Trams

[Bad Martini]

Another little present from oor former governement who even now, after being booted out, VOTED OUT and democratically told to "get tae" are STILL causing us aggro.

Political point? Too ****ing right....

Waste of time, money, energy and too much aggro to boot.

Total piss up of the taxpayers money.

ENDOF

[stu in nottingham]

I can't really comment specifically on Edinburgh's proposed service but what I can say is that most of the opinions being voiced on this thread I heard time and again by people here in Nottingham (myself included) before our system was built.

Now people love them.

Yes, it was a pain while the roads were being dug up. The route is fairly restricted too (I rarely find a use for it personally). Everyone said it would be a waste of money, dangerous, interfere with traffic etc.

The result is full trams all day with standing room only in busy periods and TWO proposed brand new routes. People like them because they're reasonably cheap, efficient, reliable, regular and comfortable. Another factor is that people like them because they're safe. Having a conductor helps in this respect.

Friends of mine have even had good nights doing the 'tram pub crawl' hopping on and off on a night out.

http://www.thetram.net/

Have a trip on the Nottingham Tram. It does 500mph!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/feat..._journey.shtml

[PiemanP]

total madness if you ask me a complete waste of money and a whole load of disruption being caused. the routes the trams are going to use are ones that buses run down every 5 minutes FFS so what is the point. how about people in the outskirts of edinburgh like muirhouse, oxgangs, sighthill who could actually benefit from some money being spent on extended bus routes or even some sort of train service im sure would be a lot more cost effective and benefiscial.

[Benny Brazil]

I fail to see the need for the trams in Edinburgh.
Part of the problem as I see it the numbers of cars coming in from out of town, how are the trams going to reduce this when they only run to certain parts of Edinburgh?
The bus service is good if you live in Edinburgh, for those of us on the outskirts (who still have to pay Edin Council Tax) the service provided is poor. In Sth Queensferry we have one bus service into and out of Edinburgh provided by First buses, the only other options for me to get in to town is either the car or a train. The train service (also provided by the First group) is piss poor, overcrowded and expensive. So the only viable option is to drive.
For people coming from Fife etc the train is again the only option apart from the car.
The park and ride scheme looks to be a good service so why not try to encourage people to use this more.
There is also the issue of providing better transport to Edin airport which is currently non existent.
The council / Government had an opportunity to create a viable and worthy transport system for Edinburgh but instead came up with the Trams.

[BoozyLynne]

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total madness if you ask me a complete waste of money and a whole load of disruption being caused. the routes the trams are going to use are ones that buses run down every 5 minutes FFS so what is the point. how about people in the outskirts of edinburgh like muirhouse, oxgangs, sighthill who could actually benefit from some money being spent on extended bus routes or even some sort of train service im sure would be a lot more cost effective and benefiscial.

Hear hear!!

One of my main gripes about the trams is that they do absolutely NOTHING for people who live on the south side of the city.

[Sergio sledge]

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I can't really comment specifically on Edinburgh's proposed service but what I can say is that most of the opinions being voiced on this thread I heard time and again by people here in Nottingham (myself included) before our system was built.

Now people love them.

Yes, it was a pain while the roads were being dug up. The route is fairly restricted too (I rarely find a use for it personally). Everyone said it would be a waste of money, dangerous, interfere with traffic etc.

The result is full trams all day with standing room only in busy periods and TWO proposed brand new routes. People like them because they're reasonably cheap, efficient, reliable, regular and comfortable. Another factor is that people like them because they're safe. Having a conductor helps in this respect.

Friends of mine have even had good nights doing the 'tram pub crawl' hopping on and off on a night out.

http://www.thetram.net/

Have a trip on the Nottingham Tram. It does 500mph!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/feat..._journey.shtml

Was going to add the same thing. The trams do work in Nottingham, despite much opposition before they were completed. The thing I liked most about them was that they were virtually silent, meaning you could hold a conversation on them without shouting over the din of the buses. They also cut my journey time out to my mates houses by half. They may cause major disruption at the moment in Edinburgh, but I'm almost certain they will be well used and appreciated once they are fully up and running. My only dissapointment about the tram system in Nottingham was that I left before they completed the route out to the University.

[Zeberdee]

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Another little present from oor former governement who even now, after being booted out, VOTED OUT and democratically told to "get tae" are STILL causing us aggro.

Political point? Too ****ing right....

Waste of time, money, energy and too much aggro to boot.

Total piss up of the taxpayers money.

ENDOF

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/6243158.stm

Its called democracy and the final decision was taken when the snp were in power. Unfortunately they were wrong so the other 3 parties voted for its approval.

[Bad Martini]

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/6243158.stm

Its called democracy and the final decision was taken when the snp were in power. Unfortunately they were wrong so the other 3 parties voted for its approval.

Zeberdee ... I am more than a little confused.

The SNP opposed the idea. Most people on here OPPOSE the idea. The ****ing legacy of the labour government is these Godforsaken trams (Which will effectively run the same route as the most COMMON/REGULAR/EVERY 23 SECONDS bus service) ... this is good how?

I do understand the concepts of democracy...democracy is why the SNP are in power and Labour are stuck with their collective erses oot the windae.

Unfortunately, the by product of democracy is the trams which we are all stuck with. Finally, if yer interested in democracy, if we had a wee vote on here, you would find most people would be busy voting against the trams....democracy? I think not......

Just for info, and from the article YOU quoted to me:
"Mr Swinney told BBC Scotland: "We didn't want the trams project but parliament has voted for it and the opposition has put a financial constraint on it and I will vigorously apply that financial constraint."

...JUST to be clear, the SNP D I D N O T want the trams, the people (or the people on here, folk I have spoken to and others all over) are quoted as NOT wanting the trams.....Im sure there is someone out there who'll be mad for the trams.....ye can count me richt oot tho.

I can think of FAR better ways of spending all that loot, as I see folk waiting 4 months on operations (folk I KNOW), folk waiting months on the dentist, folk paying thru the nose for prescriptions etc etc.....money could have been spent there. Nope. Lets blow the ****ing lot on some stupid trams.

[Zeberdee]

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Zeberdee ... I am more than a little confused.

I can tell. jokin.

The major benifit of replacing the buses will be the improvement in the air in the city. think of all the carcnagenic diesel fumes that will be reduced. The problem was that if the city continues to grow at its current rate, there simply wouldnt be enough buses on our already congested roads. Its also been proven that many drivers who would not use buses, like myself, would be willing to use trams.

Trams offer a whole new transport choice to the people of Edinburgh; one that is proven to appeal to car users where other public transport has failed. Trams are reliable, fast and can carry many passengers; they are also electrically powered producing almost no on-street pollution, which helps to reduce the environmental impact of vehicle emissions.


Also:

http://tramfacts.wordpress.com/all-posts/

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet...tive_to_trams_

Anyway enough of this banter for the day, im finished work and in turn finished wasting even more tax payers money as some of you would probably suggest.

[Iain G]

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I can tell. jokin.

The major benifit of replacing the buses will be the improvement in the air in the city. think of all the carcnagenic diesel fumes that will be reduced. The problem was that if the city continues to grow at its current rate, there simply wouldnt be enough buses on our already congested roads. Its also been proven that many drivers who would not use buses, like myself, would be willing to use trams.

Trams offer a whole new transport choice to the people of Edinburgh; one that is proven to appeal to car users where other public transport has failed. Trams are reliable, fast and can carry many passengers; they are also electrically powered producing almost no on-street pollution, which helps to reduce the environmental impact of vehicle emissions.


Also:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet...tive_to_trams_

Anyway enough of this banter for the day, im finished work and in turn finished wasting even more tax payers money as some of you would probably suggest.

The issue here is not the trams themselves, I think they will be fairly well used by folks, its that they are not replacing the buses, LRT won't roll over and give up all the cash they make servicing the same route as the tramlines, so instead of removing congestion we are adding another layer and mode of transport to an already over subscribed route in and out of town.

Its small time thinking that has got us the trams, typical of Scotland really, no big picture! We shold be getting people back off the road network by looking at proper local rail links, trying to shoehorn another mode of transport onto the streets of Edinburgh is just folly IMHO. I like the trams I have used in other cities, but this scheme for Edinburgh does nothing to alleviate the issues of congestion and busy roads unless you get rid of the buses on these routes, which won't happen...

[Zeberdee]

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The issue here is not the trams themselves, I think they will be fairly well used by folks, its that they are not replacing the buses, LRT won't roll over and give up all the cash they make servicing the same route as the tramlines, so instead of removing congestion we are adding another layer and mode of transport to an already over subscribed route in and out of town.

Its small time thinking that has got us the trams, typical of Scotland really, no big picture! We shold be getting people back off the road network by looking at proper local rail links, trying to shoehorn another mode of transport onto the streets of Edinburgh is just folly IMHO. I like the trams I have used in other cities, but this scheme for Edinburgh does nothing to alleviate the issues of congestion and busy roads unless you get rid of the buses on these routes, which won't happen...

Rail links would have less stops, cause much more congestions, and cost much much much more to have put inplace.

[Iain G]

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Rail links would have less stops, cause much more congestions, and cost much much much more to have put inplace.

How the hell would rail links cause more congestion??? The suburban lines are still in place for a majority of Edinburgh, been shown it could be up and running for much less than the buses on rails that we are getting which is just adding to volumes of vehicles on the roads.

Trams will slow traffic down further, create bottlenecks everywhere they have to stop in the middle of roads, probably lead to more pedestrians getting injured as to having to cross busy roads, ruin the aesthetics of parts of the town as these electrical wires will be everywhere...

Cost is not the issue, the issue is improving transportation options for the people of Edinburgh and to get folks off the overcrowded key road routes. Trams will not do this, trains could if those idiots in parliament/city chamabers had actually sat down and thought this through instead of using the trams as a political football.

[davym7062]

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The issue here is not the trams themselves, I think they will be fairly well used by folks, its that they are not replacing the buses, LRT won't roll over and give up all the cash they make servicing the same route as the tramlines, so instead of removing congestion we are adding another layer and mode of transport to an already over subscribed route in and out of town.

Its small time thinking that has got us the trams, typical of Scotland really, no big picture! We shold be getting people back off the road network by looking at proper local rail links, trying to shoehorn another mode of transport onto the streets of Edinburgh is just folly IMHO. I like the trams I have used in other cities, but this scheme for Edinburgh does nothing to alleviate the issues of congestion and busy roads unless you get rid of the buses on these routes, which won't happen...

the trams and lothian buses will be part of the same company, if you look at the pictures of the tram u'll see it's in lothian colours. not maroon

the bus service that goes through the tram route will be scaled down

[Arch Stanton]

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the trams and lothian buses will be part of the same company, if you look at the pictures of the tram u'll see it's in lothian colours. not maroon

the bus service that goes through the tram route will be scaled down

While there MAY be fewer LRT buses on the 22 route (and I doubt it) there certainly won't be fewer First buses on that route.

Overall there won't be any additional buses sitting in garages as LRT and First will still be competing for market share in Edinburgh (bus deregulation being another hideous legacy from Thatcher - courtesy of another thread) and buses running empty are part and parcel of that.

[Sergio sledge]

Just as an extra to my post above, I can tell most folk on here are against them, but the plan is to have a park and ride out at Ingleston, (as far as I can see) and connect eventually to the airport. This would mean lots of the people out that side of town could park there and then get the tram into town, (along the railway line mainly) which would greatly reduce the traffic into town. Having seen the Queensferry road fairly regularly during rush hour, there are a lot of people out that way who could use this facility.

[Arch Stanton]

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I can tell. jokin.

The major benifit of replacing the buses will be the improvement in the air in the city. think of all the carcnagenic diesel fumes that will be reduced. The problem was that if the city continues to grow at its current rate, there simply wouldnt be enough buses on our already congested roads. Its also been proven that many drivers who would not use buses, like myself, would be willing to use trams.

Trams offer a whole new transport choice to the people of Edinburgh; one that is proven to appeal to car users where other public transport has failed. Trams are reliable, fast and can carry many passengers; they are also electrically powered producing almost no on-street pollution, which helps to reduce the environmental impact of vehicle emissions.


Also:

http://tramfacts.wordpress.com/all-posts/

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet...tive_to_trams_

Anyway enough of this banter for the day, im finished work and in turn finished wasting even more tax payers money as some of you would probably suggest.

The points you make rather raises something I have never seen addressed - exactly why we are getting trams. If the requirement was to reduce carbon emissions then trams would not be a cost effective solution for Edinburgh. Changing all the buses in Edinburgh to LPG would be a solution but changing one of our commuter routes to trams isn't.

If the requirement was to give Edinburgh commuters more choice then they really need a change to the bus system which would mean a lot more journeys could be made without changing buses. Also, the fact that just about all bus routes go through Princes Street is something which really needs to be addressed if we are going to improve public transport in Edinburgh.

However, the main selling point of trams is that they are an RTS solution (Rapid Transit System) - getting commuters into town quickly. Now, while trams will be very appealing to those relatively few citizens who will be able to make use of them, they certainly wont be travelling any faster than people on buses.

The biggest fallacy though is that there will be fewer buses - even if fewer people travel on buses it does not follow that there will be fewer buses at all. The vast majority of buses clogging Princes Street are less than a quarter full. The fact is an increase in commuters will not mean more buses at all - the existing ones would just be fuller!