Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Feel the love!A poem published by Boris Johnson when he was editor of Spectator magazine.

The Scotch - what a verminous race!

Canny, pushy, chippy, they're all over the place.

Battening off us with false bonhomie;

Polluting our stock, undermining our economy.

Down with sandy hair and knobbly knees!

Suppress the tartan dwarves and the Wee Frees!

Ban the kilt, the skean-dhu and the sporran

As provocatively, offensively foreign!

It's time Hadrian's Wall was refortified

To pen them in a ghetto on the other side.

I would go further. The nation

Deserves not merely isolation

But comprehensive extermination.

We must not flinch from a solution.

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Extermination. Solution. Where have we heard that kind of talk before? That is an absolute disgrace that he had anything to do with that, writer or not. I suppose it's good to know what the probable leader of the UK government really thinks of us.

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Originally Posted by James310

He was not the author but he did publish it, which is a horrendous thing to do. Not as bad a writing it, but comes close.

Boris is a gift for the SNP, I wonder if they can take advantage.

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I agree re Boris, but there are many Tories who are similar (see the leadership candidates queuing up to talk tough on Scotland).

The SNP and Scottish independence full stop has a much stronger case when the more extreme Tory tendencies come to the fore. Thatcher, Boris, Rees-Mogg - everything these people stand for is alien to a huge proportion of the Scottish people (it is open to debate how much more they relate to the English population.) We've had a pretty strong influence from them for much of my lifetime, and it looks like that is only going to increase in future which spells very bad news for Scotland.

Scotland has been badly let down by the Labour Party and it hasn't ever been more let down than it is right now. A semi-competent Labour Party would be wiping the floor with this shambles, and with a half-decent Labour Party in government, it would be far harder to argue the case for independence.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

https://youtu.be/UN3e-aYUusc

I saw this earlier.

It beggars belief that people see this guy and think he's Prime Minister material.

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Matthew Parris was on the radiobox the other night suggesting that a most illuminating question to put to Bojoke on Tuesday, if he turns up, would be How many children do you have?

Wikipedia says 4. Parris suggests somewhere between 5 and 7.

Goes to character, m'lud.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Feel the love!A poem published by Boris Johnson when he was editor of Spectator magazine.

The Scotch - what a verminous race!

Canny, pushy, chippy, they're all over the place.

Battening off us with false bonhomie;

Polluting our stock, undermining our economy.

Down with sandy hair and knobbly knees!

Suppress the tartan dwarves and the Wee Frees!

Ban the kilt, the skean-dhu and the sporran

As provocatively, offensively foreign!

It's time Hadrian's Wall was refortified

To pen them in a ghetto on the other side.

I would go further. The nation

Deserves not merely isolation

But comprehensive extermination.

We must not flinch from a solution.

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Should be on billboard's

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Originally Posted by James310

Boris is a gift for the SNP, I wonder if they can take advantage.

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Not really. The vast majority of the anti-independence brigade get their jollies from good ole Scottish racism. They'll be cheering his every breath as Prime Minister.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Not really. The vast majority of the anti-independence brigade get their jollies from good ole Scottish racism. They'll be cheering his every breath as Prime Minister.

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So the vast majority of the 55% that voted no get 'jollies' from racism? Ok then.

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Originally Posted by James310

So the vast majority of the 55% that voted no get 'jollies' from racism? Ok then.

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They view it as some kind of victory when some tory eton boy points the finger at jockland to talk us down.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

They view it as some kind of victory when some tory eton boy points the finger at jockland to talk us down.

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So to be clear the vast majority of Scots who voted No get their jollies from racism and like it when Tory Eton boys talk down jockland?

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

Boris Johnson as prime minister would be proof positive that accident of birth is still incredibly significant in Britain. Here is someone who believed from childhood that he would be prime minister; that he was born to it and it's his right. Imagine growing up being so secure of your place in the world, confident that, like so many Old Etonians, you are born to rule. What an embarrassment to this country, which totally undermines the lip service politicians pay to a supposed meritocracy and equality of opportunity. Our society remains medieval in so many ways, as the luck of draw continues to determine one's destiny. As a Conservative Johnson wishes to conserve this state of affairs. I despise him and the values he represents.

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I can’t believe this post hasn’t had more recognition.
Well said sir:top marks

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Originally Posted by James310

So to be clear the vast majority of Scots who voted No get their jollies from racism and like it when Tory Eton boys talk down jockland?

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So to be clear, he never said or alluded to that.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

So to be clear, he never said or alluded to that.

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So what does the vast majority mean? That's his words not mine.

