Have others been given fixed penalties for not wearing masks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
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Have others been given fixed penalties for not wearing masks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
On London transport 1552 people were fined in December for not wearing a mask
https://inews.co.uk/news/face-masks-rules-london-public-transport-tfl-rules-fines-not-wearing-coverings-1386912
Someone asked Scotland Police but they said they didn't have the data. There surely were quite a few if Scotland has similar population to London
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION (SCOTLAND) ACT 2002
I refer to your recent request for information which has been handled in accordance with
the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.
For ease of reference, your request is replicated below together with the response.
How many fines for not wearing a face covering in a public space in Scotland (incl.
public transport) have been issued between:
1. 1
st Jan 2021 and 19th July 2021
2. 19th July and the most up to date figures available
3. Can you please clarify how many of these fines (in either section of dates) was
for a repeat offence, so was therefore more than £30.
In response to your questions, I regret to inform you that I am unable to provide you with the
information you have requested, as it would prove too costly to do so within the context of
the fee regulations.
As you may be aware the current cost threshold is £600 and I estimate that it would cost
well in excess of this amount to process your request.
As such, and in terms of Section 16(4) of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002
where Section 12(1) of the Act (Excessive Cost of Compliance) has been applied, this
represents a refusal notice for the information sought.
By way of explanation the most recent data provides that between 01 January 2021 and 17
June 2021, 14,442 Fixed Penalty Notices (FPN) were issued for Covid-19 related offences.
The Covid-19 related offences that may relate to mask wearing are recorded as:
ASB12 16(1) Failure to comply - Coronvirus Regulations
ASB13 16(2) Obstruct person - Coronvirus Regulations
ASB14 16(3) Contravene Direction - Coronavirus Regulations
There is no specific offence for non-mask wearing. Therefore, in order to determine the
information you require each penalty notice would need to be manually examined to
determine if the FPN was issued due to non-mask wearing or a repeat fine due to non-mask
wearing.
A conservative estimate would be that it would take approximately 3 minutes per record
and that this would equate to 722 hours of work.
Actually must be more lenient up here as the record says just 1
Nicola Sturgeon said this last summer
She said: “The regulations that will be published are likely to follow very closely the situation on public transport so in terms of enforcement that would involve for people not complying, potentially the imposition of a fixed penalty notice.
“It is not something I think is fair or reasonable to expect workers in shops to enforce so police would be able in certain circumstances to impose fixed penalty notices but the police will enforce these things very proportionately and sensitively.
I recognise very readily that this is not the easiest thing for the police to enforce either which is why all of us can help by doing this voluntarily even though it is going to be backed up by law.
So a stern wag of the finger should suffice then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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As the report you mention, those figures are specifically for Transport in London. I'm not saying it hasn't happened but personally, I haven't heard of one person being fined here for not wearing a mask otherwise, not even on transport systems. I have seen local reports of students arranging parties being fined £10,000 though. Perhaps putting Johnson's swingeing £50 fine into perspective some might say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
It's whether the leaders should have a higher standard. I'd bet no one got done for having a cake in their office, but I'm glad he got a fine. Abba parties ect are different if it's true he was at them, as that is taking the p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If its just the cake fine, that and Sturgeons mask will all blow over in a few weeks
This report seems to suggest a lot more than 1 https://www.law.ed.ac.uk/sites/defau...Report%203.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Has Douglas Ross demanded her resignation yet?
So even if there was a police presence the likely scenario would be ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Ms Sturgeon you are not wearing your mask.
Oops sorry, NS puts on mask.
No further action necessary.
The twittersphere is awash with politicians without masks on indoors. Some in classrooms. Leave this up to the police to decide, just like the others. If she's fined then so be it.
And there we have it. The police have spoken to her and no further action to be taken.
It seems someone has reported Douglas Ross and Anas Sarwar for similar breaches in the last few days.
Welcome to the hornets nest.
If they were not wearing masks….issue them with a fixed penalty noticeQuote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
My particular favourite was when he was 'asked three times' to wear a mask in a hospital.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...times-22173717
Close runner-up is him going maskless when sitting with the 95 year-old David Attenborough at Cop2.
https://news.sky.com/story/cop26-bor...rough-12458494
Then there's the train.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1962180.html
We mustn't forget the theatre.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ask-at-theatre
Or meeting one of his troops. Had to self-isolate after this one.
https://www.chad.co.uk/health/corona...t-mask-3036951
Attachment 25798
But it's utter ****ing nonsense and a waste of polis time. For persistent offenders or those who cause a scene when asked to put a mask on then fair enough. But this was 100% mischief making and so is the reports of Sarwar and Ross.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Absolutely ****ing pathetic.
If people can’t see the difference between what on the face of things would be forgetting to put a face mask on whilst campaigning and having several office parties in the height of lockdown, lying to parliament about it and still trying to come up with **** excuses then there’s no hope for them.
