Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
It might have sounded better coming from someone who lied about his signature being on the contract.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
It might have sounded better coming from someone who lied about his signature being on the contract.
So did both lie. I read on here it saved 400 jobs
From that article:-Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
a spokesman for the first minister said she had been "clearly referring to the 400 people currently employed at the yard".
He added: "Those 400 jobs would not currently exist if the Scottish government had not taken the action we did to save the yard - that is a fact"
I mean that other boats were lined up to be built anyway. Not a big deal regardless as the contract would have helped. Although it would have been better if they had never got it as its been such a disasterQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yeah, but he said he had forgotten, a bit like Nicola at the Salmond inquiry.Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
Surprising for BBC to report an anti snp lineQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
If the BBC were to report every lie one of their friendly Tory politicians told each day, there would simply be no room for any other news stories though.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
GGTTH
https://www.insider.co.uk/news/ferguson-marine-shipyard-saved-scottish-18946174Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Proof that Jim mcColl is a liar as well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
So it is your belief that both are dishonest, yeah?
One elected, the other not accountable to the public in any way whatsoever.
I think looking at what is known by us plebs that the yard was put into administration by McColl. Nobody came forward to buy it and the SG stepped in to save it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
According to who you believed it saved either 150 or 350 jobs at the time.
The yard had 5 boats under construction at the time.
I know McColl is accusing sturgeon of lying, but all the information points to him lying. Only time and a public inquiry will tell who lied the most.
He said it himself that he got it wrong. It's in that BBC piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I saw a tweet of Sally MacDonald standing in front of the SNP battle bus stating “all aboard the Gravy Bus” is this because they cannot build a Gravy Boat :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin
Very good. :top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Don't know about the rest of you but I can hardly wait until 6.30 for the next episode of Reporting Ferries.
I'm not saying that this ferry fiasco shouldn't be investigated it rightly should but the airtime it's getting is unbelievable when you consider a Tory peer has had her house and offices raided by Police over an alleged fraud involving multi millions of pounds of tax payers money and there's diddly squat being reported on the BBC.
That’s because the Tory Peer is under a Criminal investigation and therefore whilst the investigation is on going reporting about it is covered by sub judicie as there could be further arrests and/or charges. The Ferry fiasco is not criminal just incompetence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
sub judice
/sʌb ˈdʒuːdɪsi,sʊb ˈjuːdɪkeɪ/
adjectiveLAW
adjective: subjudice
under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.
"the cases were still sub judice"
I don't doubt your answer but it's being widely reported elsewhere, the National is actually reporting on the lack of BBC cover. Come to think of it, it isn't sub judice is it? Sub judice would be if it was in the courts which it isn't, it's an investigation. Ergo there's no reason for not reporting it apart from the BBC trying to protect her and whoever else is involved, one rule for the SG and another for the Tories as per.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
https://www.thenational.scot/news/20...on-house-raid/
Sub judicie also covers criminal investigations and is used regularly if there is a likelihood of more arrestsQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/s...U4voRd9ofjhUzQ
Missing document found.[emoji106]
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That'll be a relief to the team on Reporting Ferries, it's a hard enough half hour to fill as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
"Now over to our permanently stationed reporter in Adrossan, tell us, just how big a disaster for Sturgeon is this latest bombshell?"
Further down that twitter rant is an extract saying that the contract between CMAL and Ferguson Marine was fixed price, so the question I have is how Ferguson Marine managed to run up so much over run on costs in a fixed price contract?!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Mackay hung out for another drying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They couldn't even redact the document correctly.
https://twitter.com/eilidhdouglas/st...b9rD2x91A&s=19
Copy and pasting it into Word meant you could remove all the blacked out sections.
😆Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
And was the smoking gun behind the redactions?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
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None, just more warnings about the significant risks it posed, that were ignored anyway. Not sure why the need to try and redact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
This explains it quite well though.
https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/s...MmcrO5Q9A&s=19
Natalie McGarry: Former SNP MP found guilty of embezzling £25,000 - BBC News
I didn't follow the first trial closely, but having read more about this one it seems reasonable to suggest that she wasn't somebody who was really cut out for a position of responsibility and the demands that brings. Whether or not that's the case it's been a very sorry saga and presumably she now faces a prison sentence?
She is probably looking at some time in prison although a sensible system would just put someone like her on an electronic tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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It's a shambles (and the number of ****-ups Swinney has been associated with must surely embarrass him?) but as long as Nicola just continues to deflect all criticism away by playing the 'we're not as shambolic as the Tories' card I'm sure it will all eventually blow over.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
To be fair, being the least worst option should be enough to win any election.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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Maybe so, but it doesn't exactly say a lot for the quality and depth of policitians in the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
What a sad observation on politics in Scotland today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
...but it's where we are at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
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That’s the same in any country in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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'Elevated beyond her abilities' (and did not undergo a rigorous selection process, according to this, presumably thanks in a large part to her family connections in the party):Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Natalie McGarry: The rise and fall of ex-SNP MP who was once a 'star in the making' (msn.com)
The bar seems set especially low these days, however (the US being the most glaring example). Or is it just that the level of scrutiny now (ie it's a lot harder to 'disappear' things in the electronic age) dissuades a lot of more talented folk from political careers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61422970
I'm unclear how Swinney's 'I only signed off the costs' line somehow absolves him of responsibility?
Why do you think she should only be on tag, she used her position of trust to steal ….she received 18 months previously for these crimes when she pleaded guilty… I expect she will receive a longer sentence this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
On a lighter note...
When we were at Glasgow Airport last week, there was a great big sign on one of the out buildings that said 'NATS'.
My wife said, "typical SNP, they have to get their name on everything"
:greengrin
I just don’t think prison works and I would use the tag for all non violent offences. Nothing to do with who she is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What about scammers who defraud the old and vulnerable out of their life savings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
just stick a tag on their ankle and let them continue scamming on a associates computer.
I’m not saying you don’t keep prison as a last resort. I just think we over use it at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with you and Ozy!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
I think prison, as we know it, should be for crimes that involve violence but add to that crimes of a serious nature.
There are countries in Europe where non dangerous criminals are basically kept in a hostel type jail overnight and at weekends. During what might be described as working hours they are allowed out to carry on their job or in some way repay society for their crime.
Anyway it's probably a debate for another day on a thread of its own if/when it has a chance of becoming a reality.
So the two coppers who took pictures of a crime scene, which contained murdered victims and shared it with others on a private WhatsApp group, were sent to prison …correct sentence ?
I know you were asking another poster about this but probably. And I think McGarry deserves prison too. She stole money when in a position of trust. I believe some of the money was to be used for charitable donations. Both pretty low acts to be honest. I'm not sure that having a tag on for a few months is that much of a deterrent for stealing 30+kQuote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
No, not for me. Not sure the details of that case but sounds like horrific behaviour. That said, it doesn’t sound like either are a danger to the public?Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Obviously they lost their jobs. Whatever the prison sentence was though could easily be served at home under house arrest. The money saved could be used for proper rehabilitation programmes. Meanwhile after an appropriate period the restrictions on their sentence can be eased to allow them to find jobs and start contributing to society again. It also allows their family life to continue (in a very limited way). The costs of family breakdown due to prison can be spread over a child’s lifetime.
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The tag can be on for a few years if it’s felt appropriate. It is a significant restriction of liberty. Imagine being told you can only leave the house to go to work for 3 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
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My point is similar…position of trust broken … she initially pleaded guilty, got a custodial which would include a reduction for her plea…changed her mind, as I don’t think she was expecting a prison sentence…at the very least the courts will remove the reduction and she will serve the recommended tariffQuote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Again you are correct in that they probably aren't a danger to society but they were in a position of trust and power and abused both of these to take pictures of two dead bodies and share them about on WhatsApp. A wee bit of house arrest isn't a deterrent in my opinion. Yes they lost their jobs but that is a disciplinary matter at work rather than a legal matter and shouldn't be seen as an addition to the legal route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Deterrence is over rated. Nobody ever thinks they are going to get caught. If deterrence worked, you would have no murder in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
It’s not a wee bit of house arrest. It can be a long sentence if need be.
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How can you plead guilty get a custodial sentence and then just change your mind? I assume that's allowed but sounds bizarre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
She appealed her conviction at the court of session claiming she had received poor/wrong legal advice, amazingly she won.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
No and same with this woman. The need punished financially and should be tagged and in there house say 6pm to 6am. Take there liberty another way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Prisons do not work. They don't rehabilitate, they make people into criminals. It's an old fashioned view. We should be following Scandinavia and not the US.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61427216
I see that the SNP creation of Police Scotland is costing us taxpayers another £1 million.
A drop in the ocean compared £50 million on the Rangers debacle I suppose.
Pretty sure those attitudes would have been the same if it had remained as Lothian and Borders. The result wouldn't have been any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Besides, Police Scotland can point to crime being 60% lower in Scotland than in England and Wales to claim that overall, they are doing a good job.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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SNP have been in power for 15 years. Shirley it's their fault that sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and sectarianism haven't been entirely stamped out of society by now? :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Could any party completely stamp out things like that from society?
I'm not keen on the Tories but I don't blame them for the existence of racism and misogyny in society.
I agree, though, that they (both) could do more.
My disappointment is not with the Government, it’s the system that awards almost £1m of taxpayers Money for sexist behaviour within the firearms unit, but officers who have received life changing injuries whilst on duty get cast with a fraction of that amount.
Westminster has been on the go for centuries and such things are apparently worse than they've ever been with the institution itself at the centre of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Was the firearms thing not the failure of a number of individuals rather than the system?Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Still a system, which allows huge sums to be paid out for poor behaviour within an institution but allows injured officers and military personnel to scrap for nothing. Please note not I do not point the finger at the Scottish Government for this, it happens through out the UKQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
I'm pretty sure the case was one of constructive dismissal on the grounds of sexual discrimination. That's covered by strong legislation. Someone injured in the line of duty will have other avenues to go down for claiming compensation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
She was not dismissed she managed to leave under Ill health due to stress and was granted an Ill health pensionQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61449144Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/ex-firearms-officer-says-1m-police-payout-will-not-make-up-for-pain
Industrial tribunal ruling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
constructive dismissal isn’t actually being dismissed, it’s where someone’s unemployment is made untenable through the actions of their employer, which is what happened here. That’s how it went to employment tribunal
i agree separately with your point about someone injured in the line of duty though
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Male police officers. There'll still be some in post.
They'll be gutted she won her award. Well done, I say.
It might shine a bit of light on the misogynists in the police.
I am pleased she won her case but I find the compensation amount disgusting compared to what others received, my former colleague got shot in the face which blinded him for life, this effected his mental health, he self medicated with alcohol, his marriage collapsed and he committed suicide … his compensation award was not even a 20th of that figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
I'm sorry to hear about your colleague, but I'm guessing he was a victim of crime rather than his employer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
https://www.polfed.org/northyorks/about-us/injury-on-duty/Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
The second paragraph leaps out. Plus ambulance chasing lawyers will fight for compensation.
The policewoman who suffered mental health issues because of the misogyny and sexual discrimination left the police because she was unable to continue under the conditions she faced so took the police to to an industrial tribunal, perhaps others should as well.
Obviously none of that is laid at the door of the Scottish Government but is endemic in police forces across the UK.
If your final sentence is aimed at me then I already stated earlier that I do not point the finger at the Scottish Government, it’s the system which allows excessive payouts of tax payers money to some and not for others who imho suffered with greater injuriesQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Not aimed at you, but wondered what it's got to do with the Scottish Government or indeed the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
The police federation should probably be making more of an effort on behalf of its members who are injured in the line of duty though.
New leaked report reveals £250m ferries may never sail:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/
No wonder Sturgeon's found an excuse to jet off to the US...
Ambulance chasing lawyers or lawyers that help poor people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
The law is there to help everyone, even those who don’t know they need it.
If either of my kids go into law I would be proud if they became ‘Ambulance chasers’.
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I did the first stage of my accountancy exams with her husband until he failed them repeatedly, left his job (probably asked to leave), and then concentrated on politics (he’s a Tory councillor in Glasgow). He was a very strange character. He seems to be sticking by her by the look of it. I’m surprised as it can’t look good for him - he stepped down as leader of Glasgow tories “for family reasons”.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Always struck me that they made a strange couple being so different politically.
Maybe the wrong phrase, but when I was looking for the link I posted it was preceded by ones for lawyers offering no win no fee compensation claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I know, I just feel those lawyers get a raw deal. They are the only type of lawyers most people can afford and yet they are somehow seen as less prestigious than the lawyers in big corporate firms helping oligarchs, gangsters and dictators hide their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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Dealt with both most of my working life, the existence of the big corporates and their wealthy clients coupled with the difficulty poor, or at least not very wealthy, have in getting access to affordable law means there's always a place for no win no fee arrangements, and all the other derogatory terms thrown at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
For what it's worth I say that from a mostly corporate and defendant angle.
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I agree with your views on the lack of effectiveness of custodial sentences. It's curious though that many members of the public see prison as not being used enough. Evident in some of the sometimes quite rabid comments on newspaper articles about convictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Working in forensic psychology a few years ago it seemed clear to me that prison was not really the answer and that more importantly this was a generally held view in the Ministry of Justice. Recall there were many studies and initiatives regarding diversion practices designed as alternatives to prison at that time and I'd imagine that's still the case.
So the first minister should be personally responsible for over seeing shipyards and inspecting these ferries herself?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I know this will be badged as whataboutery but you don't seem too upset about the Ajax armoured vehicles, HS2, Crossrail, the aircraft carriers, NHS computer system etc etc etc etc etc. The ferries hasn't been handled well at all but for **** sake get a bit of perspective. Every single one if those is way way more over spent than the ferries. In fact let's have a look at PPE, track and trace during the pandemic. I don't see you all over those issues. As I say this is not excusing what has gone in with the ferries but you are like a dog with a bone about it while ignoring everything elseQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
The buck stops with her (as she's admitted, though Mackay is being made the scapegoat).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Full sorry saga well summarised here:
https://www.theweek.co.uk/business/956731/scotland-ongoing-ferry-fiasco-explained
It's an SNP bashing thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Any sign of you talking about these things on the Tory thread then? Hypocrite. I am happy to criticise the Scottish government over ferries but you are completely blinkered about everything elseQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
'Scotland is a racist country'Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61455683
I don't think any of the issues you listed have been handled well, but my time on here tends to be limited and it seems to me there's plenty Tory bashing to go around, so I'll tend to proritise the SNP bashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Good for you. HypocriteQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
So she’s admitted and accepted the buck stops with her but you’re still twisting the knife? Seems fair. At least she, unlike her conservative counter parts, actually admits fault and takes blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Sorry to hear about your friend, however the two systems are not the same. Maybe the victims of crime system needs updating. Is shouldn't take away from the pain and suffering felt by the police woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Meanwhile, the misogynists need to be rooted out, for good. I'm sure they've started.
I think you maybe take this more seriously than me. There's no forum rule that states if you criticise the SNP you then have to pop over to the Tory thread and level things up. Or vice versa. Everyone knows the Westminster government have presided over a series of shambles, but I find it depressing that for as long as Boris Johnson is PM the SNP's own uninspiring standards of governance can be 'whatabouteried' away. As somebody else pointed out earlier on this thread being the 'least worst' option is a sorry reflection on the current standard of UK politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Sturgeon.....Attachment 25858Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
As I say. Complete and utter hypocrite. You do not ever criticise anything the Tories do. I am happy to criticise the Scottish government on ferries, education, anything I feel they could do better on. But you are just a constant rash over anything snp but not ever anything UK government or Tories. Try being balancedQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
This obviously riles you.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Believe it or not I regard myself as pretty balanced on here when it comes to remaining polite and respecting other opinions. I just happen to loathe the SNP and what they stand for. Doesn't mean I think the UK government is above criticism, far from it. It seems extraordinary that they look like soldiering on with Boris Johnson until the next election - although even more extraordinary is the fact Labour do not as yet appear to be sure of beating him.
There are what, a dozen or so regular posters on here (a sub-forum of a Hibs fans messageboard)? It's hardly a platform for setting the world to rights and for me it's mostly just a chance to sound off on issues which annoy me (and a few which don't). Whether or not I balance what annoys me about the SNP with what annoys me about the Tories doesn't seem that big a deal.
At least you admit that your postings are derived from a laothing of the SNP. Best ignored then as someone who will never be balanced no matter how much you try to say you are. As I say 100% hypocriteQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
https://www.thenational.scot/news/20127236.sheku-bayoh-police-scotland-accused-racism-incompetence/
Or maybe just police Scotland
Meanwhile.... https://www.thenational.scot/news/20139746.english-nationalism-issue-not-inclusive-approach-yessers-scotland-expert-says/
You need to calm down chief. Hardly hypocritical. Each sides are guilty of posting swayed to one side. Most of our posting is from a loathing of the tories. The harp part is trying to be as objective as possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Scotland obviously has racism problems like most nations, can be anti English sometimes unfortunately. I've found no matter if its US, English ,Scottish or Irish, flag ****gers are generally mental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
The more flags on their social media the worse. Good guys and ********s in every nation.
Perfectly calm. Chief! He is hypocritical, there is no balance at all from any of his posts. I am happy to say that the ferries have been badly handled, education is not where it should be etc. But he's here there and everywhere in his many guises has never once criticised the Tories or UK gov as far as I can see, so yes, hypocritical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Well 90% on here must be hypocritical too, because we're mostly all biased. It would be an awful echo chamber if everyone agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
I agree, needs all of us on all sides to make this place an enjoyable visit :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
What might be irritating them though is that you get the occasional 'Nicola's cheer leader ' type comment stating that no-one can admit she does anything wrong despite the evidence clearly showing that's not the case, in fact it's actually on the Tories thread you'll very rarely, if ever, find anything negative from a Tory leaning poster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Do you not loath the Tories ? If you do is in not reasonable to assume your posts are unbalanced and you are a hypocrite too ? :wink: