Anyone else get the feeling he isn’t going to sign on?
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Anyone else get the feeling he isn’t going to sign on?
If it ment keeping Irvine I wouldn't care.
I can see your point here but I’d like to see Irvine and Newall play together as well. Could be a superb pairing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DH1875
Love to see him stay but if not we will move on. The King is dead, long live the King and all that.....
I think he'll be away. If we lose him and Jackson in the summer it'll be a huge blow so I'm just trying to enjoy them while I can.
Guaranteed European group stage football could be a very attractive incentive to a number of players if we achieve 3rd place.
No disrespect but money talks. For most professional footballers that's the main driver.
Definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
I think Newell might get a wee bit more money at an English club. I don’t think it’ll be a life changing difference and I don’t think he’ll get a better club than Hibs though.
Isn’t that the only case if the Scottish cup doesn’t go ahead? I know if it does and Celtic / Rangers or us win it the it wouldn’t matter anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
He came from Rotherham in the championship so he'll have been on very decent cash down there and I'd assume be one of our higher earners, he's a decent player but not irreplaceable, the one bonus is he's a lefty which we haven't got a lot of.
I hope Joe re-signs, I'm sure he saw playing in Scotland as a short term opportunity to progressing his career. He's done well for us, does us a favour signing a new contract as it mean if a club comes in for him they will have to pay a decent rate if he's under contract. From a personal pov he continually improves which means he attracts a better club and the added bonus of playing European football must be appealing and considered a major plus point.
Yup and the club will be in a stronger position to offer increased wages and bonuses to players if group stage European football is guaranteed for next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
Did Boyle not make a joke about it in an interview or something?
That would seem promising to me.
I’d like him to stay, and it depends on what happens with Irvine, but I don’t think Newell is as integral as he was pre January. He’s got a job on his hands to get back in the team.
I agree with that and also think they may take a gamble on Newell and look to tie up Irvine if they think Nisbet and/or Porteous are to be sold at the end of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Wages not great at Rotherham - see below. Don't think he has done enough to get a contract with a bigger championship side.
Think he will be trying to maximize sal
ary and length of contract at Hibs.
https://footballleaguefc.com/rotherham-united-2player-wages/
Newell and Irvine could get more money down south, but what they won't get is a chance to play in Europe.
So I'd consider offering both a one year deal to keep both sides happy. We get them for another year, and they would still be free agents after it. Good performances in Europe could see them get a better club or contract than they would this summer.
Would love to keep Newall and Irvine but think that keeping one of them is the most likely scenario.Two different styles of player but ultimately keeping hold of Irvine is the priority particularly if Scott Allen can regain fitness and form..
I like Newell but I'm not sure he's done anything he wasn't already doing down the road so no guarantees the offers are better there than they were before.
Every chance he stays on.
I think he'll hang off until he sees where we're going to finish. Potential Europa League group stages will see him stay imo.
Good shout. Likely his only chance for European footballQuote:
Originally Posted by Since452
He might get more money but he will not get a better club.
Not sure the idea of playing a few games in Europe will make a difference to their decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
Especially not in Irvine’s case who has already played allover the world for Oz, including 3 World Cup finals appearances.
Ithink they will both get offers from championship sides that are 4 or 5 times what they get at Hibs, so think they will be back down the road in the summer.
I also hope I am 100% wrong, and that something can be done to keep them here.
I think Newell might get more money than Hibs can pay, but not 4-5 times as much. That would put him on £15k or so a week and he’s not that good a player. I know the championship has a bit of money but the average wage is skewed massively between what the top and bottom teams pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza Fred
If he leaves he leaves. I like him he’s been one of our better players this season but strangely enough that being said I think he’s replaceable and wouldn’t bother me too much if he decided to leave. I’d rather keep him but if not won’t be devastated.
He probably wants to see where we end up this season before making a decision. If we get into the Europa League or Europa Conference group stages then I think he will stay.
