Tories are still lying *******s

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

What don't you like about socialism the most?:

Free health care at source.

Free education at source for children.

Allowances for disabled people.

Allowances for people out of work.

Or do you have another socialism pet peeve that annoys you more?

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I think I'll pass on this one if you don't mind. I've tried to give honest answers but if I start slagging off socialism on a thread about hating the Tories I'm only opening myself up to a verbal kicking here!!

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

I think I'll pass on this one if you don't mind. I've tried to give honest answers but if I start slagging off socialism on a thread about hating the Tories I'm only opening myself up to a verbal kicking here!!

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The thing I don't get about the current batch of Tories is that they are almost a caricature of what right wingers normally slaughter socialists for.

All animals are equal - except some are more equal than others. Tax rises, at a time when government corruption is a bad as it's been. Chumocracy, lack of transparency when it comes to allocating vast sums of public money. Promises of "levelling up" but only focusing any extra money into places where people on their side toe their particular line. These are all meant to be features of end game socialism, when it has run it's course, gone too far and got out of control. All the poorly paid would almost certainly be on strike if it wasn't for the dismantling of the unions and the fact that most of them work for massive corporations based overseas who pay little or no tax (probably as advised and lobbied for by our elected representatives).

My beliefs when it comes to left and right will flip around a bit from time to time but essentially I believe that both can work. What I object to is the total lack of honesty and integrity that this government have and the lack of respect they have for the ordinary person. Politicians being dishonest isn't necessarily new but I find myself getting angrier than ever when I hear Johnson dodging questions the way he did yesterday and basically any time Rees-Mogg opens his mouth. Who the **** do they actually think they're kidding?

There are genuine, decent reason reasons for voting conservative (or certainly for a centre right party). I just don't think that anyone who votes for them votes for those reasons, so as long as folk are content that they're either the party who leave you with the most in your own pocket, they're the most competent when it comes to the economy, whether it's because they growl the loudest at the dinghies of brown people in the English Channel, because their leader is the one you'd most like to have a pint with, because they might actually "get Brexit done" (whatever that means and whatever the cost), because they are the best for a bit of good old Union Jack flag ****ging or because they are the toughest on imaginary woke situations that actually have very little bearing on the lives of the vast majority of people - we're going to be stuck with them and their habits for a while.

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Originally Posted by wookie70

It would depend on why they like her. Is it because they view her as professional, honest etc or would they just like to share a can of Irn Bru with her down at the local Cafe. If they view her as trustworthy and professional that may be a reason to vote for her. Being likeable has little to do with it though

I think the point you make on how you vote and where you get your information probably sums up the electorate. Voting has become too complicated as well as becoming to simple. The characters are simplified with Corbyn in the Russian Hat etc and the policies are the same with three worded slogans being all that is required to win the British Public over. The actual game of politics is probably more complicated than ever with a digital and traditional economy, a hugely hostile world and a planet on the brink.

I tend to read all the manifestos, take in as much as I can on TV but only in terms of listening to the politicians rather than the spin put on by journalist. I then weigh what the manifestos say against the likelihood of the politicians in that party doing what they say they will do. That means I will never vote Tory as they only make promises to gain power and change with the wind when they get in. I'm pretty much in the no-one left to vote for as I can't really see any party who is heading the way I want Scotland and the UK to head and also who I remotely trust to actually do what they say. I'll return to spoiling my paper from now on as I did for more than a decade after Blair got in. A spoilt paper says what I think about who I want to lead us and I would much prefer there was a none of the above box and a genuine campaign to vote for that. I like 80s movies as you can probably tell

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I felt quite bad about not intending to vote in the last Scottish election so I went along and simply spoiled my ballot.

I still took part in the democratic process but made my point albeit in a way that is ultimately meaningless and futile. Come the next election if there aren't significant shifts from any of the 2 major parties I would seriously consider voting for then I will do the same again. I might have voted SSP on the list this year but they didn't stand candidates. I'm beyond voting for the least bad option now. They say you get more right wing as you get older but I find myself thinking increasingly radical thoughts. I'm fed up hearing about consensus and watching parties walk a tight rope trying to offer sops to people across the political spectrum.

I quite like the rhetoric and action from a few of the younger and new Labour MSPs, Pam Duncan-Glancy and particularly Mercedes Villalba. The latter has spoken well multiple times in Holyrood and seems very active locally. Hopefully a few of these types can find themselves closer to the real power of the party in the years to come.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I felt quite bad about not intending to vote in the last Scottish election so I went along and simply spoiled my ballot.

I still took part in the democratic process but made my point albeit in a way that is ultimately meaningless and futile. Come the next election if there aren't significant shifts from any of the 2 major parties I would seriously consider voting for then I will do the same again. I might have voted SSP on the list this year but they didn't stand candidates. I'm beyond voting for the least bad option now. They say you get more right wing as you get older but I find myself thinking increasingly radical thoughts. I'm fed up hearing about consensus and watching parties walk a tight rope trying to offer sops to people across the political spectrum.

I quite like the rhetoric and action from a few of the younger and new Labour MSPs, Pam Duncan-Glancy and particularly Mercedes Villalba. The latter has spoken well multiple times in Holyrood and seems very active locally. Hopefully a few of these types can find themselves closer to the real power of the party in the years to come.

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I actually really like Anas Sarwar as well but whilst the English red wall is the way it is, anything that the Scottish Labour Unionist party does just feels pointless.

England needs to change massively before I would actively consider voting for any unionist party, and I expect hell to freeze over before that happens.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/08/malnu...bottom.twitter

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

I think it was more to do that they felt Labour had abandoned them to chase the liberal elite vote.

They had a choice of Corbyn or Johnson, it's no surprise who they chose!

I asked the other day if I was the only Conservative voter on here, I wonder if there are any Labour votes left?!!

Seems to me like a lot of posters on here would be traditional Labour voters but they have all moved to support the SNP instead.

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I would love to vote Labour again. I did from age 18 and foolishly once for Blair and resumed when Corbyn was Leader. I'll never vote for Starmer or his New Labour like again. They actively worked against Labour and are more blue than red imo. I'm also one of those who value principles more than power and have no issue with the Labour Party being true to their history even if it means they don't get elected as often. I have no idea what the Party stand for at the moment, they would sell their Granny so they can get the retainer the Tory MPs are getting for using their influence would be my guess.

It is a massive surprise to me that anyone could choose Johnson over Corbyn. One is so obviously a born liar who is completely uninterested in anything that doesn't benefit him and he combines that with a real nasty streak. The other is a hugely principled individuals who actually really struggles to lie. That was used against him with Brexit and while Corbyn might not have been the best leader he was by far the best man.

I will continue to vote for who I think has my best interest at heart and at the moment that is none of them. It feels like the choice between death by legal injection or a thousand cuts when you vote now. I'll always go to the ballot box but none are worthy of making decisions on my and other workers behalf.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I felt quite bad about not intending to vote in the last Scottish election so I went along and simply spoiled my ballot.

I still took part in the democratic process but made my point albeit in a way that is ultimately meaningless and futile. Come the next election if there aren't significant shifts from any of the 2 major parties I would seriously consider voting for then I will do the same again. I might have voted SSP on the list this year but they didn't stand candidates. I'm beyond voting for the least bad option now. They say you get more right wing as you get older but I find myself thinking increasingly radical thoughts. I'm fed up hearing about consensus and watching parties walk a tight rope trying to offer sops to people across the political spectrum.

I quite like the rhetoric and action from a few of the younger and new Labour MSPs, Pam Duncan-Glancy and particularly Mercedes Villalba. The latter has spoken well multiple times in Holyrood and seems very active locally. Hopefully a few of these types can find themselves closer to the real power of the party in the years to come.

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What did you have against the Greens, out of interest?

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I'm also one of those who value principles more than power and have no issue with the Labour Party being true to their history even if it means they don't get elected as often.

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And even if it meant they didn't get elected at all?

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I would love to vote Labour again. I did from age 18 and foolishly once for Blair and resumed when Corbyn was Leader. I'll never vote for Starmer or his New Labour like again. They actively worked against Labour and are more blue than red imo. I'm also one of those who value principles more than power and have no issue with the Labour Party being true to their history even if it means they don't get elected as often. I have no idea what the Party stand for at the moment, they would sell their Granny so they can get the retainer the Tory MPs are getting for using their influence would be my guess.

It is a massive surprise to me that anyone could choose Johnson over Corbyn. One is so obviously a born liar who is completely uninterested in anything that doesn't benefit him and he combines that with a real nasty streak. The other is a hugely principled individuals who actually really struggles to lie. That was used against him with Brexit and while Corbyn might not have been the best leader he was by far the best man.

I will continue to vote for who I think has my best interest at heart and at the moment that is none of them. It feels like the choice between death by legal injection or a thousand cuts when you vote now. I'll always go to the ballot box but none are worthy of making decisions on my and other workers behalf.

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When I said similar it was suggested I was voting out of self-interest.

Like yourself, I think this is how most people vote.I don't think it's selfish at all, more like common sense.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

What did you have against the Greens, out of interest?

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I don't think they have done anything like enough to challenge the SNP Govt on issues such as land reform, council tax reform (that being a long standing Green priority, nominally at any rate) and they have failed to secure an end date to North Sea oil drilling which should have been their ultimate priority and post election simply had to be a deal breaker before any power sharing was agreed.

More than anything though it would have been tacit approval of the incumbent government who they have propped up. That govt and Labour were the main targets when I decided not to vote.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

There are genuine, decent reason reasons for voting conservative (or certainly for a centre right party). I just don't think that anyone who votes for them votes for those reasons, so as long as folk are content that they're either the party who leave you with the most in your own pocket, they're the most competent when it comes to the economy, whether it's because they growl the loudest at the dinghies of brown people in the English Channel, because their leader is the one you'd most like to have a pint with, because they might actually "get Brexit done" (whatever that means and whatever the cost), because they are the best for a bit of good old Union Jack flag ****ging or because they are the toughest on imaginary woke situations that actually have very little bearing on the lives of the vast majority of people - we're going to be stuck with them and their habits for a while.

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You've just listed some reasons you think people voted Conservative. You could be right.

Maybe they didn't though. Maybe they voted for genuine, decent reasons?

Is voting for the party you trust most with the economy a trite reason, or a decent, genuine one?

It seems like this thread is painting all Conservatives with the same brush. There will be voters of many races, religions or levels of wealth that vote for all parties, Tories included.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I don't think they have done anything like enough to challenge the SNP Govt on issues such as land reform, council tax reform (that being a long standing Green priority, nominally at any rate) and they have failed to secure an end date to North Sea oil drilling which should have been their ultimate priority and post election simply had to be a deal breaker before any power sharing was agreed.

More than anything though it would have been tacit approval of the incumbent government who they have propped up. That govt and Labour were the main targets when I decided not to vote.

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10 or 20 years ago would you have voted Labour? If so, why not now?

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

10 or 20 years ago would you have voted Labour? If so, why not now?

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I've voted Labour 3 times since I've been eligible to vote.

When Cameron defeated Brown and the 2 elections under Corbyn.

I'm not really sure why I voted for Brown it was so long ago. I voted for Corbyn because Labour at it's heart simply has to be a socialist party and Corbyn is, for all his faults, a socialist.

I won't vote for them now because they are a confused centre ground mess who are guilty of exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. Trying to be all things to all people, treading a nothing middle ground and really appealing to no one.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I've voted Labour 3 times since I've been eligible to vote.

When Cameron defeated Brown and the 2 elections under Corbyn.

I'm not really sure why I voted for Brown it was so long ago. I voted for Corbyn because Labour at it's heart simply has to be a socialist party and Corbyn is, for all his faults, a socialist.

I won't vote for them now because they are a confused centre ground mess who are guilty of exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. Trying to be all things to all people, treading a nothing middle ground and really appealing to no one.

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Well I definitely agree with your view on current Labour party but I think if they move to the left you’ll be stuck with Conservatives for a long time to come.

My own view is that the UK as a whole is more centre-right. I think the way elections have gone since the 70s show this to be the case and there’s just no appetite for a socialist government here.

This is all getting pretty confusing given the Conservative Party's promise on "Levelling Up" are pure socialism.

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Originally Posted by Kato

This is all getting pretty confusing given the Conservative Party's promise to "Levelling Up" are pure socialism.

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Lucky they are not actually doing it then or that could be embarrassing for them.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Lucky they are not actually doing it then or that could be embarrassing for them.


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Yup.

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Originally Posted by Kato

This is all getting pretty confusing given the Conservative Party's promise on "Levelling Up" are pure socialism.

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It's okay though because its one of those on the side of a bus slogans, doesn't actually have to happen or require any accountability when it never appears.

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Sir Geoffrey Cox has been "remote working" as a MP whilst in the Caribbean.

Apparently he's hardly set foot in the House of Commons recently. How can anyone represent their local constituents from the Caribbean? Does anyone in England care anymore what the tories get up to to? It doesn't seem like it.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Sir Geoffrey Cox has been "remote working" as a MP whilst in the Caribbean.

Apparently he's hardly set foot in the House of Commons recently. How can anyone represent their local constituents from the Caribbean? Does anyone in England care anymore what the tories get up to to? It doesn't seem like it.

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He gets away with it because he sounds very, very posh.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Well I definitely agree with your view on current Labour party but I think if they move to the left you’ll be stuck with Conservatives for a long time to come.

My own view is that the UK as a whole is more centre-right. I think the way elections have gone since the 70s show this to be the case and there’s just no appetite for a socialist government here.

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By the "UK" you mean England?

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

You've just listed some reasons you think people voted Conservative. You could be right.

Maybe they didn't though. Maybe they voted for genuine, decent reasons?

Is voting for the party you trust most with the economy a trite reason, or a decent, genuine one?

It seems like this thread is painting all Conservatives with the same brush. There will be voters of many races, religions or levels of wealth that vote for all parties, Tories included.

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Could be either, really.

I think that's why Labour lose elections FWIW - people don't trust them on the economy. Well, not enough English people, who would rather the money be left in their own pockets for them to decide what to do with it that for it to be taken and be spent for them.

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Originally Posted by Steven79

By the "UK" you mean England?

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Definitely England more so, not entirely sure about Scotland or the rest of the UK in fairness.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Could be either, really.

I think that's why Labour lose elections FWIW - people don't trust them on the economy. Well, not enough English people, who would rather the money be left in their own pockets for them to decide what to do with it that for it to be taken and be spent for them.

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I think I also agree with that.

Not sure if you’ve framed that as a negative but it’s a fair enough, boiled down description of left or right I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Could be either, really.

I think that's why Labour lose elections FWIW - people don't trust them on the economy. Well, not enough English people, who would rather the money be left in their own pockets for them to decide what to do with it that for it to be taken and be spent for them.

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The economy was hardly discussed before the last election. Labour's policies were overlooked by the Anti-Semitism furore and Tory policies were mostly about memtioning Brexit a lot.

The financial back-ground for building 40 new hospitals, levelling up and an oven ready brexit barely got a mention. The two major aspects which stick in the mind was Corbyn with a Russian hat and the Russian backed Torys toying with constitutional matters.

Cast your mind back to Blair and he switched the red-tops to backing him by promising to carry on Thatcher/Majors economic pattern. It was the most vital aspect which got him elected.

The old left-right conversation about fiscal matters barely exists these days.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Well, not enough English people, who would rather the money be left in their own pockets for them to decide what to do with it that for it to be taken and be spent for them.

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...and ironically the exact opposite is happening..


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Originally Posted by Kato

This is all getting pretty confusing given the Conservative Party's promise on "Levelling Up" are pure socialism.

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Love to see them trying to level Ben nevis, skafell and snowdon 😉

is it safe for that lying coward Johnson to return to parliament yet ?

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

is it safe for that lying coward Johnson to return to parliament yet ?

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No. He's run away up to Glasgow (earlier than scheduled).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...over-25000-job


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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

is it safe for that lying coward Johnson to return to parliament yet ?

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Nearly said there must be a few hospitals he could wander around unmasked but with his tie tucked inside his shirt for safety reasons.

Then I remembered he's probably on the run from hospital workers as well now.

Only really does popular sound bites before moving onto the next potential U turn.

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