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Breaking News on TV just now that's there been a (possible) terrorist attack in Munich. In the Olympia Einkauf Zentrum (Olympia Shopping Centre). At least ten dead, possibly fifteen. It's near the Olympic Stadium where Bayern Munich used to play.
There's been police cars flying past my house with sirens blazing for the last half hour or so.
Quite scary, as I used to shop there a lot.
They're saying that it's more than one shooter as well. What goes through these people's minds?
Paris, Brussels, Nice and now Munich. Looks like they're targeting major cities.
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Originally Posted by lord bunberry
I don't get it I really don't
Gemany, Munich in particular, has been fantastic in terms of the number of refugees it has taken in so far from the troubles in Syria and Iraq. IF it is an Islamic Extremist attack, It doesn't make any sense to attack a country doing so much for people of your fellow religion.
These so-called Islamic extremsts have no regard for Muslims or any other faiths. Their barbaric acts defy any link with religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
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Originally Posted by Jim44
:agree:
Sorry if it came over the wrong way, i meant no offense to anyone of the same faith.
In actual fact, the north-west of the city (where the shootings happened) has a very high percentage of people from the middle east and Turkey, so any victims of the shooting could just as easily be Muslims as anybody else.
Tragically, being kind doesn't stop one being "kuffar".Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
They say generals always fight the last battle; seems part of Germany's problem is that it's trying to correct the mistakes of its last war.
I think that's why they target these places. They don't want harmony, they want division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Its early to say who has carried out this attack, but it looks ominous at this stage.
Actually, they have no regard for the wrong kind of muslims, with different groups having different standards and preferences. Left to their own devices, there would only be one person left in the world – the indisputable "true muslim".Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Just to clarify that there's been no evidence yet that it definitely is a Muslim Extremist group behind this attack, just that it seems to be following a familiar pattern.
I'm not sure if it was reported in the UK but there was an attack on a train on northern Bavaria earlier in the week, with four people injured. Some crazy guy apparently influenced by IS online propaganda was responsible. That's kinda raised suspicions.
That was on the news here as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Yes, was in our media. Crazy as in mentally ill or as in jihadist?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
UPDATE:
Local TV just reported that the 10-15 DEAD was a miscommunication from the reporter on the ground.
That's apparently the number of INJURED reported so far, though it's unclear exactly how many are actually dead (but one definite)
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Originally Posted by (((Fergus)))
He was mentally ill.
He already had 'issues' and became obsessed with watching online propaganda.
A few muslims killed in Nice. Loads in Iraq and Syria slaughtered by Isis.Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Fergus)))
Watching sky and bbc news and reading Twitter. It's scary watching it, seen footage of someone shooting at people outside a McDonald's beside the shopping mall.
Media saying there is 3 gunmen and a co-ordinated attack
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Originally Posted by oconnors_strip
Apparently the police still haven't caught them and are advising everyone to clear the streets, both in that part of town and in the town centre.
Any in Nice - collateral damage, "going to Jinna anyway". Those in Syria/Levant - the wrong kind of muslims plus gays, apostates and other "criminals".Quote:
Originally Posted by Colr
Incredibly, shooters are still on the run. Keekaboo, I hope you are safe.
I think that's the crux of the problem. You have to have some form of psychotic imbalance to even contemplate gunning down innocent people for some kind of nutty cause. Doesn't mean that all people with mental health issues are potential killers though. I like everyone else get angry, but it needs to be a special kind of anger that's slow cooking to allow someone to go and do something like this in a premeditated way. My thoughts are with the victims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
I don't think anybody actually said that, just this particular guy.
Not saying anyone did mate. Just thought it's worth mentioning though. Stay safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
:aok:
Sorry, just a bit on edge at the moment
Germany has had problems with these guys in the past, known as Einsatzgruppen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Fergus)))
Cheers, Fergus.
:aok:
Sitting at home watching DVDs now and decided to stay here until these guys have been caught
According to the Mirror, one attacker shouted "***** foreigners" before attack.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-armed-8474748
Are we looking at a right wing attack here?Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Fergus)))
Have to admit that I was thinking that someone entirely different was responsible.
