Housing

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

We need all homes built 3,4 beds, student accommodation, flats, social housing.

We have one of the smallest amount of empty homes in Europe and an explosion of 30yo and under now living with their parents. Add in one of the highest net immigration in Europe and where are these people going to move into.

We need an enormous amount of houses built but no political party is interested.

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https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...ousing-3966840

More than 9000 empty homes in Edinburgh, I wonder why that can be?

Do you have a link to the stats on empty homes across Europe? I suppose it would only be meaningful if compared to cities of a similar size.

"More than 4,500 properties in Liverpool have been empty for at least six months, recent government figures show". https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...homes-21234082

"There are currently 2641 long term-empty homes in Glasgow, and the Local Housing Strategy 2023-28 has a target of 1800 empty homes being re-occupied over that period" https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=30758

" At a full council meeting earlier this week, Coun Mike Levery asked a series of questions on empty homes in Sheffield and he was told the total number of empty homes in the A-H tax band range was 6,922 at the end of 2023"-

https://thesouthyorkshirescoop.com/2...ys-councillor/

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...ousing-3966840

More than 9000 empty homes in Edinburgh, I wonder why that can be?

Do you have a link to the stats on empty homes across Europe? I suppose it would only be meaningful if compared to cities of a similar size.

"More than 4,500 properties in Liverpool have been empty for at least six months, recent government figures show". https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...homes-21234082

"There are currently 2641 long term-empty homes in Glasgow, and the Local Housing Strategy 2023-28 has a target of 1800 empty homes being re-occupied over that period" https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=30758

" At a full council meeting earlier this week, Coun Mike Levery asked a series of questions on empty homes in Sheffield and he was told the total number of empty homes in the A-H tax band range was 6,922 at the end of 2023"-

https://thesouthyorkshirescoop.com/2...ys-councillor/

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Empty homes should be taxed to within an inch of their lives. Council tax should also be due when planning permission is granted to stop builders sitting on plots for years.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...ousing-3966840

More than 9000 empty homes in Edinburgh, I wonder why that can be?

Do you have a link to the stats on empty homes across Europe? I suppose it would only be meaningful if compared to cities of a similar size.

"More than 4,500 properties in Liverpool have been empty for at least six months, recent government figures show". https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...homes-21234082

"There are currently 2641 long term-empty homes in Glasgow, and the Local Housing Strategy 2023-28 has a target of 1800 empty homes being re-occupied over that period" https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=30758

" At a full council meeting earlier this week, Coun Mike Levery asked a series of questions on empty homes in Sheffield and he was told the total number of empty homes in the A-H tax band range was 6,922 at the end of 2023"-

https://thesouthyorkshirescoop.com/2...ys-councillor/

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Yes I found it by going back on this thread.

Scotland has about 2% of homes lying empty that's thousands but only Switzerland and Iceland has less in Europe, England 3% Ireland 12%, Germany France 10%. Edinburgh is closer to 3%

https://www.gov.scot/publications/br...tland/pages/4/

Some graphs just to so how much further behind the rest of the world uk is for empty homes. Add into that we are expected to have net 400k immigration the next 5 years and ours will drop to the least in Europe

Article on UK having one of the lowest amount of empty homes in Europe, therfore highest rents

If we were to match the EU average for empty homes per 100k in the UK, we would have to build 3.5 million homes, to match German speaking Europe we would need 5 million. This is for UK Scotland has 50% less available

We also have one of the lowest percentage of people owning second homes and lowest percentage of landlords in Europe, as discussed a few pages back

https://thecritic.co.uk/why-britain-...e-empty-homes/

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Article on UK having one of the lowest amount of empty homes in Europe, therfore highest rents

If we were to match the EU average for empty homes per 100k in the UK, we would have to build 3.5 million homes, to match German speaking Europe we would need 5 million. This is for UK Scotland has 50% less available

We also have one of the lowest percentage of people owning second homes and lowest percentage of landlords in Europe, as discussed a few pages back

https://thecritic.co.uk/why-britain-...e-empty-homes/

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We've discussed this guy before. He is ultra right wing proponent of neoliberal social policy, not credible in my view.

Dr Kristian Niemietz is the IEA’s Editorial Director and Head of Political Economy at the IEA.

He studied Economics at the Humboldt University Berlin and the University of Salamanca, graduating in 2007 as Diplom-Volkswirt (≈MSc in Economics). During his studies, he interned at the Central Bank of Bolivia (2004), the National Statistics Office of Paraguay (2005), and at the IEA (2006). In 2013, he completed a PhD in Political Economy at King’s College London.

Kristian previously worked as a Research Fellow at the Berlin-based Institute for Free Enterprise (IUF), and at King’s College London, where he taught Economics throughout his postgraduate studies.

He is the author of the books A New Understanding of Poverty (2011), Redefining the Poverty Debate (2012), Universal Healthcare Without The NHS (2016) and Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies (2019).

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

We've discussed this guy before. He is ultra right wing proponent of neoliberal social policy, not credible in my view.

Dr Kristian Niemietz is the IEA’s Editorial Director and Head of Political Economy at the IEA.

He studied Economics at the Humboldt University Berlin and the University of Salamanca, graduating in 2007 as Diplom-Volkswirt (≈MSc in Economics). During his studies, he interned at the Central Bank of Bolivia (2004), the National Statistics Office of Paraguay (2005), and at the IEA (2006). In 2013, he completed a PhD in Political Economy at King’s College London.

Kristian previously worked as a Research Fellow at the Berlin-based Institute for Free Enterprise (IUF), and at King’s College London, where he taught Economics throughout his postgraduate studies.

He is the author of the books A New Understanding of Poverty (2011), Redefining the Poverty Debate (2012), Universal Healthcare Without The NHS (2016) and Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies (2019).

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Dismiss his point if you want, what about the figures they are from Scottish government and the oecd. You asked where I got the figures that we have one of the least empty homes in Europe, we actually have one of the least in the world

Scotland has 2% of homes lying empty, Edinburgh 3%

Only Switzerland and Iceland are bellow Scotland according to the oecd. Germany, France, Ireland and the US all have 4 to 5 times more empty houses driving down rents.