I say that as someone who’s not a big fan of the SNP.
Thank goodness you're no longer on the beat. Whatever happened to a word in the ear. 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
It’s great for the SNP that their opponents are making themselves look like petty idiots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
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Power of discretion removed years ago ….Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
Ah, policing by questionnaire, at least in England anyway. 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
There is discretion though, I’ve been caught speeding, and was very humble and I got a telling off to slow down and was on my way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Similarly I’ve been caught by a GATSO, no discretion, 3 points and £60 fine.
In this instance discretion is correct, Alexander Johnson’s multiple parties, there’s a theme, he has to be fined. And multiple times.
J
:faf::faf::faf::faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr/st...oO5os7DHw&s=19
How can paper work for something so fundamental be missing? £240M contract and no emails, no minutes etc. nothing at all. It can't "be located" so it must have existed but seems to have disappeared. All very odd that any kind of documents cannot be found.
https://www.law.ed.ac.uk/sites/defau...Report%203.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
One of a number of reports around the enforcement in Scotland and the Police use of the 4Es. Not strictly relevant to the thread but good context.
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Bit of a read, however my point was, in England and Wales, around 2005/6 after many complaints about favouritism the power of discretion was removed by senior officers, this all tied in with complaints about masons etc not being prosecuted and people of colour were, for similar offences. Police stopped deciding on who got charged it was passed to the CPS for them to make decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
It is concerning/important and not the first time either that records and minutes have not been traceable. Derek McKay looks likely to be questioned over what happened. He's already suggested Keith Brown, Swinney and Sturgeon were all ahead of him in approving this contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Sounds as if there may simply have been no paperwork in the first place. Maybe easier to claim it's 'gone missing' than admit no records exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
McConnell is calling for the police to get involved:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/call-in-the-police-says-lord-mcconnell-as-row-over-scottish-ferry-contract-worsens-fvt0w0bqp
https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/s...ztBVSgf2w&s=19
Legal advice on IndyRef2 to be published in June after a 13 month battle to release it under FOI laws. Scottish Government ministers found to have breached the FOI legislation.
Hope it doesn’t get lost or misplaced like the ferry contract documents.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
why does it have to wait until June?
They have been given until June as a deadline.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
I would imagine the legal advice will say ‘it depends’. That’s how they make their money.
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It's legal advice from the Lord Advocate I suspect, rather than a commerical legal firm. It will be related to does Holyrood have the legal competency to hold a legally binding referendum without a S30 order. I suspect the answer is no, hence the desire to not publish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I'm glad this is coming out.
It might say "crack on" or "not allowed". Latter isn't end of the world. Scottish government having a mandate to pursue it, but getting told "no" by the UK government is a potential vote winner.
If it's somewhere on the fence that would be annoying but it wouldn't mean that Scottish Government was reckless should it go ahead.
It wouldn't be legally binding. If the SG can hold a ref it'll be advisory like brexit and they'll assume that the UKG can't ignore "the will of the people". Unionists can counter that by boycotting and then as long as the turnout is below 50%, which you'd expect, they will think they're golden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
Whatever happens next, this has a long way to run I suspect. Constitutional paralysis, gotta love it. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
thank you :aok:
Let's not discount it being within competence quite yet, but a "not allowed" would be my second preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The Scotland Act is fairly clear, matters of the constitution are reserved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
An advisory referendum would be a mistake in my humble opinion (if you are on the Yes side) as it would likely be boycotted by potentially half the country and Yes wins with 99% of the vote on a turnout of say 40%. Can't say with a serious face that's the will of the Scottish people. Also would all the councils take part, would the electoral commission endorse it etc. Minefield.
Since when does not turning up to vote carry the same weight as voting? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
It's unfair, but it's a tactic that works the world over. People always ignore a vote that a large % have disputed and abstainedQuote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
I just don't see how on a turnout of half or less than the last referendum any result can be taken as a serious indication of the will of the people of Scotland, even more so if Yes wins with 90%+ of the vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
But if that's the road the SNP want to go down then so be it. Just don't see it happening as Nicola Sturgeon has said in the past she wants a repeat of the process of the 2014 referendum.
I read that there is some academic debate about whether the Scotland Act is the be all and end all on the point, but let's assume the advice is a clear "incompetent". The Scottish Government has a mandate to pursue a referendum but the UK Government wants to discount it. That'll just help build pro-referendum/ independence support.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
The last Council elections in Scotland had a turnout of 32%. Is that a serious indication of the will of the people?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
A bit different to the question should Scotland break away from UK though, as I say if that's the road the SNP want to go down and see what happens then they should crack on.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Hardly comparable to the independence of your nation, particularly after high turn out in last referendum. Just shows most aren't arsed about council electionsQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Not sure it will, hasn't that been the case the last 5 years or so? Remember Sturgeon telling us she has a mandate after various other elections and we would have a referendum in 2018 or 2019 and so on. Nothing happened and support has pretty much fallen back to mid 40s again. Who knows though, maybe that's the SNP game plan, I would suggest its not a great plan to rely on though, but who knows what their strategy is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
There is no doubt the SG can't enact a binding referendum without another section 30 order. There is some doubt about whether an advisory ref would be ok (as in not struck down by the Supreme Court under the current law). Enacting change to the constitution is reserved, testing the opinion of the population about constitutional matters might not be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
A non-agreed ref wouldn't bring indy on its own anway, imo, because it wouldn't be recognised by the EU as a legit process. Could be another useful stepping stone along the way though.
68% of people think that local councils shouldn't exist and decisions should be made in Westminster :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
So yes? 😄Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
From now on, I'm complaining to Michael Green about potholes in Leith.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Comparing turn out of a council election to a referendum on your nations independence is ridiculous, what was the turn out of the hibs club election
I wasn't comparing. I asked what I thought was a reasonable question. The point, of course, was to try and establish what would be a sufficient turnout that would reflect "the will.of the people ".Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The fact council election have people of all parties vote on it makes it irrelevant to this. The low turn out is due to people having little interest. The 32% is mixed, not just one side not votingQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
People obviously have huge interest in independence referendum. If one side doesn't vote and there is a decent amount under 50% turn out, no one will take it seriously
So "more than 50%"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The last one was won with a little under 47% of the elecorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I can understand why people are against independence but I can't understand why people are against a democratic vote.
I wouldn't say that was a decent amount under 50. But far more importantly both sides voted. All over the world no one takes a referendum seriously if its only one side voting.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Although I'm unsure if the snp want a vote right now when most polls are consistently No
The polls have been ***** hot at predcting all sorts of votes over the last decade or so. Or have they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
You're not daft Jack, you know exactly why we're being denied a referendum. First line of defence, don't let those Jocks ask the question. Democracy doesn't come into it.
We've just started a swear jar in the Bee household, after Debate Night on BBC I'm now £83 lighter, Rachael Hamilton should be banned from all future episodes
Who she?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
They aren't completely accurate but if they are consistently saying this year that no is ahead, you unfortunately would be daft to say its anything but too close to call. We'd want to have a good lead and a bit of confidence going in. Because if this is another no, then I can't see another referendum for decadesQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Used to be the Tory shadow tourism minister, who was fined over £50,000 for breaking the law on workplace pensions at the upmarket hotel she owned. The fine had increased as she refused to pay the initial one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Typical tory...one rule for the Plebs, another for them.
She also claimed last night that the unemployment rate was higher in Scotland than the UK...another lie.
Type 'why were the polls so wrong' into Google. Add in the UK if you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Sorry bad typo meant aren't accurate, but it makes it beyond doubt that it's close. You must be glass half full kind of guy if you think it isn't closeQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
SNP Scotland is fast becoming a grim place to live under this Scottish Government.
It's grim up north was a saying long before the SNP were about!Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Hibs
This, 100%. What are they afraid of? 🤔Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
We just had a once in a generation democratic vote on independence 8 years ago and the people vote NO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
If you have in your manifesto that you will make it law that everyone has to eat cheese on a Tuesday and you win the election then it's your right to do so, doesn't matter what's been said previously or how much other people moan about it, it's democracy but some people seem to want to pick and choose what parts of that they actually wantQuote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Not like it's just one election either, it's every single one since 2014
A political generation is 7 years. We know that because that is stated in the Belfast agreement, an agreement the British government are signatories to.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
A generation can't surely be different in Northern Ireland to Scotland, no?
The definition of a word is whatever the current Conservative government says it is, that's what strong leadership's all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
I should really know that. Consistency and facts are alien to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Maybe go somewhere else then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Hibs
Long past time for another vote then. Perhaps this time people will vote more sensibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Any news on Michael Goves illegal polling on Scottish independence which was supposed to be released within 4 weeks of July 15th 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
That dates not a typo. 😆
If it's in capitals, shouldn't it be NEVER! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
https://alphahistory.com/northernire...ianpaisley.jpg
I agree. As I said, we won't get indy with EU approval by holding an advisory ref where the UKG isn't on board and the Unionist side boycotts. It's definitely worth playing the long game to keep EU sympathies on our side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
What if a non-advisory referendum is held and the NO side boycotts? Shirley that result then doesn't represent the will of the people etc etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Democracy isn’t static. We could have a vote every week if the government in Edinburgh declares it in their manifesto and they gain a majority at Holyrood of like minded MSPs.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It’s utter Bollox that we have to get blessed by Westminster to “allow” such a vote endorsed by the electorate of Scotland.
J
There are other laws governing this. You cant have a stable constitutional settlement if its constantly under review and there is no respect for the rule of law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
If the boot was on the other foot, for example, how would you feel if Scotland voted for independence and Edinburgh and Lothian Councils then had a separate vote that they didnt want to be part of an independent Scotland and wanted to join up with the remainder of the UK? How would you feel if they kept running that until they got the result they wanted? How could any government make any plans.
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If they are elected on that basis then that's it, would be up to the opposition to garner enough support by explaining why it's such a bad idea and why we shouldn't vote for itQuote:
Originally Posted by LeithMike
It's really straightforward and don't know why people act like there is something underhand going on, the SNP and Greens had it in their manifesto, it's not like they have thrown in a last minute curve ball by stealth
There really aren't. Which is one of the reasons why we *don't* have a stable constitutional settlement.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeithMike
The main reason though is that it's just too evenly divided. It's difficult to maintain Scotland as a UK region when almost or just over half the population don't want to be part of that state. Likewise, it's difficult to see how you can build a new state when almost or just over half the population don't want to be part of that.
There is a growing movement in England for English independence. A fantastic idea by the way!! I saw a poll recently that of those asked 50% were in favour. This raises two points for me. 1. Who will they ask if they want to leave the union? 2. How will they get round the conundrum that is on one hand saying Scotland is a drain on their resources and on the other explaining that actually without Scotland they would lose billions in finance and what actually keeps their lights on is coming from Scotland so maybe not a great idea.
England would definitely gain in short term fiscal terms from ditching Scotland. You might not believe the minutiae of GERS but it's in the right ballpark.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
There are, however, very good reasons for their political class to be against it - a home for nuclear subs and security of energy supply being the main 2. Ultimately, it comes down to international willy waving. The loss of face that comes with a loss of territory is too much for them to stomach. Same thing that motivates Putin, tbh. You would hope they won't use that motivation in quite such a mad ******* way though!
Andrew Marr talking rubbish in the New StatesmanQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/04/putins-war-could-be-the-undoing-of-nicola-sturgeon
Quote:
The Ministry of Defence has considered, and rejected, sites in south Wales – too near oil and gas installations – and on the southern English coast – too close to busy sea lanes and heavily populated areas.
Aye, especially if you're a low income family with a couple of kids. £20 a week for each kid 6 years old and under changing to 16 years old and rising to £25. When those kids choose to go to Uni that'll be free along with free bus travel, they choose to become nurses so a bursary is incoming with a final salary higher than the rest of the UK, free prescriptions when needed but OMG those ****** ferries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Hibs
All of the above are not available south of the border so no child payment, £9k a year plus IIRC 12% interest for uni, no free bus travel, no free prescriptions, no bursary for trainee nurses and a lower salary when qualified. If it's bad up here it's worse down there.
So, the SNP are going to lose a referendum on Scottish independence because England doesn't want to give up its nukes? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Weird logic in that article, mostly shot through with Marr's wishful thinking. I guess if Britain had done as good a job of Brit-ifying the Scottish population as a whole as it has done with the landed and political elites, there would be no indy movement and we'd all be quiescent North Brits.
I agree. I believe Scotland will be financially worse initially. But that isn't the reason not to independent. Can shake of this vile tory government. Yes there will be Scottish Conservatives, but I think they will have to be more central and will get beat generally.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
We'll also have a fairer society. We'll obviously also have massive potential, hopefully inside Europe
I'd think devo max if was actually a thing and not pish spouted by brown, would definitely pass a referendum
Under 16's have had free bus and tram travel in London since 2005. Can't be bothered wae the back and forth, so am just browsing, just pointing this fact out in case you weren't aware. It was brought in to ease congestion on the tubes during rush hour if I recall correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
So do I but there is zero way for it to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Great policy when it arrived, but they've having difficulty keeping it. TFL getting bailed out by central government, and with Grant Shapps trying to get TFL to remove some of the free journeys for some older kids, it might come under pressure when the Tories come back, and they will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
It's a great policy wherever it's implemented, and I'm delighted the Scottish Government have increased it to Under 22's for the whole Nation.
https://www.cityam.com/tfl-agrees-1-...ort%20operator.
My fear is if this is a no vote again, we won't get another referendum ever again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Hope there is a parking charge
George Allison
@geoallison
·
NATO Nuclear submarines from three countries have converged at a naval base near Glasgow in Scotland, near the North Atlantic. There's an American 🇺🇸 Virginia class submarine and a French 🇫🇷 Rubis class submarine in addition to the British 🇬🇧 submarines based there
I think you'll find that's docking fees 😆Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
BBC: Sturgeon accused of 'lie' over ferry contract
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-61306935
Is that the same Jim McColl that was caught out lying about said contract after he claimed not to have signed it?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!