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Can see them being a waste of money and a lot of hassle. I doubt many people will change from Car journey to using the Trams. Bus services will probably be cheaper aswell. It only goes through one route in town so doesn't cover much of Edinburgh either. They should spend the money on improving the bus service, surely there are better ways to encourage public transport than by trams ? :brickwall
yip
waste of money :brickwall
The hassle it's causing with the traffic aswell:brickwallQuote:
Originally Posted by mglancy23
I am watching on from afar with a mixture of shock that the coonicl are making such a bloody mess of Edinburgh (why should I be surprised giving the brown envelope, backhander, self serving level of local cooncilor we get in Edinburgh, see Caltongate for such examples...) and glee that I am far away from this mess, this white elephant that will create a big scar across the face of Edinburgh...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_1875
It will go over budget, over time, and will offer no tangible benefits to the local people of Edinburgh, its on the most services bus route in the city and do you just think LRT will stop their services along this route, nah, instead the motorist and commuter and small businessman who needs his van for work, will get squeezed out as the council care not one jot or iota about Edinburgh residents, just happy to see their name in lights leavign this mess as their legacy..
I'm pretty disgusted about it to be honest, and think the folks of Edinburgh should start a witch hunt and drag those responsible kicking and screaming and put them in stocks on the Castle Esplanade and let the locals throw rotting veg and stuff at them...right next to those lovely people ruining the Meadows and the Caltongate crooks...
I absolutely agree 100% with everything you just said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
The trams are a BAD idea. One route which will serve about 10% of the population of Edinburgh - what about everybody else?? Why bother spending money on the trams when they can't even get the bus services to the outskirts right?
Why not bring the Suburban railway back??
Who the hell decided that trams were a good idea?
All this does is make the city more attractive to tourists and people who live along the (small) tram route. It's completely pointless.
Hmm seems like the general thought's are this is a load of rubbish. Which begs another question, what do the people we elect to council etc see in it? Quite poor how majority seem against it but people who are trusted with budgets seem too like it ?
I think a helicopter taxi service would be a boon. With fares at 50p for a cross town journey, surely there would be no need for these tram cars? After all if they are good enough for johnny foreigner, then there has to be something wrong with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_1875
Come on, Edinburgh Sh*tty Council - get with the new age!
pretty much agree with everything said above. i do not see the benefits at all.
Lothian buses won best bus service in the UK last year so there is clearly no need to make drastic changes to our transport system :brickwall
Lynne, wait til your travels take you abroad and you see proper, modern, clean integrated transport systems! Melbourne has a great tram system which integrates with the bus network and has a grand suburban rail system too, one ticket does all three, its amazing. If Edinburgh REALLY wanted to do this properly then it would cost tens of billions of pounds, instead the cooncil are playing at big cities as usual with the taxpayers dosh, they should be railroaded (no pun, honest!) out of town for the shambolic way they are dragging Edinburgh down with their small minded, live for today attitude to the place... :brickwallQuote:
Originally Posted by BoozyLynne
Hovercraft! Thats the way forward, no need for roads or anything, thats the way to do it, think of the cash saved on no new roads or road maintenance, cover your services with mud Mr Gas-man, we don't need any more of your tarmacadam thank you very much, or a new forth bridge, hovercrafts for all, you know it makes sense... :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
:agree: Excellent post Iain - they never have consulted or gave Edinburgh Citizens the chance to vote on the trams because they know deep down that most of us would vote NO, it is a complete waste of public money which could be used in communities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
The whole tram issue is a complete farce and will never be as good as the bus service we currently have.
500 million plus on Tram system we actually don't need, when they are having to close down schools because of lack of funding, you ask me whats important and its not these flaming white elephant trams anyway :brickwallQuote:
Originally Posted by Cherrose
IMHO they stopped the wrong scheme, the rail link to Edinburgh airport was the one that would actually improve travel in this city/country, instead we got the tram line and cancelled this one...what we needed was a dedicated airport train link to central Edinburgh, preferably via Edinburgh Park, but we get this comedy situation instead...idiots :brickwall
Exactly Iain, I would prefer the money to be spent in schools so my kids can get a great education; on houses with decent front door (which I do not have - terrible in winter and draughty) and adjusting all public places to allow access to disabled and elderly (many of the places I'm thinking about such as post offices have too many steps for some infirm and wheelchair users are unable to access at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
Too many chiefs and no enough indians IMO :brickwall
The Tram executive for Dublin was quoted last week as having noted that the reaction in Edunburgh was the same as he had encountered when the Dublin tram ssystem was kicked off.