If they could get four or five times what we can pay them then why did Newell sign for us in the first place? He's not been that impressive as much as I like him as a player and why was Irvine without a club at all for six months?Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza Fred
Surely if they were that good then they wouldn't be at hibs earning a quarter or a fifth of what championship clubs can pay
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Schadenfreude is not something I take any pleasure in, however there are some recent examples that act as a good warning to players that the 'poker' game of holding out does not always end well.....I think of Fraser Fyvie and Efe Ambrose who left us for better deals elsewhere that didn't materialise, or Stephen O'Donnell who turned down an extension at Killie for a couple of temporary contracts at Motherwell.
Newell has been decent but hasn't stood out, not enough anyway. When other clubs came poking about in the last window it wasn't him they were looking at. The kind of money that was being talked about for our star performers shows that England still doesn't rate Scottish football that highly, if Newell moves it will be because some lower championship side want a squad player or it will be League 1.....to make matters worse for him, COVID means the amount of money kicking about is much reduced at those levels.
If Hibs have put an offer on the table he should be thinking seriously about picking up that pen......there may not be a better offer and we could find better in the meantime.
Newell was another to take his time to find his feet at Hibs his form has been up and down like many others, some games he's been excellent and looks the best player on the pitch, the next game could easily pass him by and he's been a passenger. This has been seen in Hallberg and Mallan and one of the main reasons our performances are so inconsistent but we are Hibs and until we pay bigger wages inconsistent players like Newell, Hallberg, Mallan, Doidge, Horgan, Slivka etc, are who we will get into the club.
Whether he signs or doesn't want to sign, the sooner that is clear the better. That leaves Jack Ross in the best place to manage the situation properly and to the best advantage of the club.
Joe and Rocky have had offers on the table for a long time. Neither are in any rush to sign them. Obviously a game of bluff from both and we just need to see who folds first.
Newell and Doidge are both significantly better than run of the mill inconsistent players who struggle to get into the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
They are both key players in one of the better Hibs teams in recent times.
They’ll be thinking that if we get Europe our budget will increase so what’s the rush in signing now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
I think Marciano’s chat last week that he knows his worth was ominous and suspect he’ll be away.
I can see Newell at Birmingham next season.
Ian harkes from Dundee Utd perfect replacement if he doesn’t sign on.
I think he would jump at the chance of joining them if they were interested. If being the key word I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Only player I've been impressed with at United is Fuchs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrougier123
Nowhere near Newell’s level.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrougier123
Fair point about Irvine's achievements so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza Fred
I wouldn't blame either of them for leaving if they could get another £4k per week (probably double Hibs' offer) but if there's only £1k in it then the opportunity to play in Europe has to be tempting for an extra year here.
Yep, it’s a nonsense comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
It suggested the reverse to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
It was like Boyle was trying to ambush or embarrass Newell on live TV.
I agree with you and I don't expect to see either in a Hibs shirt come August. I think Irvine, in particular, is a top class player and will have plenty of offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza Fred
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
Like he was goading him, like I've signed, Lewis signed, c'mon mate it's your turn.
Indeed. Both excellent. Levels above Mallans, Skivkas and Horgans etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
It has been a strange year, definitely made me wish I was physically closer to my family at times. Don’t blame anyone for holding off committing to anything just now 😁
Hope he signs, if not we move on, I like him a lot but we’ve lost better and got over it I’m the past 👍
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
He has improved for me harkes good technique,athletic covers the pitch well.cracking through ball yesterday.sometimes these players are right under your noses.a year left on utd deal.
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Who would you compare newell too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Sauzee
That would be horrendous.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrougier123
Well I think I’ve got an eye for a player so stuff the lot of you 😝😂Quote:
Originally Posted by easty
Think Barrie Mckay always looked after the ball and would do well in a central midfield role. Now at Swansea on loan to Fleetwood.
On his day brings great composure and ball retention to the middle of the park but has as many average displays as complete stand outs. Would be happy for him to stay but wouldn’t be breaking the bank to keep him either, would release a fair wage if he doesn’t so would be hoping to find a decent replacement.
Never mind 4 or 5 times their wage. Just doubling it and their off. Even just going from £4k to £6k a week is life changing. 3 year deal and that's over £300k extra in the bank.
Hes proved himself this season as one of our best players
Irreplaceable no, but defo worth keeping and building a good squad with.
He is a winger is he not?Quote:
Originally Posted by EVENTUALLY
Yep hope he stays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbo6-2
I don’t think it’s that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by DH1875
I wouldn’t move just anywhere even if my salary would double, and I’m not getting as much as they make here.
Good player, see him now as more in the Dylan role - would be good to get him on a longer deal. Be interesting to see him with Irvine and Cadden in the midfield during the run in.
Come on Andy Doidge is bang average at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Even if he is bang average. He’s a bang average player better than anyone else at the club that could replace him up top playing alongside Nisbet or Boyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by loanheadhibby
Would be delighted if Newell signed on for a lengthier stay at Hibs as he has been great this season - looking like the classiest player on the pitch in many games. I don't know what wage he's on but would suggest he has earned himself a raise if he stays. We all know the finances in football could take him out of our reach though and if that happened I'd wish him good luck (as long as he wasn't poached by the huns or somesuch in which case hanging, drawing and quartering would be too good for him :greengrin)
He’s actually excellent at his best, which he has shown many times. In this league he is well above averageQuote:
Originally Posted by loanheadhibby
Doidge is part of a group of players who are well clear in 3rd. Calling him average at best is unfair. He's a nightmare for defenders and even when he doesn't score he's making chances for others. We were screaming out for a player like him for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by loanheadhibby
Doidge is average yet he keeps getting picked to lead the line. 😂
And would get picked at every team outside the top 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
I wish we had more bang average players like Doidge. If some Hibs fans can’t see what he brings to the team maybe Yogi was right when he said “fitba folk ken”
He doesnt even approach average if we're talking natural goalscorer. I haven't been his biggest fan but now accept his other talents talked about here make him a very important part of our current side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Yes, his 133 careers goals in 344 games, better than 1 in 3 shows he is a hopeless goalscorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby
He is an above average goal scorer and a quality player. Vital in our season so far.
No, he's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by loanheadhibby
He's played a bit of a different role this year with Nisbet getting a bigger share of the goals, but last season he scored 19 goals in 39 games for us.
A quick look at prominent Hibs strikers shows Fletcher's best was 14 in 35 games, Kenny Miller got 13 in 38, Garry O'Connor got 20 in 45. Mixu's best was 12, Killen got 16 and Archibald got 15 in 44 total games.
He does a lot more but even on goal scoring he is doing fine overall.
Newell would have signed by now if he was going to.
I reckon he will be away back down to England.
Not necessarily, he could be just waiting to see how the season progresses and if he gets any better offers in from Championship clubs. If we come third we may be in a position to offer Newell, Marciano, Irvine improved terms to what is currently on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by HH81
Doidge has been miles from his best this season but even at his current level he's a hugely important player for us.
If he gets back to doing what he's capable of then he's one of the best in the league.
I'm critical of him but it's only because I rate him.
Irvine has brought a real difference to the midfield and others have benefited from it. I’m glad our game against Ross County was postponed as it gives him some extra time to recover from the last game.
Really looking forward to seeing how Joe benefits from Irvine in the team. Having a midfield 3 of Irvine, Gogic and Newell, with Cadden and Doig running the flanks sounds pretty solid to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
It would be interesting to see how many of his goals have come off his shoulder instead of head, his shin instead of foot, off a defender instead of missing the goal. Look I now rate the job he's doing at Hibs as I've said and won't comment any more as its not the right thread but I'll maintain he cannot be classed as a natural goalscorer.
He’s an all round striker who also scores goals. Couldn’t care less what part of his body he scores with, he scores them. He misses loads of chances, but creates far more, and scores his fair share. GOC, Fletch etc none of them were ‘natural goalscorers’ and all missed plenty chances. They still scored loads and their all round game was what made them outstanding players. Doidge not quite at their level but he’s definitely in the same mould.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby
Only the uglies have scored more than us therefore we must be doing something right. This wouldn't be the case if one half of our strike force was as useless as some make out.
I dont think it matters if anyone is categorised as a natural goal scorer. I'm all for strikers who score 20 goals off their shins etc.
Me, and everyone else saying Bruno scored a peach yesterday, even though it was off his shin. A goal is a goal, whether a yard out off your arse or a 45 yard lob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
I'm glad the Ross out/Doidge is pish brigade aren't in charge of our football club
Oh, I dunno... you should hear Wee Ron when he's got a drink in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since452
:faf: I have a very funny mental picture in my head now !Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Would it be interesting? I couldn’t care less how they go in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby
I'd much rather see Allan or Murphy in there over Gogic against most teams in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
Gogic is great for games when we need an enforcer (against Aberdeen or the old firm, or when the pitch is terrible), but I wouldn't be starting him every week.
In most games I'd much rather see a hibs midfield where every player has good technique, can take players on and play defence splitting through balls a la McGeouch-McGinn-Allan. Think with Newell-Irvine-Allan/Murphy we're close to having that again.
I wonder how many Robertson or McCoist scored in similar fashion? Two players who are hailed as fantastic goal scorers in Scotland’s history often scalfed and scuffed balls in to the net.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby
Midfield has been perfectly balanced the last few weeks with Gogic, Irvine and Murphy. Getting the best players on the pitch doesn’t necessarily add up to the best balance IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
It’s Gogic, Irvine and one other for me. Newell has a battle to get back in the team for me, as I don’t think he’s the one to play that bit further forward.
Funnily enough I think the team looks much more balanced when Gogic is in there irrespective of who we're playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
Every team carries a threat against us of some sort, often on the break. Having someone like Gogic in there to win the ball back quickly will stop weaker teams from getting any sort of foothold in the game.
When we play badly as a team he tends to stick out like a sore thumb but I think he's had a cracking few games of late, and he had a few good games at the start of the season when we were playing well too.
At the moment it is looking to me like it is seriously stiff competition for that third midfield place between Murphy, Allan and Newell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy7nil
McCoist 584 games 290 goals, 1 in 2,
Robertson 570 games 229 goals around 1 in 2.5
yes but how many of them were sclaffed !Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
McCoist sclaffed loads in a team that created loads of decent opportunites. Robbo was an excellent finisher in a Hearts team that had Neil MacFarlane. His hight was an issue or he'd have had many more caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by worcesterhibby
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
I'll be back in a fortnight while I look at every goal they scored.Quote:
Originally Posted by worcesterhibby
Both were excellent poachers who did all their work inside the box, Linekar was another, if you ask them to do more you take away their scoring ability, being the right positions is how they scored so many.
Shearer was a different type, he worked harder and scored many from outside the box.
Back to Newell, being reported that we may be struggling to tie down both Newell and Rocky, I must admit that if they were signing I think they'd have done it by now. Maybe both want to be nearer family as it has been a very tough year for everyone.
They all went in. All that matters. Very good goalscorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby
Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Jack Ross plays him every week, so he doesn't think he's average.Quote:
Originally Posted by loanheadhibby
Not playing for Wales has no impact whatsoever on his ability at this level. Nisbet has zero Scotland caps, average as well? How about Scott Allan?
You must have been watching different games to me when we played dundee utd and st mirren away then.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
I'll give you it against Aberdeen but our midfield was far from 'perfectly balanced' in either of those two other games. We had nobody playing that deep lying play maker role that newell does so well - taking the ball from the centre backs, distributing from deep, controlling the tempo, setting up attacks with line breaking progressive passes. As a result most of our build up play came from the centre backs either hoofing it to doidge or getting it wide to the wing backs and hoping they would be in space. Both those games were dreadful to watch and definitely not what I want to see from a Hibernian midfield. Having Newell in there would have made a big difference to the entertainment on display and the team performance in both games imo.
