http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...ed_a_disgrace/
Fun or food? :dunno:
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http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...ed_a_disgrace/
Fun or food? :dunno:
Borders roads are quiet enough that there's no real need to have closed roads for cycling on, and the sportives there that are on open roads are much cheaper to enter (£20-£25 against £60-£70). On balance I'm with the elderly blokes, though they should have used bread sticks rather than drain rods.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Free link (without any Latin in the report): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-borders-road/
If you've got 2,000 cyclists you can't have that on open roads. Smaller sportives, yes, but not an event with 2,000 people.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
I understand the farmers issues, sometimes harvest can be a stressful time trying to find a window in the weather and if you have to do certain things on a certain day then it just has to be done. Maybe the event organisers should think about running it another weekend when it isn't such a busy time for farmers?
However the way they protested it is not on and potentially very dangerous, I'm sure the police will be knocking on their doors pretty soon for a chat.
I'm doing the Glasgow-Edinburgh ride on Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Bread sticks (and bananas) would be most welcome, thanks.:greengrin
First Tour of the Borders (2013) was on open roads. It's a while since I did it, but don't think Pedal for Scotland (then 8,000+) was entirely closed (though it may be now).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio sledge
If the 45-ish-miler, it's mostly flat and easy and there's enough feed stations along the way to ensure that you'll end up heavier than you started.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Most of PFS is on closed (country) roads. There's a wee issue with the roads getting out of Glasgow, and through the likes of Cheesetown, where the ride has to stop for traffic sometimes. Imagine if it was in France at harvest time; they'd be out with their slurry-hoses.:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Hmmm,.... :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
:devil:
Heaven forbid they may have to consider the disruption their little day of fun has on the rest of the selfish world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio sledge
You lot are screwing up me getting to the event I'm going to. Get your own <beep beep> bananas! :coffee: :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I did the Tour o' the Borders last Sunday but didn't see these two loonies. Everyone at the side of the road that I saw was pretty supportive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
My thoughts - the weather has been very mixed and the harvest decides many farmers' income for the year. Sports events are SO very important - everything else has to take second place for them. Closing roads for a cycle race this time of year in a farming area like the Borders is inconsiderate to say the least. I don't like the idea of the old boys going after them with drain rods, but I can understand why they did. I'm sure none of the cyclists would appreciate farmers obstructing THEM going about their daily work.
There's an annual 'fun run' in my area that causes any amount of disruption to the roads. There's supposed to be proper supervision - non-existent - and cyclists aren't supposed to ride more than two abreast - they ride in large numbers right out to the white line and beyond - and getting anywhere by road that day is a nightmare. I've even seen an ambulance (lights flashing) trying unsuccessfully to get out onto the main road and no one giving way.
One of my neighbours in the Highlands (where another of these events took place annually) had been in the Commandos during WW2. HE recommended cheese-wire. It worked with the Germans, after all ....
I think I might have had a wee accident on a blind corner with a muck-spreader. :devil:
Yeah, because we never see farmer's tractors holding up rush-hour traffic...Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddie
By the way, Borders Council wouldn't allow the roads to be closed if the cycling event (it wasn't a race) wasn't worth it to the area financially.
I've yet to feel any financial gain from major sporting events in my county. I look forward to my eventual windfall with much joy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
I'm the same with the Edinburgh Festival. My share must have got lost in the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Hijack alert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
How long is it and how difficult?
Asking for a friend.....
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Tell your pal that it was around 5 hours for a 'normal'! It was brutal, especially the Wall of Talla. Way tougher than the Etape Caledonia, if that helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
He says "**** that".....I mean "thank you".Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
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It's a bit longer than Pedal for Scotland, and a good bit hillier. Talla is a complete beast of a climb but you won't get disqualified for dismounting and walking up some or most of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Once you've done a sportive in the Borders (Tour of the Borders or Tour of Tweeddale, which is much the same route but £40-£50 cheaper; or the Skinny Tweed which is the shortest and has most official cake stops per mile of the three) you'll likely never go back to Pedal for Scotland.
