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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-fife-38170966
Anybody else think that RBS are using the online banking as a convenient excuse?
They closed a branch near me saying that walk-in customers were down 11%.
What about the rest? Did someone at a management meeting ask, "How can we pi$$ off 89% of our customers in one locality in one stroke?"
I find their partronising adverts galling now. "We're with you every day, We're the Royal Bank for Scotland" - eh, no you're not.
I think you have misinterpreted the use of percentages in this article.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
They recently closed the Broxburn branch so now it's either Newbridge or Livi. Pain in the a**.
Cost cutting, simple as that really. Interest rate forecasts are low so with income hard to come by, costs will have to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
I'm surprised the Chesser branch is being closed though because customers of the shandon branch were diverted there not so long ago.
You have misunderstood the figures quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Given the total shambles that RBS have been, even before the crash with a series of mega fines for shafting their customers, I'm surprised they have any customers left.
Last year the Bank of England thought they were crap and over the last 12 months they've ... errr ... not got any better!
I know a load of folk will say what about all the jobs but with the continued millions being lost on a monthly basis you really have to ask what's the point of keeping it going? Just give it to a bank that knows what they're doing.
Bank branches are the same as post offices...victims of transformational change.
A large branch network used to be an asset...now it's largely just a large cost base losing money so I'm not surprised to see more branches go.
RBS are in a downward spiral, the problem being that the aggressive acquisitions continued way beyond post 2008 when lessons were supposed to have been learnt. ABN/AMRO could be the final nail of the coffin.
It was the teller at my previous local branch that said they were closing the branch because walk-in customers were down by 11%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
If I'm misunderstanding her (or if she was misquoting), please explain what that figure actually means. Ta.
BTW, I wonder how many branches could they keep open if the didn't pay the fat cats the big bonuses?
It's that an 11% drop is a directional change (presumably 2016 compared to 2015) whereas you've linked that to 89% of customers use branches & 11% don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Edit: The point on bonuses also doesn't correlate. If a branch (or any other part of a business) is losing money it doesn't matter how many 'fat cat' bonuses would keep it open - why would you want to if it continues to generate a loss?
Who did they buy post 2008?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
The Williams and Glyn farce represents an acquisition? It certainly represents the kind of reckless behaviour that was supposed to be a thing of the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
Why would you want to throw cash at one person as opposed to keeping open a branch that serves a community and provides jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
I suppose it depends on your point of view. FWIW, I know what my choice would be from 'bonus' or 'branch'.
Actually this represents the fact that lots of people have an opinion without understanding what they are on about! :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
If you were a shareholder (and you are, like it or not :greengrin), giving someone a bonus of £50k, say, for saving the company, say, £500k pa, would be a reasonable deal, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
I am more familiar with it than I'd like to be, frankly. RBS are in a pickle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Williams and Glyn are existing RBS England and Wales branches and NatWest Scotland branches. So absolutely no acquisition at all, they already owned them. As far as I know there has been no acquisitions since ABN.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Williams and Glyn (and TSB in the case of Lloyds) is a mandated disposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
I agree it's reckless but in this case it's not the banks' fault.
Incidentally, the amount wasted on W&G could have resolved the capital gap.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
It's funny because we (joe public) complain with our shareholder hat on when RBS make a loss but also complain with our customer hat on when they take cost saving measures.
As a straw poll, how many on here still use branches? I seldom do and only for paying in money for work which can't be banked any other way.
The days of needing one on every corner is long gone with the age of mobiles and internet banking.
I suppose technically that's true but the W&G IT contract represented an 'acquisition' of a new enormous piece of work that was always fraught with risk. We're getting into the grounds of in-the-knowery at this point but suffice it to say things are likely to get worse before they get better.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
Can't remember the last time I had to go into a bank branch. It must have been some 15years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
It was not a contract, it was mandated by the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
But we probably both agree it is a mess, sooner it's sorted the better.
Very rarely. Annually at most.Quote:
Originally Posted by beensaidbefore
I imagine lots of "elderly" people go to branches still - and not everybody has a mobile phone or does online banking ... so the need must still be there, I would think?Quote:
Originally Posted by beensaidbefore
You're right, I think with branches being closed there will be more travelling banks that visit a certain area on a certain day. They can go to outlying places like fairmilehead, crammond, gilmerton etc and set up for the day. People who needed to would know when to go and make the time to do so. Total pain but you can understand why. You could effectively close 5 branches for each van/bus/truck and visit those areas once a week. Would save a fortune.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
The busiest branch in the UK? The 0729 train from Brighton to London. More people do their banking at that time in the morning than at any other time.
Yes branches will be needed but the days of having a large branch network has gone.
That's an impressive stat.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
It's bad news for older folk who don't trust the Internet with their hard - earned.
You can pay cash/cheques in at the post office and can take cash out there or at an atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
That probably covers the bulk of the need.
Sure, but if I need a new account, a debit card, etc, or if I change my location, need a loan, lose my card, need some financial/banking advice, want to exchange money will the PO help me, can the ATM help me?Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
Another aspect worthy of consideration is the atrocious level of IT security at banks in general with regard to the obsolete online processes/systems/infrastructure in place - how soon before that system breaks down: what then? Here in Germany most systems are roughly 20 years old and the people capable of servicing/maintaining such "old" systems are retiring or have retired .... is it any different in the UK I wonder?
... you guys still use "cheques"??? :confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
What about the elderly who don't like using ATMs and don't have a post office close by? My grandad never used an ATM, he would always go in to his branch for money every couple of days.
Also what is going to happen with all the staff in these branches which are closing? I'm sure some of them won't want a call centre type job
Keeping open loss making branches that fewer and fewer people use just because there are a few elderly folk that don't use an ATM doesn't seem a sensible business case to me. Anyway I'm not sure this 'what about the elderly' thing makes much sense...ATM's have been around for decades so to suggest that just because you are in later years means you can't or won't use one just seems a bit odd. And most elderly folk have seen technology arrive and a lot have embraced it, at least to some degree. Again just because you are over 65 or whatever doesn't mean you can't use online banking or pick up a phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnors_strip
As for the staff I have no idea...hopefully they can find alternative roles for them but again, while difficult for them on a personal level, you can't expect a business to support loss making areas for evermore.
I'd count my parents as elderly - they are retired and into their 70s. They're pretty ok at remote banking, but prefer telephone banking (speaking to someone) over doing something online, I'd say. Their local branch has closed some time ago, but they did eventually adapt after a short while of being a bit shocked to see something that's been in the village for decades suddenly disappear. There is also the post-office counter, where they can take money out and pay money in.
It's all about ensuring there's some good information about the alternatives.
To be honest, I think if we're wondering when RBS will start caring, we're probably wondering a few years too late!
You can do that online or on the phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
Cheque numbers are decreasing, I suspect the demographics using cheques are the ones likely to use branches more.
Out of interest, do you think he'll be willing to pay for it to cover the cost of the service? Let's say a fiver a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnors_strip
I would ask him but don't think they use banks in heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
If he was still alive I'm sure he would happily pay for the service
The chances are that folk in that position are aleady paying for it through hidden chargesQuote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
Apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnors_strip
Fair enough, not many would.
Fair point, you can do "everything" online, my point was what if you don't want to or can't? And - as I referred to in my post - what about the outdated IT systems and people in charge - and the inherent risk, you don't have an issue with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
You happy to have financial advice give to you "on the phone" by someone you don't know, can't see?
It's a fine balancing act. The public (shareholder) wants it to be making a profit so it can sell its shares but the public (customer) doesn't want to cut loss making services such as branches.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
Systems/processes are pretty crap but it costs money to fix them. You can't spend money on everything and a significant amount goes into regulation such as ring fencing and offloading W&G/TSB (for RBS/Lloyds respectively). To invedt in other areas there have to be cutbacks.
If a customer doesn't like the existing service (because of branch location or whatever) then, just like you'd do in any other industy, find someone else to go to.
I sympathise with those who struggle with certain services but they'll be in a minority and coming back to the first point, it's not a charity. When you think about it it's not often you do any of the things you can't do in a post office so the cost:benefit isn't there for the bank or the public.
Strictly speaking banks don't give financial advice but to answer the question, yes I'm fine with that. I'll make a judgement based on their phone manner and/or website whether I trust them or not.
Edit: it's a bit like the recent fuss about Christmas lights in Edinburgh. Money doesn't spread far enough and when it comes down to christmas lights, bin collections, schools etc. a difficult choice needs to be made about what goes.
Good advice, Crunch. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Crunch
I've been with RBS for over 50 years. Time to say "stuff them" as that's their apparent latest attitude towards their customers.
The cost of a transaction in a branch costs something like £4. To make one using digital/online is something like a 1/4 to. 1/5 of that. Very rarely to I go to a branch unless I need to pay a cheque in. Even then, I'll use the automates system
.... and the cost to RBS for me using another bank will be even less. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzywuzzy
Another 30 being earmarked for closure.
From BBC website "An RBS spokesman said many more customers now preferred using mobile and online services over traditional branch counters."
That may be the case and he must be one of them because he obviously doesn't have to stand for up to an hour in a queue at the remaining branches like the average punter. :grr:
Here's a list of the RBS branches facing closure.
Anstruther
Banchory
Bishopbriggs
Blantyre
Buckie
Cowdenbeath
Cumnock
Cupar
Dalgety Bay
Denny
Forres
Girvan
Glasgow Alexandra Parade,
Glasgow Anniesland Cross
Glasgow Burnside
Glasgow Crosshill
Glasgow Govan
Grangemouth
Kilsyth
Kirkcaldy Central
Leven
Mauchline
Newton Mearns
Newton Stewart
Prestwick
Stenhousemuir
Stonehaven
Troon
Westhill
Whitburn
Is what you wait in the branch for something that you can only do in an actual branch?Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Leven is my branch. I hardly use it. My dad is raging though.
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As opposed to doing it online do you mean? If so, I do not want to do any banking online, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
There are far too many horror stories out there. I also like to explain to a real living person what I want to do. I hate 'talking' to a machine that answers my questions & answers with simply more questions.
There are people out there who don't like or trust computers. I'm one of them, as you may have guessed already. :cool2:
I suppose its down to consumer choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
I don't want to pay through my charges, etc.. for someone who needs branches but as long as I can use an online bank then someone else can provide the analogue version for folk who want to pay for it. Easyjet stylee!!
Other option is a post office if it's just the basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
You can pay in/withdraw for example.
Thanks for the tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
Analoguists rule, OK! :wink: :greengrin
Phone banking is my preferred choice. Speak to a person and avoid online banking without having to visit a branch.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Each to his own, I guess. :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by beensaidbefore
Embrace the 21st century man, you will be OK, honest. 😂
I do online banking but equally there are things I like to go into a branch for.
Vynil is back in vogue :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by beensaidbefore
Don't understand anyone not doing online banking to be honest. Particularly on savy enough to use Hibs.net.
Probably the same reason people still shop on the high street or go to a supermarket rather than sit at a PC and order everything online.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
Three of these are local to me, Stenhousemuir, Denny and Grangemouth.
Very sad and a sign of the times unfortunately.
Don't follow. Banking is a service rather than something you can see, touch and try. There is no comparison other than the social side of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
There is social interaction and a personal feeling of being able to speak to a human being. Also folk like to wander along their local high street and do their messages and do errands. I totally get it. I have the facility to do online banking but if I have the time I will always go to a branch. The same with supermarket shopping, I don't try any of our weekly shop in the shop and pretty much I know exactly what we want and what brands we buy but would never dream of doing it online.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
Correct. I do some banking online but there are a lot of things that I prefer to go into my local branch for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
I don't think the option of speaking to someone face to face should ever be taken away.
Cannot really blame RBS for the decision, based on the economic argument. Hopefully, though, they'll stop banging on about being at all vested in the local communities that they used to serve. And I imagine that the communities whose local branches have survived this cull will realise that it'll be their turn the next time, or the time after that.
A sign of the times for sure but what's sad about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
People lose jobs? Communities are made smaller? Yet less emphasis is put on human to human interaction and replaced with computers?Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
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Does losing a bank branch that people don't use do any of those things though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jimmy
People do use them though. Maybe not in the numbers as they would in a city centre but the truth is they are closing branches which leaves some with miles to travel to the next one. I also assume people do work in them too so the jobs point is fair?Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
I'm not pro branch as I do most of mine online but I do dislike the trend of not being able to speak to a person face to face. Very soon your supermarket will have no one on the tils either.
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The distance some business's/Bowling clubs etc are having to travel to bank their takings is becoming ridiculous.
Someone else has beaten me to it but I would echo what they've said. People will be losing their jobs as a result of these closures and local people who use their branches will now have to travel several miles to go to their nearest branch and that may not be possible for a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
I loathe the idea of having less and less human contact in everyday life and having the ability to speak to someone about something if you want to. There's now robots doing the jobs of humans in a lot of sectors including hospitals and whilst it is undoubtedly cost effective, I do think it's extremely sad.
My branch is being shut down due to "not enough people using it". Yet, most of the time when i'm in there, i'm stuck in the queue for over an hour! :grr:
Think it's time to leave RBUK and go with a proper independent bank.
I very rarely use the bank in person. I have however noticed that more than one person on this thread has said they wait for over an hour and they don't want the branches closed. Firstly, whenever I use the branch there is nobody there, I walk in, get served straight away and walk straight back out (admittedly I'm not RBS, im BOS). What on earth are you guys waiting for that takes an hour? Secondly, if you wait for over an hour to get served, surely that should be enough to make you use the online services instead? Not a chance would I be standing in an hour long queue at the bank when I could (most likely) do it online.
One of the biggest reasons the branches are closing is because they simply don't make money. A branch can be busy all day but if it's just people taking out money and paying money in its worthless to the bank. The only way banks are going to survive at the moment is through borrowing products.
Within the next 10 years companies like RBS will be 100% online and over the telephone and that goes for all kinds of banking.
I think you've been misinformed if that's what you have been told. It's nothing to do with footfall it's to do with the kind of business going through the branch. As I said in my previous post if people aren't taking out loans, credit cards, mortgages etc the branches are worthless to the bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs
That's all fine and I get it. Just like high street shoppers generally pay a premium over buying something online, it's going to get to the point where folk that want to use a branch are going to have to pay for it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
Fair enough and I suppose everyone sees and interacts with the world in different ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
I get the people losing jobs thing and on a personal level for them that will be tough although I would hope that the banks involved would be able to use these people more effectively in their business rather than just letting them go. Or ultimately these people can be employed elsewhere in the economy where they actually contribute to productivity rather than being employed in delivering a loss making service in terminal decline.
I'm not buying the personal interaction thing hugely though...why do you need personal interaction to do standard banking? Anytime I've used a branch (not often) that interaction has pretty much been to tell me to put my pin into the key pad and that's about it!
Seems to me that after PPI banks can't use this 'interaction' to foist unwanted products on people and therefore their branches no longer make them money...more one up for the consumer than any sadness on that front I would say.
As for automation...well with demographics the way they are that's simply the only way forward. Releasing people from doing mundane and low value tasks is all good in my book. Can't say it's prevented me from talking to someone if I want to but as above I don't really think that most standard banking tasks really need me to talk to anyone...maybe that's just me though as I'd rather just get the task done than enter into mundane chat with a stranger about the weather [emoji12]
Agreed. The big question though, will they.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
Most people would be horrified at the thought of paying say £5 per month for a no frills bank account. But the reality is that for most branch regulars it'll cost at least that to break even.
If I'm lucky, I'll be pushing up the daisies by then. There's always a bright side, eh? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by lugz
I'm not sure how many of the branches mentioned will fall into the rural setting, or how many that have already shut do.
There's at least a couple of things us city dwellers that might not think about.
There may not be a signal for these people to bank, or indeed to anything, online. Its not just the position of the bank but their customers living away from the village in even more remote locations.
There's the viability of the villages they serve. Providing a service aside. It may not be much 2 or 3 people leaving a village but its the thin edge of the wedge; the bank goes, a grocer or the butcher goes, the school becomes less viable, the young families move away ... the village ceases to exist! Perhaps an extreme scenario and not blaming all these events on the RBS but ...
Good point and probably closure of a village's Post Office hurt as much in this way - probably more so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Everything is not about money (or at least it shouldn't be).
I recently had to close the accounts of my mother. I haven't a clue how I could have done that other than go to her local branch with death certificate and proof of identification. The staff at the bank were extremely understanding and helpful. There's more to high street banking than just transfers and withdrawals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
I deal in cash quite a lot and should therefore be one of the people who are most effected by branch closures but when I think about it, it's not that big a deal. The only pain is that I might have to drive a bit further.
Even when I do go into a branch I don't interact with anyone. I can pay notes and coins in, take money out and see my balances all at one machine. Moving money between accounts can be done online and if I have a query there is a local voice at the end of a phone.
It's sad in a way but at least I don't have anyone giving me fake chat which is only a preamble to some sales pitch.
And that person who goes along the huge queue asking if there's anything she can do. Yes, you can get behind the ****ing counter and serve people!
Some things I won't miss.
That's Denny down to a one bank town then.
You obviously have a car Pete, and drive to the bank already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Some folk don't and have to start relying on public transport to get to their nearest bank.
As Hibrandenburg said "There's more to high street banking than just transfers and withdrawals". He's spot on.
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/...1_OM2-PID87640
If true, this is no surprise to me. Banks all over the world have been doing this since time immemorial.
I'm of the opinion that bankers see nothing unethical in it. To them, it's just 'business as usual'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-42179432
Ouch. That’s a lot of branches.
You're right. The queue at the RBS Corstorphine branch is almost out in the street as I speak. I hope the staff laid off at other branches will be deployed here. Somehow I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs
Must be years since I’ve been in a branch.
You were standing in the queue outside too then. :tumble:Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
What a disgraceful way to treat your customers.
Don’t you do online? I bank with Santander business and personal all my business pay ins I can do through the atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
The one at the West End is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
Have the list of branches been announced yet?
Yes - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42192760Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
Rarely use a branch these days but the fact that in the last 3 years people using branches is down 40% and online banking is up 73% you could see what was coming.
RBS are also getting rid of atm's that are attached to the sites that are closing.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
They'd be much better getting rid of some of the heavily bonused knobs at the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
It would be interesting to know how much of that 40% is driven by a reduction in demand and how much is due to a reduction in branches.
Who would you replace them with?Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Bank branches and ATMs of course :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
Ha ha, fair enough!Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
What would be the point in that?Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
If you read this thread you'll see that hardly anyone uses branches these days.
Hence the closures.
I do and the queue is generally out the door. :coffee:Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Yes I know you do, and I sympathise.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
But I'm wondering whether you need to go to the branch to transact your business.
(I know you've said you prefer doing business with a real person, and I understand that, but could the business you do not be done online?)
Every time I get paid by cheque, i groan. That means i have to go to a bank and pay it in. Now, the pay in facilities are dead easy.... today I was in and out in 5 minutes (whilst the queue for tellers was 15 people long).... but it's becoming increasingly difficult to find a branch to do that sort of business, and it takes ill-afforded time.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Either people have to be educated to pay online....perhaps by making it too expensive to pay by cheque.... or the banks have to provide pay in facilities at the ATM's.
For me, education is the key to, as you suggest, changing people's habits.
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