Yet another old Labour Party chestnut. What's your evidence for such a ridiculous statement ?

Well if in my constituency everyone votes SNP and labour lose there seat, there is no danger Snp are going to get into power so basiclly labour have lost a seat when the tories havnae bringing it very close between the tories and labour. No?