Why is Edinburgh so filthy?

Went to the game today with a friend from France, who used to work at the Institute on George IV Bridge. He was keen to pop in to see a couple of his old colleagues so we had a wee stroll across the Meadows, stopping in for a pint at Doctor's on Forrest Road. He said to me the city seemed very dirty compared to when he lived here a decade or so ago and as someone who rarely visits the city centre I had to agree about that area in particular. Extreme amounts of graffiti covering numerous doorways and disused shop units, overflowing bins and just a general grime about the place. The Greyfriars Bobby statue is a tourist magnet yet again there's a graffiti-riddled, boarded-up unit right next to it along with a lampost covered in peeling stickers. The whole bridge is one big set of roadworks and that former Missoni hotel just seems to be permanently encased in cladding/scaffolding. Take a right at the High Street (where those ugly counter-terrorism bollards are also covered in graffiti, stickers and general dirt) and head down North Bridge and it's more of the same. As for Princes Street, it's not just the dirtiness but the crapiness of the shops and drabness of what was once a real showpiece street.

I'm probably just sounding like a moaning old bugger, but I'd go so far as to say the city centre is bit of a dump these days. What's the reason for this? Scottish government freezing the council tax for too many years but subsequently slashing council budgets? Less regular cleaning services? Lack of policing around vandalism etc? Or just a loss of pride in our city? I found it all a bit depressing.

😂😂

Its the trans’ fault

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Its the trans’ fault

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...and the immigrants.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Hibspur

Went to the game today with a friend from France, who used to work at the Institute on George IV Bridge. He was keen to pop in to see a couple of his old colleagues so we had a wee stroll across the Meadows, stopping in for a pint at Doctor's on Forrest Road. He said to me the city seemed very dirty compared to when he lived here a decade or so ago and as someone who rarely visits the city centre I had to agree about that area in particular. Extreme amounts of graffiti covering numerous doorways and disused shop units, overflowing bins and just a general grime about the place. The Greyfriars Bobby statue is a tourist magnet yet again there's a graffiti-riddled, boarded-up unit right next to it along with a lampost covered in peeling stickers. The whole bridge is one big set of roadworks and that former Missoni hotel just seems to be permanently encased in cladding/scaffolding. Take a right at the High Street (where those ugly counter-terrorism bollards are also covered in graffiti, stickers and general dirt) and head down North Bridge and it's more of the same. As for Princes Street, it's not just the dirtiness but the crapiness of the shops and drabness of what was once a real showpiece street.

I'm probably just sounding like a moaning old bugger, but I'd go so far as to say the city centre is bit of a dump these days. What's the reason for this? Scottish government freezing the council tax for too many years but subsequently slashing council budgets? Less regular cleaning services? Lack of policing around vandalism etc? Or just a loss of pride in our city? I found it all a bit depressing.

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It’s an utter hovel.

When the weather gets nice I like to walk to and from work. When I walked home the other night I lost count of the number of times I wondered “where’s that rank smell coming from”. Most often it was from filthy, overflowing bins. My walk home is one of the most beautiful commutes you could ever hope to have so it was really dispiriting. Looks like it will be the tram more often than not from now on.

There’s the faeces of any number of animals everywhere and most places are just neglected looking.

The decline is really quite depressing.

I’m bringing my kids up to get tf out of Scotland and never look back because when you take the property prices etc into consideration there’s just a feel of hopelessness and terminal decline everywhere you go.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

It’s an utter hovel.

When the weather gets nice I like to walk to and from work. When I walked home the other night I lost count of the number of times I wondered “where’s that rank smell coming from”. Most often it was from filthy, overflowing bins. My walk home is one of the most beautiful commutes you could ever hope to have so it was really dispiriting. Looks like it will be the tram more often than not from now on.

There’s the faeces of any number of animals everywhere and most places are just neglected looking.

The decline is really quite depressing.

I’m bringing my kids up to get tf out of Scotland and never look back because when you take the property prices etc into consideration there’s just a feel of hopelessness and terminal decline everywhere you go.

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****ing hell mate, if it’s that grim you might want to move yourself

It's a mess. No question. On a par with Glasgow for grubbiness. Princes Street's been a sorry state for years mind you. The Johnnie Walker thing is fine and the new Jenners development sounds promising but they should make most of the rest of it residential. The castle view would be spectacular (unlike the one from Tynecastle).

