To HS can we play any part in assisting our club during this uncertain time?
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To HS can we play any part in assisting our club during this uncertain time?
I’d be tempted to hand over all the cash to Hibs to help with running costs in this uncertain time. Keep the shares they have and draw a line under it.
Finish on a good news story.
Not a lot of thought from me and not in keeping with the constitution so expect disagreement.
IMO at this time we should consider supporting our club with the money raised via HS' members cash donations.
I thought the last vote on what to do with money still coming in had the bigger percentage still going to Hibs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3pm
It’s a fine suggestion in my view.
Good idea. Also might be a good idea to advertise more stones on outside of stadium.
If possible I’d like to see any HSL money diverted to protecting the wages and jobs of non-playing staff on low incomes during this time.
would be my preference as well m8.👍Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
That is an excellent ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Gerard
Yep, definitely where I'd agree to mine's goingQuote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
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Me too :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Great call.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Mine too! Can this be sorted KP??Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
An excellent idea, would have my support
Me tooQuote:
Originally Posted by whiskyhibby
Can someone retitle the thread as I’m not sure it will be clear to a lot of folk what HS is? This is something worth discussing so deserves a bit more exposure.
DoneQuote:
Originally Posted by tamig
I'm not sure what the current monthly £ figures are for Hibernian Supporters now, it would be interesting to find out.
Given the exceptional circumstances just now it should be relatively easy for HS to put out a vote to members and move to 100% donation for the months we are without football income rather than the current 50/50 split of share savings and donations to the club.
Easiest way for anyone looking to help the club through these tough times at the moment would be to sign up and start a direct debit, in the knowledge that at least half of your money is going straight to the club.
I do agree it would be wise to divert the 'share funds' to the club, from a certain date (say 1st April) until we are back to normal. Although this would need to be agreed by a majority of members before it could happen.
Agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel 1875
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Happy for my donations to go to staff.
I assume Hibs are taking up the government offer to pay 80% of wages which should help with costs.
I've tried messaging OfficialHSL on here suggesting they look at the thread and get their input but seems their inbox is full. I've also tried contacting them through the HSL website asking to comment on thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
Maybe not my place to post this but this was reply from Jim.
John
I am already in discussion with Leeann and Ron to let them know we are more than happy to assist.
Watch this space.
Jim
Happy for them to put 100% of my monthly contribution towards running the club during the contagion then again if shares do become available never a better time to buy though I am sure we must have reserves for such an occurrence
Yes I would be happy for all money to go to support the low income staff keep their jobs.
[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
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I’ll help where I can - one for Hibernian Supporters to pick up with members and the club (and vice versa).Quote:
Originally Posted by edinburghhibee
I’ll tap in - I’m positive we’ll hear from one or the other in the coming weeks on what opportunities there are for willing supporters to contribute to the club.
Club is in a good space but with no income at the moment we don’t want that position going on too long.
Nice one ✅Quote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
Got my vote great idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskyhibby
Cheers mate thanks for replyingQuote:
Originally Posted by Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
:aok:
If Hibernian apply through HMRC for everyone on PAYE to get 80% of there wages, up to £2,500.00 per month, HSL could top up the 20% so no one would be worse off financially. Just a thought.
JKB poster saying HSL have a notice on companies house to be compulsory struck off.
Possibly wind up.
If not, then what will happen with shareholding?
Sell to club? Sell to individual bidders to bring in yet more cash that can go to the club?
I would buy some shares if available from HSL.
It's a Gazette notice to strike off and it looks like it's because the confirmation statement is overdue. I don't think there are any fines but they need to get their fingers out.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyDave
The club was also late in submitting its confirmation statement and the accounts still haven't been filed - they're due by the 31st and the club will suffer a small fine if they're late. Is someone at the club (or auditors) not doing their job properly? It's all online filing and not particularly difficult, although the changes in shareholdings need to be included.
Caversham GreenQuote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
This routine submission has now been made. Not going to pretend it has anything to do with the Virus crisis, it was some issues we had with login in codes which then knocked on to be a simple oversight.
We continue to make donations to the Club and intend to give an update shortly.
Hibernian Supporters
Good to hear - keep uo the good work.Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficialHSL
Edit: Just checked and it's registered online now.
Good news, it would be good to find out just how much we have donated now.Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficialHSL
[QUOTE=1875STEVE;6127792]Good news, it would be good to find out just how much we have donated now.[/QUOTE
Good news
[QUOTE=Gerard;6127837]https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/about-us/Quote:
Originally Posted by 1875STEVE
The web site shows a figure of £770K, i don't know how accurate that figure is though, or when last updated.
Just got this via Email
Dear Fellow Supporter,
We thought it would be helpful to provide an update on things since our last communication in January.
Tragic world events have overtaken us all and have put everything in perspective. Clearly, like everyone else, our first thoughts are with those who have been directly affected by this dreadful virus.
As you may be aware we have continued to make donations to the Club from 1st October 2019 in accordance with your instructions. In addition to this we have also applied the same % split (65:35) to donations received from the date of the acquisition until 30th September 2019. Your Directors took this decision on the basis that we felt that Supporters had the same knowledge of affairs after the acquisition was announced and therefore had we taken a poll in early July we would have very likely had the same poll result. We are delighted to say that in total we have passed over £90,000 to the Club since the acquisition.
At our next Board Meeting we had intended to consider what to do about funds that we held at 30th June 2019, just before the acquisition. We are very clear that Members and donators had given us funds on the clear understanding that these funds were to be passed to the Club in exchange for shares. This is stated in our Articles and indeed had been consistently reported in all our communications. With this in mind we felt that this was not a decision to be made by your Directors as we cannot at any time invite donations from you indicating we will do one thing with your money only to do something else. We never forget that this is your Company and it benefits from your generous donations.
As previously stated events have moved on and we want to continue to help our Club. With this in mind we would like to suggest that we donate 65% of the funds that we held at 30th June last year to the Club now to help us get through this difficult period. If you agree, this would allow us to immediately transfer a further £16000 to the Club. We would also like to suggest that we shortcut this process by simply pushing ahead unless we receive any material dissenting voices before 5pm on Wednesday of this week. If we receive such objections to this course of action we can of course revert to taking a vote in order to receive clearer instructions. We do hope you find this an acceptable way to proceed but of course as ever await your feedback.
Finally, we can confirm that we will be seeking to significantly increase our help to our Club and will write again shortly.
James Adie
Chairman
No arguments from me.
Or me:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by surreyhibbie
GOOD and important money for our clubQuote:
Originally Posted by surreyhibbie
At this moment in time it's the right thing to do.
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Yes just read the email and 100% agree:thumbsup:
Same from me. Does this mean that 35% of donations still sit with HSL and are not passed to the Club?
I’ve just got that email and 100% agreement from me. Glad to help the club in any way at this time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
And mine
Happy to hand over the cash but maybe it’s time Ron Gordon sold the shares like STF or even open up more shares to fans to help with any cash flow issues.
On the face of it, this seems very reasonable to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Maybe a share issue which still left him with a majority holding might work? I’d def buy sharesQuote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Ron has around 2/3 of the shares and he is very clear that he does not want to dilute his shareholding at the moment. This is why the original arrangement with HSL ended.
At the moment 35% of donations are held by HSL each month in order to have reserves available to purchase shares if another share issue takes placeQuote:
Originally Posted by Monktonhall 7
The world has changed since Little Big Ron bought Hibs. If the club does really start to need the money, I think fair's only fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
I completely agree with you, but my problem is Hibs is one of the parts of life where the heart rules my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
I was bitterly disappointed that we couldn't get the meaningful shareholding and was in the sceptical camp generally until the current uncertainty descended, but owners come and go.
The club can have my contributions to give it the best chance of coming through this mess in the best possible shape.
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Thanks for that. 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel 1875
Would be happy if HSL passed every penny they hold to Hibs at this moment in time :aok:
According to the accounts 31% of Hibs is in the hands of HSL and individual shareholders, with Ron Gordon at 67%. If that is enough by now to prevent the club being asset stripped by Ron Gordon or any future owner then I for one would be happy to see HSL turned into a body whose only purpose is to receive donations which are then passed to the club for it's benefit on and off the park and forgetting the share buying aspect altogether.
Ron Gordon owns the majority shareholding in Hibs as such own the majority of the problems facing Hibs. As fans we are emotionally attached to the club, I’d argue that RG is still on that journey, but we are unprecedented times and as such we need to pull together. HSL was set up to give Hibs fans a share in the future of our club collectively, this was not bought into by as many Hibs fans as was hoped.
But the reality is HSL members have put in around £750k into Hibs. The club was sold and the new owner does want to reduce his shareholding, again this is understandable but things changes. Hibs like all businesses are facing a struggle for survival.
But football clubs are different as we all buy into the club with our hearts not just cash. But if RG wants HSL to help then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to reinstate the same deal that STF had with HSL to get more cash into Hibs. HSL were set up get a shares in Hibs for the fans not as an additional income stream for our multi million pound club owner.
The issue with the nominee shareholder(s), who own roughly 10% of the club, appears to be very few people actually know who they are, which means in the event a big decision was being made that required 75% of shareholders approval, the nominee shareholder(s) couldn’t necessarily be relied upon to vote in the wider interest of the support.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
If the person/people who own the rest of the shares fancied cashing in if an approach was made by someone with bad intentions for Hibs then, bluntly speaking, the support would have no real say on the matter as things currently stand.
Totally agree with this. Nothing for nothing in this world, especially now and Hibs are a business not a charity. If the club needs the fans to donate additional money to keep it going, I would say it's very likely they would be backed to the hilt if the investment was translated into a shareholding.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
I would ask why fans could be expected to donate money, what would the difference be between asking us to invest and seeking revenues elsewhere, apart from the obvious emotional draw that us supporters feel?
DanielQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel 1875
This isn't quite right. This changed in January and we wrote to all our Members at that time to advise them that all donations from that point would be directed to the Club.
All donations being currently received are passed to the Club.
Hibernian Supporters
Was this change emailed to all members? The last email I received before yesterday’s update was in November relating to the appointment of a new board member.Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficialHSL
Seems like a fairly substantial change after a vote was cast of all members around where funds would be directed at the end of September?
The theme of this thread, suggesting 100% of donations be handed to the club during the shutdown, would also suggest quite a few people are unaware of this change?
25th JanuaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel 1875
It's good hibs people running HSL, but this is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. If there are no shares, and there is a still a will to donate money to Hibs, then it should be done through an entirely separate body set up for this purpose.Quote:
Can I first of all wish all our Members and contributors a very Happy New Year.
As you are aware Hibernian Supporters currently holds 15.3% of the shares in Hibernian. Late last year members elected to have their donations distributed in accordance with their particular wishes. As a result, from 1st October last year 65% of donations received by us have been passed to the Club to be used by the Football Dept. The remaining 35% of donations have been retained in anticipation of buying further shares.
I am now writing to you today to confirm that we have received a letter from the Club regarding the potential purchase of Shares. They have advised that “the Board is content with the balance of share ownership and will not approve the further sale or purchase of shares’’. This means that we are unable to acquire any shares from the Club or existing shareholders. It is important that this information is passed on quickly as we are aware that many Members/donators are contributing on the basis that their money will be used to buy shares. Members who currently donate to us should understand that in future we will be donating all future funds received to the Club for use by the football Dept.
The Club have passed on their thanks for all your generosity to date and have expressed a “desire to continue to work productively and proactively with HSL for the future progress and success of our Club”.
I confirm that we will seek to work with the Club to explore any and all other avenues to see how Hibernian Supporters can continue to financially support the Club.
Thanks for sharing, don’t seem to have received that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Green
I always thought the share fund was in place in the event a further share issue was announced or for if/when Ron G moves on. Seems remiss to have taken that decision without the chance to challenge/vote on it.
Email dated 11th October.
Recent Poll
Following the result of the recent poll with our existing donators, funds received from them from 1st October 2019 will be distributed as follows:
- 65% will be passed to the Club for the Football Dept.
- 35% will be retained for future share purchases as and when they become available.
Supporters joining from 1st October onwards will see 100% of their donation going to the Club.
Yes indeed, it would be very interesting to find out who these larger shareholders are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel 1875
There are 20 entries on the shareholders list shown as either 'investments' or 'nominees' ... they hold 11,857,000 shares. That's not unusual in itself, I would imagine many listed companies have shares owned by such bodies ... but with few exceptions they all have names referring local geography, which suggests at least some of them were only set up to buy Hibs shares ... after all, what normal investment vehicle would be daft enough to buy shares in a Scottish football club expecting a return on them for its anonymous members?
Having said that, there's the concern ... the only way a big return could be possible is if for example the land ER is built on was desired for construction and the owner received an offer he could't or didn't want to, refuse .... that would put anybody owning those 11,857,000 shares in a good position if money is their only concern.
I exempt 'North Castle Street' from this theory who amusingly own 10 shares :greengrin
I know one nominee who is a Hibby through and through who went for nominee route because he didn't want too many to know he was spending even more money on Hibs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
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I'm sure that's the case with a few of them mate ... but not all 20 I would imagine. There's a few with over a million shares and you don't spend that amount out of sentimentality, or if you did surely you would want folk to know about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
I tend to agree with this ... If buying shares is not possible then perhaps HSL could or should reinvent itself as an AberDNA style scheme ... though they would still have to administer the shares held by HSL which could complicate the issue I presume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Green
Why is there any need to set up a new body? Seems an utter waste of time and effort when there is something there already that is funnelling donations and is able if need be to switch to buy any future shares that are later available. Indeed has still got some reserves in place for that eventuality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Green
These folks wanting the major shareholder to effectively suddenly give away his shareholding in return for zilch just because a previous extremely philanthropic major shareholder had done so as part of an exit strategy are utterly unrealistic.
If HSL, as a shareholder, put in funds then it makes a case for the other shareholders to do so in a way that straightforward fan donations don’t but either way without share in exchange to all parties it is still unrealistic. Even more unrealistic is the idea that shares would be made available to HSL alone. So, I’d not be holding my breath for Ron or any of the other secretive shareholders hiding behind nominees putting in any money. A glance at the US and indeed global stock markets might suggest that even Ron’s personally funded line of credit to the club might not be so readily offered.
Keep things simple - you want to support the club and you can, then buy a season ticket or donate via HSL. If you don’t want to either due to non available share being non available or because you don know what you’d be buying then don’t.
I'm not aware of anyone asking for the major shareholder to give away his shareholding for zilch but equally it seems strange to ask for HSL (with donors who have far less money) to give away their money for zilch in return. It is reasonable when providing capital to a company that you get something in return - usually shares. If Hibs need money badly they will either borrow or issue further shares. HSL could lend Hibs money with a interest rate to preserve the real value of the loan if Hibs are in need. That loan could always be converted to shares or written off in the future but gives HSL some protection in the shorter term.Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolm
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Deleted. Replied to wrong post!
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Yes, potentially an issue but the way the shares are currently structured I'm not overly bothered about the various motives of some of the nominees, unless it's Petrie[emoji6]Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
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Not all of it but giving away part of it for zilch is exactly what Tom farmer was doing when shares were issued to HSL - the same seems expected/inferred here. Closely related is the thought that because he owns the most shares then RG should be ponying up.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeithMike
I agree that HSL could in theory offer a Loan but I’d be surprised if they could be able to do so under their rules. Part of me says why would they want it back and the rest of me says why complicate a relatively simple arrangement that currently functions by feeding in donations without strings with a reserve (that they have just offered up in part as emergency funding) that relates to a goal that is no longer attainable under current scenario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
If I read that correctly, HSL had £24k in the cash as at June 2019. This is based on 65% of the funds held then being equal to £16000.
I thought HSL had a lot more funds but will most likely be wrong!
To my mind, give all the remaining funds to the club as £8k would not make any difference to the overall picture.
To be clear, I’ve no idea how much HSL raise or indeed hold in cash just now but I was surprised at the figures.
I think what STF did with shares is quite irrelevant to the current situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolm
Regardless of how fans donated cash to the club, I would ask why should they see something for their investment. Ron has been in the door for 9 months. Personally speaking he's getting nowt from me. I would expect him to manage his business effectively and hope he has the resources needed to operate comfortably. If he can't do that then the fans will step up to the plate in the same way FOH have done across the other side of the city.
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS
Yes irrelevant but that does not seemingly stop the expectation that this precedence is repeated. Judging how anyone could run the business at the moment would be a challenging standard to test against but hey ho the whole world has this challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
However, once again there is an expectation that RG rather Hibs has the resources to operate comfortably. :confused: RG’s resources are what we ought to consider irrelevant with it being an unexpected bonus if he can help out further. Meantime it seems at least 1000 fans see that Hibs (not RG) may not have resources to operate comfortably in the near future. Many of those may see this being more than the purchase of a ticket but a contribution to a community without the need for a free scarf, share or a free cup ticket that other forms of scheme may offer. :greengrin
i got the email.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel 1875
ive been saying since then, they need to be screaming it from the rooftops to try and get more fans signed up.
Jim, how much has been donated now?Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficialHSL
Last i seen was £770,000, but it's not been update in a wee while.
Agree with this 100% anything to help our club survive this horrible time
Well done HSL
B
HS is a good means if giving money to help our club survive this crisis and after it us over.
G
You mean HSL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
As I understand it us now known as Hiberian Supporters.
Mixed messages then;Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
Our mailing address is:
Hibernian Supporters Limited
12 Albion Terrace
Edinburgh, Lothian EH7 5QG
United Kingdom
A very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
I prefer calling them HSL IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
I think they are still regesterd as HSL but changed to HS Hibernian Supporters in general day to day dealingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
Stephen Dunn steps down.