Gogic is useful to have but how many top teams in world football play with a pure ball winner as the deepest midfielder every week? very few. Football has moved on from the 2000s.
The Dundee Utd game was on a tatie field, St Mirren was horrific conditions and Aberdeen was on a tatie field against our main rivals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
I disagree with your assessment of how we got our chances in those games as well. Irvine played Boyle in with the best pass I’ve seen from a Hibs midfielder for his goal at Utd for a start.
I agree most top teams have a deep lying playmaker. But we’re not a top team. We’ve found a way that gets the best from most of our players in the last few games. Attackers scoring, not conceding at the other end and the midfield contributing to both. I think that’s a good balance.
I agree with this completely, If anything we could do with a decent back up that is capable of fulfilling Gogic's role when he's injured, overplayed or just out of form. This will be particularly true if we get third this year and end up with a lot of European games. You want at least two players for every position ideally and cover for Gogic and Doidge would be the most important IMHOQuote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I was talking more about our build up play in our own half, Irvine has played some great through balls in the final third but I've not seen him do it deeper in midfield to help us play through the opposition press and break through the lines while keeping the ball on the deck in the same way that Newell does or McGeough used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Also think that's a massive exaggeration, was no doubt a fantastic ball but "best pass you've seen from a hibs midfielder"? I'd highly doubt that, for a period of time in 2017/18 Allan was producing moments like that two or three times in a game.
Like you say we've been getting the results recently so I can't really complain but I think we play our best football when Gogic isn't starting due to how limited he is technically, can only really pass the way his facing and takes him an age to turn when he's facing our own goal with the ball. When we were playing 4-4-2 earlier in the season and Hallberg started partnering Newell in midfield instead of Gogic our style of play was much better to watch, with Newell controlling the game from deep and Hallberg makine late runs into the opposition box. Think Newell and Irvine could have a similar sort of partnership together.
We don't need to have two midfielders who's only job is to tackle in the squad. Definitely need at least one for certain games or to bring on when we're defending a lead but I'd be annoyed if we were wasting a wage on having two midfielders as technically limited as Gogic.Quote:
Originally Posted by worcesterhibby
We don't need that sort of player every game. We beat Motherwell 3-0 and completely controlled the midfield with Wright, Hallberg, Newell and Murphy. Who was playing the Gogic role that day?
Similiarly when we beat Aberdeen 3-0 last season we had a diamond of Hallberg, Boyle, Newell and Allan - not a ball winner in sight but again we were dominant against a big physical team because technically our players were streets ahead.
Absolutely loved big Marv, but in 2017/18 after he stopped starting games around January we started playing much better football than in the first half of the season and winning more games, with McGeough playing deeper in midfield than he previously had been.
I actually meant to say it was the best pass I’ve seen from a Hibs midfielder this year (not ever) re Irvine’s pass against Utd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
Where I’m coming from is that I don’t think Newell being in the team would have made us better in those particular games. If you look at the corresponding games earlier in the season. Poor and subbed against Aberdeen, poor and subbed up at Utd. Good away to St Mirren on a nice sunny day when we scored an early goal, totally different game and conditions to what we faced a couple of weeks ago.
It’s fine having this idealistic way of playing but in January and February on a pitch in Scotland, it’s probably not going to happen that often. I think the midfield in the last few games have allowed us to do both sides of the game well which I think has been an issue previously, particularly against Aberdeen.
I think Doidge is probably suffering from being in the Scottish league system, he would have a better chance getting a game for Wales if he was still at Forest Green or in League 1 down south. OTJ got 7 Welsh caps but they were when he was with Swansea, he was awful but played in the right league.Quote:
Originally Posted by loanheadhibby