The Annual Accounts must be about to be released as on the 19 February 2020 a Confirmation Statement was lodged with Company's House, which will be available within 10 days.
So look forward to an announcement soon. Good news or bad news???
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The Annual Accounts must be about to be released as on the 19 February 2020 a Confirmation Statement was lodged with Company's House, which will be available within 10 days.
So look forward to an announcement soon. Good news or bad news???
Likely to be bad reading and not looking forward to it to be honest. Next season will put us back on track if we qualify for Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by JGS56
Wont be bad reading for these accounts, majority of the season was played and we only missed out on a couple of home games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since452
ST income will be down a fair bit compared to previous years (the bulk of the money came in later IIRC).Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
Did we not have record ST sales last year? They were healthy anyways I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
ST sales for this season (20-21) will be in last year's accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Just been checking the website again - I have got it wrong. It is not the Annual Accounts - just a confirmation of shares.Quote:
Originally Posted by JGS56
Maybe more have been issued to put more money into the Club.
Need to watch for the release of this document.
I await with baited breath the forensic accountancy analysis from oneleagueback. Only after they have checked and double checked the figures using that counting super power of their additional finger on each hand will I know what to think.
They'll be fine to count up to 24 1/2 if they take their shoes and y-fronts off.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
It won't show it that way. The cash for this season will be in them (with the other side showing as deferred income in the creditors) but the income would fall into the correct years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
doubt it. Unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by JGS56
Yes, but the cash balance is shown and can be a decent indicator of how well (or not) we're set up for the season to come.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Whether our accounts are healthy or not isn’t based on the following years’ season ticket sales. We had record season ticket sales for last season and the league was cut short by only 3/4 home games. It wouldn’t have affected us too much. This season is a different story altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Wonder when the alleged insurance money was paid
It's the Confirmation Statement, which is submitted annually.Quote:
Originally Posted by JGS56
It's a declaration of the shareholders and office-bearers of the club. An allotment of shares would be shown on a different form.
Except you can't ignore the fact that a large part of the following season's ST sales are included in the accounts and have been for as long as I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
I was a partner in my own business at 25 years old (and still am). Please don't try to give me a lesson about accounts.
We sold around 9000 ST by 30th JuneQuote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
What was the final figure
I can't remember TBH. Was it not something like 11.5 - 12k?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Whilst I was on the Companies House site , I had a look at Developments with our neighbours .
I see director Eric Hogg ( Mrs Budge’s Bidey - in ) has left the Hearts board.
Movement preparing for take over by FoH or just fed up with the circus. :dunno:
Has no impact on our P/L though which is all fans are interested in. If you look at a snapshot of our cash balance to determine how healthy our accounts are then fair play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Not sure why your getting so defensive, no one is giving any lessons, just stating a fact that this years season ticket sales doesn’t impact last years top level accounts.
Jesus Christ. Chill out. Came across as a bit of a dick with your last sentence there. Tad unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Did I mention profit & loss?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
In years gone by the accounts were issued in time for an AG well before Christmas. With a very large part of our income being sales banked in advance, the size of the pile of cash to hand as we entered the season was a good pointer as to the nick we were in.
Balance sheets can be manipulated in any number of ways, but there's no arguing with cash in hand.
Cash is king and cash-flow is everything.
This isn't as interesting if the accounts are published toward the end of the season and obviously Covid & Ron mean that our finances are now far less predictable us outsiders.
Some posters have taken to disagreeing with me whenever the opportunity presents. I can't be bothered with a pissing contest tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart93
If you think I'm a dick then that's up to you.
I'd disagree on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
If you follow the discussions about the accounts on here over the past few years, fans are arguably more interested in how much cash we have/had, in order to support or criticise the Club's spending.
The average punter has no idea what a healthy cash balance would look like. No one talks about how much cash a club has in the bank when the accounts come out. The first line someone will look at to determine accounts health will be P/L. Profit good, loss bad. 99% aren’t accountants therefore care very little around the inner details.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
But then state that we had £xm in the bank so we should be fine through Covid, even though said cash balance was actually 9 months before and is more than likely all gone by the time the accounts are produced. Celtic produced their half season accounts and all anyone talks about is the £6m loss, nothing about their cash in the bank balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yes we do. We have the conversation every season. It's also often one of the bullet points in the press statement when the accounts are released, especially when cash in hand is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
As for profit & loss.
