Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by ScottB

Petrie and the club have stuck to the integrity line throughout, they voted No to the Newco.

What are the clubs thoughts on all this? The line 'it's up to other bodies to decide their fate' is clearly nonsense now, if the SPL Board is involved, then Hibs are involved as part of the SPL.

If Hibs are against these 'negotiations' and haven't been part of this, then they better come out and say so pronto. Silence will do us no favours, certainly if the Board think we will just accept this corrupt attempt to try and appear 'all about the integrity' while working franticly behind the scenes to save Sevco.

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Exactly! Where are all these people who spoke of integrity? Their silence over the threats, bribery and blackmail of the SFL clubs seems tae suggest they're no everything they're cracking themselves up tae be.

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Originally Posted by The Green Goblin

It totally seemed like a heavily sarcastic comment and a massive dig. Apologies if it wasn't. A smiley always helps avoid misunderstandings :wink: A "?" is just what I already expect to see at the end of a question and wasn't really a clue.

One thing that many overseas fans find themselves doing, is religiously staying up to date on everything that goes on back home. I have read every post on this thread, for example (sad but true) and read widely in the papers and online etc. Distance only intensifies your need to stay on top of what's going on.

The issue of not going back to watch SPL football is a serious and emotive one facing many Scottish football fans, if Sevco are let off with a div 1 sanction. My answer to this is really what I replied to Falcon above. I wrote "My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks."

A quick (and friendly) comment on the "committment" point you made; there are many ways in which overseas supporters support the club: subscribing to Hibs TV International, arranging your trips back home to allow for the biggest number of trips to see games at ER, buying merchandise online, getting up at 3am to listen to/watch games online, encouraging others to support the club, getting together to watch games and so on.

Many overseas fans, myself included, travelled many thousands of miles and spent a lot of money to come back for the Cup Final in May - less a glory hunt and more of a "need to be there in our lifetime" response to the deep-rooted support of the club that only often intensifies when you are far from home. In most cases, and it certainly was in mine, people couldn't really afford to do it, but found a way. Fans far away often show a very serious committment to the club, even though they can't buy a season ticket - and some folks even do that, even though they can't go! Overseas fans keep their finger on the pulse and do everything they can to play their part. :aok:

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None of which makes me look like an idiot. I admire overseas fans support of the club, I really do, but the real doggedness is with folks who have stuck with it and kept this ****ty side uppermost in their list of priority. And most of them do most of the things you detail in your response, as well as taking endless amounts of flak from those sparryheids that you will doubtless avoid in Sao Paolo (or wherever).
Glad that you keep your eye in from another corner of the globe. 20,000 erses on those seats at ER are an immediate priority however and people straining for excuses never to return leaves an awfy sickly taste in the mouth.

If and when "I Can't Believe It's Not Rangers" get voted into the SFL, will any future 'OF' game be a
Donkey Derby?

More from Thomo

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...thorities/2211

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My sources are senior and widely respected figures in Scottish League Football and rarely have I heard men so angry about an invitation to a meeting.

They describe it in many ways, some of which I know my lawyer will not allow me to pass on. So let’s just choose one adjective:

“Despicable.”

Their reaction of course, all flows from that second paragraph of the invitation to next Friday’s meeting where the SFL says:

“That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.”

Read the full invitation here: Rangers – the vote that never was?

My sources have spoken exclusively to Channel 4 News and say that many in the league are not simply enraged that their vote is being taken away but that the SFA and SPL are now also directly involved and directly involved in effectively gagging the League clubs by stifling their votes.

My sources decline to be identified at this stage but one said:

“They’ve just gone ahead to steamroller us. It’s farcical. They’ve cooked it all up amongst themselves.”

Speaking on condition of anonymity he says there is now very little trust held by many senior League people in either the SFA or the SPL both as organisations in this matter and in terms of the conduct of their respective Chief Executives Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster.

He was one of a number this afternoon accusing Scottish Football of simply tearing up its own rulebook and suggested that either FIFA or UEFA might well be interested in taking a look at what is going on.

I have not been able to contact UEFA, the SFA or the SFL on this matter, it being a weekend.This will further enrage fans across the country who have long suspected a stitch-up. Recent threats and hyperbole from Scottish football’s authorities about “Armageddon” if “Rangers” go to D3 won’t have helped.

Still less the SFA’s Stewart Regan contemplating “social unrest” if “Rangers” disappear. Leaving aside various police forces who dealt with actual social unrest when Rangers FC fans did appear, his wild speculation looked desperate, not least given its hypothetical context.

Like today’s extraordinary letter of intent, it speaks of the utter desperation Scottish football’s governing bodies have to find some way, somehow, somewhere to go on milking the so-called “Rangers” cash-cow.

At least now this latest tactic is unmasked, leaked as they surely knew it would be.

Many will conclude that fans, chairmen and players have five days now to counteract the latest gambit-of-despair from Hampden Park.

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Originally Posted by snooky

If and when "I Can't Believe It's Not Rangers" get voted into the SFL, will any future 'OF' game be a
Donkey Derby?

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Great pun, Snooky. Made me laugh. :greengrin

Went to have a look at RangersMedia to see what they are saying about this (I know I shouldn't bother!)

First thread has a title of 'A ****in hate Roman Catholics'!! :confused:


I thought this kind of thing would have the police kicking in your door at 6 in the morning??


Or do they just go after people growing a bit weed..............

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Originally Posted by grunt

More from Thomo

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...thorities/2211

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Absolutely incredible stuff. What options do they now have?

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Originally Posted by steakbake

Absolutely incredible stuff. What options do they now have?

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Vote No to Newco in SFL completely....
but cue the SPL2 formation I'd imagine

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Originally Posted by steakbake

Absolutely incredible stuff. What options do they now have?

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They can vote No to the second motion.

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Originally Posted by Baba O'riley

Vote No to Newco in SFL completely....
but cue the SPL2 formation I'd imagine

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Hopefully they'll no get enough clubs tae join that tae make a league.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They can vote No to the second motion.

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But does that not mean its bounced back for a fix?

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Originally Posted by steakbake

But does that not mean its bounced back for a fix?

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That has to be clarified, and I'm sure many will ask before the vote.

However, by that time Sevco will be an an Associate Member of the SFL (ie without a vote), and the rules as they are at the moment don't allow for anybody to be accepted above D3.

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Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

Hopefully they'll no get enough clubs tae join that tae make a league.

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:aok: we can but hope...

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

That has to be clarified, and I'm sure many will ask before the vote.

However, by that time Sevco will be an an Associate Member of the SFL (ie without a vote), and the rules as they are at the moment don't allow for anybody to be accepted above D3.

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We've seen what the rules have meant to those in charge throughout this process.

I'll be interested to see what happens but the shenanigans that has gone on is embarrassing.

Strange how Keevins, Traynor, Young, Spiers, King and Co never reveal these exclusives and leaked documents :greengrin

Given they will all have the same sources and no doubt some execs in the SFA, SPL etc feeding them the same info, why is it always left to a journalist, who with no agenda or affection for any Scottish side, gets to the truth :devil:

ooops.....I've answered my own question :greengrin

I read an article about Third Lanark recently, strangely enough I think formed the same year as Rangers. When they went into liquidation there were mirky stories of cheating, payments to players which were untoward, directors being at the lash and 'on the take'..........they disappeared into the amateur leagues of Glasgow eventually I think. I would support such a move next week :agree:

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Originally Posted by The Falcon

If I felt that strongly I wouldnt go either. But I dont believe they will end up in the first division. It will be the third and even then they are getting off lightly.

As far as I am aware they (rangers) have so far got nothing they wanted.

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But, apart from the SEVCO "board", it's not Rangers who want to go to SFL1, it's Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir who want them there - and probably the majority of SPL club chairman. Most of the real Huns want to go to SFL3.

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Originally Posted by BOVRIL

[/B]Sorry to state the obvious mate ... you cant resuscitate something that is dead.

As for the rest of that paragraph I presume what you mean is we wont get the new fresh start you think we need.

Things which appear be on the table now as a result of what has happened:

A fair voting system in the SPL which will prevent any two clubs, or even one club, ever being able to dictate to the others again.

A much more equitable sharing out of the money coming into the game, from TV or elsewhere.

A future change to the league systems, which may well lead to a bigger SPL and play offs for promotion and relegation.

A much needed change of mindset in the game which will lead every club to the realisation that putting all of your eggs into one basket is the stupidest way to run a business you can get, and hopefully will lead to a lot of clubs deciding that the way forward is to rip themselves away from the old firm teat.

At the start of last season all of that stuff was a pipe dream ... the fact that its taken this mess to bring it about is unfortunate, but to pass up the opportunities it has presented would just be a bloody waste of a golden chance.

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Agree that these changes would be a good start. However, we don't need to have the Huns parachuted into SFL1 to get them. If they do go straight into SFL1 then by this time next year the Huns will be back in the SPL stronger and their fans will be more vile than ever because of what has happened. However, I will not have stuck around to watch.

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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

The bit in bold has yet to be determined, certainly as far as Petrie or Hibs' culpability is concerned, but you hold your principles dear.

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The document released to the SFL had a sporting integrity v finance reference yet a sporting integrity issue has yet to be determined?
Catch up! The sporting integrity issue relates to moves made out-with Hibs but in the league they play.

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Originally Posted by alexedwards

jim leishman, brechin chairman, godon mc dougall (livi), ballantine, longmuir, dumbarton director, alloa director.
Been advised by div 2 director clubs will make decision.

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Cheers. :aok:

Correct. 75% of the Hun season ticket holders who responded to an email poll by the Fighting Fund said they wanted the Newco to go into SFL Div 3. For once I can't criticise that. It is of course the people you list who want to keep their corrupt little empires intact who don't care about sporting integrity, only ea$y buck$.

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

But, apart from the SEVCO "board", it's not Rangers who want to go to SFL1, it's Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir who want them there - and probably the majority of SPL club chairman. Most of the real Huns want to go to SFL3.

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Originally Posted by archiecoby

Went to have a look at RangersMedia to see what they are saying about this (I know I shouldn't bother!)

First thread has a title of 'A ****in hate Roman Catholics'!! :confused:


I thought this kind of thing would have the police kicking in your door at 6 in the morning??


Or do they just go after people growing a bit weed..............

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Good to see that their site moderators have taken swift action. :rolleyes:

I honestly never knew that an IQ score could fall into the minus zone............ that was until I met a Rangers fan.

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Originally Posted by The Green Goblin

It totally seemed like a heavily sarcastic comment and a massive dig. A smiley always helps avoid misunderstandings :wink: A "?" is just what I already expect to see at the end of a question and wasn't really a clue.

One thing that many overseas fans find themselves doing, is religiously staying up to date on everything that goes on back home. Distance only intensifies your need to stay on top of what's going on.

The issue of not going back to watch SPL football is a serious and emotive one facing many Scottish football fans, if Sevco are let off with a div 1 sanction. My answer to this is really what I replied to Falcon above. I wrote "My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks."

A quick comment on the "committment" point you made; there are many ways in which overseas supporters support the club: subscribing to Hibs TV International, arranging your trips back home to allow for the biggest number of trips to see games at ER, buying merchandise online, getting up at 3am to listen to/watch games online, encouraging others to support the club, getting together to watch games and so on.

Many overseas fans, myself included, travelled many thousands of miles and spent a lot of money to come back for the Cup Final in May - less a glory hunt and more of a "need to be there in our lifetime" response to the deep-rooted support of the club that only often intensifies when you are far from home. In most cases, and it certainly was in mine, people couldn't really afford to do it, but found a way. Fans far away often show a very serious committment to the club, even though they can't buy a season ticket - and some folks even do that, even though they can't go! Overseas fans keep their finger on the pulse and do everything they can to play their part. :aok:

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No more to be said.:top marks

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Originally Posted by wee_hibee

Good to see that their site moderators have taken swift action. :rolleyes:

I honestly never knew that an IQ score could fall into the minus zone............ that was until I met a Rangers fan.

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Take it they haven't? The poor souls are probably upset about the rain pissing on their parade today.

I have to say that I do feel for the various chairmen at this point in time. There is a big question that has to be considered when weighing up sporting integrity, and this is just approaching it from a different angle - one which the chairmen and influential people involved have no choice but to consider.

That question is why should their clubs suffer from Rangers' demise?

Unfortunately, the hyperbole and propaganda from the SPL, with what appear to be skewed projections of the financial impact of having no Rangers in the top tier (let alone the First Division), has detracted from what is something that's worth some discussion and probably a deal of pragmatism when deciding what to do next.

IMHO, the decision to refuse entry into the SPL was the correct one. I also think that Sevco's application for entry to the SFL should be considered on exactly the same basis as any other applicants and not considered favourably or otherwise just because of who they are.

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

I am not wholly adverse to Sevco coming in at First Division level, but being heavily sanctioned in the process. IMHO, those sanctions should be severe enough to ensure that there can be no promotion for Sevco Rangers for at least a season, regardless of their league finish this coming season. For me, there are wider benefits in that approach that are for the greater good.

To liken it to something, I didn't want the Government to use taxpayers' money to bail out the banks. No other businesses were getting that sort of help, so why should some of the (previously) most profitable and biggest companies get it? Well, the answer is that without these big banks, the impact and damage caused would have been catastrophic to the economy and our daily lives. An unpalatable but necessary decision was made to bail the banks out, a decision made for the greater good.

My preference is to see Sevco in the Third Division, if anywhere. However, if they do end up in the First then I think I'm at ease with it enough to understand that while it's not what really should be done, all things being equal, it's something that is being done not for Rangers' benefit, but for the benefit of all the other clubs potentially impacted.

Can someone tell me why the 'neutral' !! BBC continue to place any Rangers news in the SPL section? That team has been liquidated and no longer exist

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Originally Posted by alexedwards

The document released to the SFL had a sporting integrity v finance reference yet a sporting integrity issue has yet to be determined?
Catch up! The sporting integrity issue relates to moves made out-with Hibs but in the league they play.

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Making Hibs culpable, how exactly? That was my point. Hibs and 10 other clubs (currently) play in this league. Do you want a ****ing game to watch next season or don't you? Do you want a club to support or don't you? I've caught up fine thanks.

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Originally Posted by Cyprus Hibby

No more to be said.:top marks

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I'll back that up. I left Scotland for England in 1963, and in 1974 moved to Canada.
In the early 70's I saw a lot of the Drybrugh Cup matches. But from 1974 till 2006 I saw a total of 2 matches
Work gets me back to Glasgow on a regular basis, and I've seen the Hibees half a dozen times. But at home I have 10 Hibs tops, a golf shirt, 5 mugs, 4 scarves, A Hibs and North American Hibs Supporters Club stickers on my car, a Hibs 2007 Cup winners mini-flag on my garage window, every book about hibs you can buy, and Paddy Fenlon on Easter Rd is the wallpaper on my work computer.
Even my office manager knows that when I'm asked to attend head office, I check the footie fixtures before I book my flights

I would give my right arm to see the team more often, but it doesn't make me less supportive of the team because I average one game a year-my wife thinks I'm mad BTW:agree:

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

:aok: Amen to this.

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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

:aok: Amen to this.

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Such is business life every day of the week. Businesses who have previously been well run suffer hardship and insolvency due to the inadequacies of others. Unfair, but unavoidable.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Such is business life every day of the week. Businesses who have previously been well run suffer hardship and insolvency due to the inadequacies of others. Unfair, but unavoidable.

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But it would appear avoidable in this case.