We would need millions of empty homes to match the EU average.

Just look at the graph.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Dismiss his point if you want, what about the figures they are from Scottish government and the oecd. You asked where I got the figures that we have one of the least empty homes in Europe, we actually have one of the least in the world

Scotland has 2% of homes lying empty, Edinburgh 3%

Only Switzerland and Iceland are bellow Scotland according to the oecd. Germany, France, Ireland and the US all have 4 to 5 times more empty houses driving down rents.

We would need millions of empty homes to match the EU average.

Just look at the graph.

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I'll definitely dismiss views from someone who is a senior figure in ultra right think tanks and a proponent of healthcare without an NHS :agree:

Fair points about homes that are empty. However statistics aren't the full story. Britain has always had a greater incidence of reliance on the rented property (social and private sector) than comparable European countries, How does that influence those statistics? Does it really matter how many homes are empty in Lithuania or Poland? I'm not so sure about your statement about empty houses driving down rents. Are rents really cheaper in the likes of Dublin (comparable ?) and Edinburgh?

TBH, I'm only really interested in Scotland and the impact of gentrification and social cleansing in the communities I know best. Housing is only one, albeit significant, manifestation of massive and social, health and economic inequality. There are many others.

I'm much more interested to know why Edinburgh has 9000 empty homes. As the statistics I posted show, that is a significantly higher number than other British cities of a similar size (Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle). Is it because property and home ownership is more commoditised than in comparable cities. People buying just for investment, or do we have lots more minted people who live in their second homes? Given the lucrative nature of the rental market here, compared to those other cities, you would imagine our empty house numbers to be lower.....maybe they're all being air b'nb by tax avoidant ruthless capitalist pigs? :wink:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I'll definitely dismiss views from someone who is a senior figure in ultra right think tanks and a proponent of healthcare without an NHS :agree:

Fair points about homes that are empty. However statistics aren't the full story. Britain has always had a greater incidence of reliance on the rented property (social and private sector) than comparable European countries, How does that influence those statistics? Does it really matter how many homes are empty in Lithuania or Poland? I'm not so sure about your statement about empty houses driving down rents. Are rents really cheaper in the likes of Dublin (comparable ?) and Edinburgh?

TBH, I'm only really interested in Scotland and the impact of gentrification and social cleansing in the communities I know best. Housing is only one, albeit significant, manifestation of massive and social, health and economic inequality. There are many others.

I'm much more interested to know why Edinburgh has 9000 empty homes. As the statistics I posted show, that is a significantly higher number than other British cities of a similar size (Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle). Is it because property and home ownership is more commoditised than in comparable cities. People buying just for investment, or do we have lots more minted people who live in their second homes? Given the lucrative nature of the rental market here, compared to those other cities, you would imagine our empty house numbers to be lower.....maybe they're all being air b'nb by tax avoidant ruthless capitalist pigs? :wink:

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Loads in Europe have a much higher percentage of renters like Germany where its the norm. They also have over 4 times the spare homes than Scotland, three times Edinburgh.

9000 sounds a lot but at 3% of homes free that would still be the third smallest of any oecd nation.

Uk has one of the lowest amount of landlords in Europe and people owning second homes so we can't really blame that for prices. What we do have is a fraction of the spare homes compared with every nation. Where are the youth living with parents going to move into when we also have massive immigration figures. It's a sellers market. The most simple of economics says bild more and the landlords have less power to charge what they want.

If we are expecting 400k net immigration per year we obviously need that as a minimum that but it should be nearer 1 million. We've been averaging close to 700k net migration and building 200k homes them wondering why house prices are rising 😆

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Loads in Europe have a much higher percentage of renters like Germany where its the norm. They also have over 4 times the spare homes than Scotland, three times Edinburgh.

9000 sounds a lot but at 3% of homes free that would still be the third smallest of any oecd nation.

Uk has one of the lowest amount of landlords in Europe and people owning second homes so we can't really blame that for prices. What we do have is a fraction of the spare homes compared with every nation. Where are the youth living with parents going to move into when we also have massive immigration figures. It's a sellers market. The most simple of economics says bild more and the landlords have less power to charge what they want.

If we are expecting 400k net immigration per year we obviously need that as a minimum that but it should be nearer 1 million. We've been averaging close to 700k net migration and building 200k homes them wondering why house prices are rising [emoji38]

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That’s it in a nutshell. We either need less people or more houses.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I'll definitely dismiss views from someone who is a senior figure in ultra right think tanks and a proponent of healthcare without an NHS :agree:

Fair points about homes that are empty. However statistics aren't the full story. Britain has always had a greater incidence of reliance on the rented property (social and private sector) than comparable European countries, How does that influence those statistics? Does it really matter how many homes are empty in Lithuania or Poland? I'm not so sure about your statement about empty houses driving down rents. Are rents really cheaper in the likes of Dublin (comparable ?) and Edinburgh?

TBH, I'm only really interested in Scotland and the impact of gentrification and social cleansing in the communities I know best. Housing is only one, albeit significant, manifestation of massive and social, health and economic inequality. There are many others.

I'm much more interested to know why Edinburgh has 9000 empty homes. As the statistics I posted show, that is a significantly higher number than other British cities of a similar size (Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle). Is it because property and home ownership is more commoditised than in comparable cities. People buying just for investment, or do we have lots more minted people who live in their second homes? Given the lucrative nature of the rental market here, compared to those other cities, you would imagine our empty house numbers to be lower.....maybe they're all being air b'nb by tax avoidant ruthless capitalist pigs? :wink:

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Dublin situation worse than here.


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I passed by the Cala development today at Maybury, out of interest I looked up the prices and the cheapest 2 bed flat is £340k going upto £1.265m for a five beddy house. It'd be interesting to see the ratio of these flats purchased for private rental. They just screamed foreign investor rental properties to me and at that price I shudder to think the rent they would command. Edinburgh seems to be going the same as Manchester in building thousands of flats which are useless for families and less decent family sized homes, pension funds financing huge tower blocks solely for private rentals. It wasn't that long ago that we moved out of Edinburgh to West Lothian into a Scottish Special new build along with thousands of others and also witnessed LDC build 10's of thousands of affordable rental properties in Livingston so it's doable. Council yards in every town which created 1,000's of good well paid jobs for school leavers to upkeep the stock and it's all gone.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Loads in Europe have a much higher percentage of renters like Germany where its the norm. They also have over 4 times the spare homes than Scotland, three times Edinburgh.

9000 sounds a lot but at 3% of homes free that would still be the third smallest of any oecd nation.

Uk has one of the lowest amount of landlords in Europe and people owning second homes so we can't really blame that for prices. What we do have is a fraction of the spare homes compared with every nation. Where are the youth living with parents going to move into when we also have massive immigration figures. It's a sellers market. The most simple of economics says bild more and the landlords have less power to charge what they want.

If we are expecting 400k net immigration per year we obviously need that as a minimum that but it should be nearer 1 million. We've been averaging close to 700k net migration and building 200k homes them wondering why house prices are rising ��

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Looking at population and housing across the UK us very different from considering population and housing in Scotland. Clearly, England is a very different entity ( massive densely populated) to the other home nations and that creates a very skewed picture. Housing is a devolved responsibility, what applies to our 57 million neighbours doesn’t always translate to Scotland and it’s much less densely populated 5.5 million. The net migration stats you quote are hugely influenced by the scandalous social care sponsorship programme. It’s a temporary measure and I know it’s already beginning to unravel, with systemic issues with modern day slavery, totally **** care and of course the denial of a decent living wage to our non sponsorship social care staff

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Dismiss his point if you want, what about the figures they are from Scottish government and the oecd. You asked where I got the figures that we have one of the least empty homes in Europe, we actually have one of the least in the world

Scotland has 2% of homes lying empty, Edinburgh 3%

Only Switzerland and Iceland are bellow Scotland according to the oecd. Germany, France, Ireland and the US all have 4 to 5 times more empty houses driving down rents.

We would need millions of empty homes to match the EU average.

Just look at the graph.

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I'm not sure what the home ownership figures are in Germany and am on the bounce so no time to look, but there's definitely a cultural difference when it comes to owning your own home over here. Germans tend to move around more than Brits, I guess that makes renting more attractive than buying. I think the laws governing landlords and what standards they have to hold makes it less attractive as a business model too.

Like I said, just a gut feeling and happy to be corrected.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...utm_source=app

Everyone seems to thing council houses are the solution but surely not if they leave them empty?


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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I think that is the system working exactly as it was intended to work.

I'm not convinced mass home ownership was ever meant to last more than a generation or 2 and relying on peoples inherent desire to protect their own equity/financial well being as a tool to control that was quite probably a big part of the plan. A bit of inter generational conflict that sees the proles fighting among themselves is a decent distraction from focusing on the real 'enemy'.

The fact the state managed to shed responsibility for huge swathes of social housing and put the replacement into the hands of the private sector is a nice little bonus. The slow but steady shift to housing being provided by for profit associations either as stand alone or in partnership with the more typical not for profits is a sad but inevitable next step.

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Unfortunately political parties and the media are adept at creating such situations, and, even more unfortunately, many of the public fall for it

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...ng-the-cranes/

Austin in Texas freed up planning and started building lots of housing. And rents plummeted as a result. We know what works, it just needs political will.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...ng-the-cranes/

Austin in Texas freed up planning and started building lots of housing. And rents plummeted as a result. We know what works, it just needs political will.


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Demand v supply! Who would guess? Worked in Vienna as well.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...ng-the-cranes/

Austin in Texas freed up planning and started building lots of housing. And rents plummeted as a result. We know what works, it just needs political will.


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Another view on Austin’s housing issues
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09...bility-zoning/

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Another view on Austin’s housing issues
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09...bility-zoning/

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Is that from before they changed the planning rules?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Is that from before they changed the planning rules?


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The article is dated September 2023, I imagine the information would have been current at that time. It’s unlikely that planning rule changes after that date would have resulted in a significant change in such a short time

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Another view on Austin’s housing issues
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09...bility-zoning/

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Interesting article, presenting different views and perspectives on the impact of the housing crisis, gentrification and planning restrictions.

Not sure how much of it relates to Scotland, where we have a very different approach to planning and in Edinburgh in particular where prices are influenced by other factors too, like the huge market for student accommodation and the impact of short term, tourist lets.

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/hou...rent-increases

Unconcerned by the evidence it forced rents up, they are back for more. I don’t think what’s good for tenants is actually what matters to them.[emoji35]
Just build more bloody houses you idiots.


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Housing emergency, homelessness and house prices rising, no new affordable homes being built in Edinburgh in the next year..

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news...paign=sharebar


Edinburgh Council says it does not expect to green light any new affordable homes for at least the next year, after £200m was slashed from the Scottish Government’s housing budget.

The cut will leave the capital £11m worse off – with anticipated central grant funding for affordable housebuilding reduced by nearly a quarter

SG to declare national housing emergency today. All very good but it needs to be accompanied by an actual plan to build more houses. And that means serious planning reform.


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Average rent also up 8.8% in the year to £1223 per month, London at £2121 and Edinburgh at £1259. Wow

Someone seems to have the completely opposite problem.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...00146952782056

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Someone seems to have the completely opposite problem.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...00146952782056

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Too many homes so house prices fall. They have a demographic nightmare, the population halving to 750 million by 2100. Cities of 10 million going down to 5 with half of homes lying empty is mad

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

SG to declare national housing emergency today. All very good but it needs to be accompanied by an actual plan to build more houses. And that means serious planning reform.


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They called it six months after refusing to do so, after cutting nearly £200 from the affordable housing budget and only when they realised they may lose a vote in Holyrood as Labour pushed for it. That doesn’t look like the actions of a Government acting with genuine urgency. No wonder people are so cynical about the priorities of politicians.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

They called it six months after refusing to do so, after cutting nearly £200 from the affordable housing budget and only when they realised they may lose a vote in Holyrood as Labour pushed for it. That doesn’t look like the actions of a Government acting with genuine urgency. No wonder people are so cynical about the priorities of politicians.

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The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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We get 30% more than England to spend surely we cab find the money if its an emergency, that is what creating a budget is.

Calling a housing emergency is just words if it isn't followed with action. SNP have previously called a climate emergency then cut climate targets, called a drug deaths emergency then had the highest drug deaths in Europe still 3 years later. I don't think Labour will do anything in any meaningful way on housing either in fact they are talking about introducing caps so expect rents to rocket in England like it did here

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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Yet Yousaf found another £80 million the day it became obvious that his job was under threat? Again, no wonder people are cynical about our politicians.

Good article. It's crazy we don't have a massive public house building program during a housing emergency

110,000 families in Scotland on a waiting list for a social rented house. Scot gov promise 77,000 new social rental houses in Scotland… by 2032.

https://commonweal.scot/scotlands-ho...olicy-is-nuts/

Scotland’s housing policy is nuts

Robin McAlpine

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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The SG's capital budget was cut by 7.1% in real terms, yet the housing budget was cut by 27% in real terms. It was a political choice by the SNP to cut the housing budget so significantly.

https://digitalpublications.parliame...926ad7f0c.dita

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Good article. It's crazy we don't have a massive public house building program during a housing emergency

110,000 families in Scotland on a waiting list for a social rented house. Scot gov promise 77,000 new social rental houses in Scotland… by 2032.

https://commonweal.scot/scotlands-ho...olicy-is-nuts/

Scotland’s housing policy is nuts

Robin McAlpine

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Good article mostly. The bit about borrowing to invest in housing is just common sense. What I’m not sure about is if the SG is allowed to do this?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Good article mostly. The bit about borrowing to invest in housing is just common sense. What I’m not sure about is if the SG is allowed to do this?


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I don't think the SG could borrow the amounts needed here but can't the local councils do it?

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

I’m a bit of a broken record on this but it does now appear that the problems are starting to be noticed by the media and politicians. We are still some way from the politicians offering proper solutions but it’s a start.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

I’m a bit of a broken record on this but it does now appear that the problems are starting to be noticed by the media and politicians. We are still some way from the politicians offering proper solutions but it’s a start.


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That's horrifying. Uk the home of homelessness since 2010, tories should put that on the side of a bus

I used to (co)rent a flat in bruntsfield when I was a student - £1,300 for a 4 bed. £325 each. (2011)

Inflationary increase would make it £1,850. It's back on the marke for £3,200 - £800 a head.

I left a wall clock there accidentally and it's still there in the photos so it's not had a drastic makeover in that time.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I used to (co)rent a flat in bruntsfield when I was a student - £1,300 for a 4 bed. £325 each. (2011)

Inflationary increase would make it £1,850. It's back on the marke for £3,200 - £800 a head.

I left a wall clock there accidentally and it's still there in the photos so it's not had a drastic makeover in that time.

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The rent cap has rocketed rent over the last year. The reality is there is a massive shortage of supply. UK govt tax policy not helping either. There are a lack of new landlords willing to buy properties off plan which is curtailing new developments.
Housing policy in this country is designed to create a shortage.


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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...b2c531baf5b2bb
More on the harm caused to renters from the rent cap. A disastrous policy.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...b2c531baf5b2bb
More on the harm caused to renters from the rent cap. A disastrous policy.


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"Paul McLennan, the housing minister, said: “These statistics for Scotland are based predominantly on newly advertised rents and do not take into account in-tenancy rent increases, which were initially frozen and then kept at 3 per cent in most cases while our emergency legislation was in place.

“They do not represent the whole private rented sector in Scotland, so are not suitable for making like-for-like comparisons with other parts of the UK.”


Importantly this data is based on advertised rents or new market rents, which
only cover about 35% of the private renters population (Scottish Household
survey 2022, 2019). A more accurate understand of rent increases throughout
both new and existing properties would take into account new market rent
increase (+14.3%) as well as the rent cap (3%) and find an average increase of
7.6% increase

● According to the Office of National Statistics, in the last 12 months to
December 2023, average rents increased by 8.8% in England, 9% in Wales and
10.9% in Scotland. Again, only new market rents were considered in Scotland
when both new market rents and existing rents were measured elsewhere.
This leads to a picture of over inflated rents in Scotland
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/liv...pdf?1715964750

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

"Paul McLennan, the housing minister, said: “These statistics for Scotland are based predominantly on newly advertised rents and do not take into account in-tenancy rent increases, which were initially frozen and then kept at 3 per cent in most cases while our emergency legislation was in place.

“They do not represent the whole private rented sector in Scotland, so are not suitable for making like-for-like comparisons with other parts of the UK.”


Importantly this data is based on advertised rents or new market rents, which
only cover about 35% of the private renters population (Scottish Household
survey 2022, 2019). A more accurate understand of rent increases throughout
both new and existing properties would take into account new market rent
increase (+14.3%) as well as the rent cap (3%) and find an average increase of
7.6% increase

● According to the Office of National Statistics, in the last 12 months to
December 2023, average rents increased by 8.8% in England, 9% in Wales and
10.9% in Scotland. Again, only new market rents were considered in Scotland
when both new market rents and existing rents were measured elsewhere.
This leads to a picture of over inflated rents in Scotland
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/liv...pdf?1715964750

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This is always a problem with rent caps though and the longer they last, the worse the problem gets. They protect older existing Scottish tenants at the expense of younger Scot’s and immigrants to Scotland. How is that fair?
Price fixing never works and always leads to the collapse of supply, whether it’s houses, tractors, pints of milk or carrots. It doesn’t matter the product, once the price you can charge drops below the price of producing then people naturally stop supplying.
That’s why house building projects are currently being cancelled or put on hold in Scotland.
This thread has been running a long time and in all that time, with many requests made, nobody has posted an example of a successful rent cap policy from anywhere in the world? Wonder why that is?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The rent cap has rocketed rent over the last year. The reality is there is a massive shortage of supply. UK govt tax policy not helping either. There are a lack of new landlords willing to buy properties off plan which is curtailing new developments.
Housing policy in this country is designed to create a shortage.


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I know a letting agent who was given 10 brand new flats from one of his existing clients to manage, they're foreign and he's never met them. I'm not sure if foreign investors pay the same Landlords LBT or not but obviously they don't pay the same income tax I wouldn't of thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

"Paul McLennan, the housing minister, said: “These statistics for Scotland are based predominantly on newly advertised rents and do not take into account in-tenancy rent increases, which were initially frozen and then kept at 3 per cent in most cases while our emergency legislation was in place.

“They do not represent the whole private rented sector in Scotland, so are not suitable for making like-for-like comparisons with other parts of the UK.”


Importantly this data is based on advertised rents or new market rents, which
only cover about 35% of the private renters population (Scottish Household
survey 2022, 2019). A more accurate understand of rent increases throughout
both new and existing properties would take into account new market rent
increase (+14.3%) as well as the rent cap (3%) and find an average increase of
7.6% increase

● According to the Office of National Statistics, in the last 12 months to
December 2023, average rents increased by 8.8% in England, 9% in Wales and
10.9% in Scotland. Again, only new market rents were considered in Scotland
when both new market rents and existing rents were measured elsewhere.
This leads to a picture of over inflated rents in Scotland
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/liv...pdf?1715964750

---

Btw, I work in this industry and I’m seeing rent rises higher than the figures above. They have started to ease slightly now that the cap is mostly gone but a lot of damage has been done. It’s a real shame for tenants.


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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

I know a letting agent who was given 10 brand new flats from one of his existing clients to manage, they're foreign and he's never met them. I'm not sure if foreign investors pay the same Landlords LBT or not but obviously they don't pay the same income tax I wouldn't of thought.

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They will pay LBTT but not income tax if they are not resident here.
Think of it positively in that their commitment to buy 10 flats, probably off plan, may have been what got the project green lit by the banks in the first place.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Btw, I work in this industry and I’m seeing rent rises higher than the figures above. They have started to ease slightly now that the cap is mostly gone but a lot of damage has been done. It’s a real shame for tenants.


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Of course you do, and you also know better than the Office of National Statistics.

I agree, it is shame for the tenants.

For anyone concerned about rent rises, poor quality rented accommodation and any other tenancy issues, there is support out there.

Living Rent have been doing fantastic work at local and national level.

https://www.livingrent.org/the_peoples_rent_freeze

A bit of a read but an action plan put forward by former housing minister Alex Neil. Certainly interesting, whether you agree if it's possible or not is debatable but it's at least a step forward from just declaring an emergency.

https://www.yesthink.scot/p/former-h...ister-launches

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

A bit of a read but an action plan put forward by former housing minister Alex Neil. Certainly interesting, whether you agree if it's possible or not is debatable but it's at least a step forward from just declaring an emergency.

https://www.yesthink.scot/p/former-h...ister-launches

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One of the best articles I’ve read from a politician on the issue. There is very little to disagree on in there? What is needed now is political will.


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https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...g-much-sooner/


Another Springfield village of 3000 homes near Stirling. IMHO Springfield are a good developer as they provide the infrastructure for shops, offices and small businesses within their departments.

As part of my awakening to the realisation that all mainstream political parties lack the will to make the changes our citizens need to access fair rental accommodation, I've been drawn towards community activist groups. Living Rent are doing fantastic work in our communities, across a whole range of issues. I really welcome the support they are providing to people in their struggles with exploitative landlords.

"Leith Members Stuart and Rory and Violette and Fatima from Fountainbridge, just won a total £5300 of rent rebates in negotiation with DJ Alexander!

Stuart and Rory had gone without heating for a year, and Violette, Fatima and their flatmates had broken drafty windows, mould and painted-over lights with no action for months and wanted compensation for the time their homes wasn't suitable to live in.

After low offers from their landlords they went to action a couple weeks ago to demand a meeting with executives. Two very successful negotiations later they agreed to £2.5k and £2.8k for the Leith and Fountainbridge cases respectively. This came on top of repairs to the property from DJ Alexander, such as new windows which improves the quality of our homes long term.

If you are having repair issues in your home with you letting agent, housing association or the council, come along to one of our meetings".

https://www.livingrent.org/?fbclid=I...R828YiMrmQbo1S

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

As part of my awakening to the realisation that all mainstream political parties lack the will to make the changes our citizens need to access fair rental accommodation, I've been drawn towards community activist groups. Living Rent are doing fantastic work in our communities, across a whole range of issues. I really welcome the support they are providing to people in their struggles with exploitative landlords.

"Leith Members Stuart and Rory and Violette and Fatima from Fountainbridge, just won a total £5300 of rent rebates in negotiation with DJ Alexander!

Stuart and Rory had gone without heating for a year, and Violette, Fatima and their flatmates had broken drafty windows, mould and painted-over lights with no action for months and wanted compensation for the time their homes wasn't suitable to live in.

After low offers from their landlords they went to action a couple weeks ago to demand a meeting with executives. Two very successful negotiations later they agreed to £2.5k and £2.8k for the Leith and Fountainbridge cases respectively. This came on top of repairs to the property from DJ Alexander, such as new windows which improves the quality of our homes long term.

If you are having repair issues in your home with you letting agent, housing association or the council, come along to one of our meetings".

https://www.livingrent.org/?fbclid=I...R828YiMrmQbo1S

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really fantastic organisation IMO :aok:

have to say though, those landlords have gotten off lightly. is there something like a license that can be removed when stuff like this happens? if not, could it be workable?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

really fantastic organisation IMO :aok:

have to say though, those landlords have gotten off lightly. is there something like a license that can be removed when stuff like this happens? if not, could it be workable?

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Yup, there is a Landlord license and an additional one for HMO (multiple occupancy) flats.

The landlord register is publicly accessible online although some landlords put their letting agency details in rather than their own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Yup, there is a Landlord license and an additional one for HMO (multiple occupancy) flats.

The landlord register is publicly accessible online although some landlords put their letting agency details in rather than their own.

---

As far as I know, you are not allowed to put letting agent down on register?
Honestly, the worst landlords tend to be in the public/social housing sector. You do get some bad landlords in private sector but most are decent.
Usually the poorest in private sector are amateur landlords who don’t realise the level of maintenance required and how often it needs carried out. They don’t mean to be bad landlords but the result is the same.
Councils and housing association have no such excuse.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

As far as I know, you are not allowed to put letting agent down on register?
Honestly, the worst landlords tend to be in the public/social housing sector. You do get some bad landlords in private sector but most are decent.
Usually the poorest in private sector are amateur landlords who don’t realise the level of maintenance required and how often it needs carried out. They don’t mean to be bad landlords but the result is the same.
Councils and housing association have no such excuse.


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Private landlords are mostly decent and the ones that aren’t don’t mean to be bad?. You make capitalism sound almost charitable. Are you a private landlord by any chance? :greengrin

Our councils provide housing at a much lower rent then the private sector. They do a pretty decent job considering the constraints they work under including the effects of the underfunded council tax freeze.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Private landlords are mostly decent and the ones that aren’t don’t mean to be bad?. You make capitalism sound almost charitable. Are you a private landlord by any chance? :greengrin

Our councils provide housing at a much lower rent then the private sector. They do a pretty decent job considering the constraints they work under including the effects of the underfunded council tax freeze.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3...n=share-mobile

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Originally Posted by Colr

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3...n=share-mobile

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Thanks for that, interesting stuff which shows how effective a properly funded public housing sector can be. Secure long term tenancies which can be inherited by family members with reasonable rents in high quality housing as good housing is seen as a right. The fact that 80% of city apartments are publicly owned and that 80% of the population qualifies for subsidised housing jumped out, that enables people to remain in those areas rather than being pushed out by those exploiting the system for private gain. If only one of the major parties was bold enough to take those ideas on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Thanks for that, interesting stuff which shows how effective a properly funded public housing sector can be. Secure long term tenancies which can be inherited by family members with reasonable rents in high quality housing as good housing is seen as a right. The fact that 80% of city apartments are publicly owned and that 80% of the population qualifies for subsidised housing jumped out, that enables people to remain in those areas rather than being pushed out by those exploiting the system for private gain. If only one of the major parties was bold enough to take those ideas on.

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It’s possible if the subsidy comes from the rents generated. If you want it to come from general taxation then there is no chance. Although the housing benefit bill already subsidises a lot of housing.
Public housing needs to massively increased in this country, no doubt about it. The only way to do it will be by borrowing and that will only be achieved by leveraging the rents received.
The subsidy bit can come later, right now they just need to start building.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

As far as I know, you are not allowed to put letting agent down on register?
Honestly, the worst landlords tend to be in the public/social housing sector. You do get some bad landlords in private sector but most are decent.
Usually the poorest in private sector are amateur landlords who don’t realise the level of maintenance required and how often it needs carried out. They don’t mean to be bad landlords but the result is the same.
Councils and housing association have no such excuse.

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You sound like Maureen Urquhart's brief, trying to keep her fine down! :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Thanks for that, interesting stuff which shows how effective a properly funded public housing sector can be. Secure long term tenancies which can be inherited by family members with reasonable rents in high quality housing as good housing is seen as a right. The fact that 80% of city apartments are publicly owned and that 80% of the population qualifies for subsidised housing jumped out, that enables people to remain in those areas rather than being pushed out by those exploiting the system for private gain. If only one of the major parties was bold enough to take those ideas on.

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Quite a bit of talk in Labour about intermediate rent as well as social rent to increase supply and pull the overall market back. Trouble is in London, the temporary accommodation budgets are massive so social needs to be prioritised. Could work, though, if they ramp up supply on public land. They’ll have to borrow and prsuade the Treasury its spend to save (which it is).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/...team=editorial

Another scheme that will push prices higher still. These people are mad.
How about building more homes?


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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...g-much-sooner/


Another Springfield village of 3000 homes near Stirling. IMHO Springfield are a good developer as they provide the infrastructure for shops, offices and small businesses within their departments.

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We are actually on the mailing list for this site, their other developments look good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/...team=editorial

Another scheme that will push prices higher still. These people are mad.
How about building more homes?


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Saw this on x 😆
Attachment 27972

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Saw this on x [emoji38]
Attachment 27972

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[emoji23]


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Rishi just said he’d bring back Help To Buy. [emoji35]


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20 new affordable houses to be built on existing sites in the middle of pitlochry. Moving leisure and library facilities to an enlarged school campus. Passed at council today.

Small number in the large scheme of things but a large number for a town the size of pitlochry.

https://x.com/timesradio/status/1803...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good interview about housing and planning in the UK.


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https://news.stv.tv/east-central/jud...lanning-battle

Planning stopping more housing.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/jud...lanning-battle

Planning stopping more housing.


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11 year planning battle 😆. This country is tremendous, Andy and Judy should take it to another European country, all of them would take it and their planning isn't decided by wee old local council groups

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

11 year planning battle [emoji38]. This country is tremendous, Andy and Judy should take it to another European country, all of them would take it and their planning isn't decided by wee old local council groups

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It’s almost like we enjoy being poor.


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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

11 year planning battle 😆. This country is tremendous, Andy and Judy should take it to another European country, all of them would take it and their planning isn't decided by wee old local council groups

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Always going to lose when it's on prime agricultural land in the greenbelt. They should have built it in the garden of Cromlix House.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Always going to lose when it's on prime agricultural land in the greenbelt. They should have built it in the garden of Cromlix House.

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This is lost on the proponents of right wing influenced babble on planning and consent.

Of course, it wasn't just a proposal to build some tennis courts;

"A four-star hotel, multi-user sports pitch, museum, visitor centre and 19 houses were also planned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

This is lost on the proponents of right wing influenced babble on planning and consent.

Of course, it wasn't just a proposal to build some tennis courts;

"A four-star hotel, multi-user sports pitch, museum, visitor centre and 19 houses were also planned.

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On prime agricultural land in the greenbelt. That's why it failed to get approval.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

On prime agricultural land in the greenbelt. That's why it failed to get approval.

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On closer inspection, it did get approval.

"However, Scottish ministers overruled the decision, external, saying the benefits of the £37.5m plan would "outweigh" the loss of greenbelt land.

Approval is subject to 22 conditions set out by the government.

The development, which is backed by Judy Murray, includes luxury housing, 12 tennis courts, a golf academy, hotel and visitor centre.

Ministers approved the plan despite a Scottish government-appointed reporter recommending that the appeal be refused., external

However, they rejected the developer's claim for an award of expenses against Stirling Council, saying they agreed with the reporter's finding that the authority had not acted in an "unreasonable manner".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ntral-59742106

"
The development was also dependent on the building of luxury housing on the Park of Keir site, which was particularly unpopular with campaigners. Ultimately, a lack of investment in the project led to Judy Murray and her Murray Play Foundation deciding that it could not go ahead without public funding to cover the increased construction costs of the £20m facility.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...d=BingNewsSerp

We’re world class at finding reasons not to build. There is barely a single crane in Edinburgh’s skyline just now. [emoji2369]


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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

This is lost on the proponents of right wing influenced babble on planning and consent.

Of course, it wasn't just a proposal to build some tennis courts;

"A four-star hotel, multi-user sports pitch, museum, visitor centre and 19 houses were also planned.

---

It's the right wing the tories and older people that are generally more swayed to Nimbyism. The younger sections of the greens and labour want houses. Old people who have nice big houses saying we shouldn't build houses to the youth who have no homes is as abhorrent as you can get. 42% of under 35s now live with their parents. Anyone happy in their own home telling those living with parents that we don't need more homes built have a brass neck

When Germany said it wanted to stop the tax breaks on farming and cut nitrogen use, as farms are such big polluters, it was the far right that protested. The oxygen conservation estimates we need to convert 22% of our current farmland to nature if we want net zero.
https://www.oxygenconservation.com/news-events/the-unsettling-truth-about-uk-land-use/#:~:text=Creating%20Space%20for%20Conservation,woo dland%20creation%20and%20peatland%20restoration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It's the right wing the tories and older people that are generally more swayed to Nimbyism. The younger sections of the greens and labour want houses. Old people who have nice big houses saying we shouldn't build houses to the youth who have no homes is as abhorrent as you can get. 42% of under 35s now live with their parents. Anyone happy in their own home telling those living with parents that we don't need more homes built have a brass neck

When Germany said it wanted to stop the tax breaks on farming and cut nitrogen use, as farms are such big polluters, it was the far right that protested. The oxygen conservation estimates we need to convert 22% of our current farmland to nature if we want net zero.
https://www.oxygenconservation.com/n...%20restoration.

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House prices are way disproportionate to wages. There are plenty houses, it's just that young people can't afford them.

Anyway, back to the Murray story. Permission was actually granted for the development, they wanted the public purse to part fund their hotel, luxury housing , tennis and golf development and pulled out due to rising costs etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It's the right wing the tories and older people that are generally more swayed to Nimbyism. The younger sections of the greens and labour want houses. Old people who have nice big houses saying we shouldn't build houses to the youth who have no homes is as abhorrent as you can get. 42% of under 35s now live with their parents. Anyone happy in their own home telling those living with parents that we don't need more homes built have a brass neck

When Germany said it wanted to stop the tax breaks on farming and cut nitrogen use, as farms are such big polluters, it was the far right that protested. The oxygen conservation estimates we need to convert 22% of our current farmland to nature if we want net zero.
https://www.oxygenconservation.com/news-events/the-unsettling-truth-about-uk-land-use/#:~:text=Creating%20Space%20for%20Conservation,woo dland%20creation%20and%20peatland%20restoration.

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Do you think that the luxury homes at the Murray tennis club would be affordable to young people??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

House prices are way disproportionate to wages. There are plenty houses, it's just that young people can't afford them.

Anyway, back to the Murray story. Permission was actually granted for the development, they wanted the public purse to part fund their hotel, luxury housing , tennis and golf development and pulled out due to rising costs etc.

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We have the the lowest vacanct houses of every oecd nation 2% free. Germany and France have 8% vacant.
https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HM1-1-Housing-stock-and-construction.pdf

We would need to build 3 million homes just to have the same % of spare homes as Germany. Some cities like London 0.7% and Manchester 0.5% are worse. Paris is having a building push as the number of spare homes has dropped to 6% and they want it back up to 8% to lower prices

We do not have enough homes, that could not be more wrong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Do you think that the luxury homes at the Murray tennis club would be affordable to young people??

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No it's only 16 homes. The hotel would bring jobs to a rural area and the tennis centre would help the community and the youth of Scotland. Andy had to move to Spain as we had no facilities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

No it's only 16 homes. The hotel would bring jobs to a rural area and the tennis centre would help the community and the youth of Scotland. Andy had to move to Spain as we had no facilities.

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I think you should read more about the development and why there was opposition to it.

I'll leave one that with you, keep in mind that permission was actually granted, though with proviso's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

House prices are way disproportionate to wages. There are plenty houses, it's just that young people can't afford them.

Anyway, back to the Murray story. Permission was actually granted for the development, they wanted the public purse to part fund their hotel, luxury housing , tennis and golf development and pulled out due to rising costs etc.

---

We have plenty houses? [emoji102]
If we have plenty houses then why are they so expensive?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

We have plenty houses? [emoji102]
If we have plenty houses then why are they so expensive?


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Greed. We could spend all day debating why that is so. and why the private sector are not going to solve the housing crisis, no matter how many houses they build. I

However, you claimed that planning stopped housing development.

Clearly that was nonsense, given that in the situation you were posting about permission was actually granted? The developers themselves cited rising costs and a number of other factors as to why they pulled out of their hotel, luxury housing, tennis and golf academy plans.

"significant increases in construction, material, energy and labour costs, a lengthy and uncertain planning process, and protracted discussions with governing bodies” were among the factors behind the decision.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Greed. We could spend all day debating why that is so. and why the private sector are not going to solve the housing crisis, no matter how many houses they build. I

However, you claimed that planning stopped housing development.

Clearly that was nonsense, given that in the situation you were posting about permission was actually granted? The developers themselves cited rising costs and a number of other factors as to why they pulled out of their hotel, luxury housing, tennis and golf academy plans.

"significant increases in construction, material, energy and labour costs, a lengthy and uncertain planning process, and protracted discussions with governing bodies” were among the factors behind the decision.

---

So if I wanted to be greedy I could just set the price of my house at £1m and I would get it?
Planning very much stops houses getting built. The process of lodging a planning application is no longer viable on small developments. That’s why you never see small builders building one or two houses a year anymore. The planning system is only for the big volume builders who want green field sites. If I found a small patch of brownfield land in Edinburgh the planning process would prevent a single dwelling being built. The only way it’s worthwhile is if I’m building a multi unit development.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

So if I wanted to be greedy I could just set the price of my house at £1m and I would get it?
Planning very much stops houses getting built. The process of lodging a planning application is no longer viable on small developments. That’s why you never see small builders building one or two houses a year anymore. The planning system is only for the big volume builders who want green field sites. If I found a small patch of brownfield land in Edinburgh the planning process would prevent a single dwelling being built. The only way it’s worthwhile is if I’m building a multi unit development.

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That is so wrong. The planning system allows for single properties in the right places. I should know, I'm surrounded by them!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

That is so wrong. The planning system allows for single properties in the right places. I should know, I'm surrounded by them!!

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And yet we are still not building them. What do you think is the reason we are not building enough houses?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

So if I wanted to be greedy I could just set the price of my house at £1m and I would get it?
Planning very much stops houses getting built. The process of lodging a planning application is no longer viable on small developments. That’s why you never see small builders building one or two houses a year anymore. The planning system is only for the big volume builders who want green field sites. If I found a small patch of brownfield land in Edinburgh the planning process would prevent a single dwelling being built. The only way it’s worthwhile is if I’m building a multi unit development.

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Shifting the goalposts a bit now.

Can your admit your post on the Murray development was inaccurate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Shifting the goalposts a bit now.

Can your admit your post on the Murray development was inaccurate?

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It took 11 years to get conditional approval and you’re saying it’s a planning success? The conditions made it unviable and now it’s not happening. Another result for the nimbys.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And yet we are still not building them. What do you think is the reason we are not building enough houses?


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Depends who's not building. You've complained in the past about the numbers of new student flats, so they are getting built.

In the 1970s and 80s student flats were private landlords, now those flats are likely to be Airbnb.

Volume builders used to build speculatively nowadays they sell off plan, so they have a buyer before building.

Where I live the farmer sold individual plots at £100 -£150k in the 1990s, 15 individual houses built by different architects and builders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It took 11 years to get conditional approval and you’re saying it’s a planning success? The conditions made it unviable and now it’s not happening. Another result for the nimbys.


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Judy Murray won an eight-year planning battle to build the complex south of Dunblane at the end of 2021.

But the scheme continued to face opposition from local campaigners due to the site being located on green-belt land.

At the heart of this project was an exclusive luxury housing development that would have been damaging to the local landscape and would have eroded ancient woodlands and crucial greenbelt land.

"A statement from the charity said “significant increases in construction, material, energy and labour costs, a lengthy and uncertain planning process, and protracted discussions with governing bodies” were among the factors behind the decision.

Scottish Green MSP Mark Ruskell

“We all want to see a fitting tennis legacy for Andy Murray across Scotland, but building an inaccessible private sports centre, reliant on public funding, in a location that has very little local support was never going to end well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Depends who's not building. You've complained in the past about the numbers of new student flats, so they are getting built.

In the 1970s and 80s student flats were private landlords, now those flats are likely to be Airbnb.

Volume builders used to build speculatively nowadays they sell off plan, so they have a buyer before building.

Where I live the farmer sold individual plots at £100 -£150k in the 1990s, 15 individual houses built by different architects and builders.

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I’ve not complained about student flats? I’m in favour of them.[emoji2369]


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It’s almost like we enjoy being poor.


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Crabs in a bucket mentality.

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I live in a relatively new build home built on part of the local farmers land that he sold. Any time there’s a new planning application the people who live around here complain about the loss of green space.

These people never seem to acknowledge that their house is also sitting on what was another one of the same farmers fields not that long ago.

They always say things like we won’t have any green space left when in reality I walk 2 minutes from my house and can only see green space for as far as my eyes can see!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibee

I live in a relatively new build home built on part of the local farmers land that he sold. Any time there’s a new planning application the people who live around here complain about the loss of green space.

These people never seem to acknowledge that their house is also sitting on what was another one of the same farmers fields not that long ago.

They always say things like we won’t have any green space left when in reality I walk 2 minutes from my house and can only see green space for as far as my eyes can see!

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Give it another twenty years, I'm sure that can be remedied for you.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It took 11 years to get conditional approval and you’re saying it’s a planning success? The conditions made it unviable and now it’s not happening. Another result for the nimbys.


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It appears the story actually goes all the way back to 1988!

Oddly planning permission was actually granted at one point for an earlier version of the scheme:

https://www.urbanrealm.com/features/...and_Forth.html

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Give it another twenty years, I'm sure that can be remedied for you.

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If I’m still fit enough to go for walks in 20 years I’ll be delighted regardless of the view [emoji3]

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Originally Posted by hibee

I live in a relatively new build home built on part of the local farmers land that he sold. Any time there’s a new planning application the people who live around here complain about the loss of green space.

These people never seem to acknowledge that their house is also sitting on what was another one of the same farmers fields not that long ago.

They always say things like we won’t have any green space left when in reality I walk 2 minutes from my house and can only see green space for as far as my eyes can see!

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True, my estate (40 houses and flats) was built on a village on farmers fields back in 2008. I have the village life in a modern (insulated) house.

More houses were built over the A4 in the other village.

No issues with facilities. The village has a good primary, shop, pub, Indian / another pub and a massive country house / hotel / golf course.

J

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Give it another twenty years, I'm sure that can be remedied for you.

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Yip. If they apply for planning now that will just about do it.


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Might not be in the central belt, but plenty of development elsewhere.

https://www.perthwest.com/

https://www.thespringfieldgroup.co.u...tha-park-perth

That's 4000 new homes with all the associated infrastructure, schools, shops, surgery etc within an hour of Edinburgh.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’ve not complained about student flats? I’m in favour of them.[emoji2369]


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Apologies, someone else did. Anyways, the rest of my post stands.