We've already seen Hearts declare 7 figure profits and cash in hand of £2m going into the season, whereas Hibs have barely broken even but have £5m in the bank.
I know which I'd prefer to be.
It's only recently that the accounts have been so "late".Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
In most years, the accounts are out well before the end of the calendar year, so that fans can discuss just how well the ST cash has been spent. If you look back at previous years' discussions on here, the chat is generally more sophisticated than looking at just one number. I'd wager that would go for Celtic boards as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
What is a healthy cash in hand balance? Also, how often do we sell more than 9000 season tickets by the end of June (cut off date for accounts so cut off date for cash in hand)? Again I don’t think this seasons ticket sales at that point has any impact on the health of last seasons accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Good seasons in the past have seen us with around £5m+ cash in hand, however transfer dealings in August will obviously have an effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
The number of STs sold at the end of June is irrelevant. It's the total one month later that goes into the accounts.
Hopefully we'll get another million in prize money. Our prize money for 7th last season was £1.43 million, Motherwell got £2.4 million for finishing 3rd. And we'll probably sell at least one player in the summer. Big Ron's no mug, I think our finances will be sound.
Our year end is the end of June isn't it? It got moved forward when they changed the league cup I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
So the cash balance would be the money received for ST sales up to the end of June, which I imagine would be the bulk of it but not all.
If we're just using cash balance then I don't think we'd know what was ST sales and what was left over from last period either (again, mostly the former though). Deferred income would be the best indicator of how ST sales were going for the next season (by the point of reading it would be the season we're in the middle/near the end of) up to the point of the end of June.
I'm with hibbysam on this one, most people look at the income in the p&l as their point of reference, dated as it may be.
I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.
They’ve been the end of June for years, was extended by two days to take the takeover into account (cash injection and debt clearance).Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
I think it predates the ownership change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
I could be wrong but I think it was to keep the playing season neatly within the financial year.
Let's just wait until they are published there is no point speculating.
In years gone by it was fairly easy to predict roughly what the accounts were going to show. This time around is completely different as there are so many unknowns, mainly due to Covid but Ron also seems to have moved us up a gear in terms of the player budget - at least that's the impression I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbhibby
A bit of speculation could be interesting.
You could say that there's no point in us debating Saturday's red card, but we still do it.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Speculating what’s in the accounts, or how we will do in the next four games etc isn’t going to affect what actually happens. Would be boring as **** if we just sat and waited for things to happen before commenting on them. Rumours and speculation is a huge part of football and sites like this.
Profit is nice. Cash is king.
Except for the fact that if you keep posting losses your cash will evaporate unless further capital is injected.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
There are many things to look at it a set of accounts, with neither profit nor cash balances being the sole arbiter of success or stability
Without cash you cannot do business.You can without profit which as you know is arrived at in an often artificial way in employing certain accounting procedures.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
But as fans we're usually more interested in the profit ( or more accurately here, the income) which shows the overall performance for the year being reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
The cash line is a single balance of the amount of money we held on one given day. Sure, it's a reasonable indicator of what will be available to spend on the next season but it's not generally the headline figure people are interested in reading about I don't think.
In reality the later the accounts are published (and it's already almost 8 months after the year end), the less interesting the cash balance becomes. In the second week of the month it's good to know how much of your wages you have left whereas you don't really care how much you had a month earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Unless there's a liquidity crisis. The P and L gives us the best indication of how the business is performing.
Most fans probably rely on that number without realising it, we all just talk about if the club made a profit etc, thats just the headline amount in the P and L. Its also the bit that's largely picked up by the media.
Lots of cash in the bank isn't a good thing. There is an opportunity cost of holding too much cash, I can't understand why celtic seemed so content to build massive cash reserves, they could have spent that money on anything and then released the amounts when needed.
Footbally clubs up here don't operate as sensible businesses, and some of the decision making from club boards, like celtics make that point so obvious
Very few football clubs, especially in Scotland, have excess cash. Given Hibs go through £600k+ per month, it's surely not excessive for us to attack the season with say £5m in the bank?Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper Greens
In the last accounts profit was arrived at after deduction of depreciation and amortisation of contracts totalling £900,000.In another year of lower season ticket sales this could have lead to a reported loss but would have no effect on the ability of the club to do business but what would have an effect would be the lower season sales generating less cash.