Impossible to say. We all thought the breivik attack was al qaeda at first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Habe to think though that it is only our natural geographic advantages and probably our effective security services that have pevented these in uk so far. Thats not meant to sound complacent, more grateful
Oh, ****!! Morons from both sides. Two cheeks of the same arse!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Possibly, but if it is the source of the problem is still the same. The only winner from this attack is ISIS, I just wish these right wing nutters would see that they're playing into the hands of the very people they think they're fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
divide and conquer is the plan and to a limited degree it's working.
The shooter was an Iranian, with German Citizenship, and was apparently shouting stuff about his hatred for Turks.
So far it sounds like one guy acting alone and no suggestion of links to IS
Yep loner with mental health issues aged just 18 inspired by far right guy in Norway think it was who killed all those young folk on an islandQuote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Was five years to the day since that incident
He lured people to McDonalds on face book with offer of free food
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought Germany had tight gun control laws. How did this nutter get hold of one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
I suppose no matter the laws it's probably reasonably easy to obtain a gun if you really want one, esp. In a country that has such high gun ownership and open borders to up to 20 odd other countries...Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLake
A quick google search, a couple of downloads and enough cash (or equivalent) and pretty much anyone can procure a gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
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Originally Posted by GreenLake
Actually, the gun control laws are not nearly as strict as in the UK. However, the guy apparently bought his from the Internet.
There's been another attack in Reutlingen, Baden Wurtemburg, this time a guy with a machete.
One woman dead and others injured. No details as to the motive but N24 reporting the attacker to be Syrian, so they know who he is.
UPDATE: This was not a Terrorist attack, it was a domestic incident. The initial reporting concentrated on his nationality, so obvious suspicions arose as to the motives.
Surprised Rasta_Hibs isnae all over this thread.
Left, I believe. (As in past tense of leave, not his political stance)...Quote:
Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY
I hope you can continue to be grateful for years to come, but, to my way of thinking, it's just a matter of time before there is a major incident in one of our larger cities.Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
Domestic violence incident like we see in Glasgow, Liverpool and London every other week. Only thing that makes this different and headline news is the perpetrator's nationality. Getting tired of this bull**** to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Yep, it is. It was badly reported at first as if it was a terrorist attack. I think it's because of the number of incidents in the last week or so.
However, there's now been a suicide bomb attack by a Syrian Refugee in Ansbach, Fortunately the only person that was killed was the bomber but other people have been injured.
He was turned away from a Music Festival shortly before, which now looks like his intended target.
This one was definitely not a domestic incident.
I do think the media have a responsibility to report accurately at times like this and such speculation is unhelpful, although probably consistent with public thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
But the problems with the media go deeper than sensationalist headlines and speculation IMO and they do always seem to focus on the most devisive and negative part of a story. For example, I remember last year in London there was a massive anti-IS parade by Muslims which wasn't even mentioned on BBC (yet they often cover protests from a small number of dickheads from the BNP). I feel they have a responsibility to report positive things like this that could genuinely influence and improve people's views. I'd also blame the media for the tone of the EU debate being so negative and focused on immigration when that was only part of much bigger issue. People focus on what the media tell them to.
That being said, and I know this is separate to your post, the nationality of the terrorists committing offences is newsworthy given some of them may be migrants that Merkel actively encouraged to come to mainland EU without any kind of background check. It brings in to question the judgement Merkel made and I don't have an issue with this being discussed so long as it's done objectively.
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Originally Posted by Holmesdale Hibs
I agree with this, HH.
I think there are two dangerous extremes;
The first are the parts of the Media, Politicians and others that want to portray all Muslims/Refugees/Immigrants in a bad light and, as you have pointed out, not giving enough focus to the condemnation by the majority of these kind of events. An estimated one million refugees came to Germany in a very short time and only a tiny minority have engaged in criminal behaviour... probably less pro-rata than the people that live here already.
The opposite extreme are those that are determined to see or hearing nothing that does not fit their 'open-minded' (in their eyes) world view. The events in Cologne, and other German cities, at New Year are a perfect example, where it appeared that some people were desperate to play down first the scale of events and then deny the origins of the majority of the perpetrators (largely north-west African criminal gangs). Some people pointed to the Mayor of Cologne's denials as a defense for their viewpoint, conveniently putting aside the fact he had to resign because of his attempts to play down, possibly cover up, what actually happened.
Both of these extremes are equally dangerous, the latter because those that feel they have a genuine grieviance (whether right or wrong) see no-one in the mainstream of politics or the media willing to even discuss it, so are sometimes attracted to those that claim to listen, people like Farage and his ilk.
The problem is talking about it. Racism is so deeply rooted that it defies all logic. You could school someone for weeks about how and why you can't make general or sweeping assumptions about race, culture, religion or nationality but in some people the fear of what they don't know overrides all logic and they end up fitting the facts to their beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Sometimes I think the human race is made up of two types of personality. Those who are open to the world and eager to learn more about it and those who fear change and will defend what they see as the status quo. The latter are where your extremists come from on both ends of the political spectrum and are essentially alike. Many of them don't even realise they're inward looking because they tend to surround themselves with like minded people who confirm their views.
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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Sad but true
I think that's a good summary. People do seem to focus on the extreme sides of any arguments and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
I saw you mention earlier that you live in Germany, which must be quite strange at the moment. How do you see this impacting German politics? Is Merkel still quite popular? My (non-expert) opinion on all of this is that Merkel's call for migrants to come to Europe will go down in history as big mistake. Germany has failed to cope with the numbers and is trying to enforce quotas on other countries that simply (rightly or wrongly) don't wan't them. This has led to tensions between and within many EU countries with no obvious solution. Then there's the migrants themselves of course, the majority of which are fleeing a war zone in search of a safe place to live and work and have been treated as a political football. They have been mislead in to the kind of welcome they receive have had their lives turned upside down. Finally there's the small minority that have caused problems, which people also don't know how to deal with or even identify. Some reasonable foresight and due diligence should have flagged these problems.
Based on the above, I find it difficult to see Merkel being re-elected. However this is based on me trying to think how I'd feel if I was german and would be interested to know what the german public think.
Hope everything settles down over there. Mrs H is part german and its a great country and sad to see these recent events.
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Originally Posted by Holmesdale Hibs
Hi HH,
I think Merkel's popularity probably has decreased but not so much as you'd think. There really is only one genuine rival party, the SPD (the one's she's in coalition with) and they're very much in favour of taking in refugees, so anyone unhappy about it doesn't have a major alternative when it comes to the next election.
It's probably not a popular opinion among many but Mrs K and I are both of the opinion that the countries that do so well out of the arms trade really can't complain when the refugees turn up, wanting to escape the conflict that makes billions for the arms manufacturers. Germany has a major arms industry and, believe me, they have done very well out of it. If I had the chance, I'd make them pay to house and feed the refugees.
As you say, Germany really is a great country to live in and a fantastic place to visit. For anyone thinking of coming here for a holiday, I'd encourage them to not let the scare stories put you off.
Excellent post and pretty much where I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
I keep getting told by some on social media that I can't judge just how bad the situation is in the UK because I don't live here. Then the very same people start posting made up stories about how bad the situation is here in Germany and if we don't close the UK borders then it will be just as bad there soon. So they're basically telling me that the UK is close to be taken over by islamists but it's not as bad as Germany! Makes my blood boil the huge amount of folks who believe anything they see on social media without bothering to check the facts.
Interesting, thanks for responding. I think your view about the arms industry is fair and I can't see too many people complaining if arms dealers were told to pay some kind of war tax. It surprises me there's not more of an outcry when we sell arms to some pretty dubious people and it's something folks across the political spectrum should agree on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Well a wee guy said to me on the bus today "the world's gone mad, eh?"
I've now done a wee bit of research and the statistics of what Germans would call Amoklauf (killing sprees) is a bit of an eye opener. In the last 25 years there's been 12 cases in Germany. 10 of those 12 cases were carried out by German men, 1 a German woman and the other a German man with Iranian parents. Kind of puts to bed the media's hyperbole that Germany is suffering a wave of Islamic atrocities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmesdale Hibs
That's some good research and agree it would be good if the media reported things like this to add some context. There have been a few events recently that wouldn't qualify as Amoklauf but still count as terror attacks (guy on the train, bomber at the music festival) which shouldn't be ignored though. But you make a fair point and perspective is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg