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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel 1875 View Post
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    Was this change emailed to all members? The last email I received before yesterday’s update was in November relating to the appointment of a new board member.

    Seems like a fairly substantial change after a vote was cast of all members around where funds would be directed at the end of September?

    The theme of this thread, suggesting 100% of donations be handed to the club during the shutdown, would also suggest quite a few people are unaware of this change?
    25th January

    Can I first of all wish all our Members and contributors a very Happy New Year.

    As you are aware Hibernian Supporters currently holds 15.3% of the shares in Hibernian. Late last year members elected to have their donations distributed in accordance with their particular wishes. As a result, from 1st October last year 65% of donations received by us have been passed to the Club to be used by the Football Dept. The remaining 35% of donations have been retained in anticipation of buying further shares.

    I am now writing to you today to confirm that we have received a letter from the Club regarding the potential purchase of Shares. They have advised that “the Board is content with the balance of share ownership and will not approve the further sale or purchase of shares’’. This means that we are unable to acquire any shares from the Club or existing shareholders. It is important that this information is passed on quickly as we are aware that many Members/donators are contributing on the basis that their money will be used to buy shares. Members who currently donate to us should understand that in future we will be donating all future funds received to the Club for use by the football Dept.

    The Club have passed on their thanks for all your generosity to date and have expressed a “desire to continue to work productively and proactively with HSL for the future progress and success of our Club”.

    I confirm that we will seek to work with the Club to explore any and all other avenues to see how Hibernian Supporters can continue to financially support the Club.
    It's good hibs people running HSL, but this is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. If there are no shares, and there is a still a will to donate money to Hibs, then it should be done through an entirely separate body set up for this purpose.


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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    25th January



    It's good hibs people running HSL, but this is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. If there are no shares, and there is a still a will to donate money to Hibs, then it should be done through an entirely separate body set up for this purpose.
    Thanks for sharing, don’t seem to have received that.

    I always thought the share fund was in place in the event a further share issue was announced or for if/when Ron G moves on. Seems remiss to have taken that decision without the chance to challenge/vote on it.

  4. #63
    @hibs.net private member offshorehibby's Avatar
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    Email dated 11th October.

    Recent Poll
    Following the result of the recent poll with our existing donators, funds received from them from 1st October 2019 will be distributed as follows:

    - 65% will be passed to the Club for the Football Dept.
    - 35% will be retained for future share purchases as and when they become available.

    Supporters joining from 1st October onwards will see 100% of their donation going to the Club.
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  5. #64
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel 1875 View Post
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    The issue with the nominee shareholder(s), who own roughly 10% of the club, appears to be very few people actually know who they are, which means in the event a big decision was being made that required 75% of shareholders approval, the nominee shareholder(s) couldn’t necessarily be relied upon to vote in the wider interest of the support.

    If the person/people who own the rest of the shares fancied cashing in if an approach was made by someone with bad intentions for Hibs then, bluntly speaking, the support would have no real say on the matter as things currently stand.
    Yes indeed, it would be very interesting to find out who these larger shareholders are.

    There are 20 entries on the shareholders list shown as either 'investments' or 'nominees' ... they hold 11,857,000 shares. That's not unusual in itself, I would imagine many listed companies have shares owned by such bodies ... but with few exceptions they all have names referring local geography, which suggests at least some of them were only set up to buy Hibs shares ... after all, what normal investment vehicle would be daft enough to buy shares in a Scottish football club expecting a return on them for its anonymous members?

    Having said that, there's the concern ... the only way a big return could be possible is if for example the land ER is built on was desired for construction and the owner received an offer he could't or didn't want to, refuse .... that would put anybody owning those 11,857,000 shares in a good position if money is their only concern.

    I exempt 'North Castle Street' from this theory who amusingly own 10 shares

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Yes indeed, it would be very interesting to find out who these larger shareholders are.

    There are 20 entries on the shareholders list shown as either 'investments' or 'nominees' ... they hold 11,857,000 shares. That's not unusual in itself, I would imagine many listed companies have shares owned by such bodies ... but with few exceptions they all have names referring local geography, which suggests at least some of them were only set up to buy Hibs shares ... after all, what normal investment vehicle would be daft enough to buy shares in a Scottish football club expecting a return on them for its anonymous members?

    Having said that, there's the concern ... the only way a big return could be possible is if for example the land ER is built on was desired for construction and the owner received an offer he could't or didn't want to, refuse .... that would put anybody owning those 11,857,000 shares in a good position if money is their only concern.

    I exempt 'North Castle Street' from this theory who amusingly own 10 shares
    I know one nominee who is a Hibby through and through who went for nominee route because he didn't want too many to know he was spending even more money on Hibs.

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  7. #66
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonhibby View Post
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    I know one nominee who is a Hibby through and through who went for nominee route because he didn't want too many to know he was spending even more money on Hibs.

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    I'm sure that's the case with a few of them mate ... but not all 20 I would imagine. There's a few with over a million shares and you don't spend that amount out of sentimentality, or if you did surely you would want folk to know about it.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    25th January



    It's good hibs people running HSL, but this is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. If there are no shares, and there is a still a will to donate money to Hibs, then it should be done through an entirely separate body set up for this purpose.
    I tend to agree with this ... If buying shares is not possible then perhaps HSL could or should reinvent itself as an AberDNA style scheme ... though they would still have to administer the shares held by HSL which could complicate the issue I presume.

  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    25th January



    It's good hibs people running HSL, but this is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. If there are no shares, and there is a still a will to donate money to Hibs, then it should be done through an entirely separate body set up for this purpose.
    Why is there any need to set up a new body? Seems an utter waste of time and effort when there is something there already that is funnelling donations and is able if need be to switch to buy any future shares that are later available. Indeed has still got some reserves in place for that eventuality.

    These folks wanting the major shareholder to effectively suddenly give away his shareholding in return for zilch just because a previous extremely philanthropic major shareholder had done so as part of an exit strategy are utterly unrealistic.

    If HSL, as a shareholder, put in funds then it makes a case for the other shareholders to do so in a way that straightforward fan donations don’t but either way without share in exchange to all parties it is still unrealistic. Even more unrealistic is the idea that shares would be made available to HSL alone. So, I’d not be holding my breath for Ron or any of the other secretive shareholders hiding behind nominees putting in any money. A glance at the US and indeed global stock markets might suggest that even Ron’s personally funded line of credit to the club might not be so readily offered.

    Keep things simple - you want to support the club and you can, then buy a season ticket or donate via HSL. If you don’t want to either due to non available share being non available or because you don know what you’d be buying then don’t.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcolm View Post
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    These folks wanting the major shareholder to effectively suddenly give away his shareholding in return for zilch just because a previous extremely philanthropic major shareholder had done so as part of an exit strategy are utterly unrealistic.
    I'm not aware of anyone asking for the major shareholder to give away his shareholding for zilch but equally it seems strange to ask for HSL (with donors who have far less money) to give away their money for zilch in return. It is reasonable when providing capital to a company that you get something in return - usually shares. If Hibs need money badly they will either borrow or issue further shares. HSL could lend Hibs money with a interest rate to preserve the real value of the loan if Hibs are in need. That loan could always be converted to shares or written off in the future but gives HSL some protection in the shorter term.

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  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Deleted. Replied to wrong post!

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    Last edited by Bostonhibby; 31-03-2020 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Replied to wrong post!

    "I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"

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  12. #71
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    I'm sure that's the case with a few of them mate ... but not all 20 I would imagine. There's a few with over a million shares and you don't spend that amount out of sentimentality, or if you did surely you would want folk to know about it.
    Yes, potentially an issue but the way the shares are currently structured I'm not overly bothered about the various motives of some of the nominees, unless it's Petrie

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  13. #72
    @hibs.net private member malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeithMike View Post
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    I'm not aware of anyone asking for the major shareholder to give away his shareholding for zilch but equally it seems strange to ask for HSL (with donors who have far less money) to give away their money for zilch in return. It is reasonable when providing capital to a company that you get something in return - usually shares. If Hibs need money badly they will either borrow or issue further shares. HSL could lend Hibs money with a interest rate to preserve the real value of the loan if Hibs are in need. That loan could always be converted to shares or written off in the future but gives HSL some protection in the shorter term.

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    Not all of it but giving away part of it for zilch is exactly what Tom farmer was doing when shares were issued to HSL - the same seems expected/inferred here. Closely related is the thought that because he owns the most shares then RG should be ponying up.

    I agree that HSL could in theory offer a Loan but I’d be surprised if they could be able to do so under their rules. Part of me says why would they want it back and the rest of me says why complicate a relatively simple arrangement that currently functions by feeding in donations without strings with a reserve (that they have just offered up in part as emergency funding) that relates to a goal that is no longer attainable under current scenario.

  14. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Just got this via Email

    Dear Fellow Supporter,

    We thought it would be helpful to provide an update on things since our last communication in January.

    Tragic world events have overtaken us all and have put everything in perspective. Clearly, like everyone else, our first thoughts are with those who have been directly affected by this dreadful virus.

    As you may be aware we have continued to make donations to the Club from 1st October 2019 in accordance with your instructions. In addition to this we have also applied the same % split (65:35) to donations received from the date of the acquisition until 30th September 2019. Your Directors took this decision on the basis that we felt that Supporters had the same knowledge of affairs after the acquisition was announced and therefore had we taken a poll in early July we would have very likely had the same poll result. We are delighted to say that in total we have passed over £90,000 to the Club since the acquisition.

    At our next Board Meeting we had intended to consider what to do about funds that we held at 30th June 2019, just before the acquisition. We are very clear that Members and donators had given us funds on the clear understanding that these funds were to be passed to the Club in exchange for shares. This is stated in our Articles and indeed had been consistently reported in all our communications. With this in mind we felt that this was not a decision to be made by your Directors as we cannot at any time invite donations from you indicating we will do one thing with your money only to do something else. We never forget that this is your Company and it benefits from your generous donations.

    As previously stated events have moved on and we want to continue to help our Club. With this in mind we would like to suggest that we donate 65% of the funds that we held at 30th June last year to the Club now to help us get through this difficult period. If you agree, this would allow us to immediately transfer a further £16000 to the Club. We would also like to suggest that we shortcut this process by simply pushing ahead unless we receive any material dissenting voices before 5pm on Wednesday of this week. If we receive such objections to this course of action we can of course revert to taking a vote in order to receive clearer instructions. We do hope you find this an acceptable way to proceed but of course as ever await your feedback.

    Finally, we can confirm that we will be seeking to significantly increase our help to our Club and will write again shortly.



    James Adie
    Chairman


    If I read that correctly, HSL had £24k in the cash as at June 2019. This is based on 65% of the funds held then being equal to £16000.

    I thought HSL had a lot more funds but will most likely be wrong!
    To my mind, give all the remaining funds to the club as £8k would not make any difference to the overall picture.
    To be clear, I’ve no idea how much HSL raise or indeed hold in cash just now but I was surprised at the figures.

  15. #74
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcolm View Post
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    Not all of it but giving away part of it for zilch is exactly what Tom farmer was doing when shares were issued to HSL - the same seems expected/inferred here. Closely related is the thought that because he owns the most shares then RG should be ponying up.

    I agree that HSL could in theory offer a Loan but I’d be surprised if they could be able to do so under their rules. Part of me says why would they want it back and the rest of me says why complicate a relatively simple arrangement that currently functions by feeding in donations without strings with a reserve (that they have just offered up in part as emergency funding) that relates to a goal that is no longer attainable under current scenario.
    I think what STF did with shares is quite irrelevant to the current situation.