Has Edinburgh and Leith for that matter ever been anything above “hovel” level ? Granted the odd area gets a spruce up now and again but largely for as long as I can remember its been ****ing minging. We have crumbling pre victorian properties that are buttressed up for many years because of constant maintenance requirements, or replaced by ****ing pre fabricated efforts with life spans of 25 years, then raised to the ground and rebuilt, rinse and repeat.

Then theres the roads..

I was up in Shetland this last week and found it so refreshing.

No potholes. No litter. No dog ****. Clean, neat and tidy.

I know Shetland, and I know it’s ****ing grim in the winter and often not much better in the summer bar the longer days. Luckily enough I had some beautiful weather and swam in the sea twice and went for a couple of runs.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

I was up in Shetland this last week and found it so refreshing.

No potholes. No litter. No dog ****. Clean, neat and tidy.

I know Shetland, and I know it’s ****ing grim in the winter and often not much better in the summer bar the longer days. Luckily enough I had some beautiful weather and swam in the sea twice and went for a couple of runs.

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It baffles me how these idyllic rural areas manage to be free of litter, noise and pollution. Its almost like they have different pressures on their infrastructure than cities do :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Hibspur

Went to the game today with a friend from France, who used to work at the Institute on George IV Bridge. He was keen to pop in to see a couple of his old colleagues so we had a wee stroll across the Meadows, stopping in for a pint at Doctor's on Forrest Road. He said to me the city seemed very dirty compared to when he lived here a decade or so ago and as someone who rarely visits the city centre I had to agree about that area in particular. Extreme amounts of graffiti covering numerous doorways and disused shop units, overflowing bins and just a general grime about the place. The Greyfriars Bobby statue is a tourist magnet yet again there's a graffiti-riddled, boarded-up unit right next to it along with a lampost covered in peeling stickers. The whole bridge is one big set of roadworks and that former Missoni hotel just seems to be permanently encased in cladding/scaffolding. Take a right at the High Street (where those ugly counter-terrorism bollards are also covered in graffiti, stickers and general dirt) and head down North Bridge and it's more of the same. As for Princes Street, it's not just the dirtiness but the crapiness of the shops and drabness of what was once a real showpiece street.

I'm probably just sounding like a moaning old bugger, but I'd go so far as to say the city centre is bit of a dump these days. What's the reason for this? Scottish government freezing the council tax for too many years but subsequently slashing council budgets? Less regular cleaning services? Lack of policing around vandalism etc? Or just a loss of pride in our city? I found it all a bit depressing.

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And you witnessed that in an area that's 'looked after' by the council with more regular bin collections and street sweepers than the non city centre areas!

I have a friend who lives on Forrest Road. He and his neighbours could paint their stair door every week and it would be covered in graffiti the next. It's a good blue touch paper event for winding him up!

The state the roads are in is a disgrace and worse than most 3rd world countries I've been in.

The council need a good shake.

Whe did we stop clearing out the drains in the street? (Or they have certainly stopped clearing them in the schemie areas anyway). There is regular flash flooding near us now because the drains are absolutely clogged full of debris. I'm no climate change denier but this is definitely just because the water has absolutely nowhere to go rather than anything deeper.

Parks near us are rank as well. They cut the grass on the sports pitches but beyond that everything is overgrown, the paths are unmaintained, graffiti all over the changing rooms, litter bins are all damaged so unusable etc etc.

There is definitely an air of neglect about the place. Like the poster above I often walk or cycle to work and the bins en route are regularly overflowing and stinking. The roads are fundamentally unsafe to cycle on as well with the potholes and cracks.

When I was a bairn Edinburgh always felt a total *****hole to me. The areas I mostly encountered were all full of shabby rundown housing, minging bins, broken glass, dug *****, discarded needles, rusting playparks. Even the centre felt neglected and crap. Then there was a real period were it felt different. The high rises and crap housing in loads of places came down and were replaced by vastly improved stock. Community centres got tarted up, leisure facilities were improved, parks suddenly became clean with new play areas, trees, wildflower areas, whole blocks of flats and shops and so on got cleaned up and repainted. Now it feels like we are rewinding 30 years. The new houses have been allowed to decay to the same level as the ones they replaced. I'm looking out my back window now and there is a path with a rusting fence with 2 broken bins hanging off it, a 3rd bin on the path that is overflowing because it is the only one usable and a load of trees (that are the council's responsibility because we have checked) that are overgrown and block about 70% of the path. Best city in the world my erse.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

It baffles me how these idyllic rural areas manage to be free of litter, noise and pollution. Its almost like they have different pressures on their infrastructure than cities do :greengrin

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Fair point - I live in south central Scotland in a rural community plagued with dog ****, litter and potholes too though.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Fair point - I live in south central Scotland in a rural community plagued with dog ****, litter and potholes too though.

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I know, slightly mischievous on my part!

Its a political discussion for me, and i don’t frequent the Holy Ground anymore so it may have been discussed before, but from my political standpoint if you cut funding to local authorities year after year for decades, the agencies who look after the public space, there is only going to be one outcome. Degrading the public space is a political choice.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Whe did we stop clearing out the drains in the street? (Or they have certainly stopped clearing them in the schemie areas anyway). There is regular flash flooding near us now because the drains are absolutely clogged full of debris. I'm no climate change denier but this is definitely just because the water has absolutely nowhere to go rather than anything deeper.

Parks near us are rank as well. They cut the grass on the sports pitches but beyond that everything is overgrown, the paths are unmaintained, graffiti all over the changing rooms, litter bins are all damaged so unusable etc etc.

There is definitely an air of neglect about the place. Like the poster above I often walk or cycle to work and the bins en route are regularly overflowing and stinking. The roads are fundamentally unsafe to cycle on as well with the potholes and cracks.

When I was a bairn Edinburgh always felt a total *****hole to me. The areas I mostly encountered were all full of shabby rundown housing, minging bins, broken glass, dug *****, discarded needles, rusting playparks. Even the centre felt neglected and crap. Then there was a real period were it felt different. The high rises and crap housing in loads of places came down and were replaced by vastly improved stock. Community centres got tarted up, leisure facilities were improved, parks suddenly became clean with new play areas, trees, wildflower areas, whole blocks of flats and shops and so on got cleaned up and repainted. Now it feels like we are rewinding 30 years. The new houses have been allowed to decay to the same level as the ones they replaced. I'm looking out my back window now and there is a path with a rusting fence with 2 broken bins hanging off it, a 3rd bin on the path that is overflowing because it is the only one usable and a load of trees (that are the council's responsibility because we have checked) that are overgrown and block about 70% of the path. Best city in the world my erse.

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In regards to the drains, I think they are currently trying to sort those out, few weeks back I saw the specialist van going about clearing them down by me in Leith, must be doing an area at a time, first time I had seen anything like that in years

I think the answer is mostly in the Glasgow slogan, "People make Glasgow!".


You could apply that to Edinburgh and a number of other places, e.g. "people make Edinburgh (a total *****hole)"

Paris, Barcelona, New York. Not just a Scottish issue. Although if you think Edinburgh is bad, Glasgow city centre is a total hole these days.

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Originally Posted by Jack

And you witnessed that in an area that's 'looked after' by the council with more regular bin collections and street sweepers than the non city centre areas!

I have a friend who lives on Forrest Road. He and his neighbours could paint their stair door every week and it would be covered in graffiti the next. It's a good blue touch paper event for winding him up!

The state the roads are in is a disgrace and worse than most 3rd world countries I've been in.

The council need a good shake.

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That was the issue which especially struck me. These are not the entrances to empty shops or abandoned/poorly maintained council properties. Many of the flats will be privately-owned homes, where the stair doors are presumably in constant use by the owners. The extraordinary level of graffiti there was something new to me and I'm not surprised your friend and his neighbours are furious about it. I'm guessing the police don't see it as a priority, but I'd imagine there must be CCTV cameras around that area?

As you say, for an area which you'd imagine gets 'cleaned' more than most it's depressing to see how unsightly it's become, especially with swathes of tourists in the city centre all year round these days.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

I know, slightly mischievous on my part!

Its a political discussion for me, and i don’t frequent the Holy Ground anymore so it may have been discussed before, but from my political standpoint if you cut funding to local authorities year after year for decades, the agencies who look after the public space, there is only going to be one outcome. Degrading the public space is a political choice.

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I'm not convinced lack of respect for other people's property has much to do with politics, but I did think the Scottish government's decision to extend the council tax freeze under Humza Yousaf was nuts. Councils had been starved of funds for long enough, although in saying that I'm not sure how much faith we can place in councils to invest the funds they do have wisely.

The answer to your question is the people of Edinburgh are responsible for the mess. I don't and never have dropped litter in any city anywhere as I dispose of it properly.

It has always been like this - travellers from the 1600's complained of the effluence around the High Street in particular. Dr Johnson's journals in 1773 noted the foul air and dirt

and general detritus and so on and so on.

Throwing sewage waste out of one's window has generally stopped but the devil may care attitude persists !

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Originally Posted by DH1875

Paris, Barcelona, New York. Not just a Scottish issue. Although if you think Edinburgh is bad, Glasgow city centre is a total hole these days.

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Glasgow's always had a grittier look/feel but you're right, the city centre's sunk to a whole new level now. I was there last week and attempted to take a short cut I used to use to get to my work by nipping along one of the lanes off St Vincent Street. I actually turned back and went the long way round, so disgusting were the underfoot conditions!

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

I know, slightly mischievous on my part!

Its a political discussion for me, and i don’t frequent the Holy Ground anymore so it may have been discussed before, but from my political standpoint if you cut funding to local authorities year after year for decades, the agencies who look after the public space, there is only going to be one outcome. Degrading the public space is a political choice.

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While I generally agree with you I had a wee job driving a wee van around centralish Scotland; being retired my wife and I used to take day trips on the bus all over the place.

The difference between well looked after places and the grubbier ones is/was stark.

If some Councils can do it why can't others? I think there's more to it than Central Government funding.

If it's political then the cynic in me might think in Edinburgh it's a Labour council trying to embarrass a SNP Government on their own doorstep.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Its the trans’ fault

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Do you mean the trams? That business-wrecking fiasco certainly didn't help.

Hopefully now that they finally reach Leith they'll prove to bring some sort of tangible benefit.

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Originally Posted by Hibspur

That was the issue which especially struck me. These are not the entrances to empty shops or abandoned/poorly maintained council properties. Many of the flats will be privately-owned homes, where the stair doors are presumably in constant use by the owners. The extraordinary level of graffiti there was something new to me and I'm not surprised your friend and his neighbours are furious about it. I'm guessing the police don't see it as a priority, but I'd imagine there must be CCTV cameras around that area?

As you say, for an area which you'd imagine gets 'cleaned' more than most it's depressing to see how unsightly it's become, especially with swathes of tourists in the city centre all year round these days.

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Herein lies one of the issues. The city is flooded with tourists. I was in town today and it was very busy, George IV Bridge, Princes St etc. I have no idea how large the city's population is at any given time, but the town centre is rammed. Bins are always overflowing, it's windy as and we have the resident gull population ripping into it all.

Out in the sticks (The Inch), there's dug **** all over the pavements, the same mutts and ignorant owners creating a depressing mess. Then there's the couldn't give a **** tramps, always determined to not care about throwing away their litter or tidying up after the bin lorries make a mess of the street.

The place is a ****hole, the council have no money for much other than Trams and it's not likely to change. As for council tax rises. No thanks, I pay enough on income tax and council tax as it is. Tourist tax would be a start.

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Originally Posted by Hibspur

Went to the game today with a friend from France, who used to work at the Institute on George IV Bridge. He was keen to pop in to see a couple of his old colleagues so we had a wee stroll across the Meadows, stopping in for a pint at Doctor's on Forrest Road. He said to me the city seemed very dirty compared to when he lived here a decade or so ago and as someone who rarely visits the city centre I had to agree about that area in particular. Extreme amounts of graffiti covering numerous doorways and disused shop units, overflowing bins and just a general grime about the place. The Greyfriars Bobby statue is a tourist magnet yet again there's a graffiti-riddled, boarded-up unit right next to it along with a lampost covered in peeling stickers. The whole bridge is one big set of roadworks and that former Missoni hotel just seems to be permanently encased in cladding/scaffolding. Take a right at the High Street (where those ugly counter-terrorism bollards are also covered in graffiti, stickers and general dirt) and head down North Bridge and it's more of the same. As for Princes Street, it's not just the dirtiness but the crapiness of the shops and drabness of what was once a real showpiece street.

I'm probably just sounding like a moaning old bugger, but I'd go so far as to say the city centre is bit of a dump these days. What's the reason for this? Scottish government freezing the council tax for too many years but subsequently slashing council budgets? Less regular cleaning services? Lack of policing around vandalism etc? Or just a loss of pride in our city? I found it all a bit depressing.

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Funny you mention this, but first I would say that part of the city has always looked a bit grubby, but I was coming down from the Royal about 5.30 this morning and street cleaners were everywhere cleaning and hosing the streets down and it’s not the first time I have seen it so I’m going to guess and say that area gets a good clean every morning, I would say from the Meadows down the bridges Lothian Road and all down the middle to Queens Street gets cleaned every morning, seems to be a boundary around that part of the city that is well looked after and it gets all done again the next day every day, it’s a big area, probably about the same size as Muirhouse and Pilton, I wonder how much council tax is collected from the city centre boundary compared to Muirhouse and Pilton who will be lucky if you see street cleaners in these areas once every 3 months, are the deprived areas paying for the upkeep of the city centre to look nice for the tourists but get very little spent doing up deprived ares in the city.

And give it a few weeks and the airport road both ways will get all spruced up for the tourists coming out the airport, the Gyle roundabout will get a makeover and any graffiti will be cleaned off all the way through to the city centre, but Pilton Niddrie and other poor areas will be left to be a dump.

Moan over. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by DH1875

Paris, Barcelona, New York. Not just a Scottish issue. Although if you think Edinburgh is bad, Glasgow city centre is a total hole these days.

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Couldn’t believe how filthy the Parkhead area was when at the cup game, it has had a fortune spent on it for the games and is a lot better than it was but for crying out loud the litter is a joke, doesn’t look like it has been cleaned since the Commonwealth games opened, 100 locals could try to clean it up a bit, yes I know it’s a council matter but it looks like the Parkhead area is an after thought by the council.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

Couldn’t believe how filthy the Parkhead area was when at the cup game, it has had a fortune spent on it for the games and is a lot better than it was but for crying out loud the litter is a joke, doesn’t look like it has been cleaned since the Commonwealth games opened, 100 locals could try to clean it up a bit, yes I know it’s a council matter but it looks like the Parkhead area is an after thought by the council.

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My daughter has moved to the southside of Glasgow and my first impression was even though its a nice up and coming area it is way worse for litter and also potholes than Edinburgh. I cycle a lot and there is no way id cycle at night off the cycle paths there, just too many big cracks in the road.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

I know, slightly mischievous on my part!

Its a political discussion for me, and i don’t frequent the Holy Ground anymore so it may have been discussed before, but from my political standpoint if you cut funding to local authorities year after year for decades, the agencies who look after the public space, there is only going to be one outcome. Degrading the public space is a political choice.

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It is to a point. But people don’t fling litter out their windows because of a lack of bins to dump it in.

It’s something in the mindsets of the people that do.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

Funny you mention this, but first I would say that part of the city has always looked a bit grubby, but I was coming down from the Royal about 5.30 this morning and street cleaners were everywhere cleaning and hosing the streets down and it’s not the first time I have seen it so I’m going to guess and say that area gets a good clean every morning, I would say from the Meadows down the bridges Lothian Road and all down the middle to Queens Street gets cleaned every morning, seems to be a boundary around that part of the city that is well looked after and it gets all done again the next day every day, it’s a big area, probably about the same size as Muirhouse and Pilton, I wonder how much council tax is collected from the city centre boundary compared to Muirhouse and Pilton who will be lucky if you see street cleaners in these areas once every 3 months, are the deprived areas paying for the upkeep of the city centre to look nice for the tourists but get very little spent doing up deprived ares in the city.

And give it a few weeks and the airport road both ways will get all spruced up for the tourists coming out the airport, the Gyle roundabout will get a makeover and any graffiti will be cleaned off all the way through to the city centre, but Pilton Niddrie and other poor areas will be left to be a dump.

Moan over. :greengrin

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I get what you're saying about the allocation of resources, but I'd be very surprised if many tourists would have described the city centre streets we walked along yesterday as looking nice. It was a foreign visitor who remarked to me how shabby it all looked and for me there's no question the maintenance has declined significantly.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

It is to a point. But people don’t fling litter out their windows because of a lack of bins to dump it in.

It’s something in the mindsets of the people that do.

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You mean like ‘gardyloo!’? There’s an historic element to this then, weve been like this for hundreds of years :greengrin

In terms of the council pressure, ill give you an example. Last week when we got unbroken sunshine and 20 degrees for a couple of days, i cycled theough the meadows in the evening and back to work again at 7 the next morning. There were many hundreds of people out after 8pm drinking barbecueing, mucking about and a lot of toffs and students and all sorts. There must have been many thousands there through the afternoon all told. By the next morning it was fairly bad with bins overflowing, litter piled on top of already filled bins, and probably an epic amount of work for the council teams. But it was already looking decent by the evening commute. I also doubt whether littering is that much worse now than it was back in the day. I remember’litterbug’ campaigns back when i was at school. Theres just more of us living cheek by jowl now, certainly more of us eating and drinking out of the home environment as well.