Not heard anything on Laidlaw but did hear that o’Connor had knocked back several new contract offers
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Not heard anything on Laidlaw but did hear that o’Connor had knocked back several new contract offers
I see Young got 2 goals at the weekendQuote:
Originally Posted by cameronw-hfc
Maybe they should stop going to the three sisters if they want to be next level professionals.Quote:
Originally Posted by CL0762
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree it seems! Gary was a total slaver when young too regarding clubs that he was going to!Quote:
Originally Posted by scoopyboy
His first goal in about 10 games in a thumping against Dalbeattie star. He'll be 19 in summer will probably be a big season next year probably need a loan if he's to step upQuote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
Garry was telling our table in hospitality they value Josh at £3m
So Josh wants £5k a week but would settle for £3.5k.
Bar had only been open for an hour as well!!!
😂 He’s always been some man for talking *****. At least make it semi believable ffs Garry!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
Should have asked him if Kevin Nisbet was on that kind of money at 18 at Patrick Thistle 👍 hard work, dedication and proving yourself gets those contracts Garry - oh and a fool and his money are soon parted 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
Our youngsters will probably be on pretty low wages and must look at the likes of Tavares, Kenneh and Melkersen and compare what they earn with what they (allegedly) earn and think WTF. Is this a case of us offering Laidlaw and O'Connor a relative pittance compared to laddies mentioned and they're thinking, **** signing that? I can't see any info on the length of Laidlaw's contact online, but I'm surprised it was only a two year deal. He signed his first professional contact in Feb 2021, when he was 16.
https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/articl...ional-contract
Garry needs to butt out and leave contract conversations to those that are not emotionally involved. Surely young O'Connor has a proper agent?Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
But the players you have mentioned are first team players. Once these young boys start performing for the first team then they are in a position to ask for more money and not before.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
Kurtis Byrne mark 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Sioux
He will be the ruin of that laddie guaranteedQuote:
Originally Posted by Sioux
If josh is to be the worth big tranfer fees, he wants to stay away from, Why Not, and the Harp and Castle.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAXXA
He is not doing himself, any favours.
Edinburgh has a small nightlife,and my laddie uses most of it, but he’s a chef.
Not quite, Tavares and Melkersen were brought in for the development squad, same squad as O'Connor an Laidlaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
I do t think they were? Can't remember reading they were for the development squad like Haugue etc. I could off course be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
No they weren’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
No they weren’tQuote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Yep, Jackie McNamaraQuote:
Originally Posted by Sioux
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Perhaps that makes them feel all the more frustrated. These guys must be earning a pittance compared to the likes of Tavares, Melkersen, Kenneh, none of whom have actually "performed", albeit they have been on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
For young strikers with self -belief, knowing that they have had a group of poor strikers (Bojang, Melkersen, McKirdy, Tavares) ahead of them when they are not really getting a sniff of an opportunity, it must piss them off big time. Whether they are any better than the likes of Bojang, Melk or Tav, who knows, but I'm baffled as to why neither have been used from the bench in order to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayern Bru
Said 'proper' agent
No they weren't. The plan was for them to play in both. Melk got pushed up earlier due to injuries. Tav has just sat on the bench the whole time. They are still classed as senior players and trained with the first team every week.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Although it's great for the players, i think this European run has held back, the ones who might make it, from getting more 1st team exposure. it feels like Keen is keeping this group together for Europe. Once that come to an end, whenever that may be, i think we will see the ones who will make it get more game time for the 1st team.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
I get that. But you can't demand more wages if you haven't moved up to the first team squad proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
Is that perhaps a reason they’ve not been given starts in the 1st team? They would then expect a decent deal quite rightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Some youth contracts have a clause where if you play for the first team you move onto a different pay scale. I often wonder if this affects a clubs decision giving young players an opportunity of first team footballQuote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Perhaps. I think we are all a bit perplexed why they have had almost zero chance for even cameo roles in games. Other teams at our level seem to often bring on young players during the games.Quote:
Originally Posted by chippy
Look at the bench against Livi for example. It was full of players we are either actively trying to get rid off or reluctant to ever play e.g. Cabraja, Henderson, Mitchell, Melkerson, Kenneh, Fish. Maybe less so Kenneth & Melkerson as they could also be brought on for game time, but replace some of the others with some of the U19s with little detrimental impact to the bench. Then a game 4-0 up against 10 men is the time to take advantage and give them minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
I've only seen the two UEFA Youth Cup games which is not a sound basis for judgement but what struck me most in these two games was the tremendous togetherness of the team, playing as a unit and for each other. The one exception was Laidlaw in the Molde game where his body language left a lot to be desired, giving the impression that he was above the level of football being played, even though his own performance didn't live up to his reputation. However iirc he was maybe not long back from an injury and was perhaps more frustrated with his own performance? He was certainly miles better vs Nantes. Hopefully that is the player we see vs Dortmund, not the sulky chimp* who came out of the box at times vs Molde.
* https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chimp-Parad.../dp/009193558X
Both were nowhere near ready for 1st team, hence I thought they were for the development team, just shows what a **** up our recruitment has been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Laidlaw wouldn't offer anything less than McKirdy to the team so why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
He's had more yellow cards than shots at goal. Wouldn't surprise me if he leaves the club without scoring a goal. Absolute dross in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
In the early 90s some of the players in BP sides made it some that didn’t were cracking players that’s the game unfortunately hope a few can get a chance if not then at other clubs
Therein lies the problem. Guys that are doing it at under 19 level in the elite European tournament are not given a chance in a woefully under performing 1st team. I think there’s something very odd about that. Stories of low ball deals for Laidlaw- possibly others Aitken perhaps who are out of contract in May. What are the Gordon’s playing at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Remember seeing Hibs win the BP youth cup and thinking we had some cracking players in that team that would go on and make a name at HibsQuote:
Originally Posted by eastmainsmsh
Jason Gardiner
Graeme Love
Steve Dallas
Nicky Ingram
Darren Dodds
Colin MacDonald
Some great prospects Dundee United had a good side as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Colin McDonald and Paul Currie were from Musselburgh I’m sure ?
I doubt contract renewals for under 19 players are within the Gordon’s MO. That would be Ben Kensell, our CEOQuote:
Originally Posted by chippy
Therein lies the trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by chippy
As another poster said, if there are provisos around improving contracts if young players play in first team games then it would be truly appalling if that became the basis for holding any of them back.
They own and control the club, it’s on their watchQuote:
Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip
Ben runs the club day to day, and he has contract negotiation as part of his role. I assume he will have budget allocated to the youth squad and will try and figure out how best to spend that with Steve Kean.Quote:
Originally Posted by chippy
We don’t have a history of holding young players back but we do have a history of fans putting unrealistic expectations on young players based solely on their performances in youth football.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
Don't know if any of the current crop of young players are worthy of a first team start because I haven't seen them play, a situation I fully intend to rectify when they play Borussia Dortmund on the 7th of February .... at a fiver to get in and the opposition being one of Europe's biggest clubs I'm sort of hoping for a crowd approaching 10,000 ... If our women's team can get near that, even if it was free to get in, then I can't see why this game cant come close at a mere £5 .... if it's promoted properly.
In just the week past I've seen a 17 year old score in the English championship and a ( barely ) 17 year old Scot play twice for Liverpool's first team, looks a cracking wee player by the way, but that being the case at what point will Hibs acknowledge the 'if your good enough your old enough' adage, if some of our youngsters are as good as the results they get seem to indicate and from the feedback of some on here who have actually seen them play it seems strange that we haven't seen at least one of them given a chance on the park.
Maybe, that's not what's being discussed. Said young players are out of contract this summer and may well leave the club. What's your thoughts on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
I’d be wary of being held to ransom for young players who can’t break into a terrible Hibs team. O’Connor is 19 in the Summer and in my opinion isn’t anything special. Laidlaw definitely has potential and having just turned 18, I’d like to see him kept on to continue his development but potential is still all it is, he’s yet to establish himself in the first team.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
People have complained about other players blocking the path to the first team for younger players but if the likes of O’Connor is given a long contract and doesn’t develop into a first team player, will he then be blocking the pathway for the likes of Landers coming through after him?
Agreed. Is it really being suggested we should offer great contracts to these guys? They've got to be assessed and if good enough they'll get an offer based on their status in the squad, i.e. squad/fringe player.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
I’d disagree. I’ve put up the study before that showed the number of debuts given and minutes player from 2009 - 2019 for homegrown players. We compared badly, particularly in minutes played, with Rangers, Celtc, Hearts, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd. I wouldn’t have thought since 2019 we’d fare any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Yes there’s not anyone we’ve let go that we’ve really regretted without going back to Booth, Wotherspoon & maybe Sean Welsh who went on to have solid careers. My gripe is how many players have we brought in to simply make up the numbers and at times play players out of position rather than use them. Off the top of my head Nelom, Eckersley, Eardley, Big Dave, Darnell Johnson, Nathan Wood, Bojang etc etc. That’s not even including players we signed who have simply offered nothing McKirdy, Tavares, Melkerson etc. We should be padding our squad out with our own youngsters and putting the money we spend on the type of signings mentioned above (Nelom etc) on a stronger starting 11.
I'm a bit surprised that we've not loaned out more of these youngsters. It's good having them together for this tournament but at 18 O'Connor should be getting some first team action.
I can't think of many of our young players that've come through and done well without first having a loan spell. Campbell, Porteous, Doig and then back to the likes of Shaw, Murray and Stanton. Harris done well without one before his injury and so did Cummings but he didn't exactly hit the ground running.
Doig, Porteous and Campbell all clearly benefitted from their loan.
If we put them out on loan then they can't play in the UEFA Youth League.Quote:
Originally Posted by KWJ
The laddies deserve the chance to continue their European run.
Is the European run, as impressive as it is, and little other games enough for their development? Or would they develop more playing a seasons worth of first team football? Genuine questions, as I don’t know the answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoopyboy
My worry is that there’s an element of vanity in having a team doing well in Europe rather than it being the best option for their development this season.
Very good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
I'm pretty sure Hibs had hoped for far more fixtures, the Reserve League has been a flop.
Friendlies have been arranged to try and keep the players involved but it's not the same as regular competition.
It’s a far point. They’ve not gone on loan to basically play 4 games in Europe .Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
If/when they are knocked out of Europe I think I’m right in saying lower league clubs can still take players on loan after the window closes.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoopyboy
Has to be questions about how much closer these lads are to the first team than they were at the start of the season though.
I suspect that if you canvassed the players a significant majority would be in favour of staying together as a team in Europe for as long as possible instead of going on loan to a club down the pyramid. It's a UEFA Champions League. Very little chance of any of them getting the opportunity to do that at first team level. What an experience for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Carpe Diem. (And no, he's not the latest development team signing from Europe!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Is this a hibs decision?
I've not seen enough of them to answer that but I think it's fair to say Ethan Laidlaw is coming on leaps and bounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Guys like Brooster who have seen lots of games this season would be in a better place than me to comment.
I remember Darren Dods first getting a run in the Hibs first team and looking totally out of his depth. Looked like he would never make it. For some reason he seemed to keep getting opportunities and eventually he adapted and looked ok. His wasn't the most glittering career but it was a long one and one that involved a lot of games at the top level in Scotland. He hugely benefitted from having a number of opportunities to learn and adapt.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
Would the golden generation have achieved what they did if they hadn't been at Hibs at a time when we were getting rid of all our high earners and they were pitched into the first team, having to play every week, learn and adapt? I don't think they would.
Josh Campbell looks much more suited to our level now than he did a year ago.
These examples just make me wonder about the number of players we've had at critical stages in their development and not given opportunities to, arguably correctly because we maybe had better options at the time, but who were maybe deprived of the opportunity at that critical stage? How differently might things have worked out for them if a senior player had an inopportune injury and the manager had no option other than to throw the youngster in for a dozen games in a row?
And how many of those we might have now, or have over the next few years?
I think it was Paul Merson's book I read where he highlights how he got his chance at Arsenal and mentions how much luck has to play in getting an opportunity and then how hard you have to work and again, enjoy a bit of luck, in order to stay there.
They’d be silly to complain about a non generous contract though given they’ve effectively lost 6 months (and counting) of development at a crucial, if not the most crucial, stage of their career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
they would train together during the week bar a day they went to their loan club and play as a team in the reserve league or bounce fixtures then be in their loan team squad at the weekend. Hardly split up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard;[URL="tel:7237311"
Alongside Ethan Laidlaw and Josh O’Connor, Connor was one of the strikers that did well last season, and his departure allows those two to have a clearer pathway towards the First Team.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
“We’re really excited about the potential that Ethan and Josh have. Ethan was away with Scotland’s Under-17s this summer for the Euros, and Josh made a cameo appearance for the First Team last season away at Aberdeen. They’re both pacey strikers that love to get in-behind defences and cause opposition players problems.
“We received a very good amount for Connor, alongside his sell-on, and that allows us to give more opportunities to Ethan and Josh. We have a strong belief that if they can continue their upward trajectory, they have every chance to be First Team players in the future.”
Steve Kean’s words when Connor Young was sold to Rangers.
There has been absolutely zero pathway towards the first team. Ethan was part of first team squads 2 years ago when we were going for 3rd, yet can’t make a squad when we’ve been toiling? He was making squads when we had Nisbet, Doidge & Boyle firing on all cylinders.
I’m not for a moment advocating either Josh or Ethan should be in the squads, but from what I’ve seen of them, we wouldn’t have been any worse off by even including them in the squad and getting maybe 5/10 mins here and there to give them a taste for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
no one has mentioned splitting up as an issue. If they went on loan, they wouldn’t be able to play in the European games that they earned by winning the league last year.
How, is this a uefa rule, I didn't see a response when I queried this earlier. Maybe I missed it .Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Laidlaw only turned 18 two weeks ago.
Still very young with loads of development and growing to do.
Is it fair chucking him into a side that’s struggling and when fans are
Impatient?
We’ve seen/heard of loads of young players coming through over the years like Byrne, Ross Campbell etc they were scoring but looked miles off it in the first team.
I think Johnson would quite happily play a young player if he thought he was ready, I also think he’s the type that would understand that fans would love seeing it and might gain him credit.
Let’s get Laidlaw and the other lads tied down on contracts and drip feed them into the first team. Will they go anywhere else and get a game at this age? I doubt it.
This season has been a disaster for youth players bar the Euro run.
Our young players who are knocking on the door of being involved in the first have had very little match time. There is no competitive fixtures for them to compete In and they’ve not been allowed to head out on loan. Some of them see it as a wasted year.
Hibs are the only team In SPL not to have played a 16/17/18 year old this season.
I’d rather see laidlaws / Macintyre’s come in and make mistakes and develop into a first team regular than watch the likes of Henderson pussy foot about getting pushed off the ball and misplace passes all day.
The young players don’t have to start games, but i think most fans would rather see a cameo appearance for the last 10 minutes from these players, than some of the incumbents on our bench this season.
Especially a forward, he’s gone but what did Bojang offer that laidlaw couldn’t.
Set his head on fire and walk about with his mini Bojang out.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBS NUTS
I'd argue that the experience they have gained from their five (and counting) ties in Europe does as much for their development as playing for Edinburgh City or Stirling Albion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Port seaton is a wild and crazy place, they need no encouragement down there. 😄Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
How? they are playing with and against other youthsQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
A young player's overall development is not just about what happens on the pitch for 90 mins.Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
Not when they are playing in friendlies / development games.Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
But the majority of their training regime remains unchanged unless they go on loan to another full time team (or a distance away) probablyQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Is it 5? Soon to be 7 then. Still not many games at a crucial stage of their career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
I guess we’ll see if it was the right thing in a few years when we look back and see how many “make it”
Are you that confident about beating Borussia?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
soon to be 6. Next game is one leg I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Soon to be 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Played Molde and Nantes home and away.
Dortmund as you say is a one leg.
Cheers guys - so they’ve played 4 and now have a 1 legger.
5 games in 6/7 months basically.
+ 6 games at the Algarve Cup + 6 domestic fixtures + a number of friendliesQuote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Cheers - were they under 19s or the development team games?Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
I’m not sure friendlies are as useful as any competitive games they could’ve played. i can see why players could be frustrated, although if they’ve prioritised the 5 European games the lack of games is a consequence of the choice they’ve made.
Colin Nish at Tranent is very keen to take a few young players on loan if their European experience ends beginning of February.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoopyboy
The Lowland League would be great for these players, especially playing on a surface like they have at Foresters.
Colin probably knows most of them as well, would be a good fitQuote:
Originally Posted by bbtj04
Tranent going for promotion too
Nishy is their old coach? Would make perfect senseQuote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
It’s essentially been the same thing, with the exception of Balde the over 19 development team players have all been on full time loans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
If it makes sense for them to play Liwland League why didn’t we just put a team in there ourselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip
I think the whole development team has been a big misnomer.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
I don't know why they can't play in the uefa and be on loanQuote:
Originally Posted by bbtj04
Sending anyone over the age of 17 to the Lowland League would be a waste of time. The standard isn’t good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
The only reason Rangers and Celtic have teams there is to try and force their way in to the SPFL.
Hearts currently sitting in 13th position, It wouldn't be easy for our young playersQuote:
Originally Posted by davhibby
I don’t disagree. Just someone suggested it now we’ve found ourselves with a team and hardly any games.Quote:
Originally Posted by davhibby
Nishy looked fitter than half our strikers last time I saw him in Musselburgh 😀 I’d give him a pay as you play deal 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
5 or 6 of the 19s still play u18. The rest are playing for the Development team. Most are playing every week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Would you throw in Ethan and Oscar at the weekend Brooster ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooster
I’d certainly have MacIntyre starting and have EL on the bench.
Who have the development team been playing against mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooster
Quote:
Originally Posted by davhibby;[URL="tel:7238947"
Celtic b got pumped by Gala on Saturday 4-2, but beat wolves in a game 4-0 midweek, I wonder which standard isn’t good enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
i think it’s to do with the players registration. They’d be registered as a player at the loan club, meaning they can’t play in official fixtures for Hibs. Even at a part time club, where they still train with Hibs, they can’t play official fixtures. Wouldn’t be able to play in the reserve cup either I don’t think.
https://t.co/5YE89BNPUm
Article on development here. Hibs score well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
So we have used club-trained players (defined as a player who has been at the club for at least three years between ages 15-21) at double the rate of the second highest club Celtic. Looking forward to the naysayers finding fault with this.
"At the top of the Premiership list is Hibernian, who have used club-trained players in more than a quarter of their minutes this season, Celtic were second on 13.7% while Kilmarnock and Rangers were joint-third on 10.5%."
Who are the players ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
I would imagine Porto as he plays regularly and Doig ?
Anyone else ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Thats a pretty amazing stat TBH. Id imagine its a bit skewed by still having Hanlon and Stevenson in the team. BUT we are about to see a few Dev team players make a breakthrough, hopefully that will only improve the stats.
Its also a great tool to use when talking to parents of younger players.
Hanlon Stevenson & Campbell would all count. Can't think of any others that have featured but adds up to 4 1st team regulars so the 25% figure does make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenCastle
Yeah, while it's accurate, it really skews the numbers to include Hanlon and Stevenson who benefitted from our Youth training and management over a decade ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by basehibby
I agree with some of the posts before about players maybe not being ready but if the potential is there then sometimes playing a young guy ahead of an average first teamer is going to help in the long run. Guys like Campbell, Allen and Gullane got a crack at the whip but didn't do enough and have so far shown that we were right to let them go. This young bunch don't seem to have been given such a shot, which seems even more peculiar when they've done so well at their age group and the team is midtable.