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General discussion for ticket prices and opinions. This is not a thread bashing the club.
Does anybody else agree that ticket prices in general, across the top flight of Scottish football are getting out of hand? In 5 years or less its likely we will be paying £40+ for a single ticket for Cat A games.
Current adult away prices
Hearts away £32/£34
Rangers away £32
Celtic away £33/£30
Hibs at home to any of these teams
£32
There really should be a cap. £20 is plenty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Yip,
it is not often I agree with the great unwashed Celtc mob but £20s plenty in my opinion.
PS Also agree with the great washed Hermit:thumbsup:
I don’t go to many away games but yes it does sound a bit steep. I have a home ST so never really notice individual prices for games. I can afford it so never really think about it I just accept it as the going rate, it must be hard for folk who take one or two children though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linlithgowhibbie
Fans are seen as cash cows B, clubs know some fans will pay over the odds regardless and will cash in on it. Its really not fair.
I agree that it's overpriced but what can the clubs do? With very little TV money (compared to England) the clubs rely heavily on gate receipts. Cut those by 30% and we'll be competing with the 4th tier of the English league for players.
You'll get stick for this but I broadly agree.
Scottish football finds itself in a situation in which mismanagement of the media and commercial sides of the game has seen fans asked to contribute evermore just to maintain the current standards. That goes beyond ticket pricing and into the likes of AberDNA, FOH, the Well Society and HSL.
Taking into account my HSL subscription, seaso ticket and attendance at approx one away game a month I'm shelling out in the region of £80 a month on Hibs, as if next season my bairn will be going with me so add on a few pounds more, and that's before an essential like transport and non essentials like a pint. Others will spend far, far more.
It's not sustainable to keep asking fans to dig deeper but in turn it simply has to be because there is no mega money TV or sponsorship deal on the horizon.
Fairness, whats that got to do with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Clubs set a budget, including commercial / sponsorship / ticketing income.
And with that income they pay the staff.
If you want Hibs to charge £20 per match, then the quality of player will suffer (I know, seems unlikely, but there you are).
Until / unless we get a league / tv deal in line with some other comparable sized countries, then this is a pointless "If only I was dating Claudia Schiffer" kind of argument mate.
I've just paid £40 for cup final ticket for Villa v City. That was the cheapest and it is in level 5 (top tier) of Wembley. Prices below.
CategoryAdult* 17 – 21 Yrs *U17s & Over 65*
Premium Level 2 ticket £150 N/A N/A
Level 2 £125 N/A N/A
Category 1 £100 £75 £50
Category 2 £90 £67.50 £45
Category 3 £72 £54 £36
Category 4 £56 £42 £28
Category 5 £40 £30 £20
Clubs need revenue to pay the players. And don't forget, a significant number of fans pay concession prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Football is too expensive in scotland.
Whats the point of this post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Yep. It really is VERY basic economics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
To show the prices in England for a competition that nobody really cares about going to. I don't think Man City will sell out. Still thousands of tickets left and its gone to a general sale to anyone with a purchase history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Agree Billy. We get robbed by clubs.
You are not wrong, but see mine above - until / unless other sources of income arrive (across the entire league / tv deal) then this aint changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
You may have been in Molde, Norway is a hideously expensive country and yet the tickets were £10.
That tells you something about how the league / SFA sells our game here.
Sometimes you need to take a breath..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
If you want Hibs to charge £20 a ticket, we will be in the Championship or League 1.
It is the league and tv deals that are robbing us - and while the clubs "run" the league, I think we have been sold short by whoever agrees these deals centrally, not the clubs themselves.
I blame Graeme Souness he arrived on these shores said we got our fitba too cheap in Scotland started his revolution f#>ked off back down south and nothing was the same again
Anyway £22 for an adult for ICT is far too dear HIBS
See you behind the goals 😁
Demand for football tickets is price inelastic. :smug: Halfing the price wont double the crowd.
There is very little business sense in reducing prices from their current level for clubs in Scotland.
Will be interesting to see how/where we have absorbed having no sponsorship this season in next years accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
It’s not a a sustainable long term approach from those that run our game and our clubs, to under sell our game and continue with an old school reactive mentality as to having the fans dig ever deeper just to stand still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Surprised nobody has said they paid £100 for Rolling Stones and £50 for Lion King so SPL is a bargain. That's what usually happens...
Being so close to England is the problem, inflated wages, inflated prices, lack of decent TV deal. That plus the fact Scotland just pretty much copy anything England do regarding football. For the standard of football we pay way over the odds to compared to other countries with a similar standard on offer.
Season tickets are ok value TBF. It's away games that are getting out of hand. We're a tinpot league though. Some clubs can't survive without the OF 4 times a season so ticket reductions will never happen.
