Coronavirus

The growing number of Chinese public figures whose deaths are being made public is prompting people to question the official Covid death toll.

The death of Chu Lanlan, a 40-year-old opera singer, last month came as a shock to many, given how young she was.

Her family said they were saddened by her "abrupt departure", but did not give details of the cause of her death.

China scrapped its strict zero-Covid policy in December and has seen a rapid surge of infections and deaths.

There are reports of hospitals and crematoria becoming overwhelmed.

But the country has stopped publishing daily cases data, and has announced only 22 Covid deaths since December, using its own strict criteria.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-64173824

Covid Scotland: New Omicron XBB 1.5 Covid-19 variant 'one to watch out for'

https://www.scotsman.com/health/covi...ut-for-3975415

Scotland had the lowest infection rates in the UK in the most recent weekly survey.

Levels here are just over 10% lower than in England, almost 29% lower than in Wales and just over 37% lower than in Northern Ireland.

However levels in Scotland have increased by almost 63% since the last set of published figures on 23rd December.

In England, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 2,463,000 (95% credible interval: 2,338,700 to 2,593,200), equating to 4.52% of the population (an increase from 2.20% in the previous reference week), or around 1 in 20 people.

In Wales, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 173,200 (95% credible interval: 143,900 to 205,400), equating to 5.70% of the population (an increase from 1.89% in the previous reference week), or around 1 in 18 people.

In Northern Ireland, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 118,100 (95% credible interval: 101,400 to 136,300), equating to 6.43% of the population (an increase from 2.02% in the previous reference week), or around 1 in 16 people.

In Scotland, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 213,100 (95% credible interval: 172,000 to 258,300), equating to 4.05% of the population (an increase from 2.49% in the previous reference week), or around 1 in 25 people.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...t/6january2023

Scots are being urged to wear face masks in public indoor spaces in a bid to alleviate pressure on the NHS – with hospitals almost at full capacity.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said anyone with symptoms of a respiratory infection – a cold, flu or Covid – should stay at home if possible and wear a face covering if they do need to go out.

More generally, she said people should wear masks on public transport and in public indoor spaces such as hospitals, GP surgeries and other healthcare facilities.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/first-m...-near-capacity

What are the rules/guidance in Scotland just now if you have Covid? I tested positive last night and I'm finding a lot of conflicting information.

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Originally Posted by Ged

What are the rules/guidance in Scotland just now if you have Covid? I tested positive last night and I'm finding a lot of conflicting information.

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5 days isolation - that's guidance not law

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Rather than the blanket 5 days approach, the guidance now is to stay at home until you are feeling better if you have any kind of symptoms relating to a respiratory infection, regardless of whether or not you have tested positive for Covid-19.

https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses...virus-covid-19

Scotland had the second lowest infection rates in the UK in the most recent weekly survey.

Rates here are almost 4% higher than in England but are just over 19% lower than in Wales and nearly 41% lower than in Northern Ireland.

However levels in Scotland have increased by nearly 3% since last week.

In England, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 2,189,300 (95% credible interval: 2,094,800 to 2,283,200), equating to 4.02% of the population, or around 1 in 25 people.

In Wales, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 157,000 (95% credible interval: 136,500 to 180,100), equating to 5.16% of the population, or around 1 in 19 people.

In Northern Ireland, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 129,100 (95% credible interval: 109,800 to 151,200), equating to 7.04% of the population, or around 1 in 14 people.

In Scotland, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 219,600 (95% credible interval: 189,300 to 251,600), equating to 4.17% of the population, or around 1 in 25 people.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat.../13january2023

China reports almost 60,000 COVID-related deaths in just over a month (msn.com)

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Originally Posted by He's here!

China reports almost 60,000 COVID-related deaths in just over a month (msn.com)

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Sound a massive underestimate

PaulMainwood
·
Would guess 60,000 deaths approximately a tenth of the true figure, but it’s a step on from maintaining they’re in single figures

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Sound a massive underestimate

PaulMainwood
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Would guess 60,000 deaths approximately a tenth of the true figure, but it’s a step on from maintaining they’re in single figures

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It's madness

But I do believe there were quite a few posters on here decrying there incredibly strict rules around covid as a disgrace

They relaxed them and now......

I wonder what folk on the ground are thinking is better? I'm sure alot of families will be nigh on wiped out

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

It's madness

But I do believe there were quite a few posters on here decrying there incredibly strict rules around covid as a disgrace

They relaxed them and now......

I wonder what folk on the ground are thinking is better? I'm sure alot of families will be nigh on wiped out

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

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They couldn't stay locked up literally forever. There problem was vaccines not lockdowns.

Every other nation bar none opened up after fully vaccinating the vulnerable. Its meant the vulnerable were protected as good as they can be, then the population got covid whilst having good immunity. Almost every person in the world has had covid now bar China.

They had a shocking uptake in their over 50s under 60%. It was secondly a poor vaccine, much less protection than mrna. The didn't boost and the last vaccination was a long time ago. Put that mix into a nation with zero infection immunity and this is what you get.

They also didn't open as they decided **** it let's go. The virus was out of control without the prevention they had. The same thing happened in Hong Kong last year. Full serious covid rules but uncontrollable spread.

Germany, Eastern Europe and Hong Kong had terrible deaths last year and France, Spain, UK had little. They all opened up fully the only difference was the first group had poor vaccination rates in over 60s.

There's still anti vax nutters grifting now, but it's the only thing that stopped countries collapsing with unbelievable deaths

Scotland had the second lowest infection rates again in the UK in the most recent weekly survey.

Rates here are almost 25% higher than in England but are just over 17% lower than in Wales and nearly 23% lower than in Northern Ireland.

Levels in Scotland have also decreased by nearly 22% since last week.

In England, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 1,461,900 (95% credible interval: 1,394,000 to 1,529,700), equating to 2.61% of the population, or around 1 in 40 people.

In Wales, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 121,600 (95% credible interval: 103,200 to 140,900), equating to 3.94% of the population, or around 1 in 25 people.

In Northern Ireland, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 77,300 (95% credible interval: 63,400 to 92,300), equating to 4.22% of the population, or around 1 in 25 people.

In Scotland, the estimated number of people testing positive for COVID-19 was 171,500 (95% credible interval: 147,700 to 197,000), equating to 3.26% of the population, or around 1 in 30 people.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat.../20january2023

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ERCOUNTED.html

I missed this. Interesting

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Originally Posted by Zambernardi1875

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ERCOUNTED.html

I missed this. Interesting

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Thankfully no one uses the figures of covid dead from positive tests. The uk did 10× the tests of other countries so will have higher figures that say Hungary that done minimal testing.

Every expert worth there salt uses excess deaths as a good guide. It's clear the uk had well over 100,000 because of covid, the US multiple times that. Red US states had much higher excess deaths, due to vaccine hesitancy

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Thankfully no one uses the figures of covid dead from positive tests. The uk did 10× the tests of other countries so will have higher figures that say Hungary that done minimal testing.

Every expert worth there salt uses excess deaths as a good guide. It's clear the uk had well over 100,000 because of covid, the US multiple times that. Red US states had much higher excess deaths, due to vaccine hesitancy

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Does an 🚨 go off on you’re phone when anyone questions the covid narrative

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Originally Posted by Zambernardi1875

Does an 🚨 go off on you’re phone when anyone questions the covid narrative

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It would be going off constantly as there are millions of nutters out there that get there information from poor sources. The data collection is absolutely huge and irrefutable now, well you'd think.

I'm not that fussy about it anymore to be honest. Activaxers got absolutely trounced in Britain, 90 odd % of adults, job done. Huge % getting there boosters each time. The only people still getting worked up are the ones that read the daily mail and Facebook news

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It would be going off constantly as there are millions of nutters out there that get there information from poor sources. The data collection is absolutely huge and irrefutable now, well you'd think.

I'm not that fussy about it anymore to be honest. Activaxers got absolutely trounced in Britain, 90 odd % of adults, job done. Huge % getting there boosters each time. The only people still getting worked up are the ones that read the daily mail and Facebook news

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Not that fussed but will rush on here to refute anyone with stuff you don’t agree with, I’ll take every professional opinion on board not just be brainwashed by only the people that suit my agenda.

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Originally Posted by Zambernardi1875

Not that fussed but will rush on here to refute anyone with stuff you don’t agree with, I’ll take every professional opinion on board not just be brainwashed by only the people that suit my agenda.

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It's a message board it's hardly shocking that people come on and rip up nonsense. It's really not my opinion I follow its every respectable health expert in the world. Unless most nations like the uk, Germany, Russia, China, Taiwan ect ect all working hand and hand together to produce misinformation on vaccine effectiveness or the horrors of covid.

Moderna have just announced today a vaccine that stops 92% of severe disease with RSV. Its mrna so some nut jobs might not take it.

They are developing a mrna vaccine to help fight cancer with pfizer also doing similar. That will test the resolve if they get success, fingers crossed

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It's a message board it's hardly shocking that people come on and rip up nonsense. It's really not my opinion I follow its every respectable health expert in the world. Unless most nations like the uk, Germany, Russia, China, Taiwan ect ect all working hand and hand together to produce misinformation on vaccine effectiveness or the horrors of covid.

Moderna have just announced today a vaccine that stops 92% of severe disease with RSV. Its mrna so some nut jobs might not take it.

They are developing a mrna vaccine to help fight cancer with pfizer also doing similar. That will test the resolve if they get success, fingers crossed

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Still not bothered though 😉 for someone who floods these threads with links to Twitter.

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Originally Posted by Zambernardi1875

Still not bothered though 😉 for someone who floods these threads with links to Twitter.

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From actual journalists, not links from the daily mail US

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/j...accine-booster

Looks like boosters in future will be given out in with the flu vaccine in autumn as it was this year. They will also only be given to the same groups 50+ and those with health needs. immunocompromised groups will keep getting a spring booster also. Seemed to be successful this year so I can understand it

I'm fully boosted and have just got covid for the second time. Whole family have now got it and it seems as bad as when I got it unvaccinated.

Be careful out there folks.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/j...accine-booster

Looks like boosters in future will be given out in with the flu vaccine in autumn as it was this year. They will also only be given to the same groups 50+ and those with health needs. immunocompromised groups will keep getting a spring booster also. Seemed to be successful this year so I can understand it

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I was up at my grandads last night and saw a leaflet sitting about another covid spring booster. I think he might even have already had it but he's not always the most reliable in what he tells you these days so I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I was up at my grandads last night and saw a leaflet sitting about another covid spring booster. I think he might even have already had it but he's not always the most reliable in what he tells you these days so I could be wrong.

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The winter programme doesn't end until the end of March. He might have been for another type of vaccination and got them confused. Info on the groups eligble was just released last week, noticed it on another forum.

https://www.nhsinform.scot/spring-co...vid-19-booster

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Originally Posted by Hibby70

I'm fully boosted and have just got covid for the second time. Whole family have now got it and it seems as bad as when I got it unvaccinated.

Be careful out there folks.

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Hope you and you're family all make a speedy recovery.

Whole family got covid, so much for going out for the Derby don't know if that's a good thing or not 😁

World beating

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FskqZl1X...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by grunt

World beating

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FskqZl1X...pg&name=medium

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MPs should be in jail the way they handled things.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

MPs should be in jail the way they handled things.

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It's only if protest that fact that you actually get the jail.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

MPs should be in jail the way they handled things.

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Read the para above the graph.
Due to varying protocols etc. ….

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Read the para above the graph.
Due to varying protocols etc. ….

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Yep, it could be a whole lot more.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Yep, it could be a whole lot more.

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Or other countries could have a whole lot more instead.

The graph isn't a good look for the UK response or for Sweden's laissez faire approach to covid.

Then you look at New Zealand who took about as different an approach as it was possible to take from the UK and we're lavished with praised for that and they don't seem to be doing too well either.

A lot went wrong and lessons have to be learned from it so we are better prepared in future. Looking at it retrospectively I think the harsh truth is there really was no perfect way to deal wit COVID.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Read the para above the graph.
Due to varying protocols etc. ….

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This is grasping at straws. We all recognise the difficulty of clearly defining the role of COVID as a cause of death, we all remember the discussions about the difference between dying "of COVID" and dying "with COVID". Notwithstanding, this graph has been produced by a recognised statistical organisation, the paragraph points out the possible limits of the data, but I don't think we can easily dismiss the findings. Maybe you can, but I can't.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Yep, it could be a whole lot more.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Or other countries could have a whole lot more instead.

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I think you'd see a different caveat if they thought the numbers could be significantly different.

I should point out for those who are discussing the different approaches of countries to dealing with COVID (e.g. PB), this graph only represents the last year. I think it tells us more about the Government's dealing with the post pandemic phase of the virus.

They handled things about the same as other European countries with regards to deaths. England did a little better than Scotland but the difference was small. Excess deaths is the agreed best way to find out how many died. The graph above isn't any use as the UK tested about 10 times more than many other nations, so obviously had much higher deaths than nations that did hardly any testing. To be fair it does say that in the graph that it can't be used as balanced.

Good thread it's old now but the numbers are similar now that covid deaths are tiny

https://twitter.com/drraghibali/stat...27961084264450

Covid is really effecting excess deaths that much just now. What is is the NHS struggling, huge backlog and terrible ambulance response times

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Originally Posted by grunt

I think you'd see a different caveat if they thought the numbers could be significantly different.

I should point out for those who are discussing the different approaches of countries to dealing with COVID (e.g. PB), this graph only represents the last year. I think it tells us more about the Government's dealing with the post pandemic phase of the virus.

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It does but perhaps not in the way your thinking. UK is scaled-down testing but is still testing huge more people in any nation bar Denmark I think. Belgium lower down the graph has pretty much stopped testing, some states in the US likewise. I think the UK will eventually go the same way and stop testing, they already have with the ONS ending

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It does but perhaps not in the way you're thinking. UK is scaled-down testing but is still testing huge more people in any nation bar Denmark I think. Belgium lower down the graph has pretty much stopped testing, some states in the US likewise. I think the UK will eventually go the same way and stop testing, they already have with the ONS ending

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The graph is about "confirmed COVID deaths". Are you suggesting that the testing that the UK is apparently performing will impact on COVID related deaths? I'm not sure I see the connection.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Or other countries could have a whole lot more instead.

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I'd rather look at it that every country made mistakes and the graph is as accurate a representation as it's possible to get.

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Originally Posted by grunt

The graph is about "confirmed COVID deaths". Are you suggesting that the testing that the UK is apparently performing will impact on COVID related deaths? I'm not sure I see the connection.

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Yes of course. For example uk tested about 4x per person more than Belgium, so crudely you'd expect us to have 4 times the deaths found. Somewhere like Hungary or Belarus hardly tested and got barely any covid deaths, but we know they done much worse than most due to the excess deaths.

As the twitter thread says excess deaths is the gold standard in finding out how many died and takes away the different testing amounts nations did.

Everyone in Europe has pretty much had covid and most twice. The only factor that changed how a nation done in regards to deaths was whether the person was vaccinated when they eventually caught it, particularly older groups.

If vaccines didn't come we were knackered as we couldn't shield it forever. In hindsight the best policy would have been hard lockdown get the nation fully vaccinated and then open

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I'd rather look at it that every country made mistakes and the graph is as accurate a representation as it's possible to get.

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It isn't

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Yes of course. For example uk tested about 4x per person more than Belgium, so crudely you'd expect us to have 4 times the deaths found. Somewhere like Hungary or Belarus hardly tested and got barely any covid deaths, but we know they done much worse than most due to the excess deaths.

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:confused:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It isn't

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Based on data available, it is.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Based on data available, it is.

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You wouldn't find one epidemiologist that says a good way of finding out how many died in each nation is the number of reported deaths. If so well done Belarus who had no mitigations, testing and poor vaccine uptake. Despite this they only had a few covid deaths unlike Western European nations that tested more and had lockdowns.

By no means perfect excess deaths takes how many more people died over the 5 year average. It takes out the massive differences in testing figures.

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Originally Posted by grunt

:confused:

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S27 is saying, if a country hardly tests anyone for covid, then they’ll find hardly anyone who’s died because of or with covid. UK tested far more than most countries, so were always going to be able to determine much more accurately if covid was present

Uk did lots wrong though. They locked down to late and too light imo. They released old people from hospital back into care homes without testing. We also had poor icu capacity pre covid compared to say Germany.

We did great on testing and vaccine roll out though. The public not listening to vaccine misinformation like a section of society did in Eastern Europe and the US helped as more than anything though

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Originally Posted by McD

S27 is saying, if a country hardly tests anyone for covid, then they’ll find hardly anyone who’s died because of or with covid. UK tested far more than most countries, so were always going to be able to determine much more accurately if covid was present

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Yes but the testing he's talking about is not the same as determining the cause of death? Maybe it is. I don't know.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Yes but the testing he's talking about is not the same as determining the cause of death? Maybe it is. I don't know.

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In the UKs case it is anyone who died in the 28 days after a positive covid test. Another reason excess deaths is a better judge is it takes away the died of or with covid debate

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Originally Posted by grunt

Yes but the testing he's talking about is not the same as determining the cause of death? Maybe it is. I don't know.

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you’re correct, it’s not. However, the caveat to that is, if a country didn’t do much testing, then they can rarely know if covid played a part in someone’s death. There’s huge variance about how much testing was done from one country to another, so the graph shown isn’t really much help. I’m not even sure if the same definition of a covid death is used.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

In the UKs case it is anyone who died in the 28 days after a positive covid test. Another reason excess deaths is a better judge is it takes away the died of or with covid debate

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:agree: exactly

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Originally Posted by McD

you’re correct, it’s not. However, the caveat to that is, if a country didn’t do much testing, then they can rarely know if covid played a part in someone’s death. There’s huge variance about how much testing was done from one country to another, so the graph shown isn’t really much help. I’m not even sure if the same definition of a covid death is used.

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What's the point in my going to all this effort to show that the UK Govt is hopeless if you're going to come along and post reasonable arguments that show it might not be?

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Originally Posted by grunt

What's the point in my going to all this effort to show that the UK Govt is hopeless if you're going to come along and post reasonable arguments that show it might not be?

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:greengrin To be honest, I was close to adding a point about there being plenty of ammunition for kicking the uk govt separate from covid hahaha

and a well deserved kicking it would be :greengrin

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Originally Posted by grunt

What's the point in my going to all this effort to show that the UK Govt is hopeless if you're going to come along and post reasonable arguments that show it might not be?

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There can't be anything more hopeless in a disgusting fatal way, than trying to make more space in hospitals by getting old people, lying that your testing them, don't test them, send them to old folks homes where you then cause deaths.

That's the kind off stuff people should be in court for. Getting unqualified friends contracts for ppe that they have no history of making, also should cause court cases.

The deliberate lying and profiteering seems to have been unequally British. Also the state of the NHS which didn't help and now is causing excess deaths to continue. The NHS is on the edge and I don't think labour has an answer either unfortunately

I

Meanwhile....
https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/st...H0h-a714g&s=19


Read it and weap.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Meanwhile....
https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/st...H0h-a714g&s=19


Read it and weap.

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It is a particularly sad demonstration of how the voting population are so easily fooled. It is so obviously fake but will have done the rounds and cemented quite a few views or encouraged more hard of thinking folks to think differently. All it goes to prove is it is very easy to manipulate on social media. The issue is that democracy is no longer about truth and weight of argument but about likes, shares and lies.

Covid vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in there first year a new study finds 👏

https://twitter.com/jonathanstea/sta...47077605621761

Me and the missus are living proof that Covid is definitely not over. Despite having both gone through it in August of last year, we both tested positive (again) on Monday.

She was hit quite badly this time, whereas I just seem to be exhausted more than anything.

It's put paid to our plans for the weekend, as I was going to the game and she was gonna go to the Botanic Gardens for the first time in ages. Even if we're feeling better by Sunday, I wouldn't want to risk passing it on to anybody

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Me and the missus are living proof that Covid is definitely not over. Despite having both gone through it in August of last year, we both tested positive (again) on Monday.

She was hit quite badly this time, whereas I just seem to be exhausted more than anything.

It's put paid to our plans for the weekend, as I was going to the game and she was gonna go to the Botanic Gardens for the first time in ages. Even if we're feeling better by Sunday, I wouldn't want to risk passing it on to anybody

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Went through my workplace a couple of weeks ago and 3 of my family members have had it in the last week or so. It's seems It's the sore throat and tiredness that's worse this time around.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Me and the missus are living proof that Covid is definitely not over. Despite having both gone through it in August of last year, we both tested positive (again) on Monday.

She was hit quite badly this time, whereas I just seem to be exhausted more than anything.

It's put paid to our plans for the weekend, as I was going to the game and she was gonna go to the Botanic Gardens for the first time in ages. Even if we're feeling better by Sunday, I wouldn't want to risk passing it on to anybody

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It'll never be over, its joined the other endemic coronaviruses. The majority of the population will get it once every year now unfortunately. Everyone should get a booster each year to blunt it if they are offered. Hope your both better soon

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Originally Posted by Jay

Went through my workplace a couple of weeks ago and 3 of my family members have had it in the last week or so. It's seems It's the sore throat and tiredness that's worse this time around.

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Yeah, that's pretty much how it's affected me.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It'll never be over, its joined the other endemic coronaviruses. The majority of the population will get it once every year now unfortunately. Everyone should get a booster each year to blunt it if they are offered. Hope your both better soon

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Cheers :aok:

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Originally Posted by Jay

Went through my workplace a couple of weeks ago and 3 of my family members have had it in the last week or so. It's seems It's the sore throat and tiredness that's worse this time around.

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It took a wee tour through my work a month or so ago as well.

I either managed to avoid it or I was completely asymptomatic. I'm leaning towards the former as no one else in the house got ill either.

Then again I have a child in P1 and another in nursery so our house must be immune to just about everything now as we have had the lot:greengrin

What do folk who have better informed opinions than me think of this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2351604.html

I have to say that my gut is to agree. I wasn't sold on lockdown at the start but put that down to me being just a punter. I supported most of the measures up until the December 21 lockdown and came out of it all wondering if it had been over zealous. Passing of time, and memory perhaps, sees me wondering what we were playing at.

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

What do folk who have better informed opinions than me think of this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2351604.html

I have to say that my gut is to agree. I wasn't sold on lockdown at the start but put that down to me being just a punter. I supported most of the measures up until the December 21 lockdown and came out of it all wondering if it had been over zealous. Passing of time, and memory perhaps, sees me wondering what we were playing at.

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It's entirely possible that, in retrospect, some of the rules were a bit over the top, but it was an exceptional set of circumstances.

I think many governments and health organisations erred on the side of caution, mostly because they weren't sure quite what they were dealing with.


In saying that, though, there were occasions when relaxing the rules actually caused massive increases in the number of people catching the disease, for example the 'Eat Out To Help Out' scheme. Events like that made me think that the cautious approach probably was for the best after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

What do folk who have better informed opinions than me think of this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2351604.html

I have to say that my gut is to agree. I wasn't sold on lockdown at the start but put that down to me being just a punter. I supported most of the measures up until the December 21 lockdown and came out of it all wondering if it had been over zealous. Passing of time, and memory perhaps, sees me wondering what we were playing at.

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I've always argued that history will judge our covid response harshly. That is easy to say with hindsight though. For all I don't care for many of our leaders of the time politically or ideologically, from Sturgeon to Johnson, I don't envy the position they were put in. It must have been a horrendous decision to wrestle with and a meaningful balance without the information we have now must have been near impossible to achieve.

I thought lockdown and the public response actually showed quite a nasty underside to a lot of the public that transcended any political ideology. People who for various reasons were in a relatively fortunate position when it came to getting through it lacking much in the way of empathy for those who weren't in such a position. People in spacious homes with big garden and financial security sneering at those who found it difficult because they were confined to a small flat with limited outdoor space and insecure employment in heavily impacted industries. The same people not brave enough to confront their own prejudices but rather projecting them onto 'doctors and nurses' and the like.

I found lockdown a real challenge, I was delighted to go back to work after only a few weeks and struggled when I was furloughed again when hospitality was shut down again in October/November 2020. I found it hard watching people I had dealt with for years lose their businesses. I struggled watching my daughters formative years in education be very stop start and her personality become increasingly withdrawn and less sociable. By the end I'll admit to pushing the boundaries of the rules to breaking point and probably beyond.

I hope studies such as the one linked and the enquiry as a whole put us in a position to be far better prepared when, not if, something like this happens again. I also hope those in power are more willing to consult a wider range of experts when preparing a response. There are academics in Scotland who argued the wrong people, without specific expertise in a disease like COVID, were far too influential in the decision making process. That at least 2 of those individuals are heavily involved in our response to avian flu suggests at least some lessons have already been learned.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

It's entirely possible that, in retrospect, some of the rules were a bit over the top, but it was an exceptional set of circumstances.

I think many governments and health organisations erred on the side of caution, mostly because they weren't sure quite what they were dealing with.


In saying that, though, there were occasions when relaxing the rules actually caused massive increases in the number of people catching the disease, for example the 'Eat Out To Help Out' scheme. Events like that made me think that the cautious approach probably was for the best after all.

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I think Eat out to Help Out is an easy target.

Of course it was potentially unwise but much of the University of Warwick paper that attributed a huge rise in infection to the scheme was debated against after peer review and some of the media headlines were largely discredited.

It's worth noting that during and the weeks after EOHO the infection rate in the UK was broadly in line with comparable European nations that had no such scheme.

I think the study is a bit of a nonsense as it's going by recorded deaths, how can you compare us, to nations that had no lockdown did little tests and recorded a small number of deaths.

It was brutal but there was no choice but trying lockdown and praying vaccines worked. About 20% of the population had been exposed to the virus when the vaccines started rolling. The rest caught it after being vaccinated. Your saying the vaccines didn't work if you think getting more exposed pre rollout. Obviously everyone never got vaccinated but the ones with the highest chance of dying were vaccinated in the high 90s %.

I've seen studies from both mathematicians and epidemiologists both estimate deaths of 500k if we were all exposed pre vaccine

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I think Eat out to Help Out is an easy target.

Of course it was potentially unwise but much of the University of Warwick paper that attributed a huge rise in infection to the scheme was debated against after peer review and some of the media headlines were largely discredited.

It's worth noting that during and the weeks after EOHO the infection rate in the UK was broadly in line with comparable European nations that had no such scheme.

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There was a low rate, but places with higher uptake of eoho had higher increases in the following weeks. Oxford study

https://academic.oup.com/ej/article/132/643/1200/6382847

Demontford uni study shows a rise in deaths in the Pakistani community due to eoho, 30% of the community work in hospitality
https://www.dmu.ac.uk/about-dmu/news/2021/july/eat-out-to-help-out-caused-dramatic-rise-in-deaths.aspx


It wasn't a big enough scheme or behavioural change to cause a nation wide rise or fall, no single mitigation is. But it obviously isn't a help pre vaccination. Sunak was very anti any mitigations, having nut jobs like Dr Gupta talking to the cabinet.

We were always saying that excess deaths will be the only real measure of success or otherwise in dealing with the pandemic.

Well here it is....

BBC News - Covid: How do UK pandemic death rates compare?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65975154

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

We were always saying that excess deaths will be the only real measure of success or otherwise in dealing with the pandemic.

Well here it is....

BBC News - Covid: How do UK pandemic death rates compare?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65975154

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We did better than the European average. Only a handful of European nations did better. Sweeden did better than most nations with the least restrictions. I think a great health service, healthy nation and attitude change might have done the heavy lifting in Sweeden, but God knows.

No surprise the nations with least vaccination did the worse or that Scotland and England did about the same

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

We did better than the European average. Only a handful of European nations did better. Sweeden did better than most nations with the least restrictions. I think a great health service, healthy nation and attitude change might have done the heavy lifting in Sweeden, but God knows.

No surprise the nations with least vaccination did the worse or that Scotland and England did about the same

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My sister in law that lives in Sweden also suggests they tend to be a much less social bunch than she's experienced elsewhere

Household mixing by culture (in her eyes) was already at a low bar

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Tested positive for a second time this morning. Had been ill since Sunday with stomach cramps, diarrhoea and sickness, felt that way early Sunday morning, couldnt eat or take my diabetes meds so only drinking water

Started to feel a wee bit better this morning but developed a bit of an itchy throat and a slight cough so thought **** it I will test, ****ing positive, have my Auntys funeral on Thursday too 🥲

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Originally Posted by Bridge hibs

Tested positive for a second time this morning. Had been ill since Sunday with stomach cramps, diarrhoea and sickness, felt that way early Sunday morning, couldnt eat or take my diabetes meds so only drinking water

Started to feel a wee bit better this morning but developed a bit of an itchy throat and a slight cough so thought **** it I will test, ****ing positive, have my Auntys funeral on Thursday too 🥲

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Very like the symptoms I had, albeit at Christmas time 2021! My sickness only lasted a day and was definitely the worst part. Didn’t test positive for about 4 days after by which time it was the throat and cough you described, with mild flu feeling and very tired… and it was a wedding I missed as a result.

Fingers crossed you can turn round quicker and get to the funeral, but I’d be setting myself to be spending a few days in yet. Sounds like you should be past the worst symptoms wise though 👍

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Very like the symptoms I had, albeit at Christmas time 2021! My sickness only lasted a day and was definitely the worst part. Didn’t test positive for about 4 days after by which time it was the throat and cough you described, with mild flu feeling and very tired… and it was a wedding I missed as a result.

Fingers crossed you can turn round quicker and get to the funeral, but I’d be setting myself to be spending a few days in yet. Sounds like you should be past the worst symptoms wise though 👍

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Cheers mate, yeah a bit of a double whammy, thought it was just something I had eaten and the sore throat with the sickness but bloody positive again, feel ok apart from a bit of a cough though and entirely different from my previous covid symptoms

I've been feeling awful for a couple of days and although I was negative yesterday, I tested positive this evening.

The symptoms have been weird though. Along with the fatigue and fluey feeling, I've been getting a very sore throat through the night, only to find it's gone in the morning. I actually started to wonder if it had been sore at all. (It had).

Last night, I coughed for about 4 hours nonstop but that's eased off quite a bit too. Tfft because it was getting bloody sore.

It's not gone away, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I've been feeling awful for a couple of days and although I was negative yesterday, I tested positive this evening.

The symptoms have been weird though. Along with the fatigue and fluey feeling, I've been getting a very sore throat through the night, only to find it's gone in the morning. I actually started to wonder if it had been sore at all. (It had).

Last night, I coughed for about 4 hours nonstop but that's eased off quite a bit too. Tfft because it was getting bloody sore.

It's not gone away, that's for sure.

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It'll never go away its endemic and most will get it every few years. The testing is tiny so most will put it down as a cold. I'd keep topping up my boosters if anyone is eligible as it really does dampen its effect

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It'll never go away its endemic and most will get it every few years. The testing is tiny so most will put it down as a cold. I'd keep topping up my boosters if anyone is eligible as it really does dampen its effect

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I'll definitely top up if/when I get offered a booster.

I see there are still vaccination centres dotted about. Can you just drop in and get another vaccine?

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

I see there are still vaccination centres dotted about. Can you just drop in and get another vaccine?

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I don't think that's the case in York.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I don't think that's the case in York.

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Probably not, but when I walk past them in Edinburgh there's hardly anybody ever in them but staff dotted around.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I'll definitely top up if/when I get offered a booster.

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Good man hopefully loads do. Get well soon and a good excuse to get the feet up and eat ice cream

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Probably not, but when I walk past them in Edinburgh there's hardly anybody ever in them but staff dotted around.

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Nah only eligible people got spring booster. Anyone eligible for flu jab plus some more will get offered winter.

I'm not sure why they don't just let chemists sell it for a small price to non eligible now

My partner tested positive last Thursday, a bit of a problem at 38 weeks pregnant.

Seemingly not that much of a risk to baby but more risky for mum so that, combined with her age, means that I’m having to give her daily injections to thin her blood.

She’s close to being over it and back to normal now but it’s been a bit of a challenge having her bed bound for a bit during the school holidays whilst we’ve been trying to get our flat ready for our impending arrival whilst I’m also trying to get as many loose ends as possible tied up at work before taking some time off.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Good man hopefully loads do. Get well soon and a good excuse to get the feet up and eat ice cream

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👍

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Originally Posted by Smartie

My partner tested positive last Thursday, a bit of a problem at 38 weeks pregnant.

Seemingly not that much of a risk to baby but more risky for mum so that, combined with her age, means that I’m having to give her daily injections to thin her blood.

She’s close to being over it and back to normal now but it’s been a bit of a challenge having her bed bound for a bit during the school holidays whilst we’ve been trying to get our flat ready for our impending arrival whilst I’m also trying to get as many loose ends as possible tied up at work before taking some time off.

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I hope it all goes well. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

My partner tested positive last Thursday, a bit of a problem at 38 weeks pregnant.

Seemingly not that much of a risk to baby but more risky for mum so that, combined with her age, means that I’m having to give her daily injections to thin her blood.

She’s close to being over it and back to normal now but it’s been a bit of a challenge having her bed bound for a bit during the school holidays whilst we’ve been trying to get our flat ready for our impending arrival whilst I’m also trying to get as many loose ends as possible tied up at work before taking some time off.

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Yikes. Glad she is getting over it quickly. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I'll definitely top up if/when I get offered a booster.

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are they still offering boosters? Not had one since everyone was invited to get their booster/3rd injection

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Originally Posted by McD

are they still offering boosters? Not had one since everyone was invited to get their booster/3rd injection

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I was offered a summer one a couple of months ago but turned it down. I'll take an annual one with my flu jag

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Originally Posted by McD

are they still offering boosters? Not had one since everyone was invited to get their booster/3rd injection

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If you're eligible you'll get offered each winter, think it's over 50, health care workers, Co morbidities ect

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I've been feeling awful for a couple of days and although I was negative yesterday, I tested positive this evening.

The symptoms have been weird though. Along with the fatigue and fluey feeling, I've been getting a very sore throat through the night, only to find it's gone in the morning. I actually started to wonder if it had been sore at all. (It had).

Last night, I coughed for about 4 hours nonstop but that's eased off quite a bit too. Tfft because it was getting bloody sore.

It's not gone away, that's for sure.

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My dad tested positive on Sunday with much the same symptoms.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

I see there are still vaccination centres dotted about. Can you just drop in and get another vaccine?

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The ones in Edinburgh seem to be doing pneumococcal vaccines.

Not trying to scaremonger, but I tested positive this morning and have been in an awful state. Rules me out of the game tonight but the TV is compensation. This is my fourth dose and its by far the worst I have been. The positive line on the LFT developed almost straight away.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

If you're eligible you'll get offered each winter, think it's over 50, health care workers, Co morbidities ect

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It's over 65s and vulnerable this winter. Only flu jabs available to us 50-somethings.

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

My dad tested positive on Sunday with much the same symptoms.

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All fine since the weekend.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

It's over 65s and vulnerable this winter. Only flu jabs available to us 50-somethings.

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That doesn't fill me with joy. Had the flu jab text though.

I tested positive last Sunday, burning sensation in my nose, headache and a cough, worst thing was a runny nose like a tap.Slept an awful lot during the day and night, but never really felt that ill.

Media seem to be ramping up the scare stories. Sky News in particular but also Daily Record today.

Every Tory government needs a Covid distraction from screwing all aspects of public life up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-67005464

Manchester surgeon who claimed Covid-19 was a hoax is struck-off

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Originally Posted by grunt

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-67005464

Manchester surgeon who claimed Covid-19 was a hoax is struck-off

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Good. Cranks cost lives in the last few years.

Separately I read that from next year we'll be able to buy the booster from pharmacies ect, good news for those who won't be eligible for a free jag

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...covid-omicron/

That's it solved then.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...covid-omicron/

That's it solved then.

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Yep.

I drink a lot of green tea and have never (knowingly) had Covid.

Close the thread.