Almost all, I wouldn't make much money if I had a wager that you are ripping the heid of it regarding Boris as the next PM.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

Almost all, I wouldn't make much money if I had a wager that you are ripping the heid of it regarding Boris as the next PM.

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So he said the vast majority which you admit is almost all, but then defend him saying that's not what he said. Your confused.

Have a rest and maybe you can get back to 'ripping the heid of it'

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Originally Posted by James310

So he said the vast majority which you admit is almost all, but then defend him saying that's not what he said. Your confused.

Have a rest and maybe you can get back to ripping the heid of it.

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I'm rested, credit to you for not denying what you get off on.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

I'm rested, credit to you for not denying what you get off on.

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Yes they do say after a good **** you get rested. Well done, but spare us the details.

Now can we stick to adult debate, not revert to juvenile connotations.

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Originally Posted by James310

So he said the vast majority which you admit is almost all, but then defend him saying that's not what he said. Your confused.

Have a rest and maybe you can get back to 'ripping the heid of it'

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I said most of all and i'll stand by it. It's abundantly clear that the majority of "scots" would prefer to have Boris Johnson holding the whip over them, than have to deal with the sheer nightmare of their own countries sovereignty.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I said most of all and i'll stand by it. It's abundantly clear that the majority of "scots" would prefer to have Boris Johnson holding the whip over them, than have to deal with the sheer nightmare of their own countries sovereignty.

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But your friend said you never said this? Now I am confused.

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Originally Posted by James310

But your friend said you never said this? Now I am confused.

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You slid the word "racism" in there which isn't what I said.

It is however exactly what I meant.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

Should be on billboard's

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Should be on every Scottish news channel and trending all over the internet.

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Originally Posted by 1875godsgift

Should be on every Scottish news channel and trending all over the internet.

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Just one problem. We have no Scottish news channels. We have London channels dressed in kilts.

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Originally Posted by James310

But your friend said you never said this? Now I am confused.

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I'll hold my hands up to that, got it wrong.

Your posting style noises me up if I'm honest, I jumped in and got it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Not really. The vast majority of the anti-independence brigade get their jollies from good ole Scottish racism. They'll be cheering his every breath as Prime Minister.

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You don’t do yourself, or the independence argument, any favours when you pigeonhole everyone who voted no as anti Scottish.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

You don’t do yourself, or the independence argument, any favours when you pigeonhole everyone who voted no as anti Scottish.

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I never said everyone, I said most. I'm prepared to be proven wrong though. The polls would suggest not though.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

I'll hold my hands up to that, got it wrong.

Your posting style noises me up if I'm honest, I jumped in and got it wrong.

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I don't care much for your posting style, but I don't feel the need to make references to you getting off on Nicola Sturgeon doing whatever it is she does.

Do you agree with Fife Hibee though? You were quick to defend him.

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Originally Posted by James310

I don't care much for your posting style, but I don't feel the need to make references to you getting off on Nicola Sturgeon doing whatever it is she does.

Do you agree with Fife Hibee though? You were quick to defend him.

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Which would you prefer. An independent Scotland? Or Scotland remaining in the UK under a PM who has made previous derogatory comments against Scotland?

I won't accept a whataboutery answer. It's either one or the other.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Which would you prefer. An independent Scotland? Or Scotland remaining in the UK under a PM who has made previous derogatory comments against Scotland?

I won't accept a whataboutery answer. It's either one or the other.

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The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

That clear enough for you?

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

Should be on billboard's

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by James310

I don't care much for your posting style, but I don't feel the need to make references to you getting off on Nicola Sturgeon doing whatever it is she does.

Do you agree with Fife Hibee though? You were quick to defend him.

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I broadly agree with what he said, and I broadly agree with what he says in general.

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Originally Posted by James310

The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

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All you had to say was "i'd rather Scotland was dictated to by an anti-Scottish racist than have control over it's own affairs."

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Originally Posted by James310

That clear enough for you?

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Loud and clear.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

All you had to say was "i'd rather Scotland was dictated to by an anti-Scottish racist than have control over it's own affairs."

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Why would I say that when that's not what I mean or implied. You do like making stuff up don't you.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

I broadly agree with what he said, and I broadly agree with what he says in general.

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So you agreed with what he said, even although you completely misinterpreted what he said. That makes perfect sense.

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Originally Posted by James310

The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

That clear enough for you?

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What about the damage Cameron and May have caused with Brexit that will effect generations to come? Independence might or night not be the answer but a post Brexit (particularly in the event of a no deal) UK is just as big a risk as an independent Scotland IMO.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

What about the damage Cameron and May have caused with Brexit that will effect generations to come? Independence might or night not be the answer but a post Brexit (particularly in the event of a no deal) UK is just as big a risk as an independent Scotland IMO.

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Brexit was a bad idea, why make it worse?

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Originally Posted by James310

Why would I say that when that's not what I mean or implied. You do like making stuff up don't you.

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It is what you meant though. Because the political stance you're taking supports just that.

You say that the damage from Boris will be limited and will only last a few years. But seem to have the idea that an independent Scotland will be forever ruled under the thumb of Nicola Sturgeon with no safe guards in place to circumvent her level of authority.

You're making the conscious decision to back an anti-scottish racist (rejected by Scotland) having authority over Scotland as opposed to a soverign Scotland where votes actually matter.

Why do you hate Scotland so much?

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Originally Posted by James310

The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

That clear enough for you?

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Boris is bad news? Understatement of the year. If Nicola Sturgeon posted a ditty about ethnically cleansing Scotland of the English on her Twitter feed then I might get where you're coming from. The fact that you'd prefer someone who is a self confessed Scotland hater ahead of someone who clearly has Scotland's interests at heart to govern Scotland sums you up quite nicely. Nothing you say now could convince me that you care a toss about the people in Scotland, instead your precious union would seem to be all you care about.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

It is what you meant though. Because the political stance you're taking supports just that.

You say that the damage from Boris will be limited and will only last a few years. But seem to have the idea that an independent Scotland will be forever ruled under the thumb of Nicola Sturgeon with no safe guards in place to circumvent her level of authority.

You're making the conscious decision to back an anti-scottish racist (rejected by Scotland) having authority over Scotland as opposed to a soverign Scotland where votes actually matter.

Why do you hate Scotland so much?

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Thanks for telling me what I really mean, that's really helpful.

I don't hate Scotland, could say the same to you as why do you want to subject the nation to an economic nightmare. I am trying to save Scotland.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Boris is bad news? Understatement of the year. If Nicola Sturgeon posted a ditty about ethnically cleansing Scotland of the English on her Twitter feed then I might get where you're coming from. The fact that you'd prefer someone who is a self confessed Scotland hater ahead of someone who clearly has Scotland's interests at heart to govern Scotland sums you up quite nicely. Nothing you say now could convince me that you care a toss about the people in Scotland, instead your precious union would seem to be all you care about.

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But your wrong in my opinion, Scotland as a nation would likely be bankrupt if we followed Sturgeon. Only a £30BN budget gap from the White Paper and our first Prime Minister potentially facing jail time for serious sexual offences.

How would that gap have been funded?

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Originally Posted by James310

Thanks for telling me what I really mean, that's really helpful.

I don't hate Scotland, could say the same to you as why do you want to subject the nation to an economic nightmare. I am trying to save Scotland.

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You are subjecting Scotland to an economic nightmare. Not only are you subjecting Scotland to an economic nightmare, you're subjecting us to a race war under a modern day fascist.

The way you word your point of view is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that you view Boris Johnson as a better option over Scottish sovereignty. You are holding a racist in higher regard than Scotlands ability to govern itself.

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Originally Posted by James310

But your wrong in my opinion, Scotland as a nation would likely be bankrupt if we followed Sturgeon. Only a £30BN budget gap from the White Paper and our first Prime Minister potentially facing jail time for serious sexual offences.

How would that gap have been funded?

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Well it's a good thing the UK doesn't have a major funding gap that's about to grow ever wider. How lucky we are to be in a union that imposes a funding gap on us, rather than us having control over it ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Well it's a good thing the UK doesn't have a major funding gap that's about to grow ever wider. How lucky we are to be in a union that imposes a funding gap on us, rather than us having control over it ourselves.

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So how would that £30BN gap have been funded? Tax increase, public spending cuts?

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Originally Posted by James310

So how would that £30BN gap have been funded? Tax increase, public spending cuts?

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How is the UK gap being funded? It isn't. Instead, we have a tory government that is cutting taxes, public services and ultimately shrinking down the state as much as possible.

If it's not an immediate urgency of the UK Government to close the UK wide funding gap, then why would it be any different for an independent Scotland?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

How is the UK gap being funded? It isn't. Instead, we have a tory government that is cutting taxes, public services and ultimately shrinking down the state as much as possible.

If it's not an immediate urgency of the UK Government to close the UK wide funding gap, then why would it be any different for an independent Scotland?