I visited (my only trip there) Dublin then and it sure was murder, however he stated that they had just carried over 30 million passengers and people think it's superb.
I thought the bus lanes would be a joke but they are bang on when you need to get into town and avoid the queuing traffic
At first I was all for it as I thought it would be a good icon for Edinburgh but now its just a pain in the a*se.
The traffic is a nightmare and its draining all this money all for very little use to most people in Edinburgh. The money should be used for something much more important i.e improving sports facilities or something that will really benefit the people of Edinburgh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoozyLynne
Agree with both of you, who actually decided it was a good idea for trams, did Joe Public get asked,i really don't know but i think it's crazy,I am dead set against it not that my view will matter,waste of money :brickwall
Will the trams make a difference to getting in and around Edinburgh, will it make it easier or quicker than what we have already, they are servicing the busiest bus corridor in Edinburgh, LRT will still be running buses down here in competition with the trams, I just don't see what tangible benefit they will have on movement around the city??Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaods
I think congestion will actually get worse, cars will be forced into one lane in many parts of the town, if a tram breaks down you are screwed until it is repaired as you can't move it off the road like a bus...
The way to actually improve this issue, which I must say has been hampered by the cooncils road screwingup plans for many years now, is not to throw ANOTHER batch of vehicles onto these roads! They should be looking at local suburban train links to get people off the roads, a regular train link to and from the airport to Haymarket/Waverley, via the busy Edinburgh Park, would alleviate the pressure on the road network.
Actually, turning haymarket into a major traffic hub/interchange would be such a good plan, you could link trains/buses/coaches/pedestrians/cars/taxis etc into one intergrated scheme, instead they are turning the area into anoter retail/hotel development chasing the quick buck and not looking at the overall future planning for the benefits of Edinburgh. They could run regular shuttle buses around the centre of town from Haymarket dropping folks off going to work etc etc.
You could create a smaller hub at the top of Leith Walk too when they demolish the St James centre, linked into the existing bus station..
There is no joined up thinking in Edinburgh regarding transport.
I just don't see the benefits of this tram scheme that is being built, am I missing something?
Surely the way to go would have been a proper underground train service.
Im not talking about the crappy Glasgow style underground, but something more akin to the toronto subway. Its clean, bright and well maintained. It also doesnt put more vehicles on the roads. And with the right design it would cover most of the city. Certainly more than the proposed trams will.
The rail link and 5 or 6 dedictaed park and ride sites around the city, would ease congestion and encourage people to use public transport for at least part of their journey. Far better than a tram system that essentially goes nowhere that buses don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
I'm not a regular bus user, but was 'on the buses' yesterday (of all days!) and didn't have a clue which bus stop to go to when trying to find a 25 back to the Riccarton park and ride.
The information posted on the shelters was far too confusing for me, plus you had so little time to digest it properly due to the numbers of buses whizzing round from Princes Street onto Lothian Road!
Turned out that the 25 just went past all the stops on lothian road anyway, and I ended up getting a 34 instead.
Thank god that was a one off - I hope!
Another little present from oor former governement who even now, after being booted out, VOTED OUT and democratically told to "get tae" are STILL causing us aggro.
Political point? Too ****ing right....
Waste of time, money, energy and too much aggro to boot.
Total piss up of the taxpayers money.
ENDOF
I can't really comment specifically on Edinburgh's proposed service but what I can say is that most of the opinions being voiced on this thread I heard time and again by people here in Nottingham (myself included) before our system was built.
Now people love them.
Yes, it was a pain while the roads were being dug up. The route is fairly restricted too (I rarely find a use for it personally). Everyone said it would be a waste of money, dangerous, interfere with traffic etc.
The result is full trams all day with standing room only in busy periods and TWO proposed brand new routes. People like them because they're reasonably cheap, efficient, reliable, regular and comfortable. Another factor is that people like them because they're safe. Having a conductor helps in this respect.
Friends of mine have even had good nights doing the 'tram pub crawl' hopping on and off on a night out.
http://www.thetram.net/
Have a trip on the Nottingham Tram. It does 500mph!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/feat..._journey.shtml
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Originally Posted by Bad Martini
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/6243158.stm
Its called democracy and the final decision was taken when the snp were in power. Unfortunately they were wrong so the other 3 parties voted for its approval.
total madness if you ask me :bitchy: a complete waste of money and a whole load of disruption being caused. the routes the trams are going to use are ones that buses run down every 5 minutes FFS so what is the point. how about people in the outskirts of edinburgh like muirhouse, oxgangs, sighthill who could actually benefit from some money being spent on extended bus routes or even some sort of train service im sure would be a lot more cost effective and benefiscial.
I fail to see the need for the trams in Edinburgh.
Part of the problem as I see it the numbers of cars coming in from out of town, how are the trams going to reduce this when they only run to certain parts of Edinburgh?
The bus service is good if you live in Edinburgh, for those of us on the outskirts (who still have to pay Edin Council Tax) the service provided is poor. In Sth Queensferry we have one bus service into and out of Edinburgh provided by First buses, the only other options for me to get in to town is either the car or a train. The train service (also provided by the First group) is piss poor, overcrowded and expensive. So the only viable option is to drive.
For people coming from Fife etc the train is again the only option apart from the car.
The park and ride scheme looks to be a good service so why not try to encourage people to use this more.
There is also the issue of providing better transport to Edin airport which is currently non existent.
The council / Government had an opportunity to create a viable and worthy transport system for Edinburgh but instead came up with the Trams.
Was going to add the same thing. The trams do work in Nottingham, despite much opposition before they were completed. The thing I liked most about them was that they were virtually silent, meaning you could hold a conversation on them without shouting over the din of the buses. They also cut my journey time out to my mates houses by half. They may cause major disruption at the moment in Edinburgh, but I'm almost certain they will be well used and appreciated once they are fully up and running. My only dissapointment about the tram system in Nottingham was that I left before they completed the route out to the University. :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by stu in nottingham
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeberdee
Zeberdee ... I am more than a little confused.
The SNP opposed the idea. Most people on here OPPOSE the idea. The ****ing legacy of the labour government is these Godforsaken trams (Which will effectively run the same route as the most COMMON/REGULAR/EVERY 23 SECONDS bus service) ... this is good how?
I do understand the concepts of democracy...democracy is why the SNP are in power and Labour are stuck with their collective erses oot the windae.
Unfortunately, the by product of democracy is the trams which we are all stuck with. Finally, if yer interested in democracy, if we had a wee vote on here, you would find most people would be busy voting against the trams....democracy? I think not......
Just for info, and from the article YOU quoted to me:
"Mr Swinney told BBC Scotland: "We didn't want the trams project but parliament has voted for it and the opposition has put a financial constraint on it and I will vigorously apply that financial constraint."
...JUST to be clear, the SNP D I D N O T want the trams, the people (or the people on here, folk I have spoken to and others all over) are quoted as NOT wanting the trams.....Im sure there is someone out there who'll be mad for the trams.....ye can count me richt oot tho.
I can think of FAR better ways of spending all that loot, as I see folk waiting 4 months on operations (folk I KNOW), folk waiting months on the dentist, folk paying thru the nose for prescriptions etc etc.....money could have been spent there. Nope. Lets blow the ****ing lot on some stupid trams.
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Originally Posted by Bad Martini
I can tell. :greengrin jokin.
The major benifit of replacing the buses will be the improvement in the air in the city. think of all the carcnagenic diesel fumes that will be reduced. The problem was that if the city continues to grow at its current rate, there simply wouldnt be enough buses on our already congested roads. Its also been proven that many drivers who would not use buses, like myself, would be willing to use trams.
Trams offer a whole new transport choice to the people of Edinburgh; one that is proven to appeal to car users where other public transport has failed. Trams are reliable, fast and can carry many passengers; they are also electrically powered producing almost no on-street pollution, which helps to reduce the environmental impact of vehicle emissions.
Also:
http://tramfacts.wordpress.com/all-posts/
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet...tive_to_trams_
Anyway enough of this banter for the day, im finished work and in turn finished wasting even more tax payers money as some of you would probably suggest.
The issue here is not the trams themselves, I think they will be fairly well used by folks, its that they are not replacing the buses, LRT won't roll over and give up all the cash they make servicing the same route as the tramlines, so instead of removing congestion we are adding another layer and mode of transport to an already over subscribed route in and out of town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeberdee
Its small time thinking that has got us the trams, typical of Scotland really, no big picture! We shold be getting people back off the road network by looking at proper local rail links, trying to shoehorn another mode of transport onto the streets of Edinburgh is just folly IMHO. I like the trams I have used in other cities, but this scheme for Edinburgh does nothing to alleviate the issues of congestion and busy roads unless you get rid of the buses on these routes, which won't happen...
Just as an extra to my post above, I can tell most folk on here are against them, but the plan is to have a park and ride out at Ingleston, (as far as I can see) and connect eventually to the airport. This would mean lots of the people out that side of town could park there and then get the tram into town, (along the railway line mainly) which would greatly reduce the traffic into town. Having seen the Queensferry road fairly regularly during rush hour, there are a lot of people out that way who could use this facility.