Cycling in the Borders will take your breath away, literally (at first) and otherwise (always)!
Cheers for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
The Skinny seems like my next target. I was buzzing after last year's PFS, which is the longest I'd ever ridden. I didn't find it easy, but easier than I'd expected.
And, after watching Contador this afternoon.........[emoji13]
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http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...race-1-4556917
Police are looking for someone who goes under the street-name Snooky.....
:greengrin
Agreed. The reservoir/valley right before Talla was stunning.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
Beefster, what do you mean by "worth it to the area"? If you mean "people living within the area", who specifically are they? In this case, certainly not the farmers. And the Borders economy is largely an agricultural economy, surely?
And btw - farmer's tractors are subject to the same laws as the rest of the traffic, and mostly they're at work, or going to or from work - in other words, they have to be where they are at any given time. I can't recollect any of my farmer friends deciding to take the John Deere and a 10-ton cattle float out for a joyride on a Sunday afternoon.
The people who are benefitting from this event clearly aren't the farmers trying to get their work done - bring in their harvest or move their livestock at a very busy time of the year when the weather tends to be unsettled and pressure is mounting. Loss of a field of grain can mean the difference between a decent year and a disaster in farming.
So maybe this cycling event benefits cyclists? Local dignitaries who get their photos in the papers? Vendors of high-energy drinks and protein bars? On-line suppliers of fluorescent skin-tight apparel? Chemists selling haemorrhoid cream? It's a farming area. How does one benefit the area but not the people who work there?
There's an event that takes place every year (on a Sunday when no one ever goes anywhere, of course) around the Caldercruix-Slamannan area. Every year it causes great inconvenience to the locals. There are supposed to be marshals to ensure the obstruction's kept to a minimum - I never saw any. The cyclists are supposed to obey the normal rule of the road - most of them don't seem to know the rule of the road, and the others show no sign of paying any heed to it at all.
What the event does is it feeds a hostility that exists in many people's minds against cyclists. The impression given is of a large number of people taking over the roads without the slightest concern for anyone else's convenience or needs. I've seen an ambulance with it's flashing lights on trying to get out of a side road and being totally ignored by these people. Personally, when I'm in the car in traffic and I see that, if no one else stops to let them out, I do. Don't you?
The irony is that there's an off-road track for walkers and cyclists running from Airdrie to Bathgate which could easily be closed to pedestrians for that one Sunday, but cyclists' groups insist on using the A89 and other local roads. I used to use the walkway when I lived in the area to walk my dog. I always had the dog under full control; I kept to one side of the hard surface, and I kept my eyes and ears open for other users. I early lost count of the number of times a cyclist or cyclists would speed past from behind me with no warning given and many of them within two or three inches of my shoulder. Usually with a demand for me to "Get that f*****g dog under control", or to "F*** off, this is a cycle track", which it isn't - not exclusively. Those who gave a timely warning call or rang their bell caused no problem at all, but they were very much the minority.
Half a dozen mountain-bikers once almost creamed me and my poor dog on a logging track up a hill in Sutherland. I was at walking speed, and my dog was with me and under control. They were travelling at high speed and not looking where they were going. I mentioned this later to my Church Officer, a local man of very good character who had served in Special Services during WW2. (He invaded Northern France about 2 years before the rest of the Allied Armies and made himself a total pain in the backside to the Wehrmacht, actually.) His remedy for the problem? Cheese-wire. It worked for the Germans, he said, in the War.
Now I'm basically a peaceable guy; I have friends who are keen cyclists, and I don't cut cyclists up when I'm driving. I give them space and slow down when passing them. I really do try to be tolerant and co-operative.
But there are times, just now and then, when I find myself wondering whether my old friend wasn't right after all. :wink:
On yer bike. I take that as a personal at-tack. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Besides, I'm more a "dig-a-6-foot-trench" man :wink:
The council has to okay the event and the road closures. Presumably they don't do that for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddie
As I said before, the Festival is a massive pain in the nuts for a lot of folk who live or work in Edinburgh. Most are sensible enough to realise that bringing money into the area and promoting tourism is important to the well-being of an area though.
Don't have the relevant figures* (sorry) but big sportives like Tour o the Borders and Etape Caledonia attract folk from far enough way to need to stay overnight. Shirley tourism is a reasonably substantial part of the Borders economy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddie
* For whole of Scotland, "£106m" here: http://mediacentre.visitscotland.org...lution-2098699
and "£345m" here: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/new...ottish-economy
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Those links refer to visitors touring the country by cycle - not 'events' requiring the closure of roads to accommodate lots of cyclists all going the same way at the same time. I lived in the Highlands for 15 years - I'm well aware of the growth in the number of tourists travelling round Scotland on bikes. They don't demand the exclusive use of the roads all to themselves.
Properly organised, charity 'fun' days and - what would you call them - rallies? - shouldn't be a major problem either. The problem is that the ones we're talking about here aren't properly organised and cause major disruption and aggravation to the people actually living in the areas concerned.
I would seriously doubt that there can be any economic advantages accruing from the 'fun run' I'm talking about taking place annually through the Caldercruix area - it's just an 8-hour pain in the backside for the locals.
I don't think roads should be closed for cycle rides at all, so no argument from me there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddie
I do generally spend money in Peebles when I do a sportive from there.
What's the event you refer to - is it this?
As for cyclists riding too close to you on cycle paths, got to side with the cyclists there. It's great fun to 'buzz' old folks like yourself. I often unclip and kick their walking sticks away from them too. Conversely, when I'm out walking myself and a nearby cyclist is dressed offensively garishly, I hit him with my stick.
I haven't had anybody stay at my house so no economic benefit received by me - ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Plenty disruption though.
It sounds like your marketing needs a bit more zip. I generally look on Booking.com so maybe something to consider. If you offer a free cooked breakfast, I'm confident that you'll get a guest one year.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Many (though not all - some are too concerned about the extra weight) cyclists carry some cash with them when they go on long rides. If personal economic benefit is your main concern then why not mug a couple not too far into the course, before they've had a chance to spend it on a coffee stop?Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
In this light, what you call 'disruption' may be viewed as 'a steady stream of opportunities for personal gain'.
Those high-end bikes could fetch a bit on EBay.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
I'm not sure what the market in used Lycra is like, though.
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Yer on Beefster :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
My house is the one with the tacks outside. :greengrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
No idea - can't get the link to work.
I have no problem with cyclists and even if I were a lot younger I wouldn't cycle around North Lanarkshire - the way some drivers behave towards folks on bikes I'm surprised there aren't fatalities. My problem starts when someone decides to bring large numbers (sometimes very large numbers) into one area for an 'event' - that's when life gets very difficult for the locals. And it doesn't commend cycling or cyclists to them. It just causes frustration and gives people hostile to cyclists an excuse for sounding off. And annoys folks like me who believe it or not might just be won over.
It's not helped when the event's advertised as 'for charity' - I'm afraid I take that as a handy way of deflecting criticism or complaint. After all, it's for charity - how dare anyone voice anything negative at all. There MUST be ways of benefitting the charity without clogging up the roads and streets?
It's not a 'cycle path', btw. The signs clearly indicate that it's a walkway and cycle path - pedestrians have rights on it as well as cyclists, but far too many of the cyclists behave towards the walkers in exactly the same way as they complain motorists behave towards them. Recklessly, inconsiderately, and dangerously.
And it's not all about cyclists.
The first experience I had of this sort of thing (DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING! :devil:) was over 30 years ago in Edinburgh, involving one of the early Edinburgh marathons. The race was billed as starting around 11.00am. I was heading for East Lothian - I was helping out a colleague there, and was due at my destination at 10.30. I left the house in the west of Edinburgh just after 8.00am; I got to Jock's Lodge at about 8.30 to find the roads coned off and no way through. There was no one there but me and a polis who absolutely refused move a couple of cones to allow me across from the Meadowbank side to the Portobello side.
Half past eight on a Sunday morning - nobody around, and he threatens to arrest me - for obstruction! This was long before the days of the bypass. I finally got where I was going, very late. In that instance the 'rights' of the 'athletics community' over-rode everyone else's, apparently.
And please bear in mind that 'fun runs for cyclists' are only one category of 'community event' that closes roads and makes life intermittently unpleasant in NL - we also have those nice men and women 'walking' with their flute bands and accordion bands and so on through the summer months ...
I think I'm just TOTALLY PEE'D OFF by parades or rallies in any shape or form taking place on the on the public highway.
Folks who want to have a rally or a fun day should hire a freakin stadium.
:wink:
I was driving in the town last night in darkness and passed cyclists on the road with no lights at 3 different locations (from Colinton Road to George IV Bridge).
It would (of course :rolleyes:) be my fault had any of these Evel Knievels been hit. :crazy:
The exact same as if it were pedestrians walking in the road. You can't argue the rights & wrongs of unlit cycling with a dead cyclist, mental I know!Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
TBH, I'm not sure of what you're angle is, SG.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
However, I do agree that pedestrians with no front or rear lights do present a problem.
No angle, cyclists when on the road, by law must have lights when low or no natural daylight exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Ninja cyclists are not as prevalent as most people think but where they do exist they pose a hazard to themselves and other road users.
However, and this is what you may consider to be an angle but I'm genuinely not at the wind up; many road users don't have lights when they should (you'll notice a lot of cars with illegal/MOT failing lighting soon with the shortening days) but that doesn't make it OK to hit them. If I was driving and hit a car that had no lights do you think I'd be blame free?
As it approaches winter and the dark nights I worry for my neighbours who walk to the pub a mile away with no pavement or street lights. They wear dark clothes no torches and walk on the wrong side of the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Mental.
Quite so. Just used 'cycle path' as shorthand, to distinguish from 'road'. They're a bit of a melee in Edinburgh, tbh. I only really cycle on 'em very early in the morning, when dogwalkers seem to be universally top-of-the-range dogs-always-under-perfect-control types. Any other time of day the paths are just playgrounds for loose dogs, or blocked by stationary groups of auld wifies chatting away or young wifies with buggies chatting away. Prefer to take my chances with car drivers on real roads (and I'd say drivers are improving year by year in their attitudes to cyclists' rights to be on their roads which they've paid road tax for).Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddie
I'll sign your petition to stop unnecessary road closures. And you can add in closing the QFC for two days for pedestrians to take selfies on it.
I totally agree with you on this one, SG. The one-eyed vehicles on the road drive me nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
They seem to be oblivious to the dangers they cause all road users and pedestrians. I hefty fine should be imposed if it can be proved that it wasn't a bulb failure on that day/night.
It always scares me how many road & footway users are oblivious to how vulnerable they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Whether walking, cycling or driving I am constantly on the look out for situations of potential danger.
The drivers using phones, cyclists looking down a their feet and pedestians gazing into space. These people all think that the rest of the world will just avoid them, and they will - but when two of these space cadets meet...BANG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Absolutely!
I believe that 'taking selfies' has become a major cause of death in certain parts of the world. This seems to me to be the merciful operation of Providence in removing these folk from a world they aren't adapted to - or maybe just natural selection taking them out of the human gene pool?
My old doggie wasn't top of the range - she was a Border Collie of great character, which meant she was more intelligent by far than most of the humans she met in her all-too-short lifetime. But I can assure you she was under my control at all times. (Well, most of the time, tbh - she was a sucker for burgers and bacon sandwiches and would go off like a cruise missile if she caught their scent. Nobody's perfect.)
This isn't about 'cyclists' or 'drivers' or 'pedestrians' - it's about badly-planned and badly-timed 'fun events' and people who, whatever they're doing, lack any sense of consideration or empathy for other people.
I'm going to come clean now and admit that one of the problems with the pedestrian/cycle track at Caldercruix is that it stops at the western end of the village and only starts again towards the eastern end - because some of the residents objected to having it running along the back of their gardens. Given that one stretch of the track that does run behind some folks' gardens has become a night-time haunt for teenagers doing what teenagers do in the dark (mostly illegal, much of it insanitary, and the rest entirely immoral) with all the accompanying noise and disturbance and sense of threat that involves, one can understand the residents' concerns. BUT supposing one took the sensible option and organised the fun day I'm thinking off to take place on the track and off the roads, you still have the problem of what to do with literally thousands of cyclists from age 3 to 93, clubs, families, groups of friends, a typical mix of the Scottish population, when they reach the village and have to travel that 600-800 yards along the village streets.
Someone in the Planning Department probably thought, "Ach, it'll be OK. What could possibly go wrong?"
Not that I really believe in the existence of North Lanarkshire's Planning Department. I reckon they're in the same file as mermaids, the mothman, the chupacabra and the Loch Ness Monster.
Almost skelped next to my abode by a cyclist with no lights, dressed in a black hoodie, whooring down the footpath. He flew past right in front of me - luckily I was two full steps short of being mincemeat.
That's awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
A lot of people paid a lot of money for that, and the wee scrote couldn't do his job right.........
[emoji48]
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:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Or you could have said....
'Wow, that could have been me , but unfortunately I don't cycle down your way"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...tland-41282001
Both sides of the coin in this article. Fair dos, except I still haven't received one penny from the "millions of pounds" these events have brought into the local economy. In fact, they cause quite a bit of disruption to my everyday life. However, I suppose they're having lots of fun. Who really cares about the misery they cause to the hoi polloi. :wink:
Reasonably balanced article thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
I did Tour of the Borders as well as the PoppyScotland race yesterday. The PoppyScotland event started & finished in Prestonpans. It was an open road event unlike Tour of Borders which was closed road. From a cyclists perspective both were excellent mainly due to quality of routes and the stunning scenery on offer on both routes as well as favourable weather. We have so much to show off in our countryside.
I can't personally claim to have put money into either local economy but I did see and hear plenty people talk of staying locally in hotels night before both events. Plenty of eg English cycling groups taking part at both events. Also PoppyScotland have raised £36k on way to their target of £50k.
Hope the balance can be struck between showing off countryside, hosting these events and keeping locals happy.
Could never prove it by stats but willing to wager that there are as many daft cyclists as there are daft drivers as % of total.
I did the PoppyScotland yesterday too. Probably enjoyed it more than Tour o' the Borders. Hope you enjoyed!Quote:
Originally Posted by ano hibby
Nice, but I don't own a hotel.Quote:
Originally Posted by ano hibby
Probably only because you can’t get out of your house on a daily basis because of the ****ing cyclists.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
And hotels in your locality don't pay rates? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Yes, and oddly enough their rates are the same whether the cyclists stay or not. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
It's not just about rates, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Take Innerleithen as an example in point. Were it not for the cycling facilities there, the local economy would be so much poorer.
Businesses that currently thrive might not be there. Hence no rates.... no VAT.... no direct taxes.
People currently employed might not be so. Hence less tax and NI...less Council Tax.. less spending power...more drain on the public purse.
All of which says to me that, cyclist or not, there is a financial benefit to all of us.
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I really shouldn't get into discussions with people who can blow me out the water with facts. :greengrin :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I enjoyed it but definitely at limits of my endurance (middle route).Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
It's an odd one but cycling for 5 hours you'd expect to lose weight but the combination of chocolate coated honeycomb, flapjack, caffeinated gels, malt loaf, toast & jam & energy bar meant I put on a few pounds!!