I can live with ticket prices as much as i moan about it. Playing second fiddle to TV companies pisses me off especially seeing as we (scottish fitba fans) give our clubs FAR much more money than Sky/BT/Premier etc do. 4.30pm on Sunday - yipeee
The clubs need to maximise the money they get from gates it’s natural for them to do this. The problem is it’s a balancing act. Charge too much crowds fall, charge too little and the product on the field gets worse. This is especially pertinent in Scotland as gate receipts are the largest form of income. We’re at the edge of pricing now, it’s just affordable for most and most don’t object to paying it. The problem facing clubs now and which I think is why we’re seeing a lot of work going into finding other sources of income is the inevitable turndown in the UK post brexit. This will cause a lot of people to no longer afford football. While I agreed with the OP to a point, I’m not sure what the solution is. If there’s less money in football the product quality falls and crowds fall. Alas this is they way it is, there is no easy solution. I wish it was as simple as £20 is plenty but it’s not.
If £20 will see us in the championship or league 1, how much more on top on the current prices do we need to pay to finish higher than 4th once in a blue moon, never mind finish 3rd?Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
The published accounts are never detailed enough to show that much detail. Looks to me like your looking for another excuse to moan.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
£25 for Hearts, Rangers & Celtic games and £20 for rest of League games would be fair.
It was a reply to “basic economics”. I was merely asking what the quantifiable detriment is having no sponsorship this season, compared to folk talking about the quantifiable detriment of lowering prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Yep, but we could forget any faint hope we may have of signing the likes of McNulty on a "permanent" basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carheenlea
100%. Its madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
In an ideal world, £20 would be fine. Unfortunately in a world where our ticket prices make up a massive part of our income, therefore impact massively on our budget then we don’t have a choice. Our crowds are also holding up massively so dropping prices would only result in us losing fortunes compared to now. We aren’t going to expand our stadium so there really isn’t any requirement for us to try and entice 6/7000 more fans through the door as we are already up beyond 16000.
If our attendances start to drop due to failing on the park then the board will need to find ways to galvanise the fan base and get folk back through the door, until then it would be self defeating.
For those saying drop the prices now, as the clubs finances currently are, would they accept a massive drop in the quality of player we bring in?
I agree G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimendhibs
:aok:
We are going to reach such a point anyway whether it is this year or in a decade. There comes a tipping point at which fans simply can't afford to pay anymore. If the trend for clubs asking fans for more money continues and the business model is ever more reliant on it then it becomes increasingly unsustainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Edinburgh is one of the 10 most expensive places to rent a home in the UK and that's increasing. It's not a cheap place to live and football is ultimately a luxury that can be cut.
Scottish football as a whole needs to look beyond the fans for increasing revenue streams. Simply adding a couple of pound to a cat A ticket every other year isn't a long term solution to a problem that has been evident for the best part of 2 decades.
👏👏Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
On a personal level the games are too expensive for me.
I've been to 1 away game this season and even had to miss home cup ties because I simply couldn't afford tickets for me and my daughter.
As for the argument about how we (Scottish football) need to get a 'proper' TV deal to help end the rise in ticket prices.....
Well, how's that worked out in the richest League in the world 🤔 ?
I agree. I'm well aware of how much more expensive it's become in relative terms compared to pre Sky TV & Bosman prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
I don't know where Scottish clubs are going to magic any substantial money up from though.
Google 'inflation calculator UK'
East Stand season ticket 1999/00 - £240
£419.05 in today's money. 2019/20 slightly cheaper.
Yep, it's not the fault of the clubs as they are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
The SPL TV and Setanta fiascos loom large though....
£20 entry would mean no Doidge, no McNulty, no Allan, no Docherty .........no John McGinn no Scottish Cup.
If we want players of that quality we need to pay what we do.
With only 5.5 million people in Scotland the TV deal and commercial income will never be massive so our clubs spending power will continue to come predominately from gate money.
If you want to reduce your matchday outlays dont buy food at the game, dont buy alcohol etc.
Could save £50 by not buying a replica strip etc etc.
100% of your gate money goes to Hibs so it is the single best way you can support your club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMurdoch
Not in the case of cup matches it doesn't.
We’re going to cap rail prices. Unfortunately it will mean people losing their jobs or facing a hefty pay cut. Alternatively we could reduce the number of trains and give a poorer service. You decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Attending a game of football is a luxury, not a necessity.
So every club will seek to maximise its income to provide it with the funds needed to attract the best players it can and that means that fans have to pay the price at the gate. There's not much of a saving with a season ticket either.
If it gets too expensive for the entertainment offered, then fans can stop paying. They may miss attending games but life moves on and there are other things to do in life. Been there, done that, didn't come back until my circumstances changed.
but you get your wish for paying £20 for a ticket :wink:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
P.S. Inverness are skint so their half of the profits will help them out so win win.
Absolutely they're too high.
Just tried to get tickets in the Man City end but because I always buy tickets in my name I am only entitled to 1 ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
I am trying to get 4 so I can take the wee ones down if anyone has an account with Man City who has bought tickets before and happy for me to add you onto my friends & family list so I can get more please give me a PM.
Cheers
I agree with the principle HC, but the accountants wouldn’t with an operating loss of £700k.
I know it’s not as bad as that actually looks but the club need the money and they can charge it because of supply and demand.
Look at the upcoming derby for example, £32 a skull and it will still sell out - if it will be a bawhair off.
Fans vote with their feet against the old firm though, same price but I can’t remember the last time we sold out against them - the 5-5 game against rangers maybe?
Clubs have experimented before with cheaper tickets and has it worked? Motherwell were the one that stick as being a disaster, but I remember going to £15/5 Scottish cup games and the attendances being no different to equivalent league fixtures.
I see what you did there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojock
What do you think HC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hailhail22
I have used my one allocated ticket ticket for myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMurdoch
Go for it, I’d be ring fenced. :greengrin
Just saw a photo of a Union Berlin home ticket against Leverkusen today. 16,Euro [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
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Freeze prices for the next 5 years then see?
There you gohttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...20756a31e3.jpg
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If you think £20 is plenty I hope you enjoy watching Championship ( or lower) football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Surely if there was a cap then we wouldn’t really be financially disadvantaged (in relation to our competitors) as other teams would have reduced revenue as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby
In which case prepare to watch Faroes League level football in terms of quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Say Hi Boomer to me if you like but the sense of entitlement some folk exhibit today is staggering.
I want to drive a Ferrari but they cost £s squidilions so I content my self driving a humble asian built SUV. I dont expect Ferrari to have their sale price capped at the same level as a Skoda.
If you can't afford something don't buy it or save up and buy it a little less often.
As has rightly been pointed out elsewhere in this thread football tickets are Price Inelastic.
If £20 will see us in the championship or lower, how much more on top of the current prices do we need to pay to finish 4th more than once in a blue moon, never mind finish 3rd?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby
We'd be in 3rd now if half of all those PH draws were wins, which I think we had had JR in post would have beenQuote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
Maybe so, but a hypothetical scenario doesn’t answer my question. How much more do we need to pay on top of what we do now to finish 3rd for the first time in 15 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby
I’d agree that Category A games are over-priced on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antifa Hibs
However, I’ve generally been paying £19-£23 for Bolton away games in League One this season so it’s probably about right for Category B teams. Similarly, second tier rugby league games are generally £18-£20 and that’s for a largely part time division.
Is your question not hypothetical too? My point is cut our resources we will slide down to a level matching those resources. Increase the resource and you will progress to a level comensurate with those resources until you hit the ugly sister glass ceiling where no amount of additional sustainable resource will compete. Every now and again you'll punch above your resource weight but realistically there are limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
So I disagree with your previous point that we’d be in the championship if there was a cap on tickets. We’d still have one of the biggest budgets in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby
I agree that the overall standard might drop, if there was less revenue. That is based on the same number of folk turning up, consistently cheaper prices might lead to more folk turning up though with more bodies meaning there isn’t a loss?
I agree it is a hypothetical question, but thought it was still a fair one as it was you that had said £20 tickets would see us in the championship or below. The likes of Motherwell or Livingston this season, and St Johnstone’s and Hamilton’s sustained punching above their weight shows it’s as important, if not more so, to make sure you spend what you have well rather than simply how much you take in. Clubs are going to have to start thinking of other ways to grow revenue than just expecting fans to dig ever deeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby
Thats the point about price elasticity though mate. If you halved the price of tickets you would need to get twice as many people through the gate to make no loss, but that just simply won't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
People come to the football through loyalty, habit and the lack of alternative competition(ie you only support one team).
People are saying prices are too high but the evidence suggests otherwise - last 2 seasons have seen Hibs largest average crowds for 50 odd years, proving that the price is clearly not too high.
Outwith Hearts and the Ugly Sisters, we probably sell 16000 tickets in total for a league match. Using the adult price for the Livingston game as a guide, 16k x £23 = £368k so cutting the price to £20 means we would need to get 18,400 fans to turn up if the gate receipts are to be the same. Not all tickets are at adult prices, but as the other prices would be reduced pro rata the logic is unchanged.
Are 2400 people really refusing to attend because of £3?
It’s £23 now to watch a run of the mill game against Livingston, and £32 for a derby. How much will those fixtures cost in 2/3/5 etc years? I am lucky enough that I can afford to attend all games, I mainly just attend home games because I’ve a young family, but over the last few years there’s been a number of cup games I’ve thought we’re far too expensive and not value for money so decided not to go. I think that will be a recurring theme for me, if I don’t feel the price reflects what’s on offer I’ll do something else instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
how do the normal walk up prices fair, especially for Cat A?Quote:
Originally Posted by King Arthur
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
I think we have already hit the point at which fans will now pick and choose due to ticket prices, means the clubs are now starting to lose some regulars, something really needs to be done about pricing.
You've just highlighted why prices won't be coming down. A derby is far more expensive than a run of the mill game, yet it sells out. People are willing to pay those prices even if others can't/won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
On the numbers I used, missing two or three games a season will cover the difference between £20 and £23. Then again, I paid £385 for my season ticket this year, which works out at just over £20 per game, so it's the walk ups who are affected and they probably pick which games to attend anyway.
Those crowds are largely down to season tickets though. And a lot of those season ticket holders are failing to turn up regularly now as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
I think my season ticket was £380 so averages to £20 a game. The problem with prices comes for walk ups and/or away games when, on occasion, it’s costing significantly more.
Season ticket value is fine IMO but I think we need to do more to attract people through the door on a one off basis, particularly folk with kids. We all know that there has been a big difference between attendance and tickets sold at ER this season.
Take your point but then less incentive to get a season ticket if you cut prices for walk ups....Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
For most events there are a variety of prices aimed at different market sectors. i would like to see pricing at easter road at 15 pounds up to 40 pounds depending on the area of the ground . filling in one corner could create a new price point seating. using part of the south stand. Having a proper standing section another price point, behind the goals another, one edge of the east stand could be cheaper . Some could be more comfy seats or include food brought to your seat at half time . another area could unnumbered seating for groups of friends.
That way the total income will remain the same, but wont exclude poorer people from attending. I know this would require more sectioning or stewarding, but its done at other sporting events.
We are in an era now where the vast majority now buy season tickets. We no longer rely on the walk ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass
Hibs have 13k+ season ticket holders whereas in the good old days of average crowds of about 8k you would be lucky if we were selling 1k seasons, and most of them were people who could afford the posh seats in the old centre and north wing stands. Very few were for the shed or terracing. Back in the day we also had variable walk up pricing and it didn't increase the crowds.
People now in the main choose to subscribe and attend when they want. Different times different model.
Are people buying the tickets?
If so, the price is fine.
Appears to be more empty seats at ER weekly this season with ‘attendances’ skewed by season ticket numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
They are 'fine' at the moment because of the afterglow of a couple of good seasons. If we use the same argument they weren't 'fine' before those seasons. As an example in season 11/12 we had home attendance v Celtic of 12523, Aberdeen - 8972, Rangers - 11380 and Hearts - 15013. The same fixtures in 17/18 attracted 20193, 19038, 20057 and 20165.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
Should this season fizzle out it will be interesting to see how next seasons attendances compare to the above. The competitiveness of pricing has little to do with football attendance; if we are playing well fans will pay whatever to watch the team. If we aren't you could charge a fiver and people won't turn up.
I think people are, intentionally or otherwise, missing the wider argument about the sustainability of the current cost of football when coupled with the increasing cost of living. Would lowering prices increase crowds substantially? Probably not. Is football an expensive hobby? It's hard to argue otherwise.
The club would need to find alternative sources of income to subsidise any reduction in ticket price.
We seem to be struggling to even find a shirt sponsor willing to pay a decent amount of money, so I'm not hopeful about finding other sources.
Maybe the Fans could come up with suggestions for these other income sources. I realise a lot of stupid/humorous suggestions would be made... but somebody might just come up with something workable.
For example, how could we make use of various parts of the stadium on non match days? There's loads of unused space inside the stands, e.g. the former Executive Boxes, and 'Behind The Goals' in the Famous Five Stand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
If people are buying season tickets then the price is fine, whether or not they then use those season tickets every game.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass
My first full season at ER (1979-80), the cheapest adult price was £1.10. Using the inflation calculator, that works out at £6.50 today
The cheapest walk-up price at ER is now £23........ a 254% increase
In my earlier posts, I acknowledged that I think season tickets offer decent value, it averages to £20ish a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
Walk up and away tickets don’t offer particularly good value IMO. And if people aren’t bothering to use their season tickets, there has to be a big threat to the renewal numbers?
But then lowering the walk up prices for the sake of 2/3k empty seats then totally diminishes the value of the season ticket. Until such time the club start to lose season ticket holders drastically, then the pricing is fine. In an ideal world all pricing drops, however it’s the results that bring people along and keep them there, drop the revenue by dropping prices and you drop the ability to buy quality players which impacts results and reduces crowds anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C