    Regardless of how fans donated cash to the club, I would ask why should they see something for their investment. Ron has been in the door for 9 months. Personally speaking he's getting nowt from me. I would expect him to manage his business effectively and hope he has the resources needed to operate comfortably. If he can't do that then the fans will step up to the plate in the same way FOH have done across the other side of the city.
    [SIGPIC]

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS View Post
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    Happy for them to put 100% of my monthly contribution towards running the club during the contagion then again if shares do become available never a better time to buy though I am sure we must have reserves for such an occurrence
    Same here.

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    I think what STF did with shares is quite irrelevant to the current situation.

    Regardless of how fans donated cash to the club, I would ask why should they see something for their investment. Ron has been in the door for 9 months. Personally speaking he's getting nowt from me. I would expect him to manage his business effectively and hope he has the resources needed to operate comfortably. If he can't do that then the fans will step up to the plate in the same way FOH have done across the other side of the city.
    Yes irrelevant but that does not seemingly stop the expectation that this precedence is repeated. Judging how anyone could run the business at the moment would be a challenging standard to test against but hey ho the whole world has this challenge.

    However, once again there is an expectation that RG rather Hibs has the resources to operate comfortably. RG’s resources are what we ought to consider irrelevant with it being an unexpected bonus if he can help out further. Meantime it seems at least 1000 fans see that Hibs (not RG) may not have resources to operate comfortably in the near future. Many of those may see this being more than the purchase of a ticket but a contribution to a community without the need for a free scarf, share or a free cup ticket that other forms of scheme may offer.

  18. #77
    First Team Regular 1875STEVE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel 1875 View Post
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    Was this change emailed to all members? The last email I received before yesterday’s update was in November relating to the appointment of a new board member.

    Seems like a fairly substantial change after a vote was cast of all members around where funds would be directed at the end of September?

    The theme of this thread, suggesting 100% of donations be handed to the club during the shutdown, would also suggest quite a few people are unaware of this change?
    i got the email.

    ive been saying since then, they need to be screaming it from the rooftops to try and get more fans signed up.

  19. #78
    First Team Regular 1875STEVE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Daniel

    This isn't quite right. This changed in January and we wrote to all our Members at that time to advise them that all donations from that point would be directed to the Club.

    All donations being currently received are passed to the Club.

    Hibernian Supporters
    Jim, how much has been donated now?

    Last i seen was £770,000, but it's not been update in a wee while.

  20. #79
    @hibs.net private member BT58's Avatar
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    Agree with this 100% anything to help our club survive this horrible time
    Well done HSL
    B


  21. #80
    @hibs.net private member Gerard's Avatar
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    HS is a good means if giving money to help our club survive this crisis and after it us over.
    G

  22. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
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    HS is a good means if giving money to help our club survive this crisis and after it us over.
    G
    You mean HSL?
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £2,389.68!



  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    You mean HSL?
    Yes
    As I understand it us now known as Hiberian Supporters.

  24. #83
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
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    Yes
    As I understand it us now known as Hiberian Supporters.
    Mixed messages then;

    Our mailing address is:
    Hibernian Supporters Limited
    12 Albion Terrace
    Edinburgh, Lothian EH7 5QG
    United Kingdom
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £2,389.68!



  25. #84
    @hibs.net private member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Mixed messages then;

    Our mailing address is:
    Hibernian Supporters Limited
    12 Albion Terrace
    Edinburgh, Lothian EH7 5QG
    United Kingdom
    A very good point.
    I prefer calling them HSL IMHO.

  26. #85
    @hibs.net private member offshorehibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Mixed messages then;

    Our mailing address is:
    Hibernian Supporters Limited
    12 Albion Terrace
    Edinburgh, Lothian EH7 5QG
    United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
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    A very good point.
    I prefer calling them HSL IMHO.
    I think they are still regesterd as HSL but changed to HS Hibernian Supporters in general day to day dealings
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    Stephen Dunn steps down.

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