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Stop turning my questions into your questions. I answered your question directly, can you do the same? If you don't want to answer just say so.

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Originally Posted by James310

Brexit was a bad idea, why make it worse?

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Ultimately it comes down to an independent Scotland finding its feet, but still in the EU (I’ve seen enough to make me confident we would welcomed in and quickly) v staying in the UK but one that’s not in the EU.

Both are a risk so it’s just down to what leap of faith each of us choose.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Not really. The vast majority of the anti-independence brigade get their jollies from good ole Scottish racism. They'll be cheering his every breath as Prime Minister.

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That’s really poor stuff from you again. 55% of our fellow Scots took a different view on Independence from me and you. Suggesting the vast majority of them are racist is just plain wrong.
I might be wrong though so please back that up with some facts. Are there polls showing this?

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Originally Posted by James310

Stop turning my questions into your questions. I answered your question directly, can you do the same? If you don't want to answer just say so.

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There is nothing wrong with my answer. You're the one showing incredible levels of whataboutery here. Quit acting like the deficit only exists for an independent Scotland. It already exists within the UK. The only difference is, Scotland doesn't have the means to deal with the deficit in it's own way. So it continues to grow as long as we remain part of the UK.

We can either remain in a UK, ran by a government that is rejected by Scotland. Cutting taxes on the wealthiest and shifting as much of the deficit burden on the poor as they can. OR we can leave the UK and piece together our own government who will use more progressive measures for getting our deficit down.

Either way, there's a deficit. It's just a question of who is better placed to deal with it and based on what i've witnessed in my life time, it's not Westminster and their different shades of tory.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

Ultimately it comes down to an independent Scotland finding its feet, but still in the EU (I’ve seen enough to make me confident we would welcomed in and quickly) v staying in the UK but one that’s not in the EU.

Both are a risk so it’s just down to what leap of faith each of us choose.

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How quickly is 'quickly'? We would need our own currency and that could take years. The 6 tests that have been set out for us to adopt our own currency could take 20 years or longer to meet.

Just a general thought on independence, not even necessarily Scottish. But has there ever been a nation that gained independence, say for example from Great Britain, that has wanted to reverse that decision? Maybe, Australia? What about New Zealand? India, yes of course they must have wanted to be ruled by England, you know the Jewell in the crown of the empire? Maybe some of the smaller countries? Some in the Caribbean maybe? What about some of the African countries? I know what about a country right on our doorstep, Ireland? Really, none of them? But surely they are bankrupt and need to be bailed out by the greats of Westminster? How can they manage without being told what to do, when to do it and how much money they can have to do it? Maybe I'm just a wee bit confused and unable to work any of that out for myself. I'm sure there will be someone along soon to put me right and explain how lucky I am

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

There is nothing wrong with my answer. You're the one showing incredible levels of whataboutery here. Quit acting like the deficit only exists for an independent Scotland. It already exists within the UK. The only difference is, Scotland doesn't have the means to deal with the deficit in it's own way. So it continues to grow as long as we remain part of the UK.

We can either remain in a UK, ran by a government that is rejected by Scotland. Cutting taxes on the wealthiest and shifting as much of the deficit burden on the poor as they can. OR we can leave the UK and piece together our own government who will use more progressive measures for getting our deficit down.

Either way, there's a deficit. It's just a question of who is better placed to deal with it and based on what i've witnessed in my life time, it's not Westminster and their different shades of tory.

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So that's you saying no, you won't answer it. See it's annoying when someone tells you what you really mean.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

That’s really poor stuff from you again. 55% of our fellow Scots took a different view on Independence from me and you. Suggesting the vast majority of them are racist is just plain wrong.
I might be wrong though so please back that up with some facts. Are there polls showing this?

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I don't care if it's "really poor stuff" in your view. If you want a poll that proves that the Scottish residents prefer an anti-scottish racist dictating over them as opposed to their own countries soverignty. Then just look at the vast majority of polls that still show that Scottish Independence is out of favour.

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Originally Posted by James310

So that's you saying no, you won't answer it. See it's annoying when someone tells you what you really mean.

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I have answered your question. An independent Scotland would have the ability to vote in a government that uses more progressive measures for dealing with the deficit than what we're currently being exposed to by the mafia in London.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I have answered your question. An independent Scotland would have the ability to vote in a government that uses more progressive measures for dealing with the deficit than what we're currently being exposed to by the mafia in London.

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More progressive measures like what? Ones that raise £30BN?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I don't care if it's "really poor stuff" in your view. If you want a poll that proves that the Scottish residents prefer an anti-scottish racist dictating over them as opposed to their own countries soverignty. Then just look at the vast majority of polls that still show that Scottish Independence is out of favour.

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That is a long way from what you say though. There is no evidence that the majority of the 55 are racist. They just would rather, foolishly in my opinion, rather stay in the union. Having Johnson as PM is just a sad function of that. Hopefully a good few if the 55 will see that as unacceptable and change their views

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Originally Posted by James310

So how would that £30BN gap have been funded? Tax increase, public spending cuts?

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Legalise weed, would put a billion or so into the coffers

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I don't care if it's "really poor stuff" in your view. If you want a poll that proves that the Scottish residents prefer an anti-scottish racist dictating over them as opposed to their own countries soverignty. Then just look at the vast majority of polls that still show that Scottish Independence is out of favour.

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As I though, nothing to back your comments up. Accusing most of your fellow Scots who disagree with you of being racist really is rather sad.
I really expected nothing more from a good old fashioned blood and soil Nationalist like yourself. Thankfully most of us who support Independence come at it from an alternative and rather more positive viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

That is a long way from what you say though. There is no evidence that the majority of the 55 are racist. They just would rather, foolishly in my opinion, rather stay in the union. Having Johnson as PM is just a sad function of that. Hopefully a good few if the 55 will see that as unacceptable and change their views

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

As I though, nothing to back your comments up. Accusing most of your fellow Scots who disagree with you of being racist really is rather sad.
I really expected nothing more from a good old fashioned blood and soil Nationalist like yourself. Thankfully most of us who support Independence come at it from an alternative and rather more positive viewpoint.

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Are you asking me to seek out the results of polls over the past several months? Because I believe you and anybody else who reads through these posts knows what the results of them are.

You call me a "good old fansioned blood and soil Nationalist". That's exactly what Boris Johnson is and exactly the kind of people who would rather have him dictate over us over the self sovereign alternative.

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Originally Posted by James310

More progressive measures like what? Ones that raise £30BN?

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Better measures that the ones being enforced on us in order to raise the "£30BN".

You seem to have this blinkered idea that the deficit doesn't exist as long as we remain in the UK. It's quite an incredible delusion really.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Better measures that the ones being enforced on us in order to raise the "£30BN".

You seem to have this blinkered idea that the deficit doesn't exist as long as we remain in the UK. It's quite an incredible delusion really.

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Better measures like what?

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Originally Posted by James310

Better measures like what?

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Like not cutting taxes on the wealthest and shifting the vast bulk of the burdren on those with little to no money.

and before you say to me "but how will that close the £30BN gap". That's a problem that already exists without independence. So independence doesn't make the issue any more problematic than it already is.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Are you asking me to seek out the results of polls over the past several months? Because I believe you and anybody else who reads through these posts knows what the results of them are.

You call me a "good old fansioned blood and soil Nationalist". That's exactly what Boris Johnson is and exactly the kind of people who would rather have him dictate over us over the self sovereign alternative.

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You said that the vast majority of people who voted against Independence get their jollies from racism. You really need to back up a slur like that.
I do agree with you that you share a bed with Boris when it comes to objectionable nationalistic views though. See, we can agree.

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Originally Posted by James310

But your wrong in my opinion, Scotland as a nation would likely be bankrupt if we followed Sturgeon. Only a £30BN budget gap from the White Paper and our first Prime Minister potentially facing jail time for serious sexual offences.

How would that gap have been funded?

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Robert Walpole is facing jail time for serious sexual offences??? Wow, just wow!!!!

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Originally Posted by marinello59

You said that the vast majority of people who voted against Independence get their jollies from racism. You really need to back up a slur like that.
I do agree with you that you share a bed with Boris when it comes to objectionable nationalistic views though. See, we can agree.

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You want me to take back what you refer to as a "slur", despite there being no evidence to suggest that i'm even wrong. Don't see why the burden of proof should be on me anymore than on yourself.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

You want me to take back what you refer to as a "slur", despite there being no evidence to suggest that i'm even wrong. Don't see why the burden of proof should be on me anymore than on yourself.

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I know a few no voters, none of which are racists. All the evidence I need. I think they were wrong in the way they voted but none, not a single one of them is a racist

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Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

I know a few no voters, none of which are racists. All the evidence I need. I think they were wrong in the way they voted but none, not a single one of them is a racist

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I know a few who aren't racists either. I never said they all were.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

You want me to take back what you refer to as a "slur", despite there being no evidence to suggest that i'm even wrong. Don't see why the burden of proof should be on me anymore than on yourself.

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Ypu made the statement so the burden of proof is on you.
Happy to be proved wrong if you have something to back up your comments. Remember your allegation is that the vast majority of No voters get their jollies from racism. Please don’t run away from another thread.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I know a few who aren't racists either. I never said they all were.

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So do you know any who are racists?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I know a few who aren't racists either. I never said they all were.

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You said the vast majority were.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

You said the vast majority were.

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I'm sorry. I never realized vast majority meant all.

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Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

So do you know any who are racists?

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The vast majority.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I'm sorry. I never realized vast majority meant all.

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So what does that mean and how has it been measured?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

The vast majority.

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Really? I don't believe you. There is no point debating this with you. We are on the same side but you go about it in a way that will stop people voting yes. I know that the way I go about it definitely, 100% had friends and acquaintances of mine change their minds and vote yes.

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Originally Posted by James310

How quickly is 'quickly'? We would need our own currency and that could take years. The 6 tests that have been set out for us to adopt our own currency could take 20 years or longer to meet.

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I’m not going to pretend I have any answers, whatever side of the fence we’re debating none of us can speak in absolutes. I believe Scotland would quite easily get back into the EU, and that can only be a good thing for the mid and long term for the country.

As I say, whatever path chosen is fraught with risks. Staying in a UK out of the EU, probably without a deal, is not a good place to be. Who knows what will happen to the pound, who we will trade with and on what terms etc etc. Just as there are questions about Scottish Currency and what kind of country we want to be.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

I’m not going to pretend I have any answers, whatever side of the fence we’re debating none of us can speak in absolutes. I believe Scotland would quite easily get back into the EU, and that can only be a good thing for the mid and long term for the country.

As I say, whatever path chosen is fraught with risks. Staying in a UK out of the EU, probably without a deal, is not a good place to be. Who knows what will happen to the pound, who we will trade with and on what terms etc etc. Just as there are questions about Scottish Currency and what kind of country we want to be.

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Fair enough, but if you feel Scotland will get back into the EU 'quickly' as you put it then you need to realise the reality is somewhat different. We would need our own currency, to get our own currency we would need to pass the 6 tests in the Growth Commission report, they could take decades to meet, may never actually be ever met.

Scotland would get into the EU if it meets the criteria, just like any other country would. But let's not pretend it's a simple thing that will happen in a few years, it could be decades.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I know a few who aren't racists either. I never said they all were.

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Are you saying the vast majority of the ones you know are racist?

Out of interest, how do you know them?

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Originally Posted by James310

Fair enough, but if you feel Scotland will get back into the EU 'quickly' as you put it then you need to realise the reality is somewhat different. We would need our own currency, to get our own currency we would need to pass the 6 tests in the Growth Commission report, they could take decades to meet, may never actually be ever met.

Scotland would get into the EU if it meets the criteria, just like any other country would. But let's not pretend it's a simple thing that will happen in a few years, it could be decades.

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Regarding joining the EU, Finland took less than 3 years and that was with no historical legislative alignment, Scotland is already 100% aligned, what makes you belive Scotland would take much longer?

And for clarity, the treaty specifies a stable economy, there's no specific requirement to have our own currency from the 'get go' .

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Regarding joining the EU, Finland took less than 3 years and that was with no historical legislative alignment, Scotland is already 100% aligned, what makes you belive Scotland would take much longer?

And for clarity, the treaty specifies a stable economy, there's no specific requirement to have our own currency from the 'get go' .

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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You can not join the EU using the currency of a country outside the EU, using a central bank of a country outside the EU.

If we get our own currency and meet all the other criteria then yes we can join, just like everyone else.

Just need to pass those 6 tests.

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Originally Posted by James310

The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

That clear enough for you?

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****in he’ll. I really used to have a lot of respect for you and your opinions even though they are clearly opposed to mine, but that post has left me wondering if I’ve been wrong all this time. If that’s really what you believe then I genuinely despair for this country.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

****in he’ll. I really used to have a lot of respect for you and your opinions even though they are clearly opposed to mine, but that post has left me wondering if I’ve been wrong all this time. If that’s really what you believe then I genuinely despair for this country.

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I don't like Boris, but what do you think he will do? No matter what Tory was in power he or she would be the devil to many. Do you think he will advocate exterminating Scottish people like the poem he published?

Anything he wants to do has to get through Parliament, just like anything any PM wants to do. A few years of bluster and soundbytes is what will probably happen and then he will be gone.

I could be completely wrong, time will tell.

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Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

Just a general thought on independence, not even necessarily Scottish. But has there ever been a nation that gained independence, say for example from Great Britain, that has wanted to reverse that decision? Maybe, Australia? What about New Zealand? India, yes of course they must have wanted to be ruled by England, you know the Jewell in the crown of the empire? Maybe some of the smaller countries? Some in the Caribbean maybe? What about some of the African countries? I know what about a country right on our doorstep, Ireland? Really, none of them? But surely they are bankrupt and need to be bailed out by the greats of Westminster? How can they manage without being told what to do, when to do it and how much money they can have to do it? Maybe I'm just a wee bit confused and unable to work any of that out for myself. I'm sure there will be someone along soon to put me right and explain how lucky I am

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You are lucky my friend, you’re lucky that you see this unequal union for what it is. There isn’t one country that has left the empire that has wanted to return. The arguments for remaining are utterly pathetic and revolve around issues like currency and sovereignty. The fact is that Scotland is a wealthy country that is rich in natural resources and woukd thrive on its own.

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Originally Posted by James310

I don't like Boris, but what do you think he will do? No matter what Tory was in power he or she would be the devil to many. Do you think he will advocate exterminating Scottish people like the poem he published?

Anything he wants to do has to get through Parliament, just like anything any PM wants to do. A few years of bluster and soundbytes is what will probably happen and then he will be gone.

I could be completely wrong, time will tell.

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Boris is our Trump. Unlike many people I think he will win a general election, he is unbelievably seen as a man of the people and he’s very popular amongst the working classes. What I think he’ll do is aligne us with America and drag us into a war with Iran. I don’t want to be part of a war that’s designed by arms dealers in America because they need somewhere to shoot there new weapons.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Boris is our Trump. Unlike many people I think he will win a general election, he is unbelievably seen as a man of the people and he’s very popular amongst the working classes. What I think he’ll do is aligne us with America and drag us into a war with Iran. I don’t want to be part of a war that’s designed by arms dealers in America because they need somewhere to shoot there new weapons.

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Well Parliament would have to vote to go to war if that's what he wanted. Personally don't see that happening.

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Originally Posted by James310

Well Parliament would have to vote to go to war if that's what he wanted. Personally don't see that happening.

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You don’t see Tory politicians desperate to advance their own careers backing their leader?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

You don’t see Tory politicians desperate to advance their own careers backing their leader?

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I think after the Iraq scenario then I don't see politicians backing a war against Iran for no other reason than because the US wanted one.

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Originally Posted by James310

I think after the Iraq scenario then I don't see politicians backing a war against Iran for no other reason than because the US wanted one.

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Same was said after Gulf War 1, Afghanistan and countless wars before that. What makes you so sure this one is different? With the UK leaving the EU, they need to suck up deep with Uncle Sam.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

****in he’ll. I really used to have a lot of respect for you and your opinions even though they are clearly opposed to mine, but that post has left me wondering if I’ve been wrong all this time. If that’s really what you believe then I genuinely despair for this country.

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Also..I am not going to change my position on Independence overnight on the basis of what one man, who is not even confirmed as the PM, might do. Would you flip from pro Indy to being against Indy on the basis of what one person might do, what might happen? I doubt you would, so why are you so shocked that I don't.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Same was said after Gulf War 1, Afghanistan and countless wars before that. What makes you so sure this one is different? With the UK leaving the EU, they need to suck up deep with Uncle Sam.

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You might be right, don't see it myself though.

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Originally Posted by James310

You might be right, don't see it myself though.

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That's an incredibly optimistic view considering recent History, our current government, need for trading partners, political climate and likely Prime Minister.

Bojoke's dad on the radiobox just now defending his son. Spaffing Latin phrases around. TF is the matter with these peeps?

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Bojoke's dad on the radiobox just now defending his son. Spaffing Latin phrases around. TF is the matter with these peeps?

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They seem to believe that throwing random Latin phrases about in a posh voice makes up for a lack of substance.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

That's an incredibly optimistic view considering recent History, our current government, need for trading partners, political climate and likely Prime Minister.

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While I don't disagree more generally with your argument, I'd just like to add a caveat that our most recent vote on military action in the Commons was to reject intervention in Syria to support the US after Assad's use of chemical weapons.

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Originally Posted by Sylar

While I don't disagree more generally with your argument, I'd just like to add a caveat that our most recent vote on military action in the Commons was to reject intervention in Syria to support the US after Assad's use of chemical weapons.

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Yet the first known coalition casualties in Syria were 2 British soldiers.

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Originally Posted by James310

You can not join the EU using the currency of a country outside the EU, using a central bank of a country outside the EU.

If we get our own currency and meet all the other criteria then yes we can join, just like everyone else.

Just need to pass those 6 tests.

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Is there any evidence to back that up, about the currency? As far as I, and others, can see you are the only one stating it as fact.

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Originally Posted by James310

Also..I am not going to change my position on Independence overnight on the basis of what one man, who is not even confirmed as the PM, might do. Would you flip from pro Indy to being against Indy on the basis of what one person might do, what might happen? I doubt you would, so why are you so shocked that I don't.

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I very much doubt you’ll ever change from no to yes, but we live in hope:greengrin

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Is there any evidence to back that up, about the currency? As far as I, and others, can see you are the only one stating it as fact.

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https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...rejoin-the-eu/



"If Scotland had kept the pound sterling, but the UK was outside the EU, then Scotland would not be able to demonstrate that it could commit to join the euro at some indefinite future point.

Nor – if it took up to a decade to adopt its own currency – could it show that as a member state it would use its independent monetary policy to target price stability and make its exchange rate a ‘matter of common concern’ with other member states (as required by the EU’s Lisbon treaty)."

There you go. So first point is SNP policy, keep the pound for a period of time until the 6 tests are met. No EU membership while we have the pound.

Second point, if we get our own currency, let's say 20 years (if you think that's too long tell us why) then it's another period of transition to show you can meet all the other criteria.

Do you seriously think the EU would let a country join while using the currency of a country outside the EU, while having no central bank and therefore no monetary and fiscal policy of its own. Infact the fiscal and monetary policy controlled by another country outside the EU.

Scotland will be able to join the EU like any other country, if it meets the criteria. It's just going to take a very long time. But funnily enough you never hear the SNP talk about that.

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Originally Posted by James310

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...rejoin-the-eu/



"If Scotland had kept the pound sterling, but the UK was outside the EU, then Scotland would not be able to demonstrate that it could commit to join the euro at some indefinite future point.

Nor – if it took up to a decade to adopt its own currency – could it show that as a member state it would use its independent monetary policy to target price stability and make its exchange rate a ‘matter of common concern’ with other member states (as required by the EU’s Lisbon treaty)."

There you go. So first point is SNP policy, keep the pound for a period of time until the 6 tests are met. No EU membership while we have the pound.

Second point, if we get our own currency, let's say 20 years (if you think that's too long tell us why) then it's another period of transition to show you can meet all the other criteria.

Do you seriously think the EU would let a country join while using the currency of a country outside the EU, while having no central bank and therefore no monetary and fiscal policy of its own. Infact the fiscal and monetary policy controlled by another country outside the EU.

Scotland will be able to join the EU like any other country, if it meets the criteria. It's just going to take a very long time. But funnily enough you never hear the SNP talk about that.

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You do hear the EU talking about Scotland not having any issues joining though.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

You do hear the EU talking about Scotland not having any issues joining though.

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If it meets the criteria yes, why wouldn't they allow Scotland to join if they meet the criteria? Just like any other country.

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Originally Posted by James310

If it meets the criteria yes, why wouldn't they allow Scotland to join if they meet the criteria? Just like any other country.

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You’re making a lot of assumptions on behalf of what the EU will decide if Scotland is using sterling post independence.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Feel the love!A poem published by Boris Johnson when he was editor of Spectator magazine.

The Scotch - what a verminous race!

Canny, pushy, chippy, they're all over the place.

Battening off us with false bonhomie;

Polluting our stock, undermining our economy.

Down with sandy hair and knobbly knees!

Suppress the tartan dwarves and the Wee Frees!

Ban the kilt, the skean-dhu and the sporran

As provocatively, offensively foreign!

It's time Hadrian's Wall was refortified

To pen them in a ghetto on the other side.

I would go further. The nation

Deserves not merely isolation

But comprehensive extermination.

We must not flinch from a solution.

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WTF is that? Is meant to be funny to the weirdos who read The Spectator?

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

You’re making a lot of assumptions on behalf of what the EU will decide if Scotland is using sterling post independence.

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I am not making any assumptions, it's the EUs own criteria.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Yet the first known coalition casualties in Syria were 2 British soldiers.

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I'm perhaps just missing this story, but to the best of my (albeit, quick) research abilities, I can only find one official British serviceman that was killed in Syria, and that was in March 2018? The only record I can see of two British personnel being killed are journalists?

Regardless, it was hardly the full scale deployment we've seen in the other combat situations you've cited. The UK military did not deploy to Syria in a government backed move.