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None of the definitions have any corelation to us. We don't have foreign rule we have representation as a proportion of our population, we voted not long ago to stay in the union, two of the last 8 PMs were Scottish. What many would say are our most important issues, education, health, housing, social care, crime are all devolved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
Fully agree with that, we are not a colony. There is a problem with the withdrawal of self determination that we had in 2014. There is no longer a democratic route to independence. That is a problem going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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For anyone interested in the views of Prof Alf Baird here's a Youtube vid of him on the TNT Show a couple of weeks ago with John Drummond. Starts around 11 mins in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoX3jbDb710
100% we are a colony by definition, whether you agree with it or not is a different matter.
The fact that Starmer won’t grant another referendum no matter the result of the 2026 election further enhances the arguemeny we are a colony.
Part of being colonised is making people believe they aren’t colonised
I googled Alf Baird having never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
"Alf Baird was formerly Professor of Maritime Business and Director of the Maritime Transport Research Group at Edinburgh Napier University. He also has a PhD in Strategic Management in Global Shipping. His earlier career included working in the shipping industry running international liner shipping services from Scotland"
I mean he sounds like a clever guy but an expert on UN policy and colonies....
This is all related to the Salvo movement and the Claim of Right I believe. The Claim of Right is a hundreds years old document full of sectarian slurs, I am struggling to see how it has any relevance to a modern and progressive Scotland.
I mean let's see where it goes but I am 99.99% sure it goes absolutely nowhere.
Representation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I'll remind you of the quote by Daniel Defoe.
“The Scots will be allowed to send to Westminster, a handful of men who will make no weight whatever.
They will be allowed to sit there for form’s sake to be laughed at.”
That representation? :greengrin
Defoe was deed when Blair and Brown led Britain and when Scotland voted no to independence in a fair free electionQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
He's also been called in by various countries to solve maritime border disputes after decolonisation. Watch the vid or better still read the book I recommended then if you still think Scotland is not a colony then fair play, you've educated yourself and formed your own opinion based on those findings.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
I'm not sure what your point is regards the Claim of Rights being hundreds of years old unless you're trying to belittle it to suit your own argument, you wouldn't be doing that would you?. Most laws today are hundreds of years old and still adhered to in a modern society. Thou shall not murder is fairly old innit?
The sole purpose of Liberation Scotland is to take their case via the Swiss NGO to C-24 i.e. Special Committee on Decolonization in the UN and attempt to have Scotland listed as an NSGT (Non Self Governing Territory) if succesful it'll go on a list of countries which are deemed as a country which hasn't exercised it's right to self determination yet. At that point we can ask the UN to administer a referendum using their franchise i'e no outside influence from political or media sources and the voters have to be a citizen of that country only amongst other things I can't remember.
Ahhh that was before the six mandates democratically voted for another Independence referendum in six "fair free elections" and voting to stay in Europe only to be dragged out. I remember now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
TBF The Defoe quote still rings true today, I laugh at Wishart all the time.:greengrin
Good luck holding a referendum with no political or media influence in Scotland. I mean even saying that makes it sound kinda ridiculous. The UN have announced a referendum next February in Scotland but our politicians can't talk about it and the media can't discuss it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
As for the Claim of Rights I have looked at it to educate myself, it's a relic of a bygone day. Here is a quote from it.
"By allowing popish bookes to be printed and dispersed by a gift to a popish printer designeing him Printer to his Majesties househould Colledge and Chappell Contrair to the lawes
By takeing the children of Protestant Noblemen and gentlemen sending and keeping them abroad to be bred papists makeing great fonds and dotationes to popish schooles and Colledges abroad bestowing pensiones upon preists and perverting protestants from ther Religion by offers of places preferments and pensiones
By Dissarmeing protestants while at the same tyme he Imployed papists in the places of greatest trust civil and military such as Chancellor Secretaries Privie Counsellors and Lords of Sessione thrusting out protestants to make roome for papists and Intrusting the forts and magazins of the Kingdome in ther hands"
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1689/28
I just wouldn't get your hopes up that's all.
I’ve got my hopes up and I’m a well educated individual that has done his ‘research’.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
Any action whether realistic or unrealistic which builds the case for independence is fine by me
Great news, I take it the Act of Union 1707 is also a relic of a bygone age.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
Yes it is, we would never use it. It has been updated constantly by Parliament as parliamentary sovereignty takes precedence in the UK. Every time modern trade employment and economic laws change including Ireland joining the union in 1800 or brexit the law has to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
It's like headcases during covid citing magna carta thinking modern UK parliamentary law doesn't take precedence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
So if this is the case why does scotland have its own Scot’s law and not UK law and why is the scottish crown laying idle?
The claim by Salvo and liberation scotland is that the two countries constitution are incompatible with each other and the laws to reconcile both counties as per the act of union was never enacted, England merely took over, if the UK parliament is sovereign and new laws have taken precedent over act of union etc then why don’t we have one legal system for the whole UK?
Northern Ireland, Wales and England all use the same system?
All these claims whether you support it or not will ultimately be decided by the UN which is the point I suppose.
If you study the Salvo case and the definition of a colony, it’s very hard to come to any other conclusion that Scotland is a colony.
A further point, the NGO whose help was needed to approach the UN, they are wholly independent and they also fully support the claims. These are not some mad nut cases that support anything.
It will ultimately be decided by the people of Scotland, not the UN. There are no shortcuts here. First we need to make sure a majority want independence. The ‘how’ Will fall into place afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
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I don't think anyone is suggesting the UN will decide anything without the will of the majority of people. The case is to try and get Scotland recognised as an NSGT and if successful they can help facilitate "The How" if needed. It's just another avenue which is being explored, I don't see a problem with that, if you support Indy then why not support this until either it's successful or it's shot down?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8bf2d09b49.png
Two countries moving in a different directions.
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For anyone interested the SSRG Conference is taking place this weekend starting today. Live Youtube tickets can be purchased for the event at £5. Speakers like Jim Sillars, Tim Rideout, Sara Salyers, Tommy Sheridan and Richard Murphy are just some of the lineup.
https://www.ssrg-conference.com/agenda
Id love to watch some of it but the rangers game and a few beers wil get in the way!Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
Is Tommy Sheridan really people on the Independence side someone they want to be associated with? A quote from him below. I mean from the list above just add Craig Murray and you have a full set.
“Russia is not my enemy and their military action against Ukraine was provoked by the aggressive actions of NATO. Russia is justified in defending itself from NATO aggression. The US and NATO are the root cause of world instability not Russia or China.”
Which is why the SNP have nothing to do with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
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Entirely sensible move based on that line up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I follow a lot of the hard core independence guys and they often spout nonsense about ‘fascist Ukraine’.
It makes my blood boil but I suppose that’s a point about independence that I think needs reinforced over and over again.
Independence isn’t all about the SNP. In an independence scotland you can vote for whatever party matches your own beliefs, whether you’re a republican, anti-war, pro Palestinian, for Brexit or against it.
You can be pro-Russian and vote for a scottish communist party.
It generally amazes me how many people think that you’d be stuck with the SNP and their policies for ever if you yes.
I’d actually go as far to say that all pro-independence parties including the SNP should be disbanded in an independent scotland and new parties formed based on whatever policies they want to pursue.
You can even vote for a unionist party to rejoin Britain
Alba, ISP and others take that stance, not so much the SNP. It gets my goat when they come out with things like the Independence papers for post independence, it's nothing to do with them what happens post Independence that's down to a Constitutional Convention, perish the thought if Indy is gained that we revert to a mini Westminster type system, direct democracy all the way for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
Why does Scotland need to be Independent to vote for the parties or beliefs you list above? Republican, anti war, pro palestine, pro Russian etc. If there is demand for those parties today wouldn't they exist?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
Doesn’t have to be at all, I’m just pointing out that independence voters have all manner of different political beliefs
The SNP would probably survive as the only centre left party in Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
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Yeah but I think a new party should be formed. It can be the new SNP but a lot of floating voters don’t vote yes because they don’t like the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The SNP should be for getting independence. Once it’s achieved it should be disbanded and a new party with the same policies should be formed.
It’s like there is some independence supporters support Brexit. Once we are independent they can vote for an anti-EU party. But at this moment time the SNP are pro-EU so the potential yes voter won’t vote for the SNP.
I know the SNP would never agree to it but I genuinely feel it’s a key aspect in gaining independence
Just another point, the SNP should be a melting pot of all political views all coming together to gain independence. You should be able to be conservative financially and support independence or liberal and support all the transgender stuff that’s been going on all
Under the SNP roof.
I neither agree or disagree. I really don’t care what they do after Indy. I’m a mostly centrist voter so there will be someone who caters for my needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
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That’s what I mean, the SNP or new SNP can rebrand or re-align with whatever they feel is the most important issues for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If it’s centrist, centre left or whatever, but for the time being they have to be open to every political view in order to achieve their main priority.
Except for racists etc of course , but jets face it they’d never join